please dont rip this site

There is one way that works to get off the list.  DO NOT post to the
list.  This might get you off, but is the worst way to do it; A post to
the list goes to all subscribers, is VERY slow and gets everyone angry
with you.  If Jory & Mark miss seeing it (and they may not read all
of every post, and may occasionally take a day off), you don't get off
the list.

The best, fastest way is to post to the PICList "Command Input Port":


from the address at which you are subscribed, containing nothing but

unsubscribe PICList

in the first line of the message.  This is automatically executed and is
the fastest method.  The message must contain the exact words
"unsubscribe PICList", no other spelling works.  You'll get a
confirmation e-mail, with directions on how to confirm (Basically: just
reply with the word "ok" in the body), and you'll be off the list.

If you are trying to unsubscribe from an address different from the
one you subscribed from, probably best to send an e-mail to
PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU (E-Mail to that address is copied to
all of the list admins), and clearly ask to have your OLD address
unsubscribed.  I cc my response to your old & new addresses (As a
courtesy), and if I'm not here Jory can catch you, this way.

If you have difficulties, or do not understand what to do, send an
e-mail message to PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, and one of us will
try to help you.  Do tell us you want help with the PICList as we both
are on / run more than one list!


This list is for the specific purpose of providing a forum about the
use, learning about, safety with, and enjoyment of MicroChip PICs. Other
support "Glue" chips are acceptable off-topic subjects, to some extent.
Questions about Sensors, power supplies, safely running your PIC project
on a car or airplane's electrical system, are also quite acceptable
off-topic subjects;  See the Beginners' FAQ questions later for markings
for OT questions.

Commercial posts, flaming, spamming, virus warnings, etc. do not
belong in this mailing list, and posting same could result in our
removing you from the list.  (Post to the Admins, let US warn the list,
that way we just see one warning on the list, not 1200!)  Humor happens
here, and is welcome so long as it doesn't result in bodily harm from
too many list readers falling out of their chairs, and so long as it's
kept in reasonable bounds.  Humor isn't the purpose of the list, but the
good laugh provided (relevant to PICs especially) is very welcome on
occasion!  (At the same time, too much of a good thing, is too much.)
Use your judgement and good sense and experience as a guide.

Posting messages to the list is restricted to subscribers, who are
defined as anyone posting with a logon name and address identical to one
in the list of subscribers.  You cannot post to the list either from a
different address or if you are unsubscribed.

[For more information about this mailing list, post to:


with the text


in the first line of your message.  Also read, Tjaart's handy web page.
Also, see the Archives at]

This Mini-FAQ is posted by Mark Willis monthly (early in the month),
to help Jory out.  Suggested updates or changes, Post to:


Mark will post this with this EXACT same title [unless revised, then
the revision date will change] to help keep the list uncluttered with
"unsubscribe" requests, and will e-mail it to anyone on request.

Newbie FAQ topics and questions:

"RA4 doesn't behave right.  It will pull down, but not up, even though I
set it as an output pin & am writing a '1' to it."

RA4 is an open drain (same as an open collector basically) output pin.
You need to either (a) use a different port pin, or (b) put a pull-up
resistor from that pin to Vdd (+5V typically), to make the pin pull up
as default.

"When I set a port pin as an input, then ground & unground it with a
switch, it sometimes works & other times doesn't work."

You have a floating input;  You want to use a pull-up or a pull-down
resistor, if you are driving this pin with an open drain or a switch to
Vcc or Ground, directly. {mention weak pull-ups?}  10k is a good value

"How do I describe my code that's not working well, to the list?"

It helps a lot if you post an URL (if the code's large), or the
offending 15-20 lines or so, to the list (Some people pay for their
connect time by the minute, so keep it as short as you can;  OTOH, some
people read the list offline, so they cannot help you if you have short
code snippets & don't include them, use judgement here.)  It also helps
if your code uses standard include files, and you describe the schematic
somewhat (i.e. if your code is toggling ra4, and we don't know that you
want it to toggle rb4, we'll wonder what problem exactly you're having
<G>)  It also helps to have a clear idea what the problem you perceive,
IS, what you observe, and what you expect / want to heppen!  Posting a
short message asking for help, with a good descriptive Subject line like
"Need a mentor, 16F84 Remote Tachometer for R/C boat", then giving the
person who volunteers all the info you have, can be more effective than
asking a really good question, but using a completely non-descriptive
Subject line like "problem" or "Help me!".  Think a little on those
subject lines, try to distill your whole post into that line, and you'll
get faster answers.

"My Windowed part works one way usually and sometimes another, now I
burned an OTP part and it behaves in the undesired of the two above."

You need to cover the window on /JW parts, then they'll not have memory
contents affected by ambient light;  I use a small piece of foil,
covered by electrical tape, this is simple to clean, for erasing, and is
very opaque to even IR light (Most electrical tape's transparent to IR
light somewhat.)  If you're doing repeated burns & erase cycles, can use
a small piece of thick cardboard or something like that, you mainly want
to block visible light (when indoors, which is where most of us work.)

"I want to post a request for information that no-one else on the list
may want to hear about;  What do I do?"

Sidestep for a second;
We use the subject line to mark posts for what their content is;  It's
good to post a question like "What's the difference between a 16F84 and
a 16F84A", with something like "Differences between 16F84 and F84A?" as
a subject line.  Many people won't read posts if they don't know what
it's about.

Now back to your question;
We use the flag [OT] to designate that a particular post is Off Topic
for the PicList.  This doesn't always mean that no-one on the list wants
to see your post;  It means that you know you're posting not strictly
about PICs, PIC Programming, or other goodies attached to PICs, but you
still need the information.  So, there are sort of 4 categories:

{Still working on this, folks, so let us polish this up & we'll see
where it goes.}

#1:  Directly related to PICs.  Programming questions, misbehavior
questions, code optimization, Post to the list.

#2:  Stuff attached to a PIC project;  Hooking up to the points on your
older car to make an electronic ignition module, for example.  Right
now, this is marked either with or without [OT], we're probably
migrating to a [Tech] marking for this, to clarify things.  Time will

#2a:  Electronics Related stuff;  Atmel, Scenix, Motorola, etc.
processors, coding, projects, etc.;

#3:  Stuff that's sort of off-topic for the PICList, but still technical
in nature;  Some of this would be good for posting to the list directly,
with an [OT] marking (for example, the recent Train threads, which have
wandered the gamut from Train braking by PIC-controlled rocket motors,
to kids' educational toys, some of these threads are quite hypothetical
& non-PIC related;  If you wander too far afield, but think most other
PICList members will enjoy what you have to post, consider posting your
reply under an [OT], changed subject line;  Minimize this somewhat, as
otherwise one thread breaks into 157 threads, though.

#3a:  Reminisces about the bad old days in High School when you blew up
$12 worth of electronics project by applying too high a voltage;
Probably post as [OT] to the list, some of those have been pretty
hilarious <G>

#3a:  Questions that're PICList related but don't need discussion on the
list, for example a tutorial about drilling 0.010" holes through 0.020"
wire (I want to know, but not everyone will), probably best if these are
posted to the list with Reply-To set to your personal e-mail address,
and you ask people to post to you personally;  Also good if you post

#4:  Political opinions, Religions opinions, SPAM, personal flames,
fighting, and so on;  We've been perhaps too lenient, and I suspect
we'll start throwing people off the list in future, for these.  If you
want to say something like this, you can use your signature line to
state your opinion, provided it's not flaming someone;  If someone posts
completely off topic on this, please post at them off the list, not ON
the list, as (even though we've been pretty mellow) we are likely to use
automated processes in future to end threads that're destructive.  More
later on this.

One thing I've been thinking about on headers is to suggest we try to
put [OT] at the END of subject lines, when people add it to a subject
line of a post they think's OT for the list;

The reason I suggest this is that my browser sorts subjects
alphabetically, not by intent of the sender <G>;  Say we have 3 posts,
Subject:  ABC
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT]
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT] [way, way OT]
Subject:  Re: [OT] ABC

{The 3rd post is how I'd let filterers filter, and acknowledge that
something is way OT for us humans, BTW.}  The last post alpha sorts WAY
far away above the other 3 posts, separating it and making the
conversation diverge worse than it already will, this being the PICList

Something to consider for the FAQs; this might make tracking the
subjects easier for most people, and filtering should still work well
enough.  (Set your filter to "Contains" instead of "Begins with" <G>)
It's a convenience for others, they can figure out what posts are about
what subject{s} <G>

Also, for the same "convenience of others" reasons, PLEASE, let's not
see any header lines like these:
Subject:  SV: ABC [OT]  {Default list language is English, folks <G>}
Subject:  FWD: Re: ABC [OT] (FWD: is unnecessary)
Subject:  Re: [OT] Re: ABC (please: [OT] after the Re: to avoid second Re:)
Subject:  Re: Re: Re: SV: ABC [OT]  {ONE 'Re:' suffices!}
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT}  {Ack!} (please: its [OT] not [OT})
Subject:  Re: [OT, Way OT] ABC (can't be reliably filtered by email program)

"Why all these different subject headers?"

Some people on the PICList want JUST PIC programming and code
optimization information - they're too busy, or uninterested, in the
other categories.

Some people want it all, want to talk about their R/C plane that crashed
because they forgot to re-attach the antenna, about what processor(s)
are best for their project, and so on.

Many are somewhere in the middle.  If we all use these conventions,
we'll be able to pick & choose what posts interest us most, and read
those first, as well as to ignore or read last, those we don't care so
much about.  Some people don't have a lot of time during the week, and
would like sleep after a 14 hour day & 3 hours of commuting, they want
to only spend 15 minutes or so reading the PICList, not 3 hours <G>

{I'm tired & need to work more on ALL of this - Comments?  Volunteers to
take the Mini-FAQ over as I get HEAT in this place, and get more
computers running?}


See also:

file: /Techref/piclist/faq.htm, 12KB, , updated: 2011/4/15 08:16, local time: 2018/6/19 03:31,

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