piclist 2000\03\13\173744a >
picon face BY : jamesnewtonTakeThisOuT@geocities.com


The PICList is a collection of people interested in the Microchip PIC
processor who have requested that email sent to the PICList email address be
forwarded to them.

There are about 2000 people subscribed to the PICList (as of  20000313) so
sending a post to the PICList results in a lot of people spending the time
required to read your message or question. They would all appreciate it if
you would check the PIC FAQ at
and search the Archives at
before posting a question.

Many of our members enjoy reading posts on topics other than the PIC but
that may be interesting to PICers (engineering, ideas, technical jokes,
etc...) but many others do not wish to spend the time required to read these
off-topic posts. They would appreciate it if you would put the text [OT] at
the end of the subject line of your post so that they know its not about
PICs. If you are replying to a post that is not about PICs and notice that
it is not marked [OT], please edit the subject line to add that flag.

Q : How do I send messages to the list
A : Step by step:

First, you check the PIC FAQ.
and search the Archives.
to get an instant answer without wasting anyone's time.

Second, you must be subscribed to the list to post to the list and you must
send from the email address you subscribed from.
RemoveMELISTSERVspamBeGonespamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=sub piclist

Third you must compose a message to
that will elicit help.

If its not about PICs directly, that's ok, post it anyway but put [OT] at
the end of the subject line. The subject should be as complete a description
of the problem as is possible in 60 characters or so. Compress and distill.

The body should
- be in plain text, not HTML. See:
- be a detailed description of the problem in as few words as possible.
- If you have a web page, post a verbose description of the problem to it
and put the full URL of that page in your post (include the ) along
with a summary of the problem.
- include what you are trying to do (overall), what you expected to have
happen at this point, what you are seeing, and how you are seeing it (what
test equipment, etc...)
- Include specific part numbers, code snippets (not the full source,
please), and signal descriptions.

Finally, read your message over again, check the subject line and press

You will not see your message echoed on the PIClist, and it may take more
than a day before anyone responds since most people only read their PICList
mail once a day and they are all over the world. If no one responds after a
week, read the rest of this page,  especially the list admin Mini-FAQ,
general list guidelines,  rethink your post and add a "Nobody responded to
my last post, what am I doing wrong?" to the end and send it again.

Q : How do I send commands (like to subscribe/unsubscribe)?
A : To send a command, send it in the body of an email to the list server
address :
For instance, to get off the list, you send the command :
Sending SIGNOFF PICLIST in the body of a post to the PICLIST@... address
will result in about 1800 people being notified that you want to leave the
PICList and the emails will keep right on coming.

Q : Where must the command be in my email?
A : In the message body. The subject line is ignored.

Q : What commands are available ?
A : List of ListServer commands

Q: Is the list moderated, how do I contact the moderators,  and what are the
A: The list is administered, not moderated by Mark Willis, James Newton ,
Mike Werner and Jory Bell (who setup and controls the list). Posting
messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at
PICList-RequestSTOPspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all
admins who then read your post & try to help. They have now published
guidelines (Including Marks new Mini-FAQ) at this site. Admin's guide the
list by asking that people mark off topic messages with [OT] in the subject
line (not OT, <OT>, {OT] or off topic) and PICLIST related but not PIC
related messages with [Admin] so that people who do not wish to read these
postings can filter them out via their email programs. Non-PIC related
threads are common and the volume of messages can be several hundred per
week. Several respected, valuable, and otherwise caring people have, in the
past, unsubscribed due to a temporary peak in the volume of fluff and bad
attitudes. When bickering and non-technical posts reach a fever pitch,
James, Mark and even Jory have been known to step in and put a stop to it by
warning people and throwing them off the list. If you want to be accepted
and get the most help, please read some general list guidelines. Text only
posts (no HTML email) are preferred, subject not directly related to the PIC
should be marked with [OT] at the end of the subject line, and messages of
hatred or intolerance will get you kicked off the list, period. Please
forward suggestion or complaints about the list to the list admins at
PICList-RequestKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU rather than to all the list members. Product
information about your PIC related product is fine, but blatant spam is not.
Advertise your company, product or site in a one or two line addition to
your signature at the bottom of your posts.

Q. Is the PICList a good place to ask for / post cracks for PIC related
A. Remember that the PICList is a public forum. Asking for a crack will
typically get you nothing but advice to pay for what you get. In the past,
cracks posted to the list have evoked mixed responses ranging from offlist
threats, to onlist thanks and have started some flame threads about hacking
and cracking and software licenses and prices in general which always end up
being a waste of bandwidth. List members have been known to forward cracking
related threads to the maker of the product being cracked with full header
information (including your email address, and who your ISP is).

We can't stop people from posting things that are not legal. We do not
approve of software piracy and will remove from the list individuals who
show a flagrant disregard for the rights (and efforts) of others. We will
forcibly kill flame threads that have no bearing on PICs and are not
appropriate to the list.

Jory says: "...[we can't prevent] PICList people [from pirating] software,
since that is everyone's own choice, ... i don't want to police such things,
but please keep in mind the nature of your communication, and the nature of
a public list and decide what is appropriate."

Lets keep cracking off the PICList, there are plenty of other lists for
that, and as always, please mark anything not directly related to PIC
engineering with an [OT] at the end of the subject line.

Q: Can I advertise my product on the PICList?
A: Yes and no. Read on:

:> Great! Responding to a question or a request for help with an
advertisement for your product which is a solution to the original post is
no problem. That type of advertising is "a good thing" as it A) solves the
posters problem B) encourages PIC related businesses C) Keeps people who do
PICs for a living involved in the list. D) sometimes it triggers a "hey, I
can do that for a lot less" response that leads to a healthy competition for
the advertisers.
Don, Tony, Myke and others have been called on the carpet for advertising
before and list members have resoundingly stood up for them.

Before you buy anything, don't be afraid to ask others on the list for
confirmation that a product recommended by the mfg. as a solution to your
problem is a good choice. List members will not hesitate to speak up <GRIN>
and the manufacturers are expected to be thick skinned.

:) Good: Adding a line or two to your signature (and the "PIC/PICList FAQ:
http://www.piclist.com " line doesn't count! <GRIN>) about what you do, buy,
sell or believe in is also no problem. The only possible exceptions are
political and/or religious flame starters and spiteful messages.

:| Maybe: Posting News or information about your product (unsolicited) to
the list. Well... ok... *IF* its a product that people on the PICList will
really use. The only trick is that in the eyes of the poster, the fact that
his new hydroponic plant management system has a PIC somewhere in it
qualifies it for the PICList even though he hasn't published a schematic,
code or even any description of the design process and its never been
mentioned on the list before. On the other hand, if the product actually A)
does something to a PIC or for a PIC (like a programmer or a simulator
etc...) B) Uses a PIC and has engineering details published or C) was
designed with help from the list (e.g. we all heard about the problems and
solutions involved in the making of it), we don't see any problem.

:{ Listen: The final judgment of what is appropriate is left in the hands of
the PICList administrators, if *they* feel a post is inappropriate, they
WILL take action with at least a warning, followed by removal and or barring
the offender from the list, at their option, on this as in any

Q: Is the list archived?
A: Yes. Please use it:

Since December 1998 up to realtime with a full search engine at
(NOTE: this site has been password protected to prevent mineing by SPAMers
web robots for email addresses but the username is piclist and the password
is piclist)

Since March 1996 to realtime with a time range but subject line only search
engine at
The server also archives the list - as of 4 January 2000 the server contains
archives back to April 1998. To get a list of the archives send the command
"index piclist" to STOPspamlistservKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu. (Thanks Mike!)

Q: Are these archives searchable?
A: Yes, they are. The two webpages have search engines on the page. The
direct server interface also provides search capability by email. To use the
email interface, compose a new message addressed to STOPspamlistservspam_OUTspam.....mitvma.mit.edu.
In the body of the message, create your search parameters like this:

search keyword in listname
where keyword is the word or words (separated by spaces) that you wish to
search for and listname would be PICList.

You can further limit the search to a specific time frame by adding the

from date1
to begin the search at date1. You can also specify an ending date by adding

to date2
The full command would then be:

search keyword in listname from date1 to date2
Two other limiters that can be used are

where subject contains text

where sender contains text
These limiters contain the search to messages that have certain subject
lines or were sent by specific individuals, respectively.

[Thanks to Mike Werner]

Q: Why don't I see my own posts to the PICLIST?
A: This is the default setting on the list server. To changes this so that a
copy of your post is sent back to you from the list, send the command:

Q: Can I get the list in "digest" format?
A: Yes. To change to digest mode, just send the command SET PICList DIGest
to @spam@LISTSERVspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU. To get back to individual emails, send the

Q: Can I get only the posts that interest me in digest form?
Q: On my slow internet connection, it takes forever to download all the
email and I'm only interested in a few anyway. How can I keep using the
A: Using the Index mode of the PIC List. [thanks to Mike Werner]

First of all, you must tell the server that you want the index mode for your
subscription. To do this, send a message to KILLspamLISTSERV@spam@spam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the
command "set piclist index" (without the quotes, of course) as the sole
content in the body of the message. From then on you will receive a daily
index of postings to the list, looking something like this:

Index  Date  Size Poster and subject
-----  ----  ---- ------------------
043066 10/22   18 From:    Mike Werner <RemoveMEreznaeousspamEARTHLINK.NET>
                 Subject: Re: [OT] Bullet Proof Circuit... was: Survey...
                          is an
Except that there would be a whole lot more entries than that. The headers
are fairly self-explanatory, but as a quick once over they are: Index is a
server assigned sequential number for reference purposes, Date is the date
the message was received by the server, Size is the number of lines in the
message not counting headers, and then Poster and Subject is just that.

To retrieve the full message, all you need do is hit reply, quote the
original message (most mailers will do that either automatically or provide
a button to do so), and then edit out the messages that you are not
interested in. Once you have done that, send the message. In a few minutes
you will receive one digest-style message containing just the messages you

Q: I'm going on vacation / don't want to be involved in the PICList for a
while. Should I unsubscribe and then re-subscribe when I get back?
A: You can, but this will reset any configuration related to your account.
To preserve your settings, send the NOMAIL command: SET PICList NOMAIL to
LISTSERVspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU as you leave and then send the MAIL command: SET
PICList MAIL to spam_OUTLISTSERV.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU when you return. Also, consider
setting digest mode (above) to continue getting PICList posts in a more
compact form.

Q: I've been on the PICList for a while and suddenly I'm not getting any of
the 50 odd messages per day that normally come in:
A: Sometimes, on the Internet (being the way it is), mail doesn't get
through for a while - it does get through eventually. Situations happen like
your mail being handed off to a machine which then gets disconnected due to
some problem, be it "backhoe fade" or a hardware crash, things usually get
fixed up in a couple days. Usually the traffic all shows up in one HUGE
clump, some hours or days later on, whenever that server gets fixed or
re-booted. It's annoying to us admins, as we have to tell the difference
between not being on the list, being on the list but set to NoMail, or the
above, or other problems that can happen. Sometimes, someone's ISP falls
onto the RBL (Realtime Black hole List - an anti-SPAM list, this happened to
MY ISP recently), or the PICList gets mistakenly ID'ed as a "SPAM" source by
someone's ISP due to all the traffic, and all PICList traffic is filtered
into the "circular binary file." Rarely, you get a fast response back, but
the mail isn't getting through, despite the options the list server's set to
looking like it should - When THAT happens, I suggest people unsub &
re-subscribe, usually that fixes things. Sometimes just setting to digest &
then regular mail a few seconds later can fix it.

The usual test I suggest is to send a "Query PICList" message to the
"PICList List Server Command Input Port" at KILLspamLISTSERVKILLspamspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, if you
don't get a response back from that address in 5 minutes or less, mail's
dropping through an event horizon someplace between your ISP and the list
server, or filtering is happening, or someone's on the RBL & is being
filtered out. This is a good time to e-mail the list admins at
PICList-RequestKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU and let us look into it.

Q: My email address is changing. How can I forward my PICList emails?
A: If you're moving to a new ISP, you can send in the command "CHange
PICList newemailaddress@newISP", to LISTSERVKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU to move your
subscription. If you are no longer able to send email from your old ISP this
will not work, so you will need to contact an administrator at

Q: I want to post to the PICList from my home email account and from work.
When I try to post from an account from which I am not subscribed to the
PICList I get a "rejected posting" message and if I subscribe from both
email accounts, I end up with two copies of every post. What can I do?
A: Subscribe from both accounts then send the NOMAIL command from the email
address where you do not wish to receive (but do wish to send) posts.

Q: I'm having (some other) problem with the PICList
A: [There are] Multiple ways to handle any type of List problems [says Mark]

Send a "Query PICList" message, to the PICList List Server 'Command Input
port' at <@spam@LISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, and forward the resulting e-mail you
receive in return, to an Admin. with what's wrong; This gives me more info.
Should get that response quickly, so if no response in a half hour, let me
know that you tried. If this happens, it's a router problem. If you send
such a message & get a delivery error, though, I want to know as I need to
contact MIT or something (unlikely though.)

Unsubscribe from the PICList and subscribe again. Yeah, I know, it's a pain!
But sometimes the only way, seemingly, to fix some things (Methinks L-Soft
has a bug to stomp somewhere in the Options setting/clearing code - for
their credit, they seem to have most of them pretty well squished!) You'll
have to then set your options again, which is a pain. I think (haven't
tested yet) that you can put the options all into one e-mail, too, i.e.
Subscribe on the first line, Set PICList Mail on the second, and even Set
PICList Repro on the third {Now the default}, Set PICList NoACK on the
fourth {Again the default} if you wanted. (I don't mind people asking for
help, either, especially when they cannot unsub an old address due to an ISP
change or ISP name change, it takes me 3 seconds to unsub people, so just
make sure you ask me to unsub the CORRECT ADDRESS, lest I unsub the wrong

To get at old posts, either jump to
and read there, or, you can send the command "Index PICList" to the PICList
List Server 'Command Input port' at <LISTSERV@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, which will
get an index of old PICList messages for you. I don't think the list server
keeps all messages ever posted, but it does keep some. You can then order
individual messages by using "GETPOST PicList Ref#1 Ref#2 ..." etc., where
Ref#1 is a reference number in the Index you just received.
Q: How can I sort email from the PICList to separate it from my other email?
A: Most email clients will allow you to setup a rule for moving PICList
email into another folder. It always comes from spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU. If
your email program doesn't support that or if you want to keep it all
together but still easily see what emails are from the PICList, you can turn
on a subject sort tag by sending the command SET PICLIST SUBJECTHDR to
LISTSERVspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU. This will insert the tag [PICLIST] in the subject
line of every post and remove it from your replies to the list for other
members who have turned this feature off (the default setting). You can
disable it by sending SET PICLIST NOSUBJECTHDR to @spam@LISTSERVspamBeGonespam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Q: How is the PICList like a PIC?
A: The PICList list server has 3 "I/O Ports".

Posting messages to the "PICList Mail Distribution port", at
PICListspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all 1800+
members of the PICList (Those who don't have NoMail set), who then read your
post and make snide comments if you posted to the wrong address.
Posting messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at
.....PICList-RequestspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all
admins of the PICList {Jory, Mark, & James, right now}, who then read your
post & try to help.
Posting messages to the "PICList Command Input Port", at
.....LISTSERVspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be treated as a command by
the listserve software, THIS and ONLY THIS is the address to send
Unsubscribe requests, Set NoMail requests, and so forth. The listserve
software ONLY listens here for commands, you can send them to those other
"ports" all you want, and all you'll get is a copy back from the machine,
telling you you've made a mistake.
Same as on a PIC chip, using the wrong port for the wrong purpose may result
in unintended consequences, like annoyed list neighbors or flustrated

See also:

PICList projects

PICList links
MicroChip Technologies
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/pic/ Ian Harries Documents & Information
http://techref.massmind.org/microchip/piclinks.htm David Tait's Links to
Internet PIC Resources
http://digiserve.com/takdesign FAQ?
http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/ Archives
http://www.myke.com Myke Predko's Microcontroller Reference Page PICMicro
http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html - Tjaart van der Walts home page.
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/pic/ Eric Smith personal page of consultant
http://www.dattalo.com Tweaking a PIC - Scott Dattalo software for PICs
(sin, sqrt, log, bcd, parity, debounce, pwm, count, )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sampowel/ Sam Powels PIC Archive
http://www.sq-1.com Square One Electronics PIC'n Up the Pace, PIC'n
Techniques, Serial PIC'n books
http://www.rentron.com Rentron Projects Tutorial
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/posit/posit.html - Tiny
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Cable/7772/ - Basic Stamp VM for '84
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/ links
http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/wky/pic.htm links
http://business.vsnl.com/chiptech/ Chip Technologies - kits, book, sample
http://www.bytecraft.com/ Byte Craft C compiler, Also: A Touch Sensitive
Circuit, Software A/D and D/A Converters, Non-Linear Data Transformations
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7/posc.html PIC based O-Scope
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/kaarvik/kaarvik.htm Ken's Gameboy and PIC
Projects Page
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/sb/index.htm SmartBow.
Software is a way to easilly create an HTML-document in IE 4.0 on Win 95/98
with a set of Virtual Controls (LEDs, buttons, displays etc.) connected to
you code running on Microchip., Scenix. or any other microprocessos. It may
be used to monitor and control your software running on a microprocessor and
to create almost run-time debug environment. It registers as a service and
communicates between the serial port and a set of Java Applets that
implement the visual controls on the HTML page.
http://www.circuitcellar.com/pastissues/articles/richey110/text.htm Using a
PIC for speech.
http://websites.ntl.com/~matthew.rowe/micros/ PIC and AVR beginners page
http://www.markworld.com/microtools.html excellent math and servos
http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/lab/6584 Pic links and a nice
switch (circuit breaker) tester project.
http://www.midcoast.com.au/~paulb/faq_indx.html Dr. Paul B. Webster's little
known "gottchas"

the piclist.com domain had a problem from about 20000201 to 20000212.
piclist.org was registered as a backup and points to the same place. They
may be used interchangeably.

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
EraseMEjamesnewtonRemoveMEspamKILLspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

<007b01bf8d3c$6d2ec8c0$0100a8c0@a.efplus.com> 8bit

See also: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
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