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PICList Thread
'What is wrong with the Stamp II's ?'
1995\02\05@164537 by Lance Walley

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On February 4th, George Risch wrote:

>Thanks for keeping us posted on the situation with the Stamp II 's. Just
>from a curiousity point of view, what has been the major problems in
>producing the software for these packages? Is it that you are trying to use
>another PIC?


George,

There haven't been any problems, per se, but the creator of the Stamp is
grossly unable to estimate project completion times (just like the rest of
us, including myself when I work on projects).

Indeed, we are using a different PIC, which does pose problems not seen on
the original Stamp.  We're also trying to add new functions.


------------------------  Lance Walley  ---------------------------
                         Parallax, Inc.


'What's wrong with this macro?'
1997\03\06@105409 by mbonner
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Hi,

I think I'm missing something very basic.  I'm using ByteCraft's MPC and
the target controller is the PIC16C74A.  This macro is supposed to take
2 unsigned 8-bit chars (h: high, l: low), concatenate them, and return
the unsigned 16 bit result.  Instead, it's masking (zeroing) the high
byte.

#define WORD(h,l)   (((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))

Thanks, Matt

1997\03\06@115142 by Ed VanderPloeg

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At 08:00 AM 3/6/97 PST, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I think I'm missing something very basic.  I'm using ByteCraft's MPC and
>the target controller is the PIC16C74A.  This macro is supposed to take
>2 unsigned 8-bit chars (h: high, l: low), concatenate them, and return
>the unsigned 16 bit result.  Instead, it's masking (zeroing) the high
>byte.
>
>#define WORD(h,l)   (((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))
>
>Thanks, Matt
>
I don't use the MPC compiler, but have you tried:
- extra brackets around the first cast & the "(h)", like this:
#define WORD(h,l)   ((((unsigned long)(h)) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))

- using a different cast like (uint16) or (word), to see if the compiler is
only allowing 8 bits for the "long".

- casting the whole macro to ensure a 16 bit output:
#define WORD(h,l)   (unsigned long)(((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | \
                                    (unsigned char)(l))

IMHO, it seems there should be a much more efficient way to create a word
out of two bytes than this.  I'm curious as heck what the compiler gives
you for that macro.  Maybe it actually sets up a loop and shifts eight
times (gross!).  Trouble is, I can't think of any alternatives right now.
Anyone got ideas?

-Ed V.

1997\03\06@122300 by mbonner

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Ed VanderPloeg wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Ed,
As you can see, the compiler stores the high byte, clears the storage
location for the low byte, and ORs the low byte into the cleared
location.  The only inefficiency that I can see is the ORing into a
known-clear location (instead of a MOV).

BCF    STATUS,RP0    Sample = WORD(Phi, Plo);
MOVF   39,W
BSF    STATUS,RP0
MOVWF  46
CLRF   45
BCF    STATUS,RP0
MOVF   3A,W
BSF    STATUS,RP0
IORWF  45

BTW, the extra brackets didn't change the assembled code.  I still have
to try it in my target system.

Matt

1997\03\06@123058 by Bill Durocher

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part 0 428 bytes
union word_byte_u
{
   unsigned char       low_byte;   /* the order of low_byte and high_byte
declaration */
   unsigned char       high_byte;  /* would be compiler specific */
   unsigned long       the_word;
} u_convert;

Then when you wanted to convert two bytes to one word in your code:

u_convert.low_byte = low_val;
u_convert.high_byte = high_val;
answer = u_convert.the_word;

Classic use of union.....

-Bill







'New To PIC What am I doing wrong?'
1997\05\29@095553 by Glen Benson
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Hi,

 I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do, But
I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I need
to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC via
lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
(out lpt,1 statement) then
I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift the
value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in the
qbasic code
to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
you see my blunder, can you show me? :)


' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
' be written better? It cant get worse.



Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
       input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input

START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out

loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
     if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
       B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
       goto loop


Thanks
Glen Benson

1997\05\29@115917 by Eric Martens

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This may be the cause of the problem ( i had a same kind of problem on a 68000)

A program written in assembler will work quicker then the same program written
in basic
or another language. The overhead of the program is less or none if you write in
assembler. When you write in a langauge other then assembler the program listing
(compiled program) tends to be longer, thus resulting in a longer runtime on the
proc.

Greetings Eric Martens

***************************
*  Eric Martens           *
*  spam_OUTemarTakeThisOuTspamknoware.nl  *
**************************


----------
| From: Glen Benson <.....bensonKILLspamspam@spam@BENSONASSOC.COM>
| To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
| Subject: New To PIC What am I doing wrong?
| Date: donderdag 29 mei 1997 14:08
|
| Hi,
|
|   I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
| basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do, But
| I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I need
| to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC via
| lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
| (out lpt,1 statement) then
| I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift the
| value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in the
| qbasic code
| to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
| you see my blunder, can you show me? :)
|
|
| ' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
| ' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
| ' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
| ' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
| ' be written better? It cant get worse.
|
|
|
| Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
| Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
| Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
|         input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input
|
| START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out
|
| loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
|       if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
|       goto loop
|
| getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
|         DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
|         B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
|         goto loop
|
|
| Thanks
| Glen Benson

1997\05\30@091811 by Paul Kolesnikoff

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Date:    Thu, 29 May 1997 07:08:52 EST
From:    Glen Benson <.....bensonKILLspamspam.....BENSONASSOC.COM>
Subject: New To PIC What am I doing wrong?

Hi,

 I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do,
But
I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I
need
to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC
via
lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
(out lpt,1 statement) then
I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift
the
value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in
the
qbasic code
to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
you see my blunder, can you show me? :)


' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
' be written better? It cant get worse.



Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
       input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input

START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out

loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
     if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
       B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
       goto loop


Thanks
Glen Benson

------------------------------
Glen,

Try changing your code to this.

loop:
     if pin7=1 then getbit      ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1                  ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0                ' get the bit send it out to pin 10
on lpt
       B0=B0/2                    ' shift the value in B0 over
       if pin7=0 then loop       ' wait for Pin 7 to go low before
looking for new bit

Essentially you are implementing a synchronous data transfer, with the
PC providing the clock. It looks like your original code would sense the
first clock pulse and then shift out a bunch of bits before the second
clock pulse. The extra IF should keep you in sync. If you want to speed
it up a bit more, send byte wide or nibble wide data for every PIN 7
clock pulse. You have up to 9 input pins on a standard parallel port. So
the limit is the number of pins available on your PIC.

Let me know how it goes,
Paul Kolesnikoff
EraseMEpkolesnispam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTball.com


'[OT] Wrong dates'
1997\11\22@063953 by johnb
picon face
Some postings appear to be very old:

M. Walters recent posting (re Pyro Temp Measurement) is dated 1995.
Pablo Mochkovsky's is dated 1994.
Two from M. Ghormley are dated 1996.

There have been very many like this.

Is it simply that their Clock-Calendars are set wrongly? Is it Netscape?
I have it set to list everything in date order, and I only spot these
postings by chance.

John Blackburn,
London UK.


'Sorry I sent wrong one try this'
1997\12\22@171440 by andre
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-- >
>                        Vcc
>   SW3                   |
>      __I__              R1
>                  +      |                           |
>  +---o   o---o----D3----o--------o----------o-------| B0
>  |           |                   |          |       |
>  R3          |             SW1 | o    SW2 | o       |
>  |           |                -|         -|         |
> Gnd          |                 | o        | o       |
>              |                   |          |       |
>              |         Vcc       |+         |       |
>              |          |        D1         D2      |
>              |          R2       |          |+      |
>              |   +      |        |          |       |
>              +----D4----o--------o----------o-------| B1
>                                                     |




this schematic doesn't make any sence to me.
b0 and b1 are pulled high. when you push sw1 still bo and b1 is high.
same thing with sw2.the only thing will work is sw3.


here this is what I think.        +5
                                 |
                             sw1 R   |
               gnd___________/___|___|B0
                sw3              |   |
       gnd_______/___D+__________|   |
                   |_D+__________    |
                                 |   |
                            sw2  |   |
               gnd___________/___|___|B1
                                 |   |
                                 R   |
                                 |   |
                                 +5  |

Andre  Abelian










==========================================
= http://www.compufire.com               =
= andrespamspam_OUTcompufire.com             =
= @spam@mcu-engineeringKILLspamspamcompufire.com   =
= Andre Abelian: Engine Electronics, Inc.=
= Tel 909-589-5485  Fax 909-598-5695     =
==========================================


'Code Problem... What is wrong?'
1998\01\19@140715 by Radboud Verberne
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Hello EveryOne,

I've written a piece of code... But unfortualy it doen not work right...
The 16c84 communicates with 3 CD4094 IC's. (Serial to parrallel). The error
MUST be in the hef4094 routine, but i can't finft the error... Who can find
the problem?

(-----Cut----)
SendOne
       bsf DATA
       call wait
       bsf CLOCK
       call wait
       bcf DATA
       nop
       bcf CLOCK
       return

SendZero
       bcf CLOCK
       call wait
       bsf CLOCK
       call wait
       bcf CLOCK
       return

hef4094
       movwf txbyte
       movlw 0x07
       movwf bitcount
Sendbit
       btfss txbyte, bitcount  ; Skip next line if bit is set.
       call SendZero           ; Sends a 0
       call SendOne            ; Sends a 1
       decfsz bitcount,1       ; Decrement bitcount, SKip if Zero
       goto Sendbit
      return

(----Cut-----)

main
       movlw 0xFF
       call hef4094
       movlw 0x00
       call hef4094
       movlw 0x00
       call hef4094
       goto main
end

This piece of code should make 8 of the 24 bits high... But when I look at
the outputs of the CD4094 it isn't...
He problably sends one Bit to much or something...
Greetz,
       Radboud Verberne.


ICQ: 918640 (I Seek You)

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     PE1RUH@PI8SHB.#NBO.NLD.EU (144.925Mhz)

Yes! I've succeeded my Radio Examenation! My call is PE1RUH!
I've rebuilt a Teletron T813 and i'm most of the time QRV on
145.2125 or 145.7000 (Relais Eindhoven).

S-Mail: Eerste Vijverstraat 6
       5258 HR Berlicum, The Netherlands
Phone:  +31-73-503-4733

"Er is hier niks te doen, maar begin er maar alvast mee..."

1998\01\19@154603 by Michael S. Hagberg

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every time you send a '1' bit it works find, but every time you send a '0'
bit it will then send a '1' bit when it returns from the call.

solution 1. change call's to goto's and return to goto label just after the
goto sendone line.

solution 2. use straightline coding and get rid of the call's and goto's

michael


>Sendbit
>        btfss txbyte, bitcount  ; Skip next line if bit is set.
>        call SendZero           ; Sends a 0
>        call SendOne            ; Sends a 1

1998\01\19@174413 by Greg Maki

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At 07:32 PM 1/19/98 +0100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Radbound,

I believe your biggest problem is trying to use a variable to select the
bit number. BTFSS needs a constant for the bit number so what it does is
use the address (probably truncated to 3 bits) of the variable <bitcount>.
Also, when you call SendZero, it returns and calls SendOne immediately.

You might try:

Sendbit
               rrf     txbyte,f        ;rotate LSB into carry bit
               btfss   STATUS,C        ;is it a 0
                goto   Zero            ;yes, send a zero bit
               call    SendOne ;no, send a one bit
               goto    Nextbit ;go check bit counter
Zero            call    SendZero        ;go send a zero bit
Nextbit decfsz  bitcount,f      are we done?
                goto   Sendbit
               return

I haven't tested this code or optimized it but it should work. Hope this
helps!

Greg Maki

1998\01\19@182505 by TONY NIXON 54964

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>hef4094
>        movwf txbyte
>        movlw 0x07
>        movwf bitcount
>Sendbit
>        btfss txbyte, bitcount  ; Skip next line if bit is set.
>        call SendZero           ; Sends a 0
>        call SendOne            ; Sends a 1
>        decfsz bitcount,1       ; Decrement bitcount, SKip if Zero
>        goto Sendbit
>       return

You will never transmit bit 0 using this routine, and it will always
transmit an extra 1 bit if you try to send a 0 bit. Also any new data
that you send will not appear at the outputs of the 4094 until the
next bit send is executed. ie CLOCK = high.

Try this.....

hef4094
     movwf txbyte
     movlw 0x08
     movwf bitcount
Sendbit
     rlf txbyte
     btfss status,carry
     goto send0
     call SendOne
     goto OneLess
Send0
     call SendZero
OneLess
     decfsz bitcount
     goto Sendbit
     return

Also try this for the SendOne/Zero routine.....

     ; Clock bit is normally HIGH, so that previous data is already
     ; at the output gates.

SendZero
     bcf Port(x),DATA    ; send 0 bit
     goto ClkOut

SendOne
     bsf Port(x),DATA    ; send 1 bit
ClkOut
     call wait
     bcf Port(x),CLOCK   ;  strobe data to latches
     call wait
     bsf Port(x),CLOCK    ; send data to output pins
     ; the next instruction depends on how many instructions
     ; are executed before this routine is called again
     ; (may not be needed if clock speed is low)
     call wait
     return


I know you have already tried it, but it's fairly easy to trap
errors like these by using MPSIM or MBLAB simulator and single step
through the code. Another thing that is sometimes hard, but very necessary,
is to make sure the code is compatable with any external devices, or
you may suffer many frustrated hours of fruitless debugging.
This means a close examination of the device data sheet.

Tony

For the beginner....
PicNPoke Multimedia 16F84 Simulator Assembler, and Tutorial.
Now with PicNPlay circuit simulator.
Plus animated Address Mode Tutor.

http://www.dontronics.com/picnpoke.html

1998\01\20@054947 by paulb

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Radboud Verberne wrote:

> SendOne
>         bsf DATA
>         call wait
>         bsf CLOCK
>         call wait
>         bcf DATA
>         nop
>         bcf CLOCK
>         return

> SendZero
>         bcf CLOCK
>         call wait
>         bsf CLOCK
>         call wait
>         bcf CLOCK
>         return

 Presumably DATA and CLOCK are defined as a register,bit combination?
Non-critical: Why are these routines assymetric?  What is that NOP doing
there?  Why do you need "wait" calls anyway (is the CPU too fast)?  Is
DATA initialised as clear in case SendZero is called first?

> hef4094
>         movwf txbyte
>         movlw 0x07
>         movwf bitcount
> Sendbit
>         btfss txbyte, bitcount  ; Skip next line if bit is set.

 How did bitcount get into this line?  You can't use a variable as a
bit index into another variable (register)!

>         call SendZero           ; Sends a 0
>         call SendOne            ; Sends a 1

 Hey!  Since when do you want every zero to be succeeded by a one?

{Quote hidden}

 If you leave it looping all the time, the output states will be
changing so fast you'll never see what they are!  (You forgot the strobe
function just before the loop.)

 How about:

SendByte
       movwf txbyte
       movlw 8
       movwf bitcount
clockit
       movlw ck0dt1            ; default data high
       rlf   txbyte            ; MSB first convention, alter if needed
       skcs                    ; macro
       movlw ck0dt0            ; C bit zero: alter data to low
       movwf serio             ; write DATA, CLOCK low
       iorlw ck1dt0            ; add in CLOCK bit
       movwf serio             ; write DATA, CLOCK high
       andlw ck0dt1            ; clear CLOCK bit
       movwf serio             ; write DATA, CLOCK low
       decfsz bitcount         ; loop 8 times
       return

main
       movlw ck0dt0            ; initialise clock & data values
       movwf serio             ; write DATA, CLOCK low
       movlw 0xFF
       call SendByte
       movlw 0x00
       call SendByte
       movlw 0x00
       call SendByte
       movlw ck0dt0+strobe     ; Strobe
       movwf serio             ; the data
       goto main

 Is that all OK?  By setting the I/O register with a pure write each
time, you can safely ignore read-modify-write problems.  The reload of
W between every I/O write should be adequate time for the CMOS to settle
but if you do need a delay routine, you put the "movwf serio" at the
beginning of it and make sure it doesn't alter W.  The following doesn't
alter W but uses up to three stack locations:

dely16  call dely8
dely8   call dely4
dely4   return

 Cheers,
       Paul B.


'[OT] Something wrong with the listserv?'
1998\04\02@170401 by Sean Breheny
face picon face
Hello all,

I have been receiving only about 4 messages a day from the list since last
Sunday, and today and yesterday I received no messages from the list. Am I
the only one experiencing these problems? I can mail the listserv directly
and ask for help files/etc. and I get them, but I get very little list
mail. Please email me if you can see this.

Thanks,

Sean


+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Fight injustice, please look at
http://homepages.enterprise.net/toolan/joanandrews/

Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7TakeThisOuTspamcornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

'R: [OT] Something wrong with the listserv?'
1998\04\02@183906 by Dr. Leonardo De Palo

flavicon
face
Hi
I can see now your mwssage from roma. Italy.
By

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Sean Breheny <spamBeGoneshb7spamBeGonespamCORNELL.EDU>
A: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: venerdl 3 aprile 1998 0.04
Oggetto: [OT] Something wrong with the listserv?


{Quote hidden}

'[OT] Something wrong with the listserv?'
1998\04\02@185403 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

flavicon
face
Hi Sean,

Same here, but I thought it was only me as I understand there was an
internet circuit fault at our local telco office which affected any
inbound or outbound email.  In the past 30 minutes, I received about
80 messages which I guess had been sitting in the queue.

-Randie
EraseMErohtsjispamglenayre.com



{Quote hidden}

1998\04\02@190107 by John Griessen

flavicon
face
I get your message, and several dozen others today.

JG


John Griessen                       512 451-8207 FAX 451-0753
CIBOLO Metal Works            http://www.aus-etc.com/~cibolo

1998\04\03@051234 by Steve Lawther

flavicon
face
    I've also been having problems.  Listserv unsubscribed me twice in 2
    weeks
   
    Seems there were two instances of the same problem on Demon's mail
    servers that meant incoming mail was refused due to bad authorisation
    (error 550).
   
    The problems were across both of the last two weekends from Friday
    afternoon to late Monday.
   
    Don't know if other people had this problem
   
               Steve Lawther


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject:      Re: [OT] Something wrong with the listserv?
Author:  PC:RemoveMErohtsjiEraseMEspamEraseMEGLENVAN.GLENAYRE.COM at INTERNET-HUSKY
Date:    03/04/98 08:11


Hi Sean,
   
Same here, but I thought it was only me as I understand there was an
internet circuit fault at our local telco office which affected any
inbound or outbound email.  In the past 30 minutes, I received about
80 messages which I guess had been sitting in the queue.
   
-Randie
RemoveMErohtsjispam_OUTspamKILLspamglenayre.com
   
   
   
{Quote hidden}

1998\04\03@075833 by Mark Lezama

flavicon
face
part 0 1189 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" (decoded 7bit)

Sean Breheny escribis:

{Quote hidden}

Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Tarjeta de Mark  Lezama
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"

Attachment converted: wonderland:vcard.vcf 3 (TEXT/CSOm) (0001645D)


'WHAT'S WRONG? - MPASM WITH 17C756'
1998\07\01@141807 by WF AUTOMACAO
flavicon
face
Hi, :(

       I don't believe what's happening with a program that i try to execute a
program in 2
external EEPROM connected in a PIC17C756 (MICROPROCESSOR MODE)

       The first works well! I wrote 0 and 1 on PORTB, i measure in osciloscope
a square wave!


                   00425
                   00426
                   00427         LIST P=17C756
                   00428
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00429 ; Program Code
                   00430
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00431
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00432 ;   Set the reset vector here.  If you are using a PIC
16C5X device,
use:
                   00433 ;               ORG     &lt;last program memory locati
on&gt;
                   00434 ;   Otherwise, use:
                   00435 ;               ORG     0
                   00436
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00437
0000                00438                 ORG     0
0000 C001           00439                 GOTO    Start
                   00440
0001                00441 Start
0001 B800           00442                  MOVLB  BANK0 ;select bank1
0002 B000           00443                  MOVLW  0x00
0003 0111           00444                  MOVWF  DDRB  ; portb as output
                   00445
0004                00446 Loop
                   00447
0004 B000           00448                 MOVLW  0x00
0005 0112           00449                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0006 B0FF           00450                 MOVLW  0xFF
0007 0112           00451                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0008 C004           00452                 goto Loop    ; stay in LOOP
                   00453
                   00454
                   00455                 END

But, when i do a small change on Software, nothing happens, the osciloscope show
s anything!


                   00437
0000                00438                 ORG     0
0000 C001           00439                 GOTO    Start
                   00440
0001                00441 Start
0001 B800           00442                  MOVLB  BANK0 ;select bank1
0002 B000           00443                  MOVLW  0x00
0003 0111           00444                  MOVWF  DDRB  ; portb as output
                   00445
0004                00446 Loop
0004 B706           00447                  lcall Sub     ; call a FLIP-FLOP subr
outine
0005 C004           00448                  goto Loop    ; stay in LOOP
0006                00449 Sub
                   00450
0006 B000           00451                 MOVLW  0x00
0007 0112           00452                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0008 B0FF           00453                 MOVLW  0xFF
0009 0112           00454                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
000A 0002           00455                 RETURN
                   00456
                   00457                 END

What am i doing wrong? Wait for other BIG question! (Now in MPLAB17-C)

My mpab is 01.50, but i think that's not the problem! (BUG)

Miguel Wisintainer

1998\07\01@163501 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:14:41 -0700 WF AUTOMACAO <EraseMEwfspamspamspamBeGoneAMBIENTE.COM.BR>
writes:
>Hi, :(
>
>        I don't believe what's happening with a program that i try to
>execute a program in 2
>external EEPROM connected in a PIC17C756 (MICROPROCESSOR MODE)

What is your PIC clock rate?  It is quite possible that the PIC is
running too fast for the EEPROMs to supply the proper program
instructions to it.

The timing diagrams in the back of the PIC data say that the time between
when the PIC outputs a valid address and the memory must provide the
correct data is 3 xtal cycles - 30 ns.  At 25 MHz, that is only 90 ns.
The delay through the address latch must also be accounted for, maybe 20
ns.  So the memory must have an access time of 70 ns or less.

Parallel EEPROMs are rather slow to read compared to RAM or EPROM.  Newer
Microchip 28C64s are spec'd at 150 ns.  Other ones may be 200 or even 450
ns.  None of these chips will work with the PIC going 25 MHz, or even 16
MHz.  Not allowing enough access time can cause the chips to read wrong,
though often consistent, data.  This would explain one program working
and another not.

For a test, slow the PIC way down and see if the programs operate
properly.  With a 4 MHz crystal, the memories have about 700 ns to
respond, which should be plenty.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1998\07\01@165717 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
Mike Keitz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Myke, i don't know if you understood what i did!

THe first sample works well!

But the second, where i did include a Subroutine for change the State of
PORTB, doesn't work!

I only included a Subroutine, nothing more! :(

Miguel

1998\07\01@193749 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:52:48 -0700 WF AUTOMACAO <wfSTOPspamspamspam_OUTAMBIENTE.COM.BR>
writes:

>THe first sample works well!
>
>But the second, where i did include a Subroutine for change the State
>of
>PORTB, doesn't work!

If you exceed the speed ratings of the memory chips, they may read one
program OK but fail on another.  Not every bit in a memory chip works at
the same speed.  The manufacturer's rating is just a guaranteed maximum
for the worst bit.  If you happen to have a program only in  fast bits,
it will work OK, but expanding the program into a slow section of the
chip won't.  Bits can also be such that zeros will read at a high speed,
but it takes longer to read a one (or vice versa).  Changing the program
so such a bit that was zero is now one will make it fail.  So it is
something to check.  If you are running the PIC faster than 4 MHz it is
quite possible to have a speed related problem.


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1998\07\02@104253 by AA9LA

flavicon
face
Miguel,

The LCALL instruction loads the high order 8 bits of the called address from
PCLATH.

You need to be sure it is set to High Sub.  It appears that PCLATH
coincidentally is
set to zero so this should be working as expected (if you are executing this
code
exactly).

The CALL instruction would be more appropriate.

..EUGENE..  (AE2F - "Always Easy To Find")

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:14:41 -0700
From:    WF AUTOMACAO <spamBeGonewfSTOPspamspamEraseMEAMBIENTE.COM.BR>
Subject: WHAT'S WRONG? - MPASM WITH 17C756

Hi, :(

       I don't believe what's happening with a program that i try to
execute a program in 2
external EEPROM connected in a PIC17C756 (MICROPROCESSOR MODE)

       The first works well! I wrote 0 and 1 on PORTB, i measure in
osciloscope a square wave!


                   00425
                   00426
                   00427         LIST P=17C756
                   00428
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00429 ; Program Code
                   00430
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00431
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00432 ;   Set the reset vector here.  If you are using a
PIC16C5X device,
use:
                   00433 ;               ORG     &lt;last program memory
location&gt;
                   00434 ;   Otherwise, use:
                   00435 ;               ORG     0
                   00436
;--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   00437
0000                00438                 ORG     0
0000 C001           00439                 GOTO    Start
                   00440
0001                00441 Start
0001 B800           00442                  MOVLB  BANK0 ;select bank1
0002 B000           00443                  MOVLW  0x00
0003 0111           00444                  MOVWF  DDRB  ; portb as output
                   00445
0004                00446 Loop
                   00447
0004 B000           00448                 MOVLW  0x00
0005 0112           00449                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0006 B0FF           00450                 MOVLW  0xFF
0007 0112           00451                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0008 C004           00452                 goto Loop    ; stay in LOOP
                   00453
                   00454
                   00455                 END

But, when i do a small change on Software, nothing happens, the osciloscope
shows anything!


                   00437
0000                00438                 ORG     0
0000 C001           00439                 GOTO    Start
                   00440
0001                00441 Start
0001 B800           00442                  MOVLB  BANK0 ;select bank1
0002 B000           00443                  MOVLW  0x00
0003 0111           00444                  MOVWF  DDRB  ; portb as output
                   00445
0004                00446 Loop
0004 B706           00447                  lcall Sub     ; call a FLIP-FLOP
subroutine
0005 C004           00448                  goto Loop    ; stay in LOOP
0006                00449 Sub
                   00450
0006 B000           00451                 MOVLW  0x00
0007 0112           00452                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
0008 B0FF           00453                 MOVLW  0xFF
0009 0112           00454                 MOVWF  PORTB ; Flip-Flop
000A 0002           00455                 RETURN
                   00456
                   00457                 END

What am i doing wrong? Wait for other BIG question! (Now in MPLAB17-C)

My mpab is 01.50, but i think that's not the problem! (BUG)

Miguel Wisintainer

------------------------------


'C programming question: Sorry, wrong list, don't a'
1998\08\29@091720 by Peter L. Peres
picon face
On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, L-Soft list server at MITVMA (1.8c) wrote:
>
> > Your message dated Sat,  29 Aug 1998 15:27:45 +0000 (  ) with subject "C
> > programming question on Linux: How to make Flex-based binary small?" has
> > been successfully distributed to the PICLIST list (1649 recipients).
>
> Aargh. My turn to pollute the list. This message should have gone to the
> ILUG mailing list. Sorry.
>
> Peter

1998\08\29@120539 by Matt D K

picon face
Hi

Don't worry I'm not going to flame you. What list is that your on. I'm a
beginner in C and am looking for a mailing list for other linux users.

thanks
Matt K
                                                           Matt K
                                 "Just your not so average electronics
geek"

On Sat, 29 Aug 1998 16:04:35 +0000 "Peter L. Peres" <KILLspamplpspamBeGonespamACTCOM.CO.IL>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1998\08\29@152412 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
ILUG = Israeli Linux User Group

Visit http://www.linux.org.il for more. There are people from overseas on
the list, but the list at rutgers.edu is better for them imho.

Peter


'It's wrong. 5Vdc supply'
1998\10\14@223319 by Eduardo Rivera
flavicon
face
It took me some time trying to figured out how is possible to get 5 volts
D.C. from this circuit and  finally decided to ask for your opinion.
It was hard  for me to belive the drawing is wrong because this circuit was
found on the Internet and it's the power supply for a PIC application.

Can't we trust on applications downloaded on line? Even from well known
sources.

-------------
EDUARDO WROTE:

> Hi all guys,
>Could someone give me his thoughts about this circuit?(hope is clear ASCII).
>It is supposed to supply 5 volts and is powered directly from AC, 220 Volts
>in this particular case. It looks for me that the zener is wrongly biased.

0  <-------------- 220 Vac ---------------->      0
|                                                 |
|                                                 |
x----------|(-----\/\/\/\/----x-------|<|---------x Gnd
        220nF     1K 5W      |                   |
                             |                   |
                             |            100nF  |
                             x--|>Z----x---|(----x
                                       |         |
                        5 V  zener     |         |
                                       0         T Gnd
-----------------------------               5Vdc
Peter wrote:
>>The zener is wrongly biased, swap the diode and the zener around. Also add
>>a 470K 0.5W resistor in parallel with the 220nF.

>>Peter
-------------------------------
{Quote hidden}

1998\10\15@124725 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Eduardo Rivera wrote:

>  It was hard  for me to belive the drawing is wrong because this circuit was
> found on the Internet and it's the power supply for a PIC application.
>
>  Can't we trust on applications downloaded on line? Even from well known
> sources.

You can't trust:

a) People you know
b) Parts and assemblies bought without a certificate from a reputable
source, even if others use them by the zillions
c) Most drawings and diagrams and tables in reputable books that have no
published errata
d) Your own engineering calculations (if you don't check yourself you're a
fool imho)
e) Your most trusted instruments (do you short the DVM cables between them
every time before testing ohms ? I do ;)

In any case, use extreme caution when building something after a net
document. This includes asking questions before you build.

Peter


'Sorry... Wrong forward!!'
1999\01\23@171220 by Mohamed Elegairy
picon face
Sorry everybody I forwarded some messages (titled DTMF) to my other email
(using outlook express, I'm sure I wrote my other e-mail address) but it
went to the list !!!!

Best regards
Mohamed Elegairy
mail me at : EraseMEegairyspamEraseMEusa.net
ICQ            : 14668366


'WHAT'S WRONG? [MIGUEL]'
1999\05\16@183648 by WF AUTOMACAO
flavicon
face
Dear old friends, help me!

         ; Inicio
         list p=16F84
         radix     dec
         include <P16F84.INC>
         ; Variables
contador   equ d'12'
         org     0x000
         movlw   0x1F
         tris    PORTA
         movlw   0x00
         tris    PORTB

         movlw 0
         movwf contador

loop
         incf contador,f


         movlw contador
         movwf PORTB

         goto loop

         END

Why don't my PORTB pulse? (The level is constant in all BITS of PORTB... ;(  )

Can you see what i'm doing wrong?

Thanks!

Miguel

1999\05\16@191009 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
WF AUTOMACAO wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Best regards

Tony

PicNPoke - Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email @spam@picnpoke@spam@spamspam_OUTcdi.com.au

1999\05\16@192042 by Regulus Berdin

picon face
Hi,

WF AUTOMACAO wrote:
> loop
>           incf contador,f
>
>           movlw contador
You are putting the location of 'contador' to W not the value of
'contador'.
So this line should be: movf contador,w

>           movwf PORTB
>
>           goto loop
>
>           END

regards,
Reggie

--
e-mail: spamBeGonerberdinspamKILLspambigfoot.com
ICQ#:   31651436
URL:    http://www.bigfoot.com/~rberdin

1999\05\16@192254 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
I forgot to metion, that you will probably see just a blur of LEDs on
portB without some sort of delay routine, unless your clock speed is
only a few hertz :-)

--
Best regards

Tony

PicNPoke - Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email .....picnpokespam_OUTspamcdi.com.au

1999\05\16@192911 by Valter Gruntar

flavicon
face
Hi miguel

The mistake is :

WF AUTOMACAO wrote:

{Quote hidden}

instead :

>
>           movlw contador

has to be:

           movf    contador,w

{Quote hidden}

Valter

1999\05\17@004935 by CUTTLER!

flavicon
face
Nope...

Check to make sure that the reset (MCLR*) is correct and being driven...
Also make sure that the

START
               CLRF    FSR               ; ensure FSR register bits 5,6 are
reset

This could effect your goto

>Can you see what i'm doing wrong?

1999\05\17@014213 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
"CUTTLER!" wrote:
>
> Nope...
>
> Check to make sure that the reset (MCLR*) is correct and being driven...
> Also make sure that the
>
> START
>                 CLRF    FSR               ; ensure FSR register bits 5,6 are
> reset
>
> This could effect your goto

The FSR has nothing to do with GOTO's or CALLS, neither does the PCLATH
with a 16F84.

--
Best regards

Tony

PicNPoke - Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email TakeThisOuTpicnpoke.....spamTakeThisOuTcdi.com.au

1999\05\17@111711 by Windows-1252?Q?Sebasti=E1n_Dols?=

flavicon
face
Why don't my PORTB pulse? (The level is constant in all BITS of PORTB...
 )

Can you see what i'm doing wrong?
------------
(code snipped, I hate crossposting)

The code looks good to me. Your PORTB levels are constant looking with an
oscilloscope? or too fast to detect with your detection device? Maybe is a
bit silly anwer but if you are using a multimeter or something like this,
you never will detect changes, if your clock is in the MHz range..

Hope it helps

Sebastian Dols

1999\05\17@134614 by Anbar

flavicon
face
Try to do like this.
bsf STATUS,RP0
movlw 0x1F
tris PORTA
movlw 0x00
tris PORTB
bcf STATUS,RP0

I think the initialization of its PORTS not this correct one. You have to
operate in bank1
Good Luck.

-----Mensagem original-----
De: Tony Nixon <TakeThisOuTTony.NixonKILLspamspamspamENG.MONASH.EDU.AU>
Para: .....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Domingo, 16 de Maio de 1999 16:08
Assunto: Re: WHAT'S WRONG? [MIGUEL]


WF AUTOMACAO wrote:
{Quote hidden}

;(  )
>
> Can you see what i'm doing wrong?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Miguel

--
Best regards

Tony

PicNPoke - Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email spamBeGonepicnpoke@spam@spamspam_OUTcdi.com.au

1999\05\17@235233 by Pablo De Leon

picon face
The 16f84's datasheet say  "don't use the tris instruction anymore"
The TRIS register is a standard register in the 16f84. You can write or read
it as any other register.
The TRIS A is located at 85h, the same address than the port and the TRISB
is at 86h.
You need to select the bank 1 and write directly to the register.



The suggested mode is:
TRIS_A equ 0x85
TRIS_B equ 0x86

bsf status, rpo   ; select bank 1
movlw     0x1f
movwf     TRIS_A
movlw     0
movwf    TRIS_B
bcf    status, rpo
Atte: Pablo De Leon
TakeThisOuTpdeleonspamspambigfoot.com






{Quote hidden}


'I'm Sorry!!! I'm wrote wrong about RB4 Pin!!'
1999\08\03@143955 by ES CAPRONI/4905/962/Graduacao
flavicon
face
Dear PicMasters:
     Yesterday I wrote a message about a RB4 pin in a pic16c84, but I
didn't wrote correctly.

     My problem is: "When I configure the RB4 to OUTPUT, the pin don't
works. In MPLAB simulator the tris register and porta register works fine,
but in the circuit, nothing. I wrote a small program to test this port, but
didn't works to."

     Sorry my stupid question and my stupid error.

     Best Regards:
         Rodolfo - Brazil

1999\08\03@192624 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
RODOLFO SOARES CAPRONI/4905/962/Graduacao wrote:
>       My problem is: "When I configure the RB4 to OUTPUT, the pin don't
> works. In MPLAB simulator the tris register and porta register works fine,
> but in the circuit, nothing. I wrote a small program to test this port, but
> didn't works to."

What is the pin connected to. Try just flashing a LED and resistor. If
this fails then maybe your RB4 pin is dead.

--
Best regards

Tony

"COMING SOON"
A Parallax to PIC source code converter.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email ???

1999\08\03@194640 by Alice Campbell

flavicon
face
another thing to try before complete panic:

1.using voltmeter, measure voltage from vss to vcc.  is it 5v? if
not, fix it, and go to step 2.
2.  measure voltage from -mclr to ground. is it 0? if not, fix it,
and go to step 3.
3. measure voltage on osc1 and osc2.  they should be somewhere
between 1.5 and 3 volts. they are generally a little different, but
both pins ought to have some voltage.  if not, it isnt oscillating,
probably.  fiddle with capacitor sizes.   try doubling up on the 15
pfs for a total of 30pf on each leg.
4.  if oscillator seems ok, measure voltage on  b4.  if it is 5
volts, the led is in backwards.  if not, edit program and try b3 or 2
or 1.  at this point you should have some idea if the thing is
working at all.
5.  a dead pic wont program, probably, and will give
verify errors.  a live one can usually be read back ok.  this isnt
foolproof.
6.  now, and only now, you may panic.

alice
{Quote hidden}

1999\08\04@004351 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Alice Campbell wrote:
>
> another thing to try before complete panic:
>
> 1.using voltmeter, measure voltage from vss to vcc.  is it 5v? if
> not, fix it, and go to step 2.
> 2.  measure voltage from -mclr to ground. is it 0? if not, fix it,
> and go to step 3.

 Um...  Um...  Uh...  <Cough Cough>

 I usually pull ~MClr UP to Vss/Vcc (+5V), through a 10k resistor (for
example), if it's at Ground the PIC's being held in reset, don't expect
the PIC to run...

> 3. measure voltage on osc1 and osc2.  they should be somewhere
> between 1.5 and 3 volts. they are generally a little different, but
> both pins ought to have some voltage.  if not, it isnt oscillating,
> probably.  fiddle with capacitor sizes.   try doubling up on the 15
> pfs for a total of 30pf on each leg.

 ...  Except your O-Scope or DVM probe may well affect the operation of
the oscillator drastically, best/easiest to use a buffer & check that
the buffer's output has a nice clean wave on it - or use a 10x O-Scope
probe, and expect some frequency deviation if your circuit's running
critical timing.

{Quote hidden}

 And there's the ever-popular RA4 problem where people forget that RA4
is open drain (i.e. will only ground itself, not pull itself high), but
this isn't applicable here as you're talking RB4 not RA4.  I mention
this just in case you MEANT RA4 <G>  (I've done worse than that,
myself!)

 Mark

1999\08\04@120947 by Alice Campbell

flavicon
face
thanks for the catch, mark,  darn brain browns out whenever i try to
put any load on it.  more coffee....
alice



> > and go to step 3.
>
>   Um...  Um...  Uh...  <Cough Cough>
>
>   I usually pull ~MClr UP to Vss/Vcc (+5V), through a 10k resistor (for
> example), if it's at Ground the PIC's being held in reset, don't expect
> the PIC to run...
>
>

'[OT] Re: I'm Sorry!!! I'm wrote wrong about RB4 Pi'
1999\08\04@132148 by Dan Creagan

flavicon
face
>From Alice:


<snip>  darn brain browns out whenever i try to
put any load on it.  more coffee....


>From Dan:

My favorite quote along these lines was from Anne a week or two ago. It went
along the lines of: "I find it much more efficient to embarass myself in
front of a world wide audience than when at home, work or commute."

I really had a good chuckle - mainly because I had been there a few times
myself.


Dan

> > and go to step 3.
>
>   Um...  Um...  Uh...  <Cough Cough>
>
>   I usually pull ~MClr UP to Vss/Vcc (+5V), through a 10k resistor (for
> example), if it's at Ground the PIC's being held in reset, don't expect
> the PIC to run...
>
>

1999\08\04@143438 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hey, same here - Stress tends to MORE than equalize all of any few
advantages we might (or might not) have, resulting in a net effective
(or at least demonstrable!) IQ of about -15, whenever we post in public
or show our boss our favorite tricks, things invariably go WrNoG <G>
Coffee can help.  Taking the day off's far more fun, though.

 Mark

Dan Creagan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'MPLAB desires (or Is it wrong to dream?)'
1999\08\06@004407 by Thomas Brandon

flavicon
picon face
Thanks for the advice on javax.comm. Implementing cross platform
serial/parallel support shouldn't be too hard. As you say, the problem will
be providing good NT support. The best thing about this is NT people can
write the native NT methods while some Mac programmer can do the Mac native
code.

In regards to your last reply:
To incroporate the VBA runtime it isn't a requirement to be all ActiveX but
the VBA runtime would be an ActiveX component. Hence to interface with VBA
you need ActiveX code thus you need an ActiveX interface to all the working
of your program. That doesn't mean your program has to be ActiveX. You could
simply have an ActiveX interface that talks to all your existing C DLLs. But
I don't think you can avoid having an ActiveX interface somewhere along the
lines but of course this could be the ActiveX interface M$s VM automatically
creates for all Javabeans hence ActiveX programming isn't required, just the
interface.

An ActiveX interface is no more impractical than the current C interface.
But of course retrospectively converting their C interfaces to ActiveX is a
lot of work. But just an ActiveX (or Java) interface for the Stimuli stuff
would be great and not so impractical.

Obviously writing a full blown simulator of the level of say Protel or any
of the VHDL sim. tools is out of the question (although if you managed to
add support for say SPICE simulation most of the work would be done for
you). A simple simulator (anyone seen Electronics Workbench, nice simple
Analog/digital simulator. Not good for production level sims but good to
logically test a design if nothing else). So you start with a simple PIC
only simulator (you could of course try and use something like the gpsim
engine ported to Java) then you add support for hard coded stimuli. Then
code generated stimuli. Then support for linking to external stimuli (so you
have the PIC stuff done by the PC but all the other hardware as hardware).
Then support for simulation of components to produce stimuli. It'd still be
a big task. But if you start with an extensible base it will go as far as
you want it to go.

BTW: I'm not saying MChip *should* add an ActiveX interface. I'm sure
there'd be no complaints (at least from PC users) if they did. But they
won't because it's too expensive. Which is always the problem with software
development. You have to get your product to market ASAP but the sooner you
get it on the market the sooner it's outdated and the sooner it's underlying
architecture (e.g. C DLL, ActiveX DLLs, Java Beans) becomes obsolete.

Tom.
{Original Message removed}


'PicList - Whats wrong'
2000\02\03@090012 by Gene Norris
picon face
Is there something wrong with the PICLIST site?  I have
been trying to access it for the past three days without
success.  At first I got a message that too many people
were on.  And then I started getting CONNECTION REFUSED.

I want to search the list for examples of low battery
detection schemes.

Thanks, Gene.






Gene & Sydelle Norris
@spam@enorrisspam_OUTspam.....home.com
http://members.home.net/enorris
E. Windsor, NJ USA

2000\02\03@102611 by Quentin

flavicon
face
Which site are you using?
I use:
www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/index.html
and all is well.
This is a realtime site.
Even your original post is there already.
For older posts, go to the original site of above:
http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/

Quentin

'PicList - Whats wrong [OT]'
2000\02\03@103857 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Its been a bad few days for the piclist.com address. There is apparently a
continuing DNS problem. I first noticed it yesterday (DNS problems don't
always show up the same way to everyone, it can be fine in one area for a
quite a while after the problem actually occurs) and notified the DNS
provider, domain name owner (Jory) and the other admins (Mark). The DNS
provider restarted a server (which solved the problem at least for me and at
least until yesterday evening) and suggested some changes.

Today, the address is again not resolving to an IP address. The site itself
is not busy or overloaded. The DNS server is apparently what is giving you
the "too many people" message.

The DNS provider is very helpful and I'm sure that he and Jory will be able
to get it solved. I'll do anything I can as well.

In the mean time, you can access the server directly and the piclist.com
site via the techref at:
http://204.210.50.240/techref/default.asp?url=piclist

Also, the search engine for the PICList is not at the piclist.com site.
There is a link from piclist.com but the site is
http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/

And on top of that... The site server had a bad night last night from about
2200 to 0630 but was up yesterday and is up today. The damn thing screwed
itself good.... Second time since we started. No idea why. Had a VDX page
fault message this time. Nothing in the M$ knowledge base. Blue screen by
this morning and a lot of people said they couldn't get in. Sorry about the
hassle. Its up again now.

The good news is PacBell finally got our 384kbps DSL connection up at a
location where the server can be monitored 24/7. The current server only has
human companionship <GRIN> 06:30 to 15:30 daily.  We are testing the
connection for reliability and setting up a new server machine. Then we will
register a nicer domain name for the techref and move the techref and
PICList sites. The old server will continue for other things and refer
techref and PICList people to the new address.

I'm also experimenting with Linux (Red Hat 6.1) as a router and backup web
server. I've seen some interesting things done where an NT box and a Linux
box ping each other (actually they hit each others web pages) and if one
dies, the other takes over. The idea is that even if something external
(hacker, virus, anything that triggers an OS flaw, etc...) kills one, its
very unlikely to kill the other. Since I use a lot of ASP and 32-bit machine
language MASM code, in my case the Linux box will only have a "We are
experiencing technical difficulties" web page and it will spend its time
screaming (pager, audio alarm, phone calls, etc...) for help and maybe
rebooting the NT server. So far the Red Hat installer has some kind of
security problem with the partition table, but I've not had time to really
trouble shoot it. Any Linux guru's in the San Diego north county area?

---
James Newton spamBeGonejamesnewtonEraseMEspamgeocities.com 1-619-652-0593
http://techref.homepage.com The Technical Details Site.
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)


{Original Message removed}

2000\02\03@130051 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hmmm.  Today, I'm not getting a 403.9 - getting DNS failure here, on
piclist.com, now.  The WhoIs still works fine from here, but no IP
address at ns.houseofdomains.com or ns2.houseofdomains.com, I guess -
This time, no IP block info, no TraceRoute.  That's different.

Part of the complication is: EACH ISP has their own local DNS server
that handles some IP address requests, if I'm understanding this
correctly - changes propogate from the source of the "disturbance",
outwards.  Read the "readers' digest" version a while ago, quickly, with
imperfect retention <G> so I don't remember it all, need to bookmark
that site next time I hunt it down, browser crash ate the URL.  And, my
brain's full <G>

When I look up a DNS name from here, for example, I'm accessing
FoxInternet.Net's DNS servers - and if they don't see it they somehow
ask some other "more senior" DNS server etc.  Right now,
http://www.piclist.com/techref/default.asp?url=piclist doesn't work from
here (DNS fail), OTOH
http://204.210.50.240/techref/default.asp?url=piclist works fine.

 Mark

James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\02\03@190623 by quozl

flavicon
face
On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 07:37:18AM -0800, James Newton wrote:
> Since I use a lot of ASP and 32-bit machine
> language MASM code, [...]

On the web server?  Wow.  ;-)  Use PHP to replace the ASP on Linux.

Update: in .au, the http://www.piclist.com does not resolve, but piclist.com
works fine.

--
James Cameron   RemoveMEquozl@spam@spamspamBeGoneus.netrek.org   http://quozl.us.netrek.org/

2000\02\04@105302 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Just a sad update on your premier PICList information web site:

Nightmare 1: The piclist.com address will be out for a short time. There is
an admin problem that can't be immediately corrected. To work around this
and to provide some additional reliability for the future, I've scrapped
together the $35 and registered piclist.org (out of my own very empty
pocket, damn it, send donations to .....goodcause@spam@spamEraseMEpisspoor.net <GRIN>) and
pointed it at the server. Give it a day to propagate, its working now in my
area (San Diego) on Road Runner cable and Pacbell DSL DNS servers.

One or the other of
http://www.piclist.com  (down now)
or
http://www.piclist.org
or at least
http://204.210.50.240/piclist
should always work.

There is a lot of excellent content and links at this site. I'm proud of it
and you should be too as 99% of the PIC related info comes directly from you
via the PICList or from thoughs of you who have signed up and added notes
directly. With a smarter webmaster (that's me) and better luck than we've
had this past week, it acts as an excellent adjunct to the list.

For now, the <admin persons name>@piclist.com or piclist.org email addresses
will not work. I'm still .....jamesnewtonRemoveMEspamgeocities.com (as always) and
.....jnewtonSTOPspamspam@spam@san.rr.com. If anyone sent email to a piclist.com address, we
probably didn't get it. The listserver is of course completely separate (and
much more reliable) and unaffected so admin requests or listserv commands
are not in any way related to what I'm talking about here.

Nightmare 2: The new DSL connection was nicely dropping carrier and then
getting it again all last night. Long hours ahead on the phone to Pacbell
tech support and I will probably have to replace the (strange looking) phone
cables to the server closet in case that is the problem. It screams when it
works though. 1.5Mbps out and 384kbps in <GRIN>

Nightmare 3: And then we starting thinking (first mistake <GRIN>) about
reliability on the current server and realized that we hadn't updated the
Virus software in a while. So we spent some company money on the best
available and... Last night, at about 1900, the brand new Norton package
decided that a maintenance daemon was exhibiting "virus like" activity and
BROUGHT THE ENTIRE SERVER TO A HALT so that it could ask an operator what to
do.... It couldn't just stop that one service, no... it stopped the entire
machine... who writes this shit?

I will hooked up the cables for the monitor switch so I could start working
on the backup Linux box again.

Hang in there,
---
James Newton jamesnewtonEraseMEspam@spam@geocities.com 1-619-652-0593


{Original Message removed}


'[OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong '
2000\09\16@080904 by Peter L. Peres
picon face
In all this Kafkaesque thread there is only one thing that has remained
unexplained imho: Why would anyone, for any reason, set a clock for a
different time than present, and that as accurately as possible ? I mean,
if you don't need the exact time, why not use a photograph of a clock set
for some convenient time (pleasant memories etc) ? At least there is no
need to wind it up and its batteries won't run down.

just curious,

Peter

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2000\09\16@135118 by Andy Howard

picon face
> From: "Peter L. Peres" <RemoveMEplpspamspamBeGoneACTCOM.CO.IL>

> In all this Kafkaesque thread there is only one thing that has remained
> unexplained imho: Why would anyone, for any reason, set a clock for a
> different time than present, and that as accurately as possible ? I mean,
> if you don't need the exact time, why not use a photograph of a clock set
> for some convenient time (pleasant memories etc) ? At least there is no
> need to wind it up and its batteries won't run down.
>
> just curious,


I asked a GF this once. She said it was so she wouldn't be late. I suppose
the idea was that there would be two timezones, house time and
everywhere-else time.  Now this doesn't work for me. If I know the clock is
15 minutes fast I look at the clock and think "Oh good, I've got another 15
minutes yet."

Maybe this is something that needs to be to be added to the next edition of
"Men are from Mars...etc".











.

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2000\09\16@151714 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
       As to why, it makes my wife on time when she's running late. For me, it
makes me real early...  Then again, most of the country messes with the
clock so they can get up earlier in the summer...  Thank you Ben
Franklin!

Harold

On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:08:48 +0200 "Peter L. Peres" <spamBeGoneplpKILLspamspam@spam@ACTCOM.CO.IL>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

FCC Rules Online at http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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'[OT]:GOTO Re: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\16@192901 by Jinx

face picon face
> if you don't need the exact time, why not use a photograph of a clock set

(for Goon Show fans  http://www.goons.cx The Mysterious Punch-Up-The-Conker.
This routine, one of Spike Milligna's best, available on site as an MP3, )

Bluebottle: What time is it Eccles?
Eccles: Err, just a minute. I've got it written down on a piece of paper. A
nice man wrote the time down for me this morning.
Bluebottle: Ooooh, then why do you carry it around with you Eccles?
Eccles: Welll, um, if a anybody asks me the time, I can show it to dem.
Bluebottle: Wait a minute Eccles, my good man.
Eccles: What is it fellow?
Bluebottle: It's writted on this bit of paper, what is eight o'clock, is
writted.
Eccles: I know that my good fellow. That's right, um, when I asked the fella
to write it down, it was eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: Well then. Supposing when somebody asks you the time, it
isn't eight o'clock?
Eccles: Well den, I don't show it to 'em.
Bluebottle: Ooohhh.
Eccles: [smacks lips] yeah.
Bluebottle: Well how do you know when it's eight o'clock?
Eccles: I've got it written down on a piece of paper.
Bluebottle: Ohh, I wish I could afford a piece of paper with the time
written on.
Eccles: Oohhhh.
Bluebottle: 'Ere Eccles?
Eccles: Yah.
Bluebottle: Let me hold that piece of paper to my ear would you? 'Ere.
This piece of paper ain't goin'
Eccles: What? I've been sold a forgery.
Bluebottle: No wonder it stopped at eight o'clock.
Eccles: Oh dear.
Bluebottle: You should get one of them tings my Grandad's got.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: His firm give it to him when he retired.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: It's one of dem tings what it is that wakes you up at eight
o'clock,
boils the kettil, and pours a cuppa tea.
Eccles: Ohhh yeah. What's it called? Um.
Bluebottle: My Granma.
Eccles: Ohh. Ohh, wait a minute. How does she know when it's eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: She's got it written down on a piece of paper.

--
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'[OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong '
2000\09\17@221809 by Carl Ranson

flavicon
face
I used to have a GF who was always running late. I had to adjust any meeting
time by 15 mins so that she would show up on time. It used to drive her
nuts, but her parents thought it was brilliant :)

> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\18@071845 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
I thought they messed around with it so they could get up later in the winter.
I'm all for DST in the winter, and double-DST in the summer.

Andy









Harold Hallikainen <haroldhallikainenspam_OUTspam@spam@JUNO.COM> on 09/16/2000 03:03:41 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks
         wrong ?!








       As to why, it makes my wife on time when she's running late. For me, it
makes me real early...  Then again, most of the country messes with the
clock so they can get up earlier in the summer...  Thank you Ben
Franklin!

Harold

On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:08:48 +0200 "Peter L. Peres" <spamBeGoneplpspam_OUTspamRemoveMEACTCOM.CO.IL>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

FCC Rules Online at http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
dl.http://www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu


2000\09\18@091325 by rad0

picon face
life was much different before the trains...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kunz" <akunzspam@spam@TDIPOWER.COM>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!


> I thought they messed around with it so they could get up later in the
winter.
{Quote hidden}

<spamBeGonePICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

me, it
{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\18@101429 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
       And we need to mess with the clocks to get up earlier or later? I don't
reset the clock on weekends...

Harold

On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:17:24 -0400 Andrew Kunz <RemoveMEakunzKILLspamspam@spam@TDIPOWER.COM>
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2000\09\18@133717 by Barry Gershenfeld

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> Now this doesn't work for me. If I know the clock is
>15 minutes fast I look at the clock and think "Oh good, I've got another 15
>minutes yet."

You are missing one essential ingredient in this equation.  Besides
a clock with setting buttons on top, you must have a cat.  Then
the clock time will be advanced at irregular intervals, and you
won't actually know the correction factor.

One morning at work I had people staring at their watches..."What's
he doing here? Is my watch broken?"

Barry

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'[OT]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\18@175150 by Jinx

face picon face
> I thought they messed around with it so they could get up later in
> the winter. I'm all for DST in the winter, and double-DST in the summer.
>
> Andy

But surely all that extra sun just fades the curtains faster ?

I know at least one town in NZ and one in Arizona where they don't
alter their clocks

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'[OT]:GOTO: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\18@175159 by Jinx

face picon face
> From: rad0

> life was much different before the trains...

I believe the original standardisation of time was across the south of
England to make sure trains would arrive when people expected
them to. Before that, each town had its own time based on sunrise/
sunset, meaning many time zones from Cornwall to London. 19th
century mobile timepieces were accurate enough to establish the
Greenwich standard and govern the railways. And yet they still run
late today, "leaves on the track", "signal failure", etc

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'[OT]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\18@181553 by Nick Taylor

picon face
Jinx wrote:
>
> > I thought they messed around with it so they could get up later in
> > the winter. I'm all for DST in the winter, and double-DST in the summer.
> >
> > Andy
>
> But surely all that extra sun just fades the curtains faster ?
>
> I know at least one town in NZ and one in Arizona where they don't
> alter their clocks
>
All of Arizona stays on Standard Time year round.  They don't need or
want the extra daylight!

-Nick

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2000\09\18@191324 by Jinx

face picon face
> All of Arizona stays on Standard Time year round.  They don't need or
> want the extra daylight!
>
>  -Nick

And we all know (are told) the sun shines out of Chandler ;-)

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'[OT]:why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\19@041144 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I believe the original standardisation of time was across the south of
>England to make sure trains would arrive when people expected
>them to. Before that, each town had its own time based on sunrise/
>sunset, meaning many time zones from Cornwall to London. 19th
>century mobile timepieces were accurate enough to establish the
>Greenwich standard and govern the railways. And yet they still run
>late today, "leaves on the track", "signal failure", etc

Not only leaves on the track and signal failure, but the wrong sort of snow as well (it freezes up the points and makes the rails slippery apparently). The rail network was certainly the  instigation for the standardisation of time across Britain. However even now there is a clock in Oxford, I think it is at the university, where "Oxford" time is maintained. It is about 5 minutes different to GMT.

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'[OT]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\19@071916 by Andrew Kunz

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face
They are zoned differently.  1/2 of Indiana doesn't change either.

M$ is good for something.  If you check your Windows time functions, there is a
good list of the time zones in the world (not all of them though).  One of them
is Eastern Indiana.

Andy









Jinx <spam_OUTjoecolquittSTOPspamspamCLEAR.NET.NZ> on 09/18/2000 05:51:29 PM

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Subject: Re: [OT]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!








> I thought they messed around with it so they could get up later in
> the winter. I'm all for DST in the winter, and double-DST in the summer.
>
> Andy

But surely all that extra sun just fades the curtains faster ?

I know at least one town in NZ and one in Arizona where they don't
alter their clocks

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'[OT]:GOTO: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\19@071930 by Andrew Kunz

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The trains are what did it for the USA, too.

Andy








Jinx <joecolquittRemoveMEspamCLEAR.NET.NZ> on 09/18/2000 05:51:50 PM

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Subject: Re: [OT]:GOTO: why set clocks wrong ?!








> From: rad0

> life was much different before the trains...

I believe the original standardisation of time was across the south of
England to make sure trains would arrive when people expected
them to. Before that, each town had its own time based on sunrise/
sunset, meaning many time zones from Cornwall to London. 19th
century mobile timepieces were accurate enough to establish the
Greenwich standard and govern the railways. And yet they still run
late today, "leaves on the track", "signal failure", etc

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'[OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong '
2000\09\19@151331 by Mark Willis

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face
Barry Gershenfeld wrote:
> > Now this doesn't work for me. If I know the clock is
> >15 minutes fast I look at the clock and think "Oh good, I've got another 15
> >minutes yet."
>
> You are missing one essential ingredient in this equation.  Besides
> a clock with setting buttons on top, you must have a cat.  Then
> the clock time will be advanced at irregular intervals, and you
> won't actually know the correction factor.
>
> One morning at work I had people staring at their watches..."What's
> he doing here? Is my watch broken?"
>
> Barry

<G>  Not too hard to put a kitty cover atop said clock.  I put mine into
the headboard so the kitties cannot get at the set buttons, works well.

For cat control, don't do what some try, though, and hot-glue thumbtacks
(point up) atop your gear;  It doesn't work (Maxi-Cat used to sit right
on the bare spots and give my brother a dirty look.  From atop his
'phonograph' / record player.)  Especially, don't try this on your
clock.

The WWVB clock acts as a reality check, though.

 Mark

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2000\09\19@152558 by Severson, Rob

flavicon
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>
> The WWVB clock acts as a reality check, though.

I have my alarm clock set to "wife time". Right next to it I have a WWVB
clock. Saves my sanity, it does.

-Rob

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'[OT]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\19@155732 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>All of Arizona stays on Standard Time year round.  They don't need or
>want the extra daylight!
>
> -Nick

Well, I tried hard, but reading this, I cannot resist: Know that Israel
(latitude ~= Arizona ?) does have DST and the changeover date is changed
every year (sometimes twice) by the minister of the interior. Keeping
several machines on a heterogenous network up to date with this random
number generator is not funny at all. I have been known to show up at work
1 hour early/late once a year or so in the last few years (sometimes they
move the change date on very short notice - like 2 weeks or less). Windows
and Unix hosts have their own ideas about when the DST starts/ends and the
ensuing hunt for mistimed machines can go on for weeks ;-( So there is no
need for GF's to s**** the clocks, as they have a government minister for
this here. This DST business reminds me of a certain Chaplin film where
other devices were used to make people 'more efficient'.

Peter

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'[OT]:Re: [EE]:GOTO Re:{OOT]: why set clocks wrong '
2000\09\19@164333 by acampbell

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face
Because reality is relative.  literalists.  hmmmph.  ...and
why cant 'they' make a watch with a 'TURBO' mode so i can set
it ahead to turbo when i have got leave work in time to pick
up the kid at 6:00 or face $1/minute fine, and reset with a
single push to 'real' time otherwise.

alice

{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\19@171214 by jamesnewton

face picon face
What we, errr, no not we... What *I* actually need is a button on my watch
that sets * everyone else's * clocks back so that I have more time to get
the work done...

Hmmm... if I make a very cheap, internet connected, PIC based clock in many
different packages and give it away for years until only Newton clocks are
still in service, then send the broadcast ping with the "set back" command
when I really need it...

...of course, there is still that pesky rotation of the earth and the
vibration of the atoms in the atomic clocks... details, details.

...if I always do a "set forward" during the boring part of a day that I did
the "set back" would anyone notice?

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'[OT]:why set clocks wrong ?!'
2000\09\20@040156 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>...if I always do a "set forward" during the boring part
>of a day that I did the "set back" would anyone notice?

actually what you need to be doing is arrive at work late, but then so you are not late twice in a day, go home early. You do need to be careful how you set your clock though, otherwise the latter action may precede the first action.

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'[PICLIST] Whats wrong with this?'
2001\02\04@003824 by Peter May
flavicon
face
I have got out a 16F877 and started playing with it's analog inputs whilst I
am waiting on an answer to an external ADC like a 548 etc. I have been
looking around for code to study on reading an input as an analog. I came up
with this.

DEFINE ADC_BITS 10              'Its a 10 bit pic
DEFINE ADC_SAMPLEUS 50          'Sample time
TRISA = 255                             'Sets all port a to input
A0 VAR WORD

High PORTB.7
Pause 500
ADCON1 = 2
Loop:

ADCIN 0,A0

SerOut PORTB.6,4,["start",#A0,"stop"]
Toggle PORTB.7
Pause 50
GoTo loop

I have an output of a 535 hooked up to A0. My question? Is there anything
wrong with the above method? Will it be accurate? I have seen another method
using binary to set up conditions etc like clock rate etc etc . Why should I
do it different etc.

All comments welcome.

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'[PIC]: Timer2 and MPLAB (What's Wrong With This Co'
2001\02\07@114102 by Ronald Cotton

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face
I am a fairly new user of PIC controllers.  I am using a PIC 16C74B to flash
a set of LEDs, located on PORTB, on and off at 5 second intervals.  I know
that there are several ways to accomplish this task; however, I have chosen
to user Timer2 with PostScaler=10, PR=250, and PreScaler=4 using a 4Mhz
clock yielding Internal clock rate of 1uS.  By my calculation this produces
an Interrupt every 10mS, which works fine.

Needing a delay of 5 secs forced the implementation of a inner and outer
loop, where the inner loop is executed 5 times and the outer loop is
executed a 100 times.  The problem is that when I simulate this in MPLAB and
use the StopWatch to view the number cycles, my program locks up around 50ms
-62ms.  If load this code into the PIC, the LEDS come on and stay on.  Is
there is glitch in my program, MPLAB, or I just missing it.

Thanks

Ronald

The code is shown Below:

               ORG     0x000                   ; processor reset vector
               clrf    PCLATH                  ; ensure page bits are
claared
               goto    main                    ; go to beginning of program


               ORG     0x004                   ; interrupt vector location
               movwf   w_temp                  ; save off current W
register contents
               movf    STATUS,w                ; move status register into
W register
               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ; ensure file register bank
set to 0
               movwf   status_temp             ; save off contents of
STATUS register
               movf    DelayValue,w            ; move status register into
W register
               movwf   DelayTemp               ; save off current
DelayValue contents






               btfsc   PIR1,TMR2IF             ; Handler for Timer2
               call    IntTimer2               ; Interrupt Handler for
Timer2

               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ; ensure file register bank
set to 0
               movf    status_temp,w           ; retrieve copy of STATUS
register
               movwf   STATUS                  ; restore pre-isr STATUS
register contents
               movf    DelayTemp,W             ; retrieve copy of delay
register
               movwf   DelayValue              ; restore pre-isr DelayValue
register
               swapf   w_temp,f
               swapf   w_temp,w                ; restore pre-isr W register
contents
               retfie                          ; return from interrupt
IntTimer2:
               bcf     PIR1,TMR2IF             ; Must Clear Int flag for
Timer2
               decf    Counter,F               ; Decrease Counter
               return



main:
               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ;
               movlw   0x04                    ;
               movwf   Counter                 ;
               movlw   0x63
               movwf   Outer

               call    InitTimer2              ;

               movlw   0xc0                    ;
               movwf   INTCON                  ;

               movlw   0x49                    ; Prescaler=16,
PostScaler=16
               movwf   T2CON                   ; Since OSC = 4Mhz timer =
1uS
               bsf     T2CON,TMR2ON            ; Start Timer

MainLoop:
               call    DecOuter
               call    LED
               goto    MainLoop

;***************************************************************************
******************
;*      Everything in this section represents either initialization code or
*
;*      helper functions.
*
;*
*
;*                      Ronald J.Cotton
*
;*                      02/02/2001
*
;***************************************************************************
******************


DecOuter:       decf    Outer,F
DecInner:       btfss   Counter,7               ;
               goto    DecInner
               movlw   0x05                    ;
               addwf   Counter,F               ; Put Counter back to 50
               btfss   Outer,7
               goto    DecOuter
               goto    ReInit
ReInit:
               movlw   0x64
               addwf   Outer,F
               return


LED:
               comf    PORTB,F                 ; Toggle PORTB
               return

InitTimer2:
               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ; Ensure Reg Bank 0
               clrf    T2CON                   ; Stop Timer2, Pre=1:1,
Post=1:1
               clrf    TMR2                    ; Clear Timer2 register
               clrf    PIR1                    ; Clear Interrupt Flag
register
               bsf     STATUS,RP0              ; Bank1
               clrf    PIE1                    ; Disable all Peripheral
Interrupts
               bsf     PIE1,TMR2IE             ; Enable only Timer2
               movlw   0xf9                    ; Timeout Value = 249
               movwf   PR2                     ;

               clrf    TRISB                   ; Make PortB output
               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ; Back to Bank0
               movlw   0xff                    ; All on
               movwf   PORTB                   ; Initialize LEDS to be on
               return


               END                             ; directive 'end of program'

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2001\02\07@124232 by Drew Vassallo

picon face
>                 ORG     0x004                   ; interrupt vector >
>           movwf   w_temp                  ; save off current W
>                 movf    STATUS,w                ; move status register >
>               bcf     STATUS,RP0              ; ensure file register >
>             movwf   status_temp             ; save off contents of
>                 movf    DelayValue,w            ; move status register >
>               movwf   DelayTemp               ; save off current

This is not a valid method of context saving.  That is because 'movf'
affects the STATUS register.  The example below performs proper context
saving/restoring.  'swapf' does not affect the STATUS register.

To save:
               movwf   w_temp          ; save off W and STATUS registers
               swapf   STATUS, 0
               movwf   status_temp
               clrf    STATUS          ; select Bank0

To restore:
               swapf   status_temp, 0          ; restore all registers
               movwf   STATUS
               swapf   w_temp, 1
               swapf   w_temp, 0
               retfie                          ; return from interrupt

I really didn't look at the rest very carefully; there may still be errors
hiding there as well.  Try the abovementioned fix first.

You're using a chainsaw to cut butter in your program, but it's good to
explore all the options of the PIC first before you actually try a more
complex program.  I'm assuming, of course, that you intend to do something
more complicated with this chip, otherwise you could use an 8-pin or 18-pin
flash chip without the extra timers, ports, options, etc.

--Andrew
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2001\02\07@150700 by Ronald Cotton

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face
Drew,
       I appreciate your corrections.  The book that I am using does not
show movwf affecting
the status bits;however, after glancing at the data sheet I now understand
that the method I used for context-saving was flawed.  I have corrected the
problem and my original problem still exists.

       I have abandoned the use of timer for now and used the Delay
Generator @ the Piclist
web site to generate code for a 10 second.  The code produce by the
generator also causes
MPLAB to stop after a random number of cycles.

       I need the majority of the functionality that this PIC, 16C74B
offers.  When testing, I like to write a section of code and make sure that
it is working properly before proceeding, hence the 5 second delay first
then the incorporation of the AD aspects later.

Thanks


{Original Message removed}

2001\02\07@163924 by Drew Vassallo

picon face
>The book that I am using does not
>show movwf affecting
>the status bits;however, after glancing at the data sheet I now

"movwf" doesn't affect the STATUS, the book is correct.  My statement
concerned "movf" which does affect the STATUS register.  After looking at
your code, though, that error wouldn't cause the problems you described,
however.

>         I have abandoned the use of timer for now and used the Delay
>Generator @ the Piclist
>web site to generate code for a 10 second.  The code produce by the
>generator also causes
>MPLAB to stop after a random number of cycles.

How "random"?  Before, you mentioned that it would stop after 50-62ms.
Since you disabled the timer interrupt (I assume), do you have any other
interrupts occurring?  Run the program through the MPLAB simulator and check
the PCL... make sure it isn't vectoring off somewhere undefined.

The only advice I can give without actually working through your code is to
keep chopping out small sections until the program works (what's left of it,
anyway), then try putting them back in one at a time to identify the
problem.

--Andrew
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'[PIC]: What is wrong with that code'
2001\02\08@042405 by Nuri ERGINER

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face
Hi,

Please have a look at the below code. The chip is 16f84a. The osilator is
selected as xt and the wdt is disabled. There is a button on RB0 to trigger
the interrupt and there is a motor driver on pins RB1 and RB2.
What I want to do is to count the button presses and change the direction of
the motor when It reaches to the specified values (max and min)
I will be very happy if someone can help me in the project.
The hi-tech C code (lite version):

#include <pic.h>
#define PIC_CLK 4000000
#include <delay.c>
#define CP_off|=0x3FFF//copy protect off

#define OUTPUT 0;
#define INPUT 1;

unsigned char max;
unsigned char min;
unsigned char pos=9;
unsigned char dir=1;


main(){

// init
       TRISB=49;
       PORTB=0;

       max=20;
       min=10;

       INTE=1;
       GIE=1;

       for(;;){
               if (pos>max) {
                       dir=0;
                       RB1=0;//motor left
                       RB2=1;//motor left
               }
               if (pos<min) {
                       dir=1;
                       RB1=1;//motor right
                       RB2=0;//motor right
               }


       }//for

}//main

static void interrupt isr(void){

if (INTF) {
       if (dir==0){pos--;}
       if (dir==1){pos++;}
       INTF=0;
}//if

}

Regards,
Nuri Erginer

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'[PIC]: Timer2 and MPLAB (What's Wrong With This Co'
2001\02\08@050341 by James Hillman

flavicon
face
part 1 1074 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

>
The problem is that when I simulate this in MPLAB and
use the StopWatch to view the number cycles, my program locks up around 50ms
-62ms.  If load this code into the PIC, the LEDS come on and stay on.  Is
there is glitch in my program, MPLAB, or I just missing it.
<

There is no "glitch " in your program. It works fine in mplab and it ran ok
on a pic16f627 I have, though I changed the comf portb,f instruction, and  I
would suggest you change the context saving at the start and end of the
interrupt routine (see notes in attached file rjc3.asm).

I set a break point at the movlw  0x05 in the DecInner: . It stopped there
every 50ms. I set another break point at the goto    ReInit instruction. It
stopped there every 5 seconds (hint: use Debug>Execute>Conditional break for
this, it is much quicker, but still painfully slow).
In your code you did not set up the fuses. Unless you set them when you
programmed the chip, the oscillator may not have worked (depending on your
setup of course).

James Hillman




part 2 6522 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 131 bytes
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'[PIC]: What is wrong with that code'
2001\02\08@074628 by NDuckworth

flavicon
face
Hi Nuri,

After a quick look I would say you are not sampling your button in real time,
are events happening too quickly for you to see?

I would use a 50mS interrupt from TMR0 to poll the button so you can control
the rate at which pos is updated.

Regards.

Nigel





On Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:14 AM, Nuri ERGINER [SMTP:nerginerspam_OUTspam@spam@SSM.GOV.TR]
wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC]: Label in macro problem. What's wrong?'
2001\07\05@174902 by Thomas N
picon face
Hi everyone,

I saw many people's code uses label in their macro.  But when I try to use
it, MPLAB gives me this error:  "Error[116]   C:\TEMP\MACRO.ASM 5 : Address
label duplicated or different in second pass (here)"

What's wrong with my code?  What do I have to do to get around this
"problem"?

Thank you in advance!
Thomas

; in my main.asm file

       list p=16F877
       errorlevel -302

       org 0x00
       goto start
       org 0x04
       goto start

       include p16f877.inc
       include "macro.asm"

start
       call_test       function1
       call_test       function2
loop
       goto    loop

;----------------------------------------------
function1
       nop
       return
;----------------------------------------------
function2
       nop
       return

       end
=============================================
; in my macro.asm file
call_test       macro   label
       goto    here
       nop
here
       call    label
       endm
_________________________________________________________________________
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2001\07\05@180612 by Nick Veys

flavicon
face
A macro is inserted every place you use it in the program... So your
"here" label is being duplicated.

nickKILLspamspamEraseMEveys.com | http://www.veys.com/nick


> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\05@182103 by myke predko

flavicon
face
Hi Thomas,

The problem is that the labels within the macro are not being declared as
"local".  "Local" is a directive which tells the macro assembler that this
label within the macro is only local to this macro and references to any
other labels with the same string should be ignored.

Using "local" try out this version of the macro:

call_test       macro   label
local here     ;  <-- "here" is now specific to inside macro
       goto    here
       nop
here
       call    label
       endm


{Original Message removed}

2001\07\05@185606 by Thomas N

picon face
Thank you for your help!  It solves the problem now!


{Quote hidden}

>{Original Message removed}

2001\07\05@210601 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I saw many people's code uses label in their macro.  But when I try to use
> it, MPLAB gives me this error:  "Error[116]   C:\TEMP\MACRO.ASM 5 :
Address
> label duplicated or different in second pass (here)"

You have to use the LOCAL directive.  See STD.INS.PAS at
http://www.embedinc.com/pic for many examples.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, RemoveMEolinKILLspamspamRemoveMEembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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'[OT]: What's wrong with this list (Please Read)'
2001\09\14@205144 by Michael Cook
flavicon
face
Hello all. I have been watching the piclist for a month or two now. I liked
it at first but have become more and more dissatisfied. At first posts
seemed to get ANSWERED. Interesting questions/ideas got the most replies.
Now more messages seem to be off topic than on. And when a [PIC] post gets
replied to, it's usually a flame war over the person's signature or some
random comment them made (i.e. "I have to go shave my hamsters with
toothpaste now."). A question about the press-n-peel film was recently
posted. The only replies I saw were to the signature. I, also, wanted to
know the answer to that poor soul's question. I realize there have been a
lot of world politics in the last week that have caused discussions, but I
can't take the idiocy and randomness anymore. I am hereby unsubscribing from
this list as it has done nothing but fill my e-mail box with junk. I have
asked maybe 3 questions, and got 1 reply total. That reply was, of course,
completely off topic. I will check the web site from now and then but until
this list gets a good moderator, this is goodbye from someone who liked this
list.

GET A CLUE PEOPLE.

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2001\09\14@210855 by James Newton. Admin 3

face picon face
Please read the list FAQ
http://www.piclist.com/listfaq
and learn to turn on and off channels.

Also, please don't expect all of us to immediately hop to a question during
a time when we are all upset and have other issues on our minds. The FAQ
covers what to do if your post doesn't get an answer. Anyway, that post did
get answers.

And finally, I'm NOT a moderator; good or bad. I don't get to see the posts
before they go to the list. And I wouldn't have time to forward them if I
did. And the list members do a darn fine job of keeping the right topic tag
on their posts and of answering questions.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamBeGonejamesnewtonKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\14@214238 by Jinx

face picon face
> toothpaste now."). A question about the press-n-peel film was
> recently posted. The only replies I saw were to the signature. I,
> also, wanted to know the answer to that poor soul's question.
> I realize there have been a

A search of the archives, AS SUGGESTED ONE DOES BEFORE
POSTING TO THE LIST, for "Press'n'peel" brings up 34 viewable
posts from just the past 2 years

http://www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/index.html

> GET A CLUE PEOPLE.

Have some patience person - this list is normally as dry as
toast. You've picked a particularly unique week to complain

(1) filter out topics you don't want
(2) look in the archives - home-made PCBs are discussed on
a regular basis. Which in fact they shouldn't be if the archives
were used as intended

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2001\09\15@024907 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
Right on, brother!

The [OT]: tag is totally abused. Things should only be posted to the list
that are interesting in a technical sense, regardless of the tag.

The use of tags just gives all the Chatty Cathies a green light to blab
endlessly, while persons such as myself scan the list int the hope there
will be something interesting posted someday soon.

Any criticism of the list is treated defensively or with outright hostility
by management or by the chatty ones.

This is the first post I've made to the list in months. I still scan the
list, and I reply to questions, but have only been replying by private
email because of the large amount of spam each post generates(as the list
is now harvested by usenet) and because of the afore-mentioned hostility.

I have zero interest in non-technical issues. The piclist was good when
there were no subject line tags, because good people would complain when
someone posted off-topic stuff, and it would drop off. Now the [OT]: tag
protects that crap. Unfortunately if someone wants to ask a question about
something like optics, they have to use the [OT]: tag. Too bad it doesn't
even register above the other noise, and many of the smart ones filter out
all [OT]: posts so they don't even see it.

Posting that optics question with a [PIC]: subject line will get it
noticed, but probably only by management or one of the henchmen.

Am I making my opinion clear enough for management to understand? The
piclist is for technical people. There are philosophy lists for that other
stuff.

Get rid of non-technical posts and the number of posts will be slashed to a
manageable number. Then there will be no need for subject line tags.
Problem solved. Piclist improved.

I'm now waiting for a slow-top to suggest the need for still more tags,
perhaps one to allow for posts relating to optics :-)

Please send all defensive or hostile replies to /dev/null or whatever the
Windows NT equivalent is :-)

Cheerful regards,

Bob Blick

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2001\09\15@090410 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
It seems to me that optics, press n peel, 120 ohm cat5, etc actually
should eb under the EE heading.

When is the last time you saw any interesting technical discussion in OT
that wouldn't fit under EE?  As you look through all the posts marked
OT, is there anything really very interesting to you?

When the split occured for the various tags, I was against it.  I'm
still against it, and much like you would rather have a single list with
pic and ee posts.  But since we can't get rid of those who want to chat
(and many of the most useful PIC people want to chat, so we shouldn't
try), then we may as well provide an outlet for their finger energy
which others can shut off.

Nearly /all/ of the messages on the recent tragedy have occurred in
either OT or without any tag.  It appears to me that one could turn off
the OT tag completely and not miss out on EE or PIC subjects.

Since it's not my list I have no control over how it's run, nor can I
control those who will chat.  While the list admins could vigorously
oppose those who don't stay on topic (EE, PIC, AVR), I feel it was good
for them to allow tame discussion (withou personal attacks) in the
'appropiate' channel.  Many people only subscribe to this list and this
is the only online community they can think of.  They are familiar with
the people, and trust us enough to share their feelings.  It is
important for communities, online of offline, to recognize that a
certian amount of discussion on such topics  really should take place
for a number of reasons.  It also give us a chance to get to know each
other in more terms than just 'Well, Adam's hobby is pic, and he's done
some home automation stuff...  I think...'  Which is important.  If it
is not important to some of us, then the ability to filter at the list
level has been given to us.

Like you I prefer to let the firehose full open, but recently I've split
the posts into their different folders and it has really crystallized
things for me,  everything in PIC aside form 3 or 4 posts in the last
week has not only been interestig, but on topic.

Lastly, this is barely the beginning of the school year.  Every summer
the list dies down a little, becomes a little more off topic, but it
always pics up at the end of summer (ok, summer for the /northern/
hemisphere) and you should find that OT will again take less than 1/5 of
the list bandwidth.

There is a point where the moderators should stop the discussion that's
currently going on,  but it may die out itself as those who are making
personal and flamable remarks are being removed, and those kind of
people are really the only ones that keep any off topic discussion going
on longer than a week.

I really appreciate your contribution to the piclist, Bob.  I would hate
to see you leave the list over this.  Hopefully you can be patient and
bear it - it will be business as usual very shortly.

-Adam

Bob Blick wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\15@120713 by James Newton. Admin 3

face picon face
Bob, someday I would like to be able to understand how your mind works....

...if you don't want off topic posts, WHY DON'T YOU TURN OFF THE [OT]
CHANNEL?

Here you are LISTENING to the [OT]'s and then bitching about them. It is
flabbergasting to me that you still have the [OT] topic turned on... Why?

Engineering subjects (including all the ones you mentioned) were posted
under [EE] which you could still get (or not as YOU choose).

Your apparent unreasoned hatred of me is unjustified and colors your
actions.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
EraseMEjamesnewton.....spamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\15@124734 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, James Newton. Admin 3 wrote:

> Bob, someday I would like to be able to understand how your mind works....

James,

What Bob is trying to say is that the [OT]: label is superfluous. This is
either the PICLIST or it is not. People like Andy Kunz chose to make it
not. People like Bob Blick want to keep it PIC focused. In an effort to
appease everyone, the concept of Manual Labling was imposed. Bob views
this as absolutely unnecessary. While Bob didn't make this suggestion (and
I don't wish to stuff words in his mouth), a more reasonable approach is
to create new lists to address the variety of subjects this one has grown
to emcompass.

Also, I don't think Bob hates you. He's a nice guy.

Scott

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2001\09\15@130205 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Scott Dattalo wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, James Newton. Admin 3 wrote:
>
>> Bob, someday I would like to be able to understand how your mind works....
>
>James,
>
>What Bob is trying to say is that the [OT]: label is superfluous. This is
>either the PICLIST or it is not. People like Andy Kunz chose to make it
>not. People like Bob Blick want to keep it PIC focused. In an effort to
>appease everyone, the concept of Manual Labling was imposed. Bob views
>this as absolutely unnecessary. While Bob didn't make this suggestion (and
>I don't wish to stuff words in his mouth), a more reasonable approach is
>to create new lists to address the variety of subjects this one has grown
>to emcompass.
>


You have all noticed that piclist is settling down already.

BTW, I spoke with Andy.K by email yesterday, and they are getting
along ok where he lives in NJ - a few miles west of NYC.

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2001\09\15@130823 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
>...if you don't want off topic posts, WHY DON'T YOU TURN OFF THE [OT]
>CHANNEL?

Then I miss posts about PCB fabrication, tools, etc.

>Engineering subjects (including all the ones you mentioned) were posted
>under [EE] which you could still get (or not as YOU choose).

Clearly they aren't and never will be. Whenever you force people to choose
from a small list there will be some that don't quite fit. Into [OT] they
go. Now someone will suggest adding more tags.

>Your apparent unreasoned hatred of me is unjustified and colors your
>actions.

I don't hate you. I hate what's happened to the piclist. It's grown in size
and mediocrity. Subject tagging is confusing and wasteful and makes people
who want a technical list drop the piclist like a hot potato. That guy who
left last night is a perfect example.  Wake up, smell the coffee, and
exercise your brain. Inspire us to greatness. This isn't a chat room.
Writing multipage instructions on the use of the piclist and subject tags
doesn't work either. The old piclist worked. It ebbed and flowed and good
people stayed.

Cheerful regards,

Bob Blick

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2001\09\15@133240 by James Newton. Admin 3

face picon face
Ok, Scott, who is going to supply the server and bandwidth to make a
separate PIC-OT-List?

Or do we have to unsubscibe anyone who posts off topic on the PIC only list?
Who is volunteering to police all off topic posts rather than just the few
people who loose there temper?

Andy started a PIC only list. If that is the solution, why aren't we all on
his list?

You should review the posts that Bob has made in the past...

...he has specifically said that he hates me.

And anybody who wants this shit for nothing job is welcomed to it.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamjamesnewtonspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\15@134035 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
Regardless of what we all feel and what our opinions are, we need to
express our gratitude to James and the other admins. It is truly a
thankless job, most of the time. James, I want to thank you especially for
the piclist.com site. With the sheer quantity of work you put in on the
piclist itself AND piclist.com, it's a wonder to me that you have any time
left for your family and job, let alone yourself.

Sean

At 10:30 AM 9/15/01 -0700, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\15@141410 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 01:39 PM 9/15/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Regardless of what we all feel and what our opinions are, we need to
>express our gratitude to James and the other admins. It is truly a
>thankless job, most of the time. James, I want to thank you especially for
>the piclist.com site. With the sheer quantity of work you put in on the
>piclist itself AND piclist.com, it's a wonder to me that you have any time
>left for your family and job, let alone yourself.

I agree, and really appreciate what James puts into this. He's a neat guy
and could probably find more rewarding things to do with his time.
(perish the thought)

"Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone"  -- Joni Mitchell

Best regards,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffSTOPspamspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.bluecollarlinux.com
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2001\09\15@181411 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
>Ok, Scott, who is going to supply the server and bandwidth to make a
>separate PIC-OT-List?

I guess that would be something the people who want to discuss
non-technical issues would worry about. The rest of us could relax and
enjoy a piclist that had valuable content.

>Or do we have to unsubscibe anyone who posts off topic on the PIC only list?
>Who is volunteering to police all off topic posts rather than just the few
>people who loose there temper?

The list took care of itself pretty well. It had the feeling of community.
Not the feeling of a police state. Remember, even in a police state you
can't prevent a one-time outburst.

>Andy started a PIC only list. If that is the solution, why aren't we all on
>his list?

gee, why did he feel it was neccessary to start another list :-)

>You should review the posts that Bob has made in the past...
>
>...he has specifically said that he hates me.

Yes, I have reviewed them. I see posts from you where you say I hate you. I
also got very pissed when YOU took a private email, trimmed it, and posted
it to the list. I don't hate you.

>And anybody who wants this shit for nothing job is welcomed to it.

Fishing for compliments, I'm sure you'll receive lots of emails telling you
what a great job you've done. One of the things I cited was the
defensiveness when it comes to any criticism.

When you decided to change the piclist by adding subject line tag
filtering, it was because the list was not perfect. I say the list is worse
now because people who could be valued contributors are checking in and
dropping out because of all the [OT] stuff. Making them jump through hoops
using filtering just makes them think the piclist is a badly-run
mailbox-filler. Which it is. There is no reason to give the name "piclist"
to endless [OT] ramblings. At least this email I'm writing is of an
administrative nature, but it's still boring.

If you decide to take a vote for dropping subject line filtering, I bet
those that vote say to keep it. Because most of the others just dropped out
of the piclist altogether, or simply don't care anymore. I'm in the "don't
care" category. There is almost nothing left of the piclist that is valuable.

Please read the email posted by Michael Cook last night. No, I'll paste it
here:
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2001\09\15@193052 by Wade Carpenter

picon face
Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the PicList (a few months), and so far I've been quite
happy with it.

I find most that unfortunately most of these "threads that never die" are
flame wars.  And it always comes down to blaming our friend who so
graciously hosts the list for all of us to use, share with and benefit from.
This is not acceptable.  Issues of a personal nature should be kept off the
list, and often they are not.  So then what?  Well, I see a message topic
ex. "Don't meddle".  After a few, I select the messages, I hit the "Mark
read" button, and I move on.

I would suggest that anyone who finds a similar issue, please do the same.

As far as the content filtering goes, it is also quite useful, especially if
I am going back later on to find something.  All I have to do is think what
I'm looking for and go to the write set of messages.

So please, if you plan to 'shout' at me as it were, keep it to e-mail.  I'll
be happy to receive your criticism there.

As far as this topic goes, I hope this is the last post!

Regards,

Wade

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2001\09\15@200208 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I just thought of an analogy-

Maintaining the piclist is like preparing steak.  You can trim the fat
beforehand, or you can allow others to trim the fat after.  Some fat is
obvious and easy to get to, this shouldn't be on the meat at all.  When
trimming that fat, though, it's best to cut close to the meat, but not
too close.  James would rather err on the side of being too permissive
and have a more open forum, than to trim too close and stifle any useful
(meaty) discussion.

Some fat is ingrained in the meat itself, and any fat left on the meat
when cooked serves to flavor and keep the meat juicy.

The EE channel was created for ALL off topic threads having /anything/
to do with electronics.  Those items showing up in the OT channel along
those lines are mismarked, and perhaps james and others could work to
shuttle those discussion into the channel so people (who are many) that
don't subscribe to OT will still see them and they'll get a wider response.

Really, those things you are describing that you feel you'd miss by
unsubscribing to OT should *not* be in OT.

James has made it possible for you to trim your own meat before being
cooked.  You'll still find some fat in there, but if you take out OT it
appears as though you'll miss so little that you care about that it's
not worth the time you spent discussing it.  You'll spend a lot of time,
as you indicate, with the OT posts if you choose to trim it after being
cooked.

Of course, the piclist isn't static and is subject to change.  While
it's a dictatorship, James and others try and run it according to
majority rule.  The majority of the list accepts the status quo, and is
happy with it.  The OT channel is explicity for the discussions that
have taken place recently.  This is currently the state of the piclist.
If you want it to change, you'll have to convince a lot of other list
members who feel the same way to speak up.  If they do, then I'm certian
changes will be made in that direction.

Unfortunately, your statement "Things should only be posted to the list
that are interesting in a technical sense, regardless of tag." is not
correct.  You can ask Jory, but pretty much your statement is only
correct when talking about every tag except OT and ADMIN.

If you want that kind of list, you should unsubscribe, at minimum, OT.
/Then/ your statement would be correct for the large slice of the list
that is sent to you.

If it helps you at all, then you can think of the piclist as three
separate lists.  You are officially subscribed to 6 lists:  PIC, EE,
AVR, SX, OT, ADMIN.

The interface is not intuitive or normal for subscribing, unsubscribing
and posting to the various lists, but it is useable and works for every
mailreader.  Furthermore MIT is giving us the tremendous bandwidth for
this one apparent, but subdivided list.  Perhaps it would be better to
think of it as a newsgroup, such as piclist.pic, piclist.ee,
piclist.avr, piclist.sx, piclist.ot, and piclist.admin.

Anyway.  I'm sure you understand all this.  Rereading your posts it
appears as though you're holding your position in more of an academic
way.  You understand the list should be one way, but it's not.  You
understand that OT sometimes has technically interesting threads, but it
should not.  It is too bad you haven't yet taken a more active part in
the list-I can see how you could change the course it has taken if you
did so.

-Adam

-Adam

Bob Blick wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\09\15@201216 by Jinx

face picon face
> The rest of us could relax and enjoy a piclist that had valuable content.

Relax is right. There have been topics lately that you could have
commented about but didn't bother to

(1) a request for help with an inductive power take-off from an axle.
You have such a thing as part of your propellor clock pages

(2) a moving sign using a LED matrix, also at your site

(3) Stirling engine

(4) other general questions about PICs. I realise your site
hasn't changed for several years, but you must have been
doing something

If you're so concerned about the S/N ratio, why not start posting
about PICs and PICs only and redress the balance

>Who is volunteering to police all off topic posts rather than just
> the few people who loose there temper?

Sounds like you are

> The list took care of itself pretty well.

And it does now

> It had the feeling of community.

And it does now

> Not the feeling of a police state.

What ?

> >Andy started a PIC only list. If that is the solution, why aren't we
> all on his list?
>
> gee, why did he feel it was neccessary to start another list :-)

Are you on AK's list ? Are you ? Why not start your own and
then you can run it the way YOU want it run. The piclist is not
mandatory

> >And anybody who wants this shit for nothing job is welcomed to it.
>
> Fishing for compliments,

And also offering you the chance to put your money where
your mouth is. Gone on, do it, dare ya

> I'm sure you'll receive lots of emails telling you
> what a great job you've done. One of the things I cited was the
> defensiveness when it comes to any criticism.

So you won't be addressing any of this mail then ?

> When you decided to change the piclist by adding subject
> line tag filtering, it was because the list was not perfect. I
> say the list is worse now because people who could be
> valued contributors are checking in and dropping out
> because of all the [OT] stuff.

How do you know ? I don't recall a flood of posts citing anguish
about the content of the list. I can tell there are some very busy
professionals who still find time to contribute

> Making them jump through hoops using filtering just makes
> them think the piclist is a badly-run mailbox-filler

Oh, mind-reader too. Do you call a few clicks "jumping through
hoops" ?

> Which it is.

Yes, so badly-run the membership keeps increasing. But as
you think, they're probably just drongos joining anyway

> There is no reason to give the name "piclist" to endless [OT]
> ramblings. At least this email I'm writing is of an administrative
> nature, but it's still boring

The piclist is what people make it. Your mail is not boring,
repetitive maybe

> If you decide to take a vote for dropping subject line filtering,
> I bet those that vote say to keep it. Because most of the others
> just dropped out of the piclist altogether, or simply don't care
> anymore.

Rubbish

> I'm in the "don't care" category. There is almost nothing left of
> the piclist that is valuable.

So why are you still here ? I don't remember a technical post
from you for a very long time, just complaining. As inexperienced
as I am sometimes, at least I have a go. I get my hands dirty
with other peoples problems and requests

> Please read the email posted by Michael Cook last night. No,
> I'll paste it here:

Michael Cook's post is so wrong it's not funny. Unfortunately he's
unsubscribbled (yeah, like hell he did) so he won't be reading this

> > Hello all. I have been watching the piclist for a month or two now. I
> > liked it at first but have become more and more dissatisfied. At
> > first posts seemed to get ANSWERED. Interesting questions/ideas
> > got the most replies. Now more messages seem to be off topic than
> > on.

"at first posts seemed to get ANSWERED". Interesting statement.
I see no trend to not answering queries. Oh yes, a month out of a
list with 8 years postings is really representative. Especially a
month with possibly the most singular news item for decades
that affects the vast majority of the list members, who happen
to be in the US

> And when a [PIC] post gets replied to, it's usually a flame war
> over the person's signature or some random comment them
> made (i.e. "I have to go shave my hamsters with toothpaste now.").

I don't even know where to start with that. "usually" ? Bollocks

> A question about the press-n-peel film was recently posted. The
> only replies I saw were to the signature.

There were 9 replies about P'n'P that I counted, a couple of
those were a short discussion about a signature line. 7 were
specifically about P'n'P. Sorry to put facts in the way of an
argument mate (oh, forgot, he's not here anymore)

The very first post after Benedicic's request

> It doesn't work well on fine traces, they tend to disappear. I'm
> not a big fan of these but if you get stuck using them, preheat
> the copper board before applying the PressnPeel stuff. Then
> go over it carefully with a resist pen. And after its all done swear
> to yourself you will never do it this way again ;-]

> I, also, wanted to know the answer to that poor soul's question.

Pity he didn't stick around OR LOOK IN THE #$%^& ARCHIVES

> I realize there have been a lot of world politics in the last week
> that have caused discussions, but can't take the idiocy and
> randomness anymore. I am hereby unsubscribing from this list
> as it has done nothing but fill my e-mail box with junk.

No, you let it get filled. Filter. Piece of cake

Easy - complain to admin directly asking that this topic is
out-of-hand. Or is MC another sit back and relax kinda guy,
waiting for someone else to do something ?

> I have asked maybe 3 questions, and got 1 reply total. That
> reply was, of course, completely off topic. I will check the web
> site from now and then but until this list gets a good moderator,
> this is goodbye from someone who liked this list.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

Chatty Kathy #1719A

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2001\09\15@205019 by Nick Taylor

flavicon
face
This controversy over OT posts has used almost as much bandwidth as
the OT posts!  And, it has generated many rude flames!

The attack on the US and the the western world's response may very
well be the most significant single event in most of our lives.  It
will change how we and our descendants live.

This is the one list that has many very intelligent members from
around the world ... most of whom are NOT political fanatics with
an ax to grind.  An extremely valuable resource.  As an example
see Wouter van Ooijen's three posts from about 1830Z 15 Sept.
Please don't continue bickering over "what's wrong with this list".
Just delete what you don't want to read.

Regards to all,
  -Nick T.

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2001\09\16@002528 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Jinx wrote:

> Michael Cook's post is so wrong it's not funny. Unfortunately he's
> unsubscribbled (yeah, like hell he did) so he won't be reading this

Actually he did.  Odd, though...  I would have thought someone technical
enough to be subscribed to the PIClist would at least be competent enough
to figure out how to filter email, especially given a well-defined string
to look for.  It's such a trivial task, even if the absurdly simple
listserv commands are too complex anyone should be able to figure it out.
I can do it with Procmail, Outlook, you name it...

Amazing someone who can write assembly code for a PIC can't figure that
out.  And frankly, if the shoe fits, wear it -- I wasn't just talking
about the dear departed Mr. Cook.  Not you, Jinx...

Dale
--
Hallo, this is Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux as Leennuks.
Hallo, this is Bill Gates and I pronounce 'crap' as 'Windows'.

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2001\09\16@011302 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
Jinx, Adam, etc.

I imagine Bob will be unsubscribing in a few hours - just like Tjaart did,
Andy Warren did, I did, and several other active posters from the past...
Andy and I have rejoined, but not with the the same intensity.

I'm subscribed to 6 or 7 lists, but not one of them discussed the WTC. In
fact none of the other lists discuss anything off topic. Often posters
apologize with, "I'm sorry if this is off topic, but ...". And usually
it's related enough to be pertainent. The difference between the PIC list
and other lists is the tone. Other lists stay focused on their themes.
The PIC list is out of control. It has nothing to do with James Newton.
The PIC list was out of control before James even joined. Could James
bring it under control? Perhaps.

However, each time we seriously discuss instituting "controls" to keep the
PIC list focused on Microchip PIC microcontrollers, the consensus is that
we should allow all of the EE/application side as well. Russel's recent
SMPS thread is perfect example of the kind of thread that is not
specifically PIC related, but is invaluable to those designing circuits
incorporating PICs. The Venutian finger thread a few years ago delved into
number theory. To many, the concept was alien (no pun intended) and they
were upset. However, those who saw the connection to number theory were
entertained and educated and are probably better PIC programmers now. That
was important thread too. The infamous Cow Tipping thread was totally
inappropriate.

I don't want James to be put in a position of having to choose what's an
appropriate post. He's over worked as it is. But I do agree with Bob that
the OT thing has lead to excessive abuse of PIC list posts. I didn't
realize until tonight that I could have the Server filter the [OT]: posts
for me! But now that I know that, I'm still not going to change the way
I'm subscribed. Every now and then there is a topic discussed under [OT]:
that's of interest. I suspect most people are like myself in that regard.


-----

Jinx, Do you realize that Bob has been /.'d? Do you realize that he get's
dozens of messages a day about the stuff on his pages? Do you realize that
he doesn't even have time to post the plans for his conversion kit that
transforms a Microwave oven into a 1500 Watt RF transmitter? He simply
doesn't have time to answer - or even read - all of the posts on the PIC
list. He's probably like me and has a hardened callus on his finger from
pressing the delete key too many times! But when Bob does have the time to
post, it's something definitely worth reading. That's why I read this
thread to begin with; there are certain posters I'll take the time to read
reagardless of the subject line.

Regards,
Scott

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2001\09\16@011320 by Jinx

face picon face
> Dale

Thank you Dale. And may I re-iterate my previous post in
vanilla, coincidentally words of one syllable

"Ask not what your list can do for you, ask what you can do
for your list"

I have nothing further to say on the subject - compared with
things going on in my private life, coping on a bicycle with
drivers that have send-4-box-tops licences, and an 18 hour
workday, complainers come a very poor 57th on the list

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2001\09\16@020003 by Russell McMahon

picon face
> And anybody who wants this shit for nothing job is welcomed to it.


James,


1.    No thankyou !!!!

2.    Hang in there.
Rough times and too many people being (mostly understandably) grumpy.
You know we appreciate your efforts James.
Thanks again for keeping this "community" going.


While I'm here - presumably I'm one of Bob's Chatty-Cathies :-) so I might
as well be a "slow-top" as well (never met the term but it seems self
evocative) and suggest ONE more tag.

How about (shudder) [TECHO]: or [TECH]: (I prefer Techo - it's so terribly
Kitsch / Nerd :-)).

This is for technological issues which are not colour of the week / NZ sheep
head count / WTC disaster etc al.
It would include Bob's "optics" and most of my occasional OT posts on eg
Stirling engines, suspension bridges, Helium fusion. rocketry etc (maybe).
ie not electronic but liable to be of technical interest to a techno-freak
(like yours truly).



           Russell McMahon

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2001\09\16@030317 by David Lions

flavicon
face
I have been reading since mid 1996.  His was one of the best critical posts
ever.  His points were (yes he actually said something):

* He's only been here "for a month or two", and in this time he's noticed...
* Most chance to get a reply if it's interesting
* You replied but didn't *answer the question*, and instead posted something
pedantic and ridiculous ( in response to "some random comment" or their
email signature)
* He gave an example to support his argument (the press-n-peel thread)
* He recognized that some events such as the WTC are going to cause a lot of
traffic, but most of it is "idiocy and randomness"
* He wants a new moderator and people to get a clue

With the exception of the last comment everything he said was spot on (James
you're doing fine, happy families, it's all good :).

Thanks to Scott Dattalo who has experience of other lists (which I don't,
and I was wondering if this one is an exception, which apparently it is).
Andrew Warren still reads and posts, BTW.

My own pet hates are:
* Sorting through personal posts meant for 2 or 3 people on a list of 1200
* Hiding behind the OT tag when you know very well it is way beyond OT
* Trying to take the moral high ground as though the rest of us were at
fault or ignorant
* People that always have to have the last word
* Hit-and-run attacks like (sorry for personal example) Jinx's last post
* Posting a page of apologies to the effect of "the page i'm about to post
may be considered full of crap", then posting it anyway?

There are 1200 other subscribers who use their discretion.  We don't
complain because it's a big list and you have to expect some noise.  But
every now and then please consider it may be better to SHUT UP! ;)  Then you
wouldn't get "whingers" like us!

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2001\09\16@052532 by Jinx

face picon face
I'll respond just so you know I wasn't intending to hit-and-run.
No I didn't take that personally, no worries. If you can tell me
that anything I said is not factual or an opinion that's so wild
of the mark I will put my hands up and apologise unreservedly.
I've no wish to cause any ruffles but I felt Bob Blick's criticisms
deserved a response

> * Most chance to get a reply if it's interesting

True, but have you considered that there are times when
the list simply doesn't know ? For example, I've asked about
RFID a few times and never had a single reply at all. But I
didn't spit the dummy. (and as an aside I've asked Microchip
directly for information further to the datasheets and a quote
on 2.8 million chips. That was two months and I'm still waiting
for a reply, despite asking 3 times for one. So I'm going with
Atmel, they fell over themselves trying to help)

> * You replied but didn't *answer the question*, and instead
> posted something pedantic and ridiculous ( in response to
> "some random comment" or their email signature)

> * He gave an example to support his argument (the press-
> n-peel thread)

But like I said, that was 2 out of 9 replies. And there are
the archives (sigh)

> * He recognized that some events such as the WTC are going
> to cause a lot of traffic, but most of it is "idiocy and randomness"

Yes, I agree, and will step forward guiltily as a regular OTer.
Most of this past week's OT posts I have not read because of
the tone and I'm not swept up in patriotic fervour. However, I
do consider my OTs before I post them, hopefully they have
some basis in EE, for example Mr Hawking or the moon
landings hoax. There is life beyond PICs, but I do appreciate
the sentiment about OT abusage. OTOH I do pitch in and
help where I can. Many others do not (perhaps 95% of the
2000+ members, not 1200 btw), and I only assume they are
not interested enough in PICs to contribute or are there just
to take take take. If 2000+ people are using PICs the list
should be inundated with projects, code, queries, problems,
suggestions, tips. It isn't

> Thanks to Scott Dattalo who has experience of other lists
> (which I don't, and I was wondering if this one is an exception,
> which apparently it is).

As technical groups go, it is rather "free-flowing". But the PIC
is not just an engineers tool. It attracts (and is promoted to)
hobbyists, tinkerers and professionals alike. This is going
to cause chat problems because of the diverse range of
people that use it. Personally, I'm a jackdaw. I will try anything
anywhere anytime and talk to anyone on any level as my
competence allows

> My own pet hates are:
> * Sorting through personal posts meant for 2 or 3 people on
> a list of 1200

Guilty - can't disagree

> * Hiding behind the OT tag when you know very well it is
> way beyond OT

Yes, kinda agree. Some threads do wander off (which is
why they're called threads) but usually come back to where
they started. Introducing a new topic as completely OT
with no EE content at all is not desirable. I expect I've done
it once or twice, I hope no more than that

> * Trying to take the moral high ground as though the rest of
> us were at fault or ignorant

How do you mean ?

> * People that always have to have the last word
> * Hit-and-run attacks like (sorry for personal example)
> Jinx's last post

No offence taken. I merely thought I said what I had to say.
Quite happy to debate the points but I can't see my position
changing that much

> There are 1200 other subscribers who use their discretion.
> We don't complain because it's a big list and you have to
> expect some noise.  But every now and then please consider
> it may be better to SHUT UP! ;)  Then you wouldn't get
> "whingers" like us!

I for one will be more considerate. You aren't a whinger, just
expressing your opinion. But I'd ask you this - if OTs dropped
markedly, would there be a corresponding rise in PIC posts ?
I suspect not

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'[PICLIST] new rules req'ed [OT]: What's wrong with'
2001\09\16@061512 by Dmitry Kiryashov

flavicon
face
Hi James.  I think it's time to change rules. I have few suggestions.

All people who post spam should be warned first. 2nd step is tempora-
-rily disable them from posting if warning doesn't work.  Restricted
person cannot post more then two messages a day and every message is
no more than 10 lines.  Every restricted person message that doesn't
obey  this rule  is simply rejected from posting. I think week is ok
to recover that person for posting again. Actually I think we should
restrict message sizes for anybody, there is no reason to attach big
files  even  for regular  members,  simple link to web or ftp can be
posted. Lets say no more than 10Kbytes in one message.  This is huge
size for text information.

There is no reason either to quote all original text and write couple
of own comments on the top or bottom.  This  should be  classified as
spam.  Any  messages  that some person  just replied  like "I agreed"
without giving any useful info should be classified as spam too.

If warnings don't work several times person should be removed.

All newcomers should have restricted ability to post. i.e. few messa-
-ges a day no longer than 10 lines of text for instance. If somebody
really interested  to get  an answer and he/she already did searched
through  internet  for answers  he/she will be able to briefly ask a
question.  If person  doesn't understand  what he/she is looking for
there is no reason for post at all.  One week is enough time to give
an access to newcomer to be regular member.

Bob and Scott are right, this is technical list, I haven't left it
yet but I cannot read it already because of amount of spam flowing
through.. I'm loosing bright topics in that mess..

I don't like a special TAGs in subject either. I do not post because
of them too.

No political stuff,  no religious stuff.  We are all sorry about last
tragedy and I'm living close to twins but PICLIST isn't a right place
to discuss a questions like that.  This is technical list,  it is not
a chat, people contributed money to it to discuss and solve technical
questions, to share good ideas.  What a "nice idea" afterall to flood
it with all that information that TV is "supplying" us more than enough.

No more multiple tag lines on the bottom. Just one is ok, with brief
info about web site or telephone or any other contacts but no pseudo
graphics, no huge pictures and drawings attached.

Somebody else probably can correct me or put couple more ideas.


WBR Dmitry.

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2001\09\16@062643 by Justin Fielding

flavicon
face
I think there should be no OT posts allowed.  I like this list as a
PIC/Electronics list and it proves both interesting and informative but as
an OT list it sucks, maybe you guys who like discussing OT politics should
join the yahoogroups politics group?  It certainly has some better, less
emotionally driven discussions.

Justin.

{Original Message removed}

'[OT]: What's wrong with this list (Please Read)'
2001\09\16@084648 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
       To our dear /dev/null

>I have zero interest in non-technical issues. The piclist was good when
>there were no subject line tags, because good people would complain when
>someone posted off-topic stuff, and it would drop off. Now the [OT]: tag
>protects that crap. Unfortunately if someone wants to ask a question about
>something like optics, they have to use the [OT]: tag. Too bad it doesn't
>even register above the other noise, and many of the smart ones filter out
>all [OT]: posts so they don't even see it.

       So filter off the [OT]: tag, and you are back in business ;o)


---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

Alexandre Souza
@spam@taito.....spamspamterra.com.br
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/pinball/

---8<---Corte aqui---8<----

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2001\09\16@105913 by James Newton. Admin 3

face picon face
I still totally fail to understand why the solution for people like you and
Bob isn't just to turn off the [OT]: channel. If you would just do that, you
would never even be aware that there were any of this B.S. on the list.

Do you understand that the list server will just not send you posts with the
[OT]: tag? It is NOT that you can filter them with your email client; in
fact the list server never sends you that email.

In what way is that any different than if that post had never been sent?
Some "jerk" can send an off topic post to the PICList and you don't get it
and
I don't have to un-subscribe him. Please help me understand what is wrong
with that.

How is that any different than a PICList that doesn't allow off topic posts?

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamjamesnewton.....spam.....piclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\09\16@112027 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
James, his answer, as I understand it, is that there is content in the OT
list that he DOES want to read.

I for one find it very surprising that some people here don't know how to
use a delete button and don't know how to use a threaded email client. Being
heavy into newsgroups myself there is a lot more off topic stuff (signal to
noise ratio is much worse) in the average newsgroup then there usually is
here (the circumstances of Sept. 11 I for one believe deserve a certain
extra degree of latitude).

Perhaps I am being harsh but I often don't care about certain subjects on
this list, and I don't find it that difficult to simply delete them based on
title. I have been reading this list for longer then I can remember and it
has been very useful and educational to me, and in it's current state I find
more use out of it then I did before. About the ONLY thing I can complain
about is the necessity of that blasted colon on the end of the topic tag! :)
But I understand why that is necessary (and out of your control).

I for one would like to take this oportunity to personally thank you and all
others that make this listserv possible. TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

'[PICLIST] new rules req'ed [OT]: What's wrong with'
2001\09\16@123016 by todd baltes

picon face
Hi james, I like the [OT]: tags  they provide a place
for subjects that don't fit the more specific tags.
The [OT]: mail can be filtered out for those that
don't want it.

BUT the rules need to prevent the use of   Re:  since
this over rides the tag filter.  Can all posts that
begin with Re: be rejected?

Yes i did use the Re: tag i just complained about,
sorry.

todd

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http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

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'[OT]: What's wrong with this list (Please Read)'
2001\09\16@130912 by James Newton. Admin 3

face picon face
So... let me get this straight... we don't want [OT]: posts, but we won't
drop the [OT]: channel because we might miss something?

Am I the only person who doesn't get that?

And yes, the colon is a major pain...

...but over all its just 5 or 6 keystrokes. Even so, I just heard from one
of the most brilliant PIC programmers in the world that he won't post to the
list anymore because of the need for those.

I can't do this anymore. It's running my life. I know it's my problem... I'm
over-reacting and letting it get to me, but I've been mean to my family this
weekend, and I'm so hurt by all the criticism of the best solution I could
find to the problem that I just can't bear to keep looking for a better
solution. I need to concentrate on my real family and help them through this
war. I also have other exciting new projects that I need to be spending my
time on.

I'll keep maintaining the piclist.com server, site and the archive, and
working on new tools (mostly parts search and free ecommerce stuff) for the
site, but I'm going to take a vacation from admining this list. Mark, Mike
and Dale are more than capable of running this list as they see fit. I'll
ask their permission to return if I find I miss it to much. <GRIN> Maybe if
you bug them enough, they will give some of the "people who know better how
to run the list" a chance to experiment on all of you.

I'm egotistical enough to assume that some people will miss me, so please
don't bother to say so.

Bye for now. Best of luck to all through the coming war. Stay in touch if
you are willing to help with more than just suggestions of what I "should
do".

James Newton, (former) PICList Admin #3
jamesnewton.....spampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Herbert Graf <KILLspammailinglistspam_OUTspamFARCITE.NET>
To: <spam_OUTPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 08:21
Subject: Re: [OT]: What's wrong with this list (Please Read)


James, his answer, as I understand it, is that there is content in the OT
list that he DOES want to read.
<SNIP>

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2001\09\16@160806 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

picon face
> I'm egotistical enough to assume that some people will miss me, so please
> don't bother to say so.

Sorry to see you go. I hope it is temporarily. I wonder why the people that
have brilliant solutions don't implement those themselves? Yahoo has a
simple and free service to start your own list. If your idea is realy that
much better than the current situation everyone will surely follow you.

Wouter van Ooijen

Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler for PIC uC's:  http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal

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2001\09\16@185409 by Dmitry Kiryashov

flavicon
face
Hi James.

> ...but over all its just 5 or 6 keystrokes. Even so, I just heard
> from one of the most brilliant PIC programmers in the world that
> he won't post to the list anymore because of the need for those.

If you mean that was me I would precisely explain my current thoughts to
eliminate any misunderstanding. I don't have any intentions either to
criticize you as PICLIST admin or to make any provocative suggestions.
But list is not under control... I think there is no hurry, especially
taking in mind current situation with attacks and following people
reactions. I hope people will stay cool and really consider the lessons
of history first, old methods don't work anymore. Returning to PICLIST
I think it is necessary to bring very strong rules, message size, num-
-ber of messages per day, spam. I think it is not necessary to premo-
-derate list but it is enough to temporary restrict those who broke the
rules. I like PICLIST, I would like to bring it back to technical state
as it was mostly on the beginning.

James I'm really apologize if my words hurted you somehow and I will do
so in PICLIST as well.I'm just tired of all these [OT]: crap in PICLIST.
Most of them don't carry any sense anymore like they did initially.
I really can't just read it, tons of mess to find a cute idea or ques-
-tion. Probably I should learn all this internet related things to help
you somehow to manage this monster. Let's take some time I'll try to
help you not just by giving a suggestions but more in practice.

I really respect you for all titanic work you've done and contribute to
piclist. Hope your vacation from piclist administrating will be not as
long as 255 years. ;)

WBR Dmitry.

PS.

My vacation has been ruined by sep-11 because I was planning to fly to
Cyprus, and now it is very close to region that many people would like
to consider as a target, I can't put my family under additional risk...

PPS.

I really hope we all will stay calm and will find a way how to keep
things straight and under control, without wild emotions.

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2001\09\17@104643 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face
Sorry to see James go from burnout.  His steady hand on the tiller will be
missed.

Personnally, I like the PIClist just as it is, warts, off-topic posts,
flames,  jerks, geniuses and all.  The PIClist is THE most valuable
technical resource I have, bar none, and also a community.  Finding out
immediately  from somebody in New Zealand that the lights didn't go out on
midnight Jan 1st 2000 ranks up there with finding out how to handle pointers
in C for me.  I learn something here every day, not necessarily related to
electronics.

Membership in Groups like this always waxes and wains.  I'm here for the
long haul!  I WILL reduce the amount of [OT]: chatty cathie stuff I post, in
deference to those who hate it, because I am among the [OT] criminals.  Now
to answer some newbie questions.....


--Lawrence Lile

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2001\09\17@123315 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Sorry to see James go from burnout.
>His steady hand on the tiller will be missed.

Count me in on that comment as well.

I also like the list the way it is. The tag system makes sense in its usage,
and helps to prioritise what I read first. As to how much traffic is OT,
well I did not keep count of the number of messages with the subject of
"tragedy" I skipped over, along with others that were obviously related. (In
a moment of dark humour seeing the list of messages when I opened my mail
the following morning had me thinking of a certain song by the BeeGees)

While I appreciate everyone has a right to express their opinion, I do not
need to read it. I'm in the fortunate position of having constant connection
to the Internet and it doesn't cost me a bean, so the message count is not a
problem. I do get a small number of useful items out of the OT stuff, so I
do download it. The switch is there if people do not find it useful, and
have a download cost they wish they did not have to pay.

Hence my vote (if anyone is counting) is to keep the tags, and the list the
way it is.

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2001\09\17@131051 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Jim, I've been away last week for obvious reasons and I can't believe
what I've come back to... As another one who has been here for years, I'd
recommend leaving things as-is and letting the `dust settle'... It was hard
enough to get Andy, Scott, Bob, and others, to come back. Changing things
again will most probably do more harm than any amount of `OT' messages... I
have no doubt that there is a large `silent majority' that is much more
tolerant of OT messages during these times of crisis. I can't believe we are
even having this discussion...

  As has been demonstrated time after time, the value of this list lies in
it's expertise from around the world. Given the variety of cultures, we have
done an amazingly good job of regulating ourselves. Even if this list was
restricted to engineers from Alabama who have to be members of the IEEE, and
design PIC applications for cotton gins, there would still be OT messages,
especially in such a time of crisis...

  Finally, and this isn't said often enough, thanks for your hard work on
this list and elsewhere. I really appreciate it.

  - Tom






------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2001\09\17@131404 by Quentin

flavicon
face
Guess I have to throw in my "Me too" with Lawrence and Alan B.
This community is my kinda community. The people on this list has a
broad range of interest and they are not scared to discuss it. Yes, we
have the odd guy who are looking to pick a fight, but there are also
people here who will stand by in what they believe in.
This list was the only one I belong to that took the recent tragedy head
on. All the other lists were only full of condolences.
And then there is the technical and science knowledge of this list.
Sometimes I just sit back and go "Phew!" at what some of the people here
come up with.

As far as the amount of posts go. I've learned on how to scan the
headings very quickly and read only those that interests me.

Keep the tags and the list as it is. I agree, drop the personal
(attacks), religion and political posts and let a thread die in peace.

Quentin

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'[OT]: What\'s wrong with this list (Please Read)'
2001\09\17@131750 by dale

flavicon
face
> I also like the list the way it is. The tag system makes sense in its usage,
> and helps to prioritise what I read first.

I like it too...  how shall I put this?  I'm not trying to discourage anyone from posting OT as was done in the past, just as long as people stay off religion and politics (and similar flame bait and trolling) at least for a while.  I think a manageable (read smallish) number of OT pests - er, posts - keeps things interesting.

> Hence my vote (if anyone is counting) is to keep the tags, and the list the
> way it is.

Noted. (though I'm not exactly counting yet)

Dale
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On my desk I have a workstation...

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'[OT]: What's wrong with data radio links ?'
2001\09\23@184034 by David Huisman

flavicon
face
Hi,

I am conducting a small survey to identify the biggest problems associated
with low power data radio links.

I am wanting to know ..

What is the biggest problem encountered with the devices themselves and
also, the biggest problem encountered when trying to source them.

Thanks for your comments

Best Regards

David Huisman

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2001\09\25@152712 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> What is the biggest problem encountered with the devices themselves and
> also, the biggest problem encountered when trying to source them.

1. Price. Some importers like to mark up products in ways I prefer not to
describe. Here a SIPP module and a keyfob tx are sold for the equivalent
of $100 (they list for ~$30 elsewhere if I am not wrong). Prevent this by
making sure that advertisements include the price and emphasize easy
delivery to wherever your clients are.

2. The lack of a well known protocol and modulation technique that can be
used as a 'plug in' with minimum effort. Everyone roll their own and
reinvent hot water and the wheel every time. Many times the water is not
so hot and the wheel is not so round. There were several relevant threads
on this list in the past imho.

$0.02,

Peter

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2001\09\25@155710 by Douglas Butler

flavicon
face
Every RF link I have used has had lots of spurious bits that have to be
filtered out with the comms protocol.  They may look good on the bench
but have much more noise in the field, or vise versa.  They may go nuts
near automobiles or microwave ovens or computers.  It is too hard to be
sure they will work in a customer's environment.

My $.02

Sherpa Doug

> {Original Message removed}


'[PIC]: What's wrong with the list?'
2001\12\01@160445 by jim
picon face
So far today, I have received about 12 emails from the PICLIST.  Yesterday, it was about 35 or so.
In the past, a typical day ushered in about 60-80 before noon, and about that same number after noon.
And the weekends were only slightly less.  Is there a problem somewhere with the list?  Or are people just not talking as much anymore.   Surely the PICLIST hasn't said everything there is to say and there's
nothing left to talk about.  There's not even the usual emails about the OT items that are discussed
ad nauseam.   Where are the good old days where there were many topics being discussed at once, and all of them very interesting?   Oh well, talk to you all later.   Maybe.....


                                                                                               Regards,

                                                                                                   Jim

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2001\12\01@163234 by Attila Muhi

flavicon
face
Hi !

I have also noticed that. Must be some problems ?

Regards

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: jim <KILLspamjamespspamTakeThisOuTINTERTEX.NET>
Till: TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: den 1 december 2001 22:16
Ämne: [PIC]: What's wrong with the list?


So far today, I have received about 12 emails from the PICLIST.  Yesterday, it was about 35 or so.
In the past, a typical day ushered in about 60-80 before noon, and about that same number after noon.
And the weekends were only slightly less.  Is there a problem somewhere with the list?  Or are people just not talking as much anymore.   Surely the PICLIST hasn't said everything there is to say and there's
nothing left to talk about.  There's not even the usual emails about the OT items that are discussed
ad nauseam.   Where are the good old days where there were many topics being discussed at once, and all of them very interesting?   Oh well, talk to you all later.   Maybe.....


                                                                                               Regards,

                                                                                                   Jim

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2001\12\02@134726 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
I think it's just low traffic.  I've noticed it's dropped way off too...
but the list server seems to be working fine.

Dale
--
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curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."
         - Arnold Edinborough


On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, jim wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\02@143700 by purpen

flavicon
face
Its probably that lots of people are busy with projects.

I find that the period between September and January are my busy periods.
Everyone wants stuff ready for the Q1 releases. :)

Purpen

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'[PIC]: What is wrong with this program??'
2001\12\19@090156 by Milan Pavlica (YU7AEC)

flavicon
face
part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 2425 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=koi8-r (decoded quoted-printable)

Hello!
I am going to build a simple PIC controlled electronics for opening gate
on garage.
Using PIC16F84 @4MHZ
Idea is that:
With IR TV remote control i am sending impulses to SFH506, he send
impulses to PIC, he will start first relay for opening - this relay
starting one contactor, which now will hold it self until gate is opened

Also, when i want to close, again i am sending impulses, but now second
relay will act. I am using (as outs) simple NPN transistor which drive
small 12V relay with only R in base - no PulUp or PullDown
Problem is that when i start PIC, he start to open-close respectively
first ans second relay....
What is problem??
THANKS!
p.s. I am using PBP compiler

'***DEFINITION OF I/O PORTS

   TRISB.0=1                   ' PORTB0 je input
   TRISB.4=0                   ' PORTB4 je output
   TRISB.5=0                   ' PORTB5 je output

'***DEFINIŅION OF VARIABLES

   GATE_IS_UP VAR BYTE            ' Show us that gate is up
   GATE_IS_DOWN VAR BYTE          ' Show us that gate is down
   SENZOR VAR PORTB.0          ' Define PORTB0 as SENZOR
   RELAY_OPEN VAR PORTB.4      ' Define PORTB4 - relay for opening UP
   RELAY_CLOSE VAR PORTB.5     ' Define PORTB5 - relay for closing DOWN

'***MAIN PROGRAM


FIRST_CONDITION:
            PauseUs 35
            IF SENZOR = 0 Then  ' If there is 0 on senzor
            GoTo SECOND_CONDITION:   ' Go on Second_condition
            Else
            GoTo FIRST_CONDITION
            EndIF

SECOND_CONDITION:
            PauseUs 35          ' Wait for impulses
            IF SENZOR = 1 Then  ' If there is 1 on senzor
            GoTo THIRD_CONDITION
            Else
            GoTo FIRST_CONDITION
            EndIF

THIRD_CONDITION:
            PauseUs 35
            IF SENZOR = 0 Then
            GoTo GATE_DOWN
            Else
            GoTo FIRST_CONDITION
            EndIF

GATE_DOWN:
            IF Gate_Is_Down = 1 TheN
           GoTo GATE_UP
  Else
           RELAY_CLOSE = 1
           Pause 1500
           RELAY_CLOSE = 0
           Pause 1000
           Gate_Is_Down = 1
           Gate_Is_Up = 0
           GoTo FIRST_CONDITION
           EndIF
GATE_UP:
           Gate_Is_Down = 0
           RELAY_OPEN = 1
           Pause 1500
           RELAY_OPEN = 0
           Gate_is_Up = 1
           GoTo FIRST_CONDITION
'***END OF PROGRAM



part 2 201 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=koi8-r;
(decoded 7bit)

begin:vcard
n:Pavlica;Milan
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:SuperSonic Systems
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:spamBeGonempavlicaspamBeGonespam@spam@ptt.yu
title:Chief
fn:Milan Pavlica
end:vcard


part 3 144 bytes
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2001\12\20@015812 by dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hi,

I do not see where your program variables and output port bits are reset
upon program start. As long as you set TRIS only output state will be
undetermined.


I hope this helps.

Regards,
Imre


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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| to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or          |
| privileged material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or    |
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| is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the      |
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On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Milan Pavlica (YU7AEC) wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\20@032827 by Milan Pavlica (YU7AEC)

flavicon
face
part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 4560 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=koi8-r (decoded quoted-printable)

I solved it  - there was a problem with RB0 because he is also a RB0/INT pin!
I just moved it to RB1 and now works perfect!

"dr. Imre Bartfai" wrote:

{Quote hidden}


part 2 201 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=koi8-r;
(decoded 7bit)

begin:vcard
n:Pavlica;Milan
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:SuperSonic Systems
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:RemoveMEmpavlicaRemoveMEspamRemoveMEptt.yu
title:Chief
fn:Milan Pavlica
end:vcard


part 3 131 bytes
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'[PIC]: What have I done wrong?'
2002\02\01@075435 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney
flavicon
face
Hi guys,

I am a newbie, but am starting to have some reasonable success.

To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me. Instead of
getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!

RADIX   DEC
;etc



MOVLW  6  ;We want to do this thing 6 times
MOVWF  COUNTER
LOOP
; Do some stuff
CALL   DELAY500; Delay 500ms
; Do some more stuff
CALL   DELAY500; Delay 500ms
DECFSZ   COUNTER, F
GOTO   LOOP

I eventually leave this loop, but after significantly more than 6 cycles.
What have I done wrong? It's like I have the wrong figure in the MOVLW   6
statement.

TYIA

Sean Alcorn

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2002\02\01@080913 by Dinho AeS

flavicon
face
Hi,

Could you send me your DELAY500 code.

The problem could be there.

Thanks

Dinho

-----Mensagem original-----
De: pic microcontroller discussion list [PICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]
Em nome de Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 1 de fevereiro de 2002 09:17
Para: spam_OUTPICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Assunto: [PIC]: What have I done wrong?


Hi guys,

I am a newbie, but am starting to have some reasonable success.

To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me. Instead
of getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!

RADIX   DEC
;etc



MOVLW  6  ;We want to do this thing 6 times
MOVWF  COUNTER
LOOP
; Do some stuff
CALL   DELAY500; Delay 500ms
; Do some more stuff
CALL   DELAY500; Delay 500ms
DECFSZ   COUNTER, F
GOTO   LOOP

I eventually leave this loop, but after significantly more than 6
cycles.
What have I done wrong? It's like I have the wrong figure in the MOVLW
6
statement.

TYIA

Sean Alcorn

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2002\02\01@081553 by Drew Vassallo

picon face
>To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me. Instead of
>getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!

Your code in *this section* appears ok.  I would check your DELAY calls to
make sure that your COUNTER value isn't being changed somehow.  Perhaps you
have it mirrored with another register in another bank and you're not
switching banks properly, causing an errant change in your COUNTER register.
 Also check your ISRs for the same problems.

--Andrew

_________________________________________________________________
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2002\02\01@081602 by Jinx

face picon face
> I eventually leave this loop, but after significantly more than
> 6 cycles.

How are you figuring it's more than 6 ? By measuring time ? Are
you sure the 500ms delay is correct ?

Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with and
without the delay500 enabled)

Is  the RAM byte "Counter" being used in another part of the
program under a different name ? For example, have you
managed to assign the same address to two names ?

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2002\02\01@082148 by Peter Onion

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On 01-Feb-02 Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I am a newbie, but am starting to have some reasonable success.
>
> To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me. Instead of
> getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!

Sean,

The code you posted should work, but without details of the "do some stuff" and
the delay routine it is impossible to tell if there is something in there that
is corrupting the value in the loop counter.

I would guess that something is changing the value in COUNTER.

Maybe a bank switching problem, or maybe another variable asigned to the same
register file.

How do you asign variables to registers ?

Peter.

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2002\02\01@083837 by Byron A Jeff

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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 10:16:37PM +1100, Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
{Quote hidden}

One quick suggestions is to remove the contents of the loop and test
the functionality in isolation. The code looks correct at first glance. So
I'd bet that something in the "Do some stuff" or in the DELAY500 is
affecting counter.

Have you tested your code with a simulator?

BAJ

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2002\02\01@085245 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 2/2/02 12:15 AM, Jinx at TakeThisOuTjoecolquittspam_OUTspamCLEAR.NET.NZ wrote:

>> I eventually leave this loop, but after significantly more than
>> 6 cycles.


> How are you figuring it's more than 6 ? By measuring time ?

I am toggling one of the Pins High and Low & driving an LED to test.


> Are you sure the 500ms delay is correct ?

Yes. Pretty close. I have used this code many times before, and I have the
LED to test (count)

> Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with and
> without the delay500 enabled)

No. I have never had any success running in MPLAB! It takes far too long!!!

> Is  the RAM byte "Counter" being used in another part of the
> program under a different name ? For example, have you
> managed to assign the same address to two names ?

No. Definitely not!

So my RADIX   DEC and MOVLW 6 is correct?

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\01@085511 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 2/2/02 12:15 AM, Drew Vassallo at KILLspamsnurple.....spamTakeThisOuTHOTMAIL.COM wrote:

>> To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me. Instead of
>> getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!
>
> Your code in *this section* appears ok.  I would check your DELAY calls to
> make sure that your COUNTER value isn't being changed somehow.

Checked that.

> Perhaps you
> have it mirrored with another register in another bank and you're not
> switching banks properly, causing an errant change in your COUNTER register.
> Also check your ISRs for the same problems.

This is a 12C508. No banks to worry about or ISRs :-(

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\01@090128 by Dinho AeS

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Hi Sean,

I don't think you need to use RADIX for it.

It doesn't seem to be your problem.

Could you send the rest of your code then I could check it for you.

Thanks

Dinho

-----Mensagem original-----
De: pic microcontroller discussion list [TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU]
Em nome de Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 1 de fevereiro de 2002 11:52
Para: spam_OUTPICLISTRemoveMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Assunto: Re: [PIC]: What have I done wrong?


on 2/2/02 12:15 AM, Drew Vassallo at spamsnurpleKILLspamspamKILLspamHOTMAIL.COM wrote:

>> To me, this code looks right, but it's just not working for me.
>> Instead of getting 6 loops of my code, I get heaps of them!
>
> Your code in *this section* appears ok.  I would check your DELAY
> calls to make sure that your COUNTER value isn't being changed
> somehow.

Checked that.

> Perhaps you
> have it mirrored with another register in another bank and you're not
> switching banks properly, causing an errant change in your COUNTER
> register. Also check your ISRs for the same problems.

This is a 12C508. No banks to worry about or ISRs :-(

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\01@095808 by Peter Onion

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On 01-Feb-02 Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
>
>> Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with and
>> without the delay500 enabled)
>
> No. I have never had any success running in MPLAB! It takes far too long!!!
>

Take a hint Sean :-)  Finding this sort of bug is exactly the sort of thing
that simulators were designed for !

The reason it "It takes far too long!!!" in MPLAB is probably the same reason
it seems to go around the loop too many times on a real PIC.

Watch the value of COUNTER and see if it is being changed in unexpected places
in the code.

Peter.

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2002\02\01@101410 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Peter Onion wrote:

> On 01-Feb-02 Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
> >
> >> Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with and
> >> without the delay500 enabled)
> >
> > No. I have never had any success running in MPLAB! It takes far too long!!!
> >
>
> Take a hint Sean :-)  Finding this sort of bug is exactly the sort of thing
> that simulators were designed for !
>
> The reason it "It takes far too long!!!" in MPLAB is probably the same reason
> it seems to go around the loop too many times on a real PIC.
>
> Watch the value of COUNTER and see if it is being changed in unexpected places
> in the code.

You may wish to investigate gpsim as your debugger. It can handle both of
the issues raised here: 1) Execution speed; gpsim runs faster than a real
PIC 2) Watching registers for you; You can set break points on register
reads or writes (you can even set break points on register bits).

http://www.dattalo.com/gnupic/gpsim.html

Scott

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2002\02\01@105254 by Carlos Ojea

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Is it possible to set break points on register reads or writes using Mplab ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Dattalo <spamscottspam_OUTspamDATTALO.COM>
To: STOPspamPICLISTspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU <spam_OUTPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: viernes 1 de febrero de 2002 16:13
Subject: Re: [PIC]: What have I done wrong?


>On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Peter Onion wrote:
>
>> On 01-Feb-02 Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with and
>> >> without the delay500 enabled)
>> >
>> > No. I have never had any success running in MPLAB! It takes far too
long!!!
>> >
>>
>> Take a hint Sean :-)  Finding this sort of bug is exactly the sort of
thing
>> that simulators were designed for !
>>
>> The reason it "It takes far too long!!!" in MPLAB is probably the same
reason
>> it seems to go around the loop too many times on a real PIC.
>>
>> Watch the value of COUNTER and see if it is being changed in unexpected
places
{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\01@154909 by Jinx

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> > Have you tried running and monitoring it in MPLAB ? (with
> > and without the delay500 enabled)
>
> No. I have never had any success running in MPLAB! It takes
> far too long!!!

That may be false economy. I had something similar to this a
while ago and struggled long and hard to find the problem before
I gave in and ran it through MPLAB. Yes, it did take a while, but
the cause of the problem was found very quickly. One simple
conditional break-point and it was all over, I kicked myself at
something that had been staring me in the face all day and
moved on. It sounds like a cheap platitude, but it is never a
good idea to check your own work. Short of posting the entire
code for us to look at, MPLAB is a good sniffer dog

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2002\02\01@183057 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 2/2/02 7:48 AM, Jinx at EraseMEjoecolquittspamKILLspamCLEAR.NET.NZ wrote:

Hi Joe,

> That may be false economy. I had something similar to this a
> while ago and struggled long and hard to find the problem before
> I gave in and ran it through MPLAB. Yes, it did take a while, but
> the cause of the problem was found very quickly.

I thought it was just me or my computer! Surely it could be re-written to
run faster than it does. I bought a PIC Tutor package and it came with a
little simulator program. It has arrays of "LEDs" on the screen to indicate
pins, registers etc. and it runs in real time! The only downside is that you
have to write the code inside this little app and it is only for the
PIC16F84, but surely Microchip could do something like this.

One simple
> conditional break-point and it was all over, I kicked myself at
> something that had been staring me in the face all day and
> moved on. It sounds like a cheap platitude, but it is never a
> good idea to check your own work. Short of posting the entire
> code for us to look at, MPLAB is a good sniffer dog

Yeah, fair enough. I do not mind posting all of my code, but my code gets
spat out of my compiler - and before anybody says "Why don't you write it
yourself" - I am now writing about 90% of simple programs myself. However, I
write them *inside* the compiler as an assembly instruction. Then when I
'compile' my code, the compiler kindly strips away all my comments. :-(

So, I do not like to post my complete, uncommented code. Here it is as
follows with a few quick comments addaed. Also the delay routine used to be
at the end. I have moved it to the beginning of the code, but no other
changes have been made.


    LIST P= 12C508A
    INCLUDE "P12C508A.INC"
    RADIX DEC
    ORG  0X1
AUX1_L EQU  0X7
AUX1_H EQU  0X8
AUX2_L EQU  0X9
AUX2_H EQU  0XA
AUX EQU  0XB
S0 EQU  0XC
COUNTB EQU  0XD
COUNT_H EQU  0XE
COUNT_L EQU  0XF
    __CONFIG   _CP_OFF & _WDT_ON & _MCLRE_OFF & _INTRC_OSC
    MOVWF  OSCCAL
    GOTO   STARTHERE
    ORG  0X40
DELAY500
    ; CREATE A DELAY OF 500MS
    MOVLW  9;*
    MOVWF  AUX2_L
DELAYLAB31
    MOVLW  169;*
    MOVWF  AUX1_H;*
DELAYLAB21
    MOVLW  81;*
    MOVWF  AUX1_L;*
DELAYLAB11
    CLRWDT
    DECFSZ AUX1_L, F;*
    GOTO   DELAYLAB11
    CLRWDT
    DECFSZ AUX1_H, F;*
    GOTO   DELAYLAB21
    CLRWDT
    DECFSZ AUX2_L, F;*
    GOTO   DELAYLAB31
    RETLW  0
STARTHERE
    MOVLW  B'000000'
    TRIS   GPIO
STAGE1
    MOVLW  6; I want a delay of 6 seconds
    MOVWF  COUNTB
STAGE1_LEDON
    MOVLW  B'000011'
    MOVWF  GPIO
    CALL   DELAY500
STAGE1_LEDOFF
    MOVLW  B'100011'
    MOVWF  GPIO
    CALL   DELAY500
    DECFSZ COUNTB, F
    GOTO   STAGE1_LEDON
IDLE1; just a 500ms delay
    MOVLW  B'100001'
    MOVWF  GPIO
    CALL   DELAY500
STAGE2
    MOVLW  10; I want a delay of 5 seconds
    MOVWF  COUNTB
STAGE2_2
    MOVLW  B'000101'
    MOVWF  GPIO
    CALL   DELAY500
    DECFSZ COUNTB, F
    GOTO   STAGE2_2
IDLE2
    MOVLW  20; I want a delay of 10 seconds here with NOTHING happening
    MOVWF  COUNTB
IDLE3
    MOVLW  B'100000'
    MOVWF  GPIO
    CALL   DELAY500
    DECFSZ COUNTB, F
    GOTO   IDLE3
    GOTO   STAGE1
    END

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2002\02\01@183704 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 2/2/02 2:01 AM, Peter Onion at EraseMEponionRemoveMEspamSRD.BT.CO.UK wrote:

Peter,

> Take a hint Sean :-)  Finding this sort of bug is exactly the sort of thing
> that simulators were designed for !

Yes. I agree. But the particular MPLAB simulator is all but useless to me.

> The reason it "It takes far too long!!!" in MPLAB is probably the same reason
> it seems to go around the loop too many times on a real PIC.

No. Not so. It takes minutes to complete a single 500mS delay!


> Watch the value of COUNTER and see if it is being changed in unexpected places
> in the code.

See my code just posted in response to Jo (jinx). It's real simple. The LED
on GP5 (Pin 6) is toggling perfectly. All I do is count them and I lose
count! :-) A lot more than 6.

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\01@184120 by Andrew Warren

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Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney <.....PICLISTspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> [MPLAB] takes minutes to complete a single 500mS delay!

   So make a "debug" version of your code that replaces the three
   constants in your delay routine with 0x01.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- @spam@aiwEraseMEspamspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2002\02\01@194418 by Jinx

face picon face
Are you using WDT ? You could lose the CLRWDTs otherwise

>      __CONFIG  & _WDT_ON &

My quick back-of-envelope calcs suggest the DELAY500
routine is taking almost 8,000,000 cycles. To be done in 500ms
that would imply a 64MHz crystal  (64,000,000/4/2)

(Ignoring 2-cycle DECFSZ)

(4 x 9) x (4 x 169) x (4 x 81) = 7,884,864

At 4Mhz (1us instruction time) this would take 8 seconds

Assuming I'm right (lot on today, I feel like an octopus
playing the drums), and your 500ms isn't critical, use
a WDT interrupt for timing (would take about 28 at 18ms
each), or just a two-level nest. Get the internal loop to
around 2000 cycles with NOPs and a 0-255 count for the
external, if you're running at 4MHz. If you want exactly
500ms you'll have to get the calculator out and take a
look at the timing routine suggestions at http://www.piclist.com

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2002\02\01@222412 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 2/2/02 11:41 AM, Jinx at joecolquittTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamCLEAR.NET.NZ wrote:

Hi Joe,

> Are you using WDT ? You could lose the CLRWDTs otherwise

Yes. Am using the WDT.

> My quick back-of-envelope calcs suggest the DELAY500
> routine is taking almost 8,000,000 cycles. To be done in 500ms
> that would imply a 64MHz crystal  (64,000,000/4/2)

> (Ignoring 2-cycle DECFSZ)
>
> (4 x 9) x (4 x 169) x (4 x 81) = 7,884,864
>
> At 4Mhz (1us instruction time) this would take 8 seconds

Then you will understand my frustration. If what you have calculated is
true,  then it does not explain my (almost) perfect Flash rate of 1Hz on GP5
(Pin7) which is achieved by two delay calls.

This same delay routine is working flawlessly in other applications.

I simply can not see how there can be anything wrong with an already proven
delay routine and one that seems to be working in this application.

I am geting a CORRECT flash rate of approximately 1 Hz on GP5, and I am
simply trying to count 6 cycles of that.

> Assuming I'm right (lot on today, I feel like an octopus
> playing the drums), and your 500ms isn't critical, use
> a WDT interrupt for timing (would take about 28 at 18ms
> each), or just a two-level nest. Get the internal loop to
> around 2000 cycles with NOPs and a 0-255 count for the
> external, if you're running at 4MHz. If you want exactly
> 500ms you'll have to get the calculator out and take a
> look at the timing routine suggestions at http://www.piclist.com

Sorry. A bit much in the above for a newbie. But I like the suggestion of
using a WDT for timing. How would one do this? Isn't a WDT interrupt just
like a reset with the exception of a couple of flags?

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\01@225801 by Jinx

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> > At 4Mhz (1us instruction time) this would take 8 seconds
>
> Then you will understand my frustration. If what you have
> calculated is true,  then it does not explain my (almost) perfect
> Flash rate of 1Hz on GP5 (Pin7) which is achieved by two
> delay calls.

I hope it is true, I'm not firing on all cylinders today (watched the
ODI cricket until 3am), but no one's jumped in to disagree

I don't understand how you've got your flash rate either, unless
it's by some quirky accident of timing

> This same delay routine is working flawlessly in other applications.

Hmmm

> I simply can not see how there can be anything wrong with an
> already proven delay routine and one that seems to be working
> in this application.

Unless someone says my calcs are wrong, I don't know how
to explain that

> I am geting a CORRECT flash rate of approximately 1 Hz on
> GP5, and I am simply trying to count 6 cycles of that.

Or that

{Quote hidden}

What I was saying is that you needn't have 3 routines nested
3-deep. You could do it with two (or even just one if you were
using a micro that had an interrupting timer). It's just a question
of taking the number of cycles in the delay you want and finding
factors for it (then smoothing over the cracks if you want very
accurate repeatability)

> But I like the suggestion of using a WDT for timing. How would
> one do this? Isn't a WDT interrupt just like a reset with the
> exception of a couple of flags?

There is a special use for WDT that you may be able to use.
You put the micro to SLEEP. When the WDT times out, program
flow continues after the SLEEP instruction, rather than a reset

It's quite simple to do, and is well-documented with no gotchas
that I recall

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'[PIC]: What have I done wrong? - Follow up'
2002\02\02@040906 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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Hi Guys,

I just wanted to post and let everyone that helped me know that I have
solved my problem.

Although I can not prove it, I suspect that one or two lines "fell out" of
my code.

To explain, I have a great little BASIC to Assembler compiler. Whilst it has
been great helping me get started with PICs, it has a few faults which I
have reported to the writer - one of which is sometimes there are lines
missing from my code.

I have found that *most* of the time, if I edit in the BASIC environment,
then do a "Compile & Check", I will have a number of errors in my code -
including lines missing, syntax errors etc. If I close the file, close the
application, then restart the application, reopen the file and then compile
IMMEDIATELY (without any modifications), I do not get any errors.

I strongly suspect that I forgot to do this procedure and I lost both the
lines - MOVLW  6 and MOVWF  COUNTB in the first section of my code. I
suspect this, because it happened to me again whilst I was fiddling around
trying to find this problem.

I suspected this problem, so checked against my original chip and counted
208 cycles. I guess that if the MOVLW 6 and/or MOVWF COUNTB were missing and
the register COUNTB was not loaded, then it's initial state would be 0 the
first DECFSZ would cause it to be -1 (Can a register be a minus?) and
therefore not skip. I then got 208 cycles (which also does not make sense)
and then my code continued correctly.

I re-checked my assembler code completely, re-generated the HEX file, and it
works perfectly.

I guess I am going to have to "cut the Apron strings" and just use assembler
completely from now on. I do not regret starting with the BASIC compiler. It
has enabled me to learn the PIC instruction set to a point where I key 90%
of the code in assembler now anyway. But if it is going to produce
unreliable results for me - including dropping out manually entered lines -
then it is probably more trouble than it is worth - and time to move on.

I may still keep it to generate delays etc. for me. :-)

Regards,

Sean

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2002\02\02@051537 by Jinx

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> the register COUNTB was not loaded, then it's initial state
> would be 0 the first DECFSZ would cause it to be -1 (Can
> a register be a minus?)

Yes, in signed maths, where you use bit7 as the sign. Normally
you'd just call it 255 or FF

> I guess I am going to have to "cut the Apron strings" and just
> use assembler completely from now on

Many people find it convenient to use a higher level language
like C to write general code and drop into hand-written assembler
for the tricky bits eg those that need to be optimised for speed

> unreliable results for me - including dropping out manually
> entered lines - then it is probably more trouble than it is worth -
> and time to move on

You might find it helpful to write or pinch a few macros that
can be plonked into any program. For example an LCD routine
that takes the data  from W or a particularly named register
and displays it

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2002\02\02@102833 by Phil

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Sean,

Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I just wanted to post and let everyone that helped me know that I have
> solved my problem.
>
> Although I can not prove it, I suspect that one or two lines "fell out" of
> my code.
>
> To explain, I have a great little BASIC to Assembler compiler. Whilst it has
> been great helping me get started with PICs, it has a few faults which I
> have reported to the writer - one of which is sometimes there are lines
> missing from my code.
>

 Which BASIC compiler are you using?

Phil
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2002\02\02@183536 by Sean Alcorn - Avion Sydney

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on 3/2/02 2:26 AM, Phil at RemoveMEphilTakeThisOuTspamPKELLER.NET wrote:

> Which BASIC compiler are you using?

Phil,

I bought two - one is called "CH Basic" which supports most PICs but limited
in commands, and the other is called "Flash Basic" which suppors all the
Flash parts only, but has more advanced commands - including reading the
A/D, writing directly to LCD etc.

They are written by an Australian company called Celestial Horizons - Check
them out at; http://www.celestialhorizons.com/

Regards,

Sean

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'[PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong'
2002\02\04@004508 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Well, it finally happened.  What started out as a promising paying
code-for-hire job went bad, the customer has stopped responding to emails
and has apparently decided not to pay for the work done as agreed.  Since
we're several states apart and the amount isn't enough to get lawyers
involved, I guess he gets away with it for the time being.  I'm really
disappointed; it's not like my kids are going to go without shoes this
winter, but there are a few hundred hours of my time I would have spent
doing other things if I'd known I wasn't going to get paid for them.  I
even offered to be flexible on the amount if he was in financial straits,
but there has been no response to my last four or five emails since
December.

I debated for a few weeks whether or not to post this to the list.  I
don't want to be seen as using the list or my so-called position as list
admin to push a personal agenda.  Sooner or later, though, the guy is
going to need some changes or fixes made to the code, and I suspect he's
going to turn to another PICList member to do it.  I'd really like to
spare the next guy the same fate, and yes, it would irritate me to know
someone else was getting paid to do what I should have already been paid
to do.

I'm not going to name names or go too deep into details, but if you get an
email from someone looking to have some work done on some CCS C source
code (that still may or may not have my name attached), you might want to
drop me a note privately to see if it's the same guy.  IANAL, but as far
as I can tell since I didn't get paid as agreed, he's got no right to the
code.

Dale
---
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       -- Me

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2002\02\04@014336 by Jesse Lackey

flavicon
face
Why are you hesitant to name names?  If he is a deadbeat, in other words a
*CROOK*, I personally want to know who he is, to avoid becoming his next
victim.  Few *hundred* hours?  Are you kidding me?  Send him another email
warning him that you will go public with the situation if it makes you feel
better then POST.  If you are an honest person, and it sounds like you are,
you deserve honesty from those you do business with.  If he has anything to
say then he can post too.

Frankly, I'd make a short web page about him and the situation and feed it
to google.  When he remedies the situation to your satisfaction, you can
change it or take it down.

Its not like you will be committing libel & you are doing honest freelancers
a favor.

Jesse



Dale Botkin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\04@020517 by Robert Rolf

picon face
And I assume that you may also have some recourse in 'small claims' court.
At the very least, file a complaint with the BBB in his area.
http://www.bbb.org/
If he ever tries to become a member, he'll have some explaining to do.

And since what you're going to post is 'the truth' you can't be liable for
libel. And DO name names since that's the only potent club you've got.

And have you tried phoning him to confirm that he really ISN'T going to
pay. Computers do go down and it can sometimes take weeks to get them
back up. Never attribute to malice that which can also come from
stupidity (or long winter vacations). You really should try to
talk to him on the phone before pulling the trigger. And he may have
gone bankrupt, in which case you'll want to file a claim with the
trustee or bankrupcy court in his locale ASAP.

Robert

Jesse Lackey wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC]: What have I done wrong?'
2002\02\04@040105 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>This same delay routine is working flawlessly in other applications.
>
>I simply can not see how there can be anything wrong with an already proven
>delay routine and one that seems to be working in this application.

This then implies that somewhere else in your code, there is an access to
the counter variable that should not be there. Try doing something as simple
as using your editor to search for all instances of the variable name. You
may be surprised where it pops up :)

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'[PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong'
2002\02\04@040314 by Peter Anderson

picon face
That's unfortunate.

I don't like conflict, but in this situation, I would
be inclined to post a "beware", both here and on the
CCS board.

I am not a professional contractor, but the work I
have done has often been frustrating.  In virtually
every job, the requirements seem to keep growing, and
I then have to toughen up and request additional
payment prior to providing additional code.
Although, the welfare of my students may not depend on
payment, I get myself into a mindset that it does.
Toughens me up.

But, don't let it eat you up.  Take some stock in
knowing you would never stoop so low.  In the future,
stage the work and resolve to insist on partial prior
payment as the software is delivered.

Peter H Anderson, http://www.phanderson.com
(Not affiliated with Arthur Andersen)

--- Dale Botkin <dalespamspamTakeThisOuTBOTKIN.ORG> wrote:
> Well, it finally happened.  What started out as a
> promising paying


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

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2002\02\04@094512 by Karl Seibert

flavicon
face
Dale,

I've seen some other responses and I would like to add something
that the company I work for has to do occasionally: bring in
a collection agency.  You will have to turn over a large part
of the money they shake loose from the deadbeats (50% is the
amount I hear tossed around when the money types are talking),
but it might be worth the try if you are just about to give up
on getting anything.  Collections people are paid to be persistant
and they know how to go after credit ratings.  The company that
didn't pay you might change their minds after a big black mark
shows up on the credit report and suppliers start insisting on
payment up front instead of giving 30 days to pay.

Karl

Quoting Dale Botkin <TakeThisOuTdale@spam@spam@spam@BOTKIN.ORG>:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\04@105955 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face
Tough Blow, Dale.  I ate a $2000 moonlight  job a coupla years ago, and
decided not to sue.  The blighters have the gall to come back around to my
daylight employer looking for work in their "newly formed" company
consisting of all the same guys just a few months later.  Sheesh.

Since then I have demanded retainers, and I have a clause in my contract (I
now HAVE a contract) that says that I am working on time and materials basis
and any change in scope means a change in fees.  Low and behold, nobody has
squawked about it.  I figure this is how my lawyer works, so can I.

I would NOT try to solve this problem via email.  Call them, write letters,
and have a lawyer wirte a letter.  A $100 letter from my lawyer has scared
the pants off several BIG companies that were about to roll over me with
thier corporate steamrollers, after months of no response I got very
apologetic calls from the boss saying we could easily work something out
etc. etc.  Lawyers don't have to sue to get results, and in fact you are
always bettter off if they don't.

--Lawrence






{Original Message removed}

2002\02\04@114445 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
Lawrence has some great points, and I found a middle ground as well. You
can go to the local magistrate (two states away) and file a small claim.
They will be served with notice of a hearing. You do not have to involve
an attorney at all. When they see that they are about to spend money to
defend, or at least to show up, they get very agreeable. I got a call
right away from their CFO. We came to a compromise, and he said I could
drop by and pickup a check. I went dressed as a slob. You could see his
distaste in handing over my check. It was fun.

Chris~

Lawrence Lile wrote:
>
> I would NOT try to solve this problem via email.  Call them, write letters,
> and have a lawyer wirte a letter.  A $100 letter from my lawyer has scared
> the pants off several BIG companies that were about to roll over me with
> thier corporate steamrollers, after months of no response I got very
> apologetic calls from the boss saying we could easily work something out
> etc. etc.  Lawyers don't have to sue to get results, and in fact you are
> always bettter off if they don't.

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2002\02\04@115527 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>We came to a compromise, and he said I could drop by
>and pickup a check. I went dressed as a slob. You could
>see his distaste in handing over my check. It was fun.

I guess this is what is known as a "double whammy". He certainly will not be
sending a job from his plush office to a slob like that again :)

Nice way to stop repeat jobs you don't want ;)

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2002\02\04@173231 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Jesse Lackey wrote:

> Why are you hesitant to name names?  If he is a deadbeat, in other words a
> *CROOK*, I personally want to know who he is, to avoid becoming his next
> victim.

I have decided to make a couple more attempts to collect before going that
far.  I'll call and snailmail the guy to see if there may be some reason
he's not responding.  I'd really, really hate to harm someone's reputation
if I was wrong.  He could be hospitalized, moving, God only knows what.
All I know for sure is that I get no email bounce messages and no
response, but that could be caused by any number of things.  I dealt with
him for over a year with no problems, so it's hard for me to accept that
he would just all of a sudden decide to break our agreement without
explanation.  On the other hand, we had discussed the amount and timing of
the payment that was due, so it's not like the guy is unaware of the
situation -- and he's got my address and phone number.

As for future jobs, I do plan to make some changes to how I negotiate the
job up front, as well as how scope & feature creep are handled.  In this
case I do have a string of emails documenting the agreements we have, but
I am really not willing to go through the expense and hassle of suing,
especially across state lines.  Since I'm out the labor but not any cash
or materials, I'll chalk it up as a tuition payment to Hard Knocks U. if I
never get paid.  Just to clarify, I *did* get some retainer up front, so
it's not like I got totally shafted, it's just the payment that was
promised on completion that never materialized.  I'll get by.  And sooner
or later, like I said, something's going to need tweaking, and there is a
pretty small pool of available tweakers for this kind of thing!

I think in the future I'll start with a written agreement of the project
scope and specifications, a retainer payment, and agreed terms of what
happens when scope or features change, when payment is needed, progress
reports, the works.  It will be a pain in the rear, but so is working a
few weeks on a project you're not going to get paid for.

Dale

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2002\02\04@175609 by Dal Wheeler

flavicon
face
Are you certain they're still in business?  It's not a certain thing these
days...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Botkin <EraseMEdaleRemoveMEspam@spam@BOTKIN.ORG>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong


> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Jesse Lackey wrote:
>
> > Why are you hesitant to name names?  If he is a deadbeat, in other words
a
> > *CROOK*, I personally want to know who he is, to avoid becoming his next
> > victim.

What state do they operate out of?  Maybe this is enough info to just "be
aware".

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2002\02\04@183239 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Dale,

I would expect that a "few hundred hours" of your time would be sufficient
to get lawyers involved, at least at the initial stage of having them send a
scare letter.

I wish you the best of luck in getting your $$$.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems


{Original Message removed}

2002\02\08@183832 by Brian Kraut

picon face
Be sure to send a certified letter.  It only costs a few bucks and lets
him know that you are serious.

Dale Botkin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\09@062616 by Andrzej Baranski

flavicon
face
But he might refuse to accept a registered letter.
There is however a little legal trick, valid as far as I know in all
Western legal systems, at the end of your letter add a sentence :
" This letter is send as a registered as well as ordinary one "

Brian Kraut wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC]: What am I doing wrong?'
2002\02\09@065411 by James Burkart

flavicon
face
Hello,

I am just trying to make a 16F877 do anything. Blink LEDs for all I
care, but I am having no luck...

Here is the code...

;====== XMTR.ASM ======================================== 2/08/02 ======
       list    p=16f877
       radix   hex

;-----= CPU EQUATES =---------------------------------------------------
tmr0    equ     0x01
status  equ     0x03
porta   equ     0x05
portb   equ     0x06
portc   equ     0x07
portd   equ     0x08
porte   equ     0x09
pclath  equ     0x0a
intcon  equ     0x0b
trisa   equ     0x85
trisb   equ     0x86
trisc   equ     0x87
trisd   equ     0x88
trise   equ     0x89
adcon1  equ     0x9f
rp0     equ     5
rp1     equ     6

;-----= BIT EQUATES & VARIABLES =---------------------------------------

;-----= PROGRAM =-------------------------------------------------------
       org     0x000
;
       bcf     status, rp0
       bcf     status, rp1
;
       bsf     status, rp0
       movlw   b'00000111'
       movwf   adcon1
;
       movlw   b'00000000'
       movwf   trisb
;
       bcf     status, rp0
;
start   nop
       clrf    portb

loop    incf    portb, f
       nop
       nop
       nop
       nop
       goto    loop

       end


     VCC
     ---
      |
      /
      \
      /
      \
      |
     ---
     \ /
      V
     ---
      |
   ==PORT==

As simple as that. I have it set to RC with a 10k and .1uF.  On a scope
RB 0-3 is changing but RB 4-7 isn't doing a thing, and when I connect an
LED like in the diagram the PIC stops oscillating.  What are the correct
settings for the FUSES?

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'[PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong'
2002\02\09@111744 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Brian Kraut wrote:

> Be sure to send a certified letter.  It only costs a few bucks and lets
> him know that you are serious.

Did that.  We'll see if that gets things moving.

Dale

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2002\02\09@112615 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Andrzej Baranski wrote:

> But he might refuse to accept a registered letter.
> There is however a little legal trick, valid as far as I know in all
> Western legal systems, at the end of your letter add a sentence :
> " This letter is send as a registered as well as ordinary one "

I'll have to cross that bridge if/when I come to it.  I have to believe,
until proven otherwise, that it's all just a misunderstanding or
oversight... no matter how difficult that is becoming.

Dale

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'[PIC]: What am I doing wrong?'
2002\02\09@193616 by Benjamin Bromilow

flavicon
face
Rather than writing out all the EQUs try using the INC file
The fuses can be set as follows:
As far as I understand it, portA A/D settings are only important if you're
using portA.
We're not so it doesn't matter.
I've trimmed the code a bit.
This *should* work if you paste it into MPLAB and adjust the tabs :)


include "p16f877.inc"
list p=16f877
__CONFIG _CP_OFF & _DEBUG_OFF & _WRT_ENABLE_OFF & _CPD_OFF & _LVP_OFF &
_BODEN_OFF & _PWRTE_OFF & _WDT_OFF & _RC_OSC

;-----= PROGRAM =-------------------------------------------------------

       bcf     STATUS, RP1                ; into page 1
       bsf     STATUS,RP0                ;
       movlw   b'00000000'        ; set port B to output
       movwf   TRISB
       bcf    STATUS,RP0                  ; then back to page 0

start
       clrf    PORTB                        ; make sure portB is off

loop
       incf    PORTB,F
       nop
       nop
       nop
       nop
       goto    loop

END

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'[PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong'
2002\02\10@150654 by Mark Newland

flavicon
face
Since he has not paid for the services that you provided, he should not own
the rights to that code or any other work that you have done.  This would
probally mean that you still own the rights to it.  What would prevent you
from marketing the product yourself?

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'[PIC]: What am I doing wrong?'
2002\02\10@170842 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
James Burkart wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Put this is your code instead of your setup code...

       clrf PORTA
       clrf PORTB
       clrf PORTC
       clrf PORTD
       clrf PORTE
       bsf STATUS,RP0
       clrf TRISA
       clrf TRISB
       clrf TRISC
       clrf TRISD
       clrf TRISE
       movlw b'00000111'
       movwf ADCON1
       bcf STATUS,RP0

All the port pins other than RB are floting inputs which can cause lots
of headaches.

The data books specify C values as pF not nF as you are using. Whether
there is a reason for this I don't know.

Try 300pF and 100K for Fosc = 28KHz. You will still need to slow your
loop down to see all the LEDs change state.


Try this for your fuse setting. Make sure it appears only on one line in
your source code.


;
; ------------------
; CONFIGURATION FUSE
; ------------------
;
       __CONFIG _CP_OFF & _WRT_ENABLE_OFF & _RC_OSC & _WDT_OFF & _PWRTE_OFF &
_BODEN_OFF & _LVP_OFF & _CPD_OFF & _DEBUG_OFF





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Tony

mICros
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'[PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong'
2002\02\11@055757 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> But he might refuse to accept a registered letter.
> There is however a little legal trick, valid as far as I know in all
> Western legal systems, at the end of your letter add a sentence :
> " This letter is send as a registered as well as ordinary one "

Do you mean that with this annotation on the end of the letter, you send two
copies, one of which is by registered post?

What is the legal advantage of doing this, or of the annotation?

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2002\02\11@141756 by Andrzej Baranski

flavicon
face
"Alan B. Pearce" wrote:
>
> > But he might refuse to accept a registered letter.
> > There is however a little legal trick, valid as far as I know in all
> > Western legal systems, at the end of your letter add a sentence :
> > " This letter is send as a registered as well as ordinary one "
>
> Do you mean that with this annotation on the end of the letter, you send two
> copies, one of which is by registered post?
>
Its better to send both.

> What is the legal advantage of doing this, or of the annotation?

I'm not a lawyer, a long time ago I was advised to use it , and it
did work.
As far as I recall the legal advantage is in fact that, refusing to
accept a registered letter he has to prove, in court case, that he
hasn't received the other one. Which is extremely difficult if not
impossible,
and means that he was aware of your demands.

Andy

>
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2002\02\11@154427 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Nothing...  already thought of that, in fact.  We'll see how the efforts
to get a response go.  I don't prticularly want to be a manufacturer, but
it's not like it wld be the first time.  I can do it.

Dale
--
"Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that
curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."
         - Arnold Edinborough


On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Mark Newland wrote:

> Since he has not paid for the services that you provided, he should not own
> the rights to that code or any other work that you have done.  This would
> probally mean that you still own the rights to it.  What would prevent you
> from marketing the product yourself?

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2002\02\12@030528 by Vasile Surducan

flavicon
face
Dale, I have readed this topic with interes, maybe because thats is
what I hapened every monts. So I understood your pain after 100 hours or
more spend to solve a problem for an undecided customer. The only advice i
can gave you is to remember that everything you are doing in this life is
just for yourself ( and not for money or a better life or something like
that, bulshits that your [and mine] capitalist society are learning you
from your born day ). With other words, do not count what you left in your
back ( a multibilionaire Microsoft company, or nothing ) but the way in\
which you spend your life. If you were happy when your pic project was
running is the best payment. Is difficult to understood what I have
written here if you are under 40 years old. But probably you'll remember
at 60.

Best regards, Vasile


On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Dale Botkin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\12@090731 by Chris Loiacono

flavicon
face
Vasile: Well said!

CL

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Vasile Surducan
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:05 AM
To: EraseMEPICLISTspamBeGonespamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC]: Contracting job gone wrong


Dale, I have readed this topic with interes, maybe because thats is
what I hapened every monts. So I understood your pain after 100 hours or
more spend to solve a problem for an undecided customer. The only advice i
can gave you is to remember that everything you are doing in this life is
just for yourself ( and not for money or a better life or something like
that, bulshits that your [and mine] capitalist society are learning you
from your born day ). With other words, do not count what you left in your
back ( a multibilionaire Microsoft company, or nothing ) but the way in\
which you spend your life. If you were happy when your pic project was
running is the best payment. Is difficult to understood what I have
written here if you are under 40 years old. But probably you'll remember
at 60.

Best regards, Vasile

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2002\02\12@203109 by Brian Kraut

picon face
Sounds like a great clause to put into any future development contract.

Mark Newland wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\12@212435 by Jinx

face picon face
> >Since he has not paid for the services that you provided,
> >he should not own the rights to that code or any other work
> >that you have done.  This would probally mean that you still
> >own the rights to it

As I understand it, unless you sign over copyright to s/w and/or
h/w it remains yours. You could make your own product if

- there was no agreement that he had exclusive usage

- you had not signed a confidentiality agreement

I had a similar situation a few years ago. Put in hundreds of
hours work on a product, receiving a token payment on the
understanding that when the project was complete I would
receive my riches from sales. Of course, it never happened,
despite my best efforts to gee up the process. Others also
got hurt, including the guy who made up 10 SMT boards. As
far as I know, the inventor of the product is dead (he looked
at least 500 years old when we started), although I haven't
bothered to get in touch so as not to get all frustrated again

I have all original material and what I think is the cheapest
and most efficient way to do it. I could sue his ass (if he's
not metabolically challenged that is), but that would mean
so much work and raking up it hardly seems worth it. As
Vasile said, sometimes you just have to grin and bear it
and value the learning experience. Be nice to get paid for
it too of course

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2002\02\14@105318 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>Sounds like a great clause to put into any future development contract.
>
>Mark Newland wrote:
>
>>Since he has not paid for the services that you provided, he should not
>>own >>the rights to that code or any other work that you have done.
>This >would >>probally mean that you still own the rights to it.  What
>would prevent >you from marketing the product yourself?

Actually I heard that a small number of open source designs started out as
designs that werenot paid for promptly ...

Peter

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2002\02\14@115247 by thaddeus thomas

flavicon
face
This is EXACTLY what's happening with me.  I wrote an image (object)
extraction system.  The clients management is in an arguement and neither
wants to pay, both are playing me (the contractor) as the pawn.  So, now I
have an system.   So, I'm going to go into selling it for myself.  There was
no clause in the contract against seeking to sell to others, besides they
never honored the contract anyway.   Also the code I delivered earlier (and
was paid) was not within a contract and in that condition, the code is owned
by the person who wrote it.

Damn greedy companies anyway.  they make alot off of our brows and pay us
nothing for it, yet they turn around and sell it for way too much.  Open
Source is Civilized!

Thaddeus

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC]: sprintf(buff,,) wrong, PICC is same as ANSI'
2002\07\11@213203 by personal
flavicon
face
#include <pic.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <ctype.h>
#include <stdio.h>   #include <stdlib.h>  #include <string.h>
#include <delay.h>   //delayUs()
#include <delay.c>
#include "hd44780.c"


using:

  sprintf(buff,"%5.1f good", 3.4356677);
  lcd_puts(buff);  
but I got only 'f'.   what wrong? it is standard C.

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2002\07\11@220512 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Yes, this is standard 'C'. However, many C implementations have two
implementations of the ..printf() family of functions, one with and one
without floating point support. This is done to save _lots_ of code space.

Check the manuals for your 'C' to see if this is the case, and how to get
the full-blown version of the library code.

I do know that some 'C' dialects for micros do not support floating point
..printf() at all. Hopefully that is not the case in your version of 'C'.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

{Original Message removed}

2002\07\11@222514 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
Works fine with CCS...

Oh, right, that's not ANSI C, never mind...  <grin>

Dale
--
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curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly."
         - Arnold Edinborough


On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, personal wrote:

>    sprintf(buff,"%5.1f good", 3.4356677);
>    lcd_puts(buff);

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'is programming spec wrong?'
2002\07\30@030905 by Anbunathan R

flavicon
face
Hi,
Using ICSP, i have developed programmer for PIC 16F84. The problem is if i try to unprotect the protected pic controller i am facing some problem. I am following the sequence as below
        1. Load Configure ( command - 00) with data 3FF0
        2. Increment to 2007
        3. command 01
        4. command 07
        5. Begin program 08 with 10 ms delay
        6. command 01
        7. command 07
But why i can n't defeat code protection. Any body can please give me the correct sequence of commands to unprotect the chip.

With Regards,
Anbu

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2002\07\30@041135 by Wouter van Ooijen

picon face
> Using ICSP, i have developed programmer for PIC 16F84. The
> problem is if i try to unprotect the protected pic controller
> i am facing some problem. I am following the sequence as below
>          1. Load Configure ( command - 00) with data 3FF0
>          2. Increment to 2007
>          3. command 01
>          4. command 07
>          5. Begin program 08 with 10 ms delay
>          6. command 01
>          7. command 07
>  But why i can n't defeat code protection. Any body can
> please give me the correct sequence of commands to unprotect the chip.

The only source for the secret unlock/erase sequence is of course the
PIClist. At least that's where I have got my info from. But it looks
suspiciously like what you do, except '3FFF' instead of '3FF0' (typo?),
and an added 'erase data' sequence.

      -- remove protection
      target_send_6( 0x00 )
      target_send_14( 0x3F, 0xFF )
      for 7 loop
         target_send_6( 0x06 )
      end loop
      target_send_6( 0x01 )
      target_send_6( 0x07 )
      target_send_6( 0x08 )
      target_wait_ms( 10 )
      target_send_6( 0x01 )
      target_send_6( 0x07 )

      -- erase data
      target_reset
      target_send_6( 0x03 )
      target_send_14( 0x00, 0xFF )
      target_send_6( 0x08 )
      target_wait_ms( 10 )
      target_send_6( 0x0B )
      target_send_6( 0x08 )
      target_wait_ms( 10 )

Wouter

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2002\07\30@050929 by Kevin Blain

flavicon
face
Hmm. Let's see.

"Code Protection"

What do you think the purpose of "code protection" is exactly?

In order to change the program memory contents, you have to erase the
device, by doing an "erase all".


Regards, Kevin


> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\30@052605 by Anbunathan R

flavicon
face
No.This is not correct answer. Thanks for your reply

-----Original Message-----
From:   Kevin Blain
Sent:   Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:37 PM
To:     PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Re: is programming spec wrong?

Hmm. Let's see.

"Code Protection"

What do you think the purpose of "code protection" is exactly?

In order to change the program memory contents, you have to erase the
device, by doing an "erase all".


Regards, Kevin


{Quote hidden}

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2002\07\30@052824 by Anbunathan R

flavicon
face
Thanks Wouter. Today evening i will implement and get back if i have any concerns.

With Regards,
Anbu

{Original Message removed}

2002\07\30@053229 by john

flavicon
face
by my reckoning, the only way to get to a code protected chip is to erase it
entirely... other wise whats the point of code protection if you can just
remove it with a config bit

hehehehe

On Tuesday 30 July 2002 11:27 am, you wrote:
> Thanks Wouter. Today evening i will implement and get back if i have any
> concerns.
>
> With Regards,
> Anbu
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\07\30@054453 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>by my reckoning, the only way to get to a code protected chip
>is to erase it entirely... other wise whats the point of code
>protection if you can just remove it with a config bit

Hmm, after reading the previous two posts to yours, I looked at the
programming spec for the 16F8xx series, and it specifically says that if the
code protect is on, then the bulk erase command does NOT change the program
memory, but there is a special series of commands to carry out in this case
to do the erase. It would appear the 16F84 is the same, and this is what
Wouter has given him.

Seems a bit like caveat emptor.

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