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PICList Thread
'an555 - whats up !!'
1994\08\29@153008 by crocontroller discussion list

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face
an555 is REALLY OLD. It'l take you a bit of work to get it to compile with
any of the current tools.

------- Advertizing suplement --------------------------------
Try ASPIC with it, it's a lot easier to debug, because it provides more
meaningful error messages an will pop up your editior on the offending
line(s) if your editor supports that feature (eg. Brief, multi-edit,
Winedit, Codewrite, etc.).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Don


'What is the PIC61? and 73?'
1994\10\10@170440 by Alex
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In article: <spam_OUT9410022354.aa09087TakeThisOuTspampost.demon.co.uk> .....johnsonjKILLspamspam@spam@utdallas.edu writes:
>
> I have seen some talk about these two chips? i know they are in proto now
> but what features do they have?

16C61 = 16C71 with no ADC (or a 16C56 with interrupts if you prefer to
       look at it that way)
16C73 = 16C74 in a 28 pin package - misses off the parallel slave port.

Full d/s available from a disti near you for the 16C61, and also a
flyer for the 16C73 from the same source.

Best regards

Alex R. Baker - Field Apps Engineer Ph: +44 628 851077  Car: +44 831 494921
Arizona Microchip Technology        Fx: +44 628 850259  Email: alexspamKILLspammicrochp.dem
on.co.uk
ANY VIEWS EXPRESSED HERE ARE MINE AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THOSE OF MY E
MPLOYER


'What is the PIC61? and 73?'
1994\11\01@203948 by crocontroller discussion list
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There are several new PICs on the way.  The '63 and '73 were listed in some
marketing literature given out at the seminar earlier this year.  The '61 and
'65 are mentioned in various files included with the PICSTART-16C.  I asked a
Microchip employee about them, and he was very surprised to find out that the
PICSTART referred to these parts; he said they weren't supposed to be talking
about them yet.

PIC16C61: a 16C71 without the A/D converter (lower cost)

PIC16C63: a 16C64 in a 28-pin package

PIC16C65: a 16C74 without the A/D converter (lower cost)

PIC16C73: a 16C74 in a 28-pin package

Some of the marketing literature from the seminar also described a 17C44,
which is a 17C42 with more memory.

Last year I didn't think the 17C4x was very cost effective, since the prices
were comparable to the 68HC11, although admittedly the 17C42 runs faster.
Since Motorola is unable to keep up with demand and 68HC11 prices have gone
up considerably, the 17C42 is looking very attractive.

The Mitsubishi 377xx family also is good for high performance low power
embedded applications, but I can't actually recommend Mitsubishi because they
are very hard to deal with and tend to screw small companies royally.

Eric

1994\11\02@103937 by crocontroller discussion list

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I'll second Eric's comments on Mitsubishi (being hard to deal with).
When I was considering design ideas for a widget we eventually built
11,000 of, I called Mitsubishi to ask about a 'perfect for the task'
4-bit CPU that they had. I had a terrible time getting through, only
to find that they wouldn't even *talk* to me unless I could promise
an initial production run of 100,000+ pieces. Paid up front. (!)

Microchip sent me free samples and an apps engineer. Easy, huh?

.....forbesmKILLspamspam.....csos.orst.edu
Mark G. Forbes

'What is the RT pin in parallel programming of 6X/7'
1994\11\02@135933 by crocontroller discussion list
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I have been looking over the docs on how to preform parallel programming
of a pic.  The 6/7/8 all program similar.  However they all reference a
"RT"pin.  Which pin is this?  I assume that on the 18 pin devices that it
is the RTCC pin(as all of the others are used).  however on the 40 pin
devices I am not sure.  could it be/is it the timer0 pin???? Any help
would be nice.  BTW if you wonder why I am using parallel its because
1)its a personal project and 2)Its 10X faster.

later
       John
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Johnson  Team OS/2 member | EraseMEjohnsonjspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTbga.com | johnsonjspamspam_OUTutdallas.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the Seventh version of OS/2 raised into the air its bow of blue steel and
cried," It. Is. Done."  Around him lay Bill Gates and Microsoft apps.  Their
evil in this world at an end.
                                       Revelations of InfoWorld, Oct 11 1994


'What is wrong with the Stamp II's ?'
1995\02\05@164537 by Lance Walley
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On February 4th, George Risch wrote:

>Thanks for keeping us posted on the situation with the Stamp II 's. Just
>from a curiousity point of view, what has been the major problems in
>producing the software for these packages? Is it that you are trying to use
>another PIC?


George,

There haven't been any problems, per se, but the creator of the Stamp is
grossly unable to estimate project completion times (just like the rest of
us, including myself when I work on projects).

Indeed, we are using a different PIC, which does pose problems not seen on
the original Stamp.  We're also trying to add new functions.


------------------------  Lance Walley  ---------------------------
                         Parallax, Inc.


'What is low voltage....??'
1995\08\16@120058 by Gene Silvernail
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>Generally speaking what is considered hazardous, as far as voltage, is in
the domain
of NEC, the national electrical code. This book  is availible at most of the
larger
electrical distributors, should also be availible at the University.

Low voltage or what NEC refers to as control voltages is below the 50 volt level
, I think 48volts. What is considered to be a dangerous current level is
below 5ma.

Gene P. Silvernail
Belhaven Applied Technologies


'What's happened?'
1995\09\26@210459 by Tom Kellett
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Sorry to bother the list with this, but have I been unsubscribed or has the
list died?
I have received nothing since the 14th of this month. [sept.]
--
TAK
   Pwy fydd yma ymhen can mlynedd ? Na fyddwn.

1995\09\26@233145 by Timothy McDonough DIAL UP1

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I've only received a couple of messages myself. Guess the PIC series
are just so easy to use that no one has any more questions :)

Tim McDonough -- @spam@timmedKILLspamspamcencom.net


On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Tom Kellett wrote:

> Sorry to bother the list with this, but have I been unsubscribed or has the
> list died?
> I have received nothing since the 14th of this month. [sept.]
> --
> TAK
>     Pwy fydd yma ymhen can mlynedd ? Na fyddwn.
>

1995\09\27@044318 by Conny Andersson

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Tim wrote ...

> I've only received a couple of messages myself. Guess the PIC series
> are just so easy to use that no one has any more questions :)

That's true and maybe everyone on this list is overloaded with interesting
projects ... I'm not but that's because I'm still studying for my
master's degree in electrical engineering ...

However, I can come up with one question:

  Microchip! Why don't you take the PicMaster software and make
  a hardware emulating add-on module so that all of us who can't
  afford a complete PicMaster system still can use the user friendly
  environment of the PicMaster software? (for free of course :-)  )

  (I really don't like the DOS-MPSIM software ... it's 1995 now!)

-------------------------
Conny Andersson / LiTH

1995\09\27@075211 by Paul Greenwood

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> Sorry to bother the list with this, but have I been unsubscribed or has the
> list died?
> I have received nothing since the 14th of this month. [sept.]
> --
> TAK
>     Pwy fydd yma ymhen can mlynedd ? Na fyddwn.

Same here - I RE-subscribed yesterday.

--

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (KILLspampabloKILLspamspamaustin.ibm.com)

"We'll cross out that bridge when we come back to it later."

1995\09\27@155111 by Paul Christenson [N3EOP]

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>I've only received a couple of messages myself.

Something is wrong, then.  I currently have 18 messages in my reader; all
recieved within the last 24 hours.


'whats happend'
1995\10\05@063654 by Kenny Baby
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what's happened to microchips www page. I keep (for the past two days)
getting a netscape error "ERROR 404, File not found or does'nt exist
or is read protected". anybody any ideas. ,
,
,
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the sholder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tan Hauser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain.
Time to die.

Remember now, watch out for the Fairies......!

1995\10\05@100416 by s.addison%abdn.ac.uk%UKACRL.bitnet

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>what's happened to microchips www page. I keep (for the past two days)
>getting a netscape error "ERROR 404, File not found or does'nt exist
>or is read protected". anybody any ideas. ,
>,
>,
>I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
>Attack ships on fire off the sholder of Orion.
>I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tan Hauser Gate.
>All those moments will be lost in time,
>like tears in rain.
>Time to die.
>
>Remember now, watch out for the Fairies......!
>
>
It looks fine to me!
Steve Addison
University of Aberdeen
Tillydrone Avenue
Aberdeen
Scotland
UK
AB9 2TN
Tel: UK 01224 272889
Fax: UK 01224 272396


'What is baud rate'
1995\12\13@023351 by Philippe TECHER
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Hi,

Someone compare Baud rate and old method of semaphore ...
I don't follow exactly the whole discussion about baud rate, but I can
explain exactly what is it:

Suppose you have a D/A converter with 2 bits input. Then, you have 4 state
level at the ouput, for example:
       00  -> 0V
       01  -> 1V
       10  -> 2V
       11  -> 4V

If you connect the output of the converter to a transmission line you can
transfert the signal between 2 device A and B. If you change the code of the
A/D converter 2 time each second, you transfert two voltages levels per
second. This is the baud rate, exactely, it's the number of the different
state level per second.
In this example we have:
       Baud rate = 2 Bd/s
       Number of state level = 4
       bit-per-second = 4 bit/s

We can simply determine the Bit-per-second rate as follow:

       Bit per second = baud rate * [ln (Number of state level)] / [ln 2]

If we have only 2 states level (0 or 1 for example), baud rate equal bit rate.
The best example of this difference between bit/S and Bd/s is in a modem.
The Bit/s rate between computer and modem is the same that Bit/s rate
between modem and phone line. But the baud rate is not the same, Modem use
(for example) 8 phase shift modulation to transmit the signal, in this case
Modem baud rate equal 1/3 of computer baud rate.

I hope to be clear enought ...

Regards.
               Philippe.

1995\12\13@031209 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Sigh.  Trying to defend the old true definition of "baud" is about like
trying to defend the old true definition of "hacker".

BillW

1995\12\17@012423 by PETE KLAMMER

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> Sigh.  Trying to defend the old true definition of "baud" is about like
> trying to defend the old true definition of "hacker".
> BillW

(*sigh*) Or the old true spelling of ``kluge''...

Peter F. Klammer                                       RemoveMEPKlammerTakeThisOuTspamACM.Org
w:(303)773-7411 h:(303)233-9485   EEPROM: mere bridge techology to FRAM
11221 West 27th Place       Learn about League for Programming Freedom!
Lakewood, Colorado 80215          by sending email to: spamBeGonelpfspamBeGonespamuunet.uu.net


'What is MPASM error code 302'
1996\04\09@202628 by Wilf Melling
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I have made a start on my very first PIC project, it is to be a home
alarm system (hopefully). So here my very first plea for help, I keep
getting the following message. I have read the manuals but the answer
does not jump out at me.

Message[302] C:\MPASM\HALARM.ASM 40 : Argument out of range.  Least
significant bits used.

Code sample with line numbers:-
39        Movlw   PORT_B_OUT      ;Define PORTB
40        Movwf   TRISB           ;as output

PORT_B_OUT   EQUates to b11111111

If anyone as any tips or know of any similar projects that have code
available to look at I would be VERY grateful.

TIA


--
Wilf Melling
Tel. +44 802 633888

1996\04\09@205810 by Dave Ritchie

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> Message[302] C:\MPASM\HALARM.ASM 40 : Argument out of range.  Least
> significant bits used.
>
> Code sample with line numbers:-
> 39        Movlw   PORT_B_OUT      ;Define PORTB
> 40        Movwf   TRISB           ;as output
>
> PORT_B_OUT   EQUates to b11111111
>
> If anyone as any tips or know of any similar projects that have code
> available to look at I would be VERY grateful.
>
> TIA
>
>
> --
> Wilf Melling
> Tel. +44 802 633888
>

I would start by changing this constant to decimal and retrying the
assembly - the EQU function of the assembler may be getting confused
here.....

-- Dave Ritchie
former assember maintainer for HP....
TakeThisOuTderEraseMEspamspam_OUTatl.hp.com

1996\04\09@210020 by Andrew Warren

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Wilf Melling <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I have made a start on my very first PIC project, it is to be a home
> alarm system (hopefully). So here my very first plea for help, I
> keep getting the following message. I have read the manuals but the
> answer does not jump out at me.
>
> Message[302] C:\MPASM\HALARM.ASM 40 : Argument out of range.  Least
> significant bits used.
>
> Code sample with line numbers:-
> 39        Movlw   PORT_B_OUT      ;Define PORTB
> 40        Movwf   TRISB           ;as output
>
> PORT_B_OUT   EQUates to b11111111

Wilf:

This has nothing to do with your problem, but if you want all the
PORTB pins to be outputs, PORT_B_OUT must equate to 00000000.

Ok...

The MPASM message refers not to PORT_B_OUT but to TRISB.

If you look at the instruction set for your PIC, you'll see that
register-oriented instructions only have room for 7-bit register
addresses, so they can only address 128 registers.  To accomodate
more than 128 registers, PICs employ a banking scheme that uses a few
bits of the STATUS register to select from multiple 128-register
banks.

If you try to directly access a register in any bank other than Bank
0, MPASM won't be able to fit the register's 8-bit address into the
instruction.  Instead, it'll just use the low 7 bits of the
register's address and generate the message you're seeing.

TRISB is located at address 086H, which puts it in Bank 1.  To access
it, you need to select bank 1 (by setting the RP0 bit in the STATUS
register), then write to register 006H.  Before accessing registers on
Bank 0, you'll need to switch back to that page by clearing the
RP0 bit.  Your code should look like this:

   BSF     STATUS,RP0

       MOVLW   PORT_B_OUT
   MOVWF   080H ^ TRISB

   BCF     STATUS,RP0

The "080H ^ TRISB" exclusive-ORs the TRISB address with 080H, thereby
clearing the high bit of the address... It's equivalent to "07FH &
TRISB", "TRISB - 128", and "006H".

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdEraseMEspam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\04\09@234212 by Byron A Jeff

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{Quote hidden}

That's a great explaination Andy. Now can I ask a dumb question?
The 16C84 Datasheet (and I assume the others too) state that the FSR
will utilize all 8 bits of the file address on indirection. So would
the following work?

  movlw     TRISB
  movwf     FSR
  movlw     .0     ; Note that 0 bits are required for output
  movwf     INDF

It's the same number of instructions but I find it slightly more straight-
forward personally.

BTW I just re-read the databook and in fact the IRP bit in the status
register is prepended to the FSR giving a nine bit address. So in fact
4 128 register pages are accessible using indirection. Cool.

BAJ

1996\04\10@001802 by Andrew Warren

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Byron A Jeff <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> That's a great explaination Andy. Now can I ask a dumb question? The
> 16C84 Datasheet (and I assume the others too) state that the FSR
> will utilize all 8 bits of the file address on indirection. So would
> the following work?
>
>    movlw     TRISB
>    movwf     FSR
>    movlw     .0     ; Note that 0 bits are required for output
>    movwf     INDF
>
> It's the same number of instructions but I find it slightly more
> straight- forward personally.

   Byron:

   Yes, that will work perfectly.  Keep in mind that, although it's
   no longer than the bank-switching code FOR ACCESSING ONE
   REGISTER, it's much less efficient for cases that require
   multiple register accesses.

> BTW I just re-read the databook and in fact the IRP bit in the
> status register is prepended to the FSR giving a nine bit address.
> So in fact 4 128 register pages are accessible using indirection.

   Well, yeah... If any of the 16C6x, 7x, or 8x parts had more than
   2 pages, it'd be pretty useful.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdspam_OUTspamKILLspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\04\10@132120 by John Payson

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> >    movlw     TRISB
> >    movwf     FSR
> >    movlw     .0     ; Note that 0 bits are required for output
> >    movwf     INDF
> >
> > It's the same number of instructions but I find it slightly more
> > straight- forward personally.
>
>     Byron:
>
>     Yes, that will work perfectly.  Keep in mind that, although it's
>     no longer than the bank-switching code FOR ACCESSING ONE
>     REGISTER, it's much less efficient for cases that require
>     multiple register accesses.

While in most cases it makes more sense to use direct addressing with RP0
set/unset as appropriate, indirect addressing can be useful when rapidly
accessing registers in both banks.  For example, if you need rapidly and
repeatedly set TRISB and PORTB, it may make sense to point FSR to TRISB, so
that it may be accessed without any intermediate accesses to RP0.  This
technique can pay off especially well when trying to rapidly read the EEPROM
on a 16C84 [point FSR to EECTRL1].


'Setting up TMR1, what am I missing?'
1996\05\15@222506 by Xaq
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Once again, I must be missing something.

I am trying to set up the TMR1, on the '74, as a timer with a prescaler of 4
that will trigger an interrupt on overflow.

This is what I have setup so far:

       Intcon  - GIE =1                ;global int's enabled
                 the rest=0

       PIE1    - TMR1IE =1             ;enable TMR1IF interrupt
                 the rest=0

       T1CON   - TMR1ON=1              ;starts timer
                 T1CKPS0=0             ;sets prescaler
                 T1CKPS0=1             ;  "  "
                 the rest=0

I have had no problems using TMR0, but TMR1 just wont work.  My int-service
routine just buzzes a buzzer to let me know that the overflow has happened.
But, I get no buzz.  I am not even trying to desern which interrupt has
happened, just buzz the buzzer.


Thanks for your help

Zach


PS  I know the buzzer is working   : )

1996\05\15@224635 by fastfwd

face
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Xaq <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I am trying to set up the TMR1, on the '74, as a timer with a
> prescaler of 4 that will trigger an interrupt on overflow.
> ....
>         Intcon  - GIE =1                ;global int's enabled
>                   the rest=0
>
>         PIE1    - TMR1IE =1             ;enable TMR1IF interrupt
>                   the rest=0
>
>         T1CON   - TMR1ON=1              ;starts timer
>                   T1CKPS0=0             ;sets prescaler
>                   T1CKPS0=1             ;  "  "
>                   the rest=0
>
> .... TMR1 just wont work.

   Zack:

   Set the PEIE bit in the INTCON register.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdspamspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\05\15@232159 by Xaq

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>>.... TMR1 just wont work.
>
>    Zack:
>
>    Set the PEIE bit in the INTCON register.

Thanks Andy, but I had already tried that and it still didn't work.  Are the
timers peripherals?  Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Zach

1996\05\16@050527 by Jim Main

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>I am trying to set up the TMR1, on the '74, as a timer with a prescaler of 4
>that will trigger an interrupt on overflow.
>
>This is what I have setup so far:
>
>        Intcon  - GIE =1                ;global int's enabled
>                  the rest=0
>
>        PIE1    - TMR1IE =1             ;enable TMR1IF interrupt
>                  the rest=0
>
>        T1CON   - TMR1ON=1              ;starts timer
>                  T1CKPS0=0             ;sets prescaler
>                  T1CKPS0=1             ;  "  "
>                  the rest=0

PEIE needs to be set - as already stated by Andrew Warren

TMR1CS needs to be 0 (internal clock)
T1OSCEN could be turned off for good measure as well

Are you remembering to initialise the TMR1H and TMR1L registers - as well as
re-loading them when entering the interrupt service routine?

Also, did you clear PIR1  - TMR1IF before you enabled the interrupt for the
first time (and does your interrupt service routine clear it again?)

I did all that, and mine is quite happily giving me a 2mS interrupt...

Jim


'Zach's math problem(and what he's building)'
1996\06\13@153040 by Xaq
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I think I already found my answer, but thanks for all the responses.

First, I neglected to say in my first post, that I needed the answer to be a
scaled value that fits into a single byte.  I realize that the value will be
a small decimal.

What I plan to do is use the original equation and just check for a carry
after the 16 bit addition.  If there is a carry, than divide the answer
under the sqrt by 16(this will keep it under 16 bits). Then multiply by 4
after the sqrt.  Does that make sense?  It looks good on paper, but I
haven't actually coded it.


As far as what I am building, well it is a long story.  Basically It is a
computer controlled laser cutting/engraving system.  The PIC is used to
control the laser's power (using PWM). An x/y positioning system is used to
move a mirror/lens assembly to aim the laser.  The problem is that this
assembly moves slower when it draws curves. Slower the laser moves the
deeper it cuts.  I would like to cut at a stable depth, so the PIC needs to
constantly adjust the power while the assembly is moving.  I have two
signals coming from the assembly, these correspond to speed in the x and y
direction.  Actually it outputs pulse trains that have frequencies that are
inversely proportional to speed.  I measure the period of the waves and then
plug those numbers into the equation that I have been talking about.  (The
equation is just the pathagerian's <sp?> equation with the input values
inverted)  The equation I posted about a month ago is being used to
calculate the overall PWM value.


As far as what this does, well, it can cut and engrave wood, plastics,
rubber, cardboard, glass ...    anything but metal(I am using a 25watt C02,
I need between 50 and 200 watts to really cut metal).  It is very precise.
I have cut plastic gears and other mechanical parts.  It's great for
prototyping.

I am hoping to have a sellable product soon.  It is in a
self-contained(except for the exhaust) closed unit approximately 5'x4'x4'.
Lots of safety features.  It fits nicely in my living room :^)   no joke!


Thanks for your help,


Zach


P.S.  For those who are concerned about all this waisted band-width, sorry.
     But, maybe this will inspire someone to build something similar.


'What value caps to use with 20mhz crystal?'
1996\07\17@124348 by NEIL GANDLER
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face
Many people have kept it simple and basically recommended 20pF
caps for use witha 4mhz crystal. Anyone know a good value for use
with a 20mhz crystal?

               Neil Gandler

'What is the biggest SRAM TSOP available?'
1996\07\24@105208 by Rob Roy

flavicon
face
Greetings;

       Is the 4 Megabit (various cfg's 512KX8, 1MX32) the largest
available SRAM?

       I DO NOT WANT TO USE FLASH!

Rob Roy
TRACOR AEL
RemoveMErroyaelKILLspamspamlaser.net--
                   Rob Roy
rroyaelSTOPspamspamspam_OUTlaser.net
spamBeGonerroyaelSTOPspamspamEraseMEaol.com

1996\07\29@115144 by james

flavicon
face
Rob Roy wrote:
>
>         Is the 4 Megabit (various cfg's 512KX8, 1MX32) the largest
> available SRAM?
>
>
               Rob Roy

YES.

--
James Musselman
President
Radix/Cobalt Instruments, Inc.
PO Box 897
Clovis, CA 93612 USA
tel 209-297-9000     fax 209-297-9400

1996\07\29@135416 by Tim Drury

flavicon
face
>         Is the 4 Megabit (various cfg's 512KX8, 1MX32) the largest
> available SRAM?
>

White Microelectronics have a 512Kx32 SRAM module that is
configuration to 1024Kx16 and 2Mx8.  But its packages are a
66-pin HIP (?), or a 68-lead CQFP.

-tim


'PIC - what does it mean?'
1996\08\14@131816 by John B C Walker
flavicon
picon face
Dear All,

I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...

I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
mean? etc. etc.

Can anybody (i.e. Andy Warren or Microchip) help?

Thanks.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: KILLspamceejbcwspamBeGonespamcee.hw.ac.uk
              EraseMEceejbwspamEraseMEpp.hw.ac.uk
              @spam@ceejbw@spam@spamspam_OUTtorduff.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\08\14@133910 by Byron A Jeff

flavicon
picon face
>
> Dear All,
>
> I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...
>
> I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
> handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
> mean? etc. etc.

Peripheral (sp) Interface Controller.

Don't remember where I read it.

BAJ

1996\08\14@140219 by Brian Boles

flavicon
face
    Although I am not a PIC originator...   I have heard that PIC is from
    "Programmable Interface Controller"  in that the architecture was
    first envisioned as a programmable interface for larger (mainframe)
    computers.

    Rgds, Brian.



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: PIC - what does it mean?
Author:  John B C Walker <spamBeGoneceejbcwspamKILLspamCEE.HW.AC.UK> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    8/14/96 3:53 PM


Dear All,

I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...

I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
mean? etc. etc.

Can anybody (i.e. Andy Warren or Microchip) help?

Thanks.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: .....ceejbcwspam_OUTspamcee.hw.ac.uk
              TakeThisOuTceejbw.....spamTakeThisOuTpp.hw.ac.uk
              TakeThisOuTceejbwKILLspamspamspamtorduff.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\08\14@152819 by Dana Frank Raymond

flavicon
face
>handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it

General Instruments (the originator of the PIC) called it a "Perpheral
Interface Controller" as it was intended to offload peripheral management
from the main processor.

If I remember correctly, PICs in those days were NMOS and masked ROM only.
Microchip (which I believe was a GI spin-off) has taken it a long way (due
in part to Motorola supply shortages. Motorola OWNS the embedded world, or
at least USED to).

Regards, Dana Frank Raymond
.....dfrspamRemoveMEicom.ca

1996\08\14@163304 by Brian Boles

flavicon
face
    Brian,

    I'm sorry to contradict you, but I've always heard it "Peripheral
    Interface Controller"

    Jim


______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
Subject: Re: PIC - what does it mean?
Author:  Brian Boles <RemoveMEbbolesspamspamBeGoneCCMAIL.MICROCHIP.COM> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    8/14/96 10:56 AM


    Although I am not a PIC originator...   I have heard that PIC is from
    "Programmable Interface Controller"  in that the architecture was
    first envisioned as a programmable interface for larger (mainframe)
    computers.

    Rgds, Brian.



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: PIC - what does it mean?
Author:  John B C Walker <spamBeGoneceejbcw@spam@spamspam_OUTCEE.HW.AC.UK> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    8/14/96 3:53 PM


Dear All,

I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...

I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
mean? etc. etc.

Can anybody (i.e. Andy Warren or Microchip) help?

Thanks.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: TakeThisOuTceejbcwspamspamcee.hw.ac.uk
              ceejbwEraseMEspampp.hw.ac.uk
              RemoveMEceejbwEraseMEspamspam_OUTtorduff.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\08\14@164557 by Mark K Sullivan

flavicon
face
I propose that it should mean:

"PIC Integrated Circuit" since everyone (present) knows what a PIC is.

It's a *recursive* acronym, see.

- Mark Sullivan -

1996\08\14@182023 by Henry Carl Ott

picon face
At 03:19 PM 8/14/96 +0600, you wrote:
>>handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
>
>General Instruments (the originator of the PIC) called it a "Perpheral
>Interface Controller" as it was intended to offload peripheral management
>from the main processor.


I believe the fist time I saw a PIC (if it was even called that) used was
to replace the Intel 8048 microprocessor in a Mouse Systems Mouse. I
remember the circuit board was drilled to take either the 8048 or the GI
part. (We were ripping the micros out of the mice and running the optical
encoders straight into our Amiga 1000S, but that is another story)

carl

----------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ   | talk/chat  carlott@204.74.7.186
@spam@carlottRemoveMEspamEraseMEinterport.net    | http://www.interport.net/~carlott/
----------------------------------------------------------------
"A day job...in an office? My worst nightmare!"-Ticknophobia

1996\08\15@022339 by adrian

flavicon
picon face
<EraseME199608141718.NAA10487spam@spam@gemini.cc.gatech.edu> Byron A Jeff wrote:

> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...
> >
> > I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
> > handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
> > mean? etc. etc.
>
> Peripheral (sp) Interface Controller.
>
> Don't remember where I read it.

That's one meaning, but not the appropriate one in this context I think.


--
_                                  FREE SMS->Fax -  Call 0973 577510
(_) _| _ . _  _   Tel 07050 ADRIAN  Nokia orange in stock *NOW*. E&OE
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  Fax  0500 222258  http://www.rhanna.demon.co.uk/aa/

1996\08\15@065756 by all (Stephen Birchall)

flavicon
face
>Dear All,
>
>I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...
>
>I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
>handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
>mean? etc. etc.
>
>Can anybody (i.e. Andy Warren or Microchip) help?
>

I've always understood it to mean peripheral interface controller

however, if you say pic to most people they associate it with the 8259A -
this is a programmable interrupt controller and is part of the PC
architecture

hence the possibility of confusion

cheers - Steve

1996\08\15@154415 by Long, Mike

picon face
Peripheral Interrupt Controller in the Intel world.

Peripheral Interface Controller in the Microchip world.


----------
From: John B C Walker
To: Multiple recipients of list PICLIST
Subject: PIC - what does it mean?
Date: Wednesday, August 14, 1996 7:53AM

Dear All,

I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...

I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be
awful
handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
mean? etc. etc.

Can anybody (i.e. Andy Warren or Microchip) help?

Thanks.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: @spam@ceejbcwspam_OUTspam.....cee.hw.ac.uk
              spamBeGoneceejbwEraseMEspampp.hw.ac.uk
              ceejbwspamBeGonespamtorduff.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\08\16@122005 by tom

flavicon
picon face
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I'm sure this question has been asked by a great deal of people...
> >
> > I've just started writing my thesis for the project and it would be awful
> > handy to know what 'PIC' actually meant. Is it an acronym? What does it
> > mean? etc. etc.
>
> Peripheral (sp) Interface Controller.
>
> Don't remember where I read it.

It couldn't have been in the PIC FAQ, could it?   :)
--
Tom.
Check out the PIC FAQ at;
digiserve.com/takdesign/pic-faq/faqindex.html

'What time is it?'
1996\08\28@083734 by Mark Jurras

flavicon
face
Hey Octavio,

How come the date on your computer is set to 1995?

- -Mark

1996\08\28@104125 by nogueira

flavicon
face
Mark Jurras wrote:
>
> Hey Octavio,
>
> How come the date on your computer is set to 1995?
>
> - -Mark

I'm sorry about this, I've fixed the date.

Octavio
--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
e-mail:   RemoveMEnogueira@spam@spamspamBeGonemandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
========================================================
"ProPic" The first Production PIC Programmer running in
Windows and under US$ 20.00.
Avaible at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato


'What to buy?'
1996\09\04@035751 by Nikolai A. Zaharugin
flavicon
face
Hello all,
I am starting up to study PIC microcontrollers and I don't know which
programmer to buy.

PICSTART+ : Does fit well for me if I intended to programme 100-150 chips per
month? (i.e. for a serial product)
May be PRO MATE? But may be not worth to spend money? I don't understand what
does it give really...quality programm?...verifications? or still anything?

Many thanks.


--

Nikolai A.Zaharugin          LOGIKA Corp.,
                             Kurliandsckaya str.,1
                             St.-Petersburg, 198103, RUSSIA
                             Phone (812) 259 4319
.....zan@spam@spamEraseMElogika.spb.su            Fax   (812) 251 4493

1996\09\04@045641 by Andy Errington

flavicon
face
>Hello all,
>I am starting up to study PIC microcontrollers and I don't know which
>programmer to buy.
Hi Nikolai,

If you are interested from a hobbyist point of view you should perhaps
use the PIC16C84 as your development processor, and build your own
programmer.  If you have a PC you can put together a development system
for less than 10GBP (approx 15US$).  If you have never used a PIC this
will allow you to play around without costing too much.

The PIC series of chips have many features in common, so anything you
learn with a PIC84 can be applied to any other PIC chip, the only
differences being extra on-chip functions, e.g. ADC input, SPI port,
serial port etc., and memory paging (aargh!).

However if you intend to program many chips you will need a commercial
quality programmer for two reasons:

1) They have support for most (if not all) PIC chips
2) They are certified to program and verify at the extremes of the
programming specification, so you can be sure your code is correctly
downloaded to the chip.  (a home-built PIC84 programmer cannot be
guaranteed like this)

Take your time, and ask plenty of questions on the PICLIST.  You are
sure to get helpful, correct and consistent replies.

Best wishes,

Andy (the other one)

PS You can find some beginners stuff on my Web page at

http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/cpaame/pic/pic.htm
>

1996\09\04@063233 by Alexej Vladimirov

flavicon
face
Hello Nikolai,

04 Sep 96, .....zanRemoveMEspamlogika.spb.su writes to all:

P> I am starting up to study PIC microcontrollers and I don't know which
P> programmer to buy.

P> PICSTART+ : Does fit well for me if I intended to programme 100-150
P> chips per month? (i.e. for a serial product)
P> May be PRO MATE? But may be not worth to spend money? I don't
P> understand what does it give really...quality programm?
P> ...verifications? or still anything?

The main difference between development programmers (PICSTART+, COMPIC-1/5X and
many others) and production quality programmers (PROMATE-II, COMPIC-PRO and
also some others) is variable Vdd and Vpp during programming and verification.

As noted at Microchip's programming specifications, for production
quality programmers Vdd should be varied from 2.0 till 6.5V with 0.25V
granularity (DS30190D, p.3), Vpp should be varied from 12 till 14V with
0.25V granularity (DS30337A, p.1).

The main reason for variable Vdd is the following: Vdd in the real device can
be different, than during programming/verification.

Below is very simplified description.
For example, you want to have Vdd=6V in some application. You program PIC on the
development programmer with Vdd=5V. For example, some cells programmed to the
2.8V level. This cells readed as "1"(programmed) at Vdd=5V, but possibly will
reads as "0"(unprogrammed) at Vdd=6V. This will lead to hard-to-find errors (I
have this experience).
Second case. You want to have Vdd=2V. In this case some program cells,
readed as "0"(cleared) at Vdd=5V, possibly will reads as "1"(non-cleared)
at Vdd=2V. This error occurs, when you partially clear UV erasable development
chip. For example, some cells cleared to the 1.5V level. It reads fully cleared
at Vdd=5V, but reads as "1" at Vdd=2V.

Conclusions: You can use development programmer, if you use Vdd=5V+-5% in your
            applications. You should use production quality programmer in any
            other cases.

Best regards.

Alexej Vladimirov  .....avladSTOPspamspam@spam@mail.ormix.riga.lv
http://www.ormix.riga.lv/eng/mchip/mchip.htm
...more than 160 Microchip-related links now...

--- GoldED/2 2.50+

1996\09\25@162939 by Alex I. Torres

flavicon
face
> 04 Sep 96, Alexej Vladimirov writes to Nikolai Zaharugin :

> The main difference between development programmers
> (PICSTART+, COMPIC-1/5X and many others) and production
> quality programmers (PROMATE-II, COMPIC-PRO and also some
> others) is variable Vdd and Vpp during programming and
> verification.

>
> As noted at Microchip's programming specifications, for
> production quality programmers Vdd should be varied from 2.0
> till 6.5V with 0.25V granularity (DS30190D, p.3), Vpp should
> be varied from 12 till 14V with 0.25V granularity (DS30337A,
> p.1).
>
> The main reason for variable Vdd is the following: Vdd in
> the real device can be different, than during
> programming/verification.

Yes, I'm agree, but what is the reason to use variable Vpp ?

-------------------------------
  Best Wishes, Alex Torres.
  Kharkov, Ukraine, exUSSR.
  E-Mail To : altorEraseMEspam@spam@cook.kharkov.ua   via InterNet
              or 2:461/28             via FidoNet

---  GoldED 2.50.A0531+
* PICLAB->Semi-Production-Quality Programmer
* for 16Cxx,24xx,93xx - OK.
* 14000 - implemented but not tested.
* only $40 !!!
* no external power, MsDos and Windows software.


'What in the world???'
1996\10\04@221937 by Todd Peterson
picon face
I think I have discovered a flaw in programming.

Maybe.

I am doing *EVERYTHING* right in my playings around with the MPLAB-C Demo
software with MPLAB, but I can't make the first example program in the
instruction manual compile!  This cannot be!

Well, I shouldn't say that I cannot get it to compile.  I just can't use the
'*' or '/' operators - anything that calls the math.h library.  If I replace
these operators with a '+', everything works fine.  I have put the correct
path to the #include's in the program, with "" around them as directed in
the manual.  I have set the compiler path properly in the setup menu.  Has
anyone else seen this sort of problem before?

I'm running windows 95, so perhps the setup program couldn't alter my path
as it would have liked to.

I usually try to stay on the "answering" side of questions on this list, but
a problem so embarrassing as this (I cannot compile a simple c example; the
first one nonetheless) deserves public attention!  Maybe I need to rest for
a few days...

Any ideas?


-Todd Peterson

P.S. - It seems to be looking for code at __MUL8X8 or something to that
effect. I see that this code is in the library MPLABC12.  My understanding
was that this library does not need to be placed in a #include directive in
the main c program.

P.P.S. - As a fair warning, this is not the first time I have done
everything *PERFECTLY* right and had nothing work.  You all as well, I suppose.

1996\10\07@075409 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Todd Peterson <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I am doing *EVERYTHING* right in my playings around with the MPLAB-C
> Demo software with MPLAB, but I can't make the first example program
> in the instruction manual compile!
> ....
> I just can't use the '*' or '/' operators - anything that calls the
> math.h library.
> ....
> I'm running windows 95, so perhps the setup program couldn't alter
> my path as it would have liked to.
> ....
> P.S. - It seems to be looking for code at __MUL8X8 or something to
> that effect. I see that this code is in the library MPLABC12.  My
> understanding was that this library does not need to be placed in a
> #include directive in the main c program.

Todd:

You're correct; the MPLABC1x.LIB libraries do not have to be
explicitly #included in your source-code... MPLAB-C will draw from
them as needed.

I suspect that you're also right about your PATH problem, although I
don't use Win95, so I don't know for sure.  Try copying the .LIB
files to your source-code directory and see if that makes any
difference.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'For what its worth (was programming problems)'
1996\10\08@111516 by Martin J. Maney

flavicon
face
On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, John Miskimins wrote:

> I use both  Macs and DOS boxes.  I prefer the Mac for both development and
> "writing manuals" and other graphics intensive tasks.  I use a windows
> based machine because there some apps out there that are only written for
> that platform.

Yeah, that description was moderately provocative, wasn't it?  <grin>
However, it did accurately represent my own first-hand experiences.
FWIW, the Macs were most often used for graphics and animation, and I
don't think any of these folks that I know actively prefer to move from
another platform to the Mac just to document the work they've done.  But
I didn't want to leave that without alluding to the set of apps that
carved out the Mac's original niche - a solid base that still helps
anchor the Mac in the marketplace.

> There is no single "best" machine.  Publishing the interface specifications
> for the programmers that are out there would seem like a sensible thing to
> do even if there were only one platform.

Yeah, but the vendors still tend to consider such things proprietary -
and there's some justification for protecting the work they've done
developing such hardware in many cases.  It does seem that it would be
entirely to Microchip's benefit to reveal such things, since they're not
really in that business except as it supports the sales of their
microcontrollers - at least, there would be a strong argument in favor of
being open on their part.

1996\10\08@134915 by Wireless Scientific

flavicon
face
At 9:18 AM 10/8/96, Martin J. Maney wrote:
>Yeah, but the vendors still tend to consider such things proprietary -
>and there's some justification for protecting the work they've done
>developing such hardware in many cases.  It does seem that it would be
>entirely to Microchip's benefit to reveal such things, since they're not
>really in that business except as it supports the sales of their
>microcontrollers - at least, there would be a strong argument in favor of
>being open on their part.


Companies don't develop such things, people do. If someone out "sells"
Microchip on the idea then they may pay for it. However in this case I
think a Mac version of PIC development tools is probably not going to sell.

craig
ps. I've always had a Mac and will always have a Mac for code development.
For me, nothing else even comes close (I use DOS, 3.1, 95, NT, and Linux
all day long).

'What subjects are apropriated?'
1996\10\21@151837 by Luiz Marques

flavicon
face
Hi All

I've noted several electronic related subjects in PICLIST, since this is a
unmoderated list (no problem). But I guess this will better done if we can
use a specific Electronic Design list to those subjects.

I suggest to people in the PICLIST that deal with electronic *and* not-PIC
related stuff to subscribe the Electronic Design and Development List
(EDESIGN)  MailTo:LISTSERVspam_OUTspam@spam@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca  with message:
subscribe EDESIGN  your_real_name

Since the most of PICLIST's gurus have eletronics expertise they can
exchance information in the EDESIGN list too. I love electronics too!

And I repeat this is olny a suggestion.

Follows some messages about this matter.


{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
{Quote hidden}

Sorry for delay Pedro. EDESIGN it's not very active but is well tuned in
electronics.

Luiz Marques

'What's the difference bet. the 16b1 and PicStartPl'
1996\10\25@170828 by Jerome Knapp

flavicon
face
What's the difference between these two programmers?
Thanks.

EraseMEjjknapRemoveMEspamSTOPspamskcla.monsanto.com

1996\10\26@013230 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Jerome Knapp <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> What's the difference between these two programmers?

Jerome:

Also, the PicStart Plus programs ALL the PICs, from the 8-pin 12C50x
to the 17C44.  The 16B1 programs only a small subset.

Also, the 16B1 doesn't interface directly with MPLAB; it's controlled
by a DOS program called MPSTART.  On the other hand, the PicStart
Plus REQUIRES MPLAB, which means that you can only use it if your PC
is running Windows.

The PicStart Plus comes in a nice case and satisfies European CE
requirements for emitted radiation; the 16B1 is a bare board and
doesn't.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspam@spam@ix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

1996\10\26@170647 by Gerhard Fiedler

flavicon
face
At 22:35 25/10/96 -0800, Andrew Warren wrote:
>> What's the difference between these two programmers?
>
>Also, the PicStart Plus programs ALL the PICs, from the 8-pin 12C50x
>to the 17C44.  The 16B1 programs only a small subset.
>
>The PicStart Plus comes in a nice case and satisfies European CE
>requirements for emitted radiation; the 16B1 is a bare board and
>doesn't.

The strange thing that made me ask this before is that they cost about the
same...

'What Emulator to buy?'
1996\10\31@191209 by MARK SYMONDS

flavicon
picon face
Hi guys ,
Got a job here at the Uni to aquire some data in a self contained
unit. I can use a 16 bit A/D but what I want to know is I can
probably squeeze and emulator out of them so which one should I go
for. Im mainly  use 16C74,16c84,16c55,16c71.
I have no idea which emulators do what and what pods? are available.
Any help appreciated. I will also probably use a FLASH memory module
1mb*16 anyone had experience with these?

Urendi Maleldil !.....Mark
RemoveMEmark.symondsspam_OUTspameng.monash.edu.au
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I could be bounded in a nutshell and
count myself king of infinite space."
                     Shakespeare..Hamlet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1996\10\31@194746 by Steve Hardy

flavicon
face
> From: MARK SYMONDS <Mark.Symondsspamspameng.monash.edu.au>
>
> Hi guys ,
> Got a job here at the Uni to aquire some data in a self contained
> unit. I can use a 16 bit A/D but what I want to know is I can
> probably squeeze and emulator out of them so which one should I go
> for. Im mainly  use 16C74,16c84,16c55,16c71.
> I have no idea which emulators do what and what pods? are available.
> Any help appreciated. I will also probably use a FLASH memory module
> 1mb*16 anyone had experience with these?

I use a Clearview XX from Parallax.  Only got one pod which does the
16C74/73 (not sure but could also do the 71 but I don't have the doc
on me).  Since I am too cheap to buy the 84 pod, I use it in 74 mode
and emulate the EEPROM function in software (the bank 1 registers in
the 74 make a good place to store the 84's 'EEPROM').  With a few
other kludges it works OK.

The Australian distributors are very helpful (Alfa-Tek in Melbourne)
and have always sent software upgrades gratis whenever I had a problem.
Not that there were too many problems considering that I always use
things to the max.

The Clearview XX ICE does arbitrary breakpoints based on execution location
only (can't say 'stop when register X is updated' etc., but I think this
is common to all the emulators which are based on bondout chips).  The
newer Clearview Mathias also allows add-ons for timing and execution
history.  Look at Parallax's web site.

Regards,
SJH
Canberra, Australia

PS: debugging PIC code (especially realtime) without an emulator is about
a thousand times harder than with one. _Well_ worth the money.


'still fuzzy (my head or what?)'
1996\11\02@230216 by Gerhard Fiedler
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face
I just had a brief look at the PIC app note AN600, which describes a fuzzy
solution. It shure does _not_ look intuitive, seems like one of those
examples where a classical solution would give a far more intuitive solution
(and maybe a better working one). Is this just a bad (or a badly done)
example, or do all fuzzy solutions look similar, with hundreds of "rules",
not a bit "intuitive"?

'Who, what, where, why?'
1996\11\06@014750 by Dennis Frost

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face
Hi everyone,

I would like to make a suggestion.
A lot of people use the piclist to get information on suppliers for one or
another PIC related product or service.
If you are only looking for local supplies then state this.
It then makes sense to include where you are from.
It is useless for people like me in Africa giving a person in the USA for
example, the name of one of our local suppliers or visa versa (Unless it is
something very specialized). Chances are it will be more easily available &
cheaper to get it locally.
If people know you are from abroad looking for a local supply they won't
waste your time & theirs with a reply.

I also like to see a world location out of pure interest. It's always good
to know about who you are talking to.

Maybe I am just nosy...   :-)

Thanks everyone for all the help in the past.

Cheers
       Dennis
____________________________________________________
FROST - Electronic Design, Manufacture & Consulting.
Dennis Frost
Tel:   +27 331 965125
Cel:   +83 2275216
Email: spam_OUTdennis.frostspam_OUTspamspam_OUTpixie.co.za
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
____________________________________________________


'who owns what rights??'
1996\12\13@210032 by Stuart Allman
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I recently finished my six month delve into Dolby Pro-Logic and wrote my
own algorithm on an AD ez-kit lite.  I was wondering if it would be OK to
publish my work on the web?  Would I be violating any patent laws or
special rights that Dolby has to their product?  I thought this subject
went beyond just DSP programming, so it might be an interesting discussion
for the list to tackle.

The work I did, I feel, is "clean room".  The only things I had to work
with is the Dolby spec that they released to the general public on their
web page.  In this case, what type of disclaimers should I include with my
work if I choose to publish it?

Thanks,

Stuart Allman
studiospam_OUTspamhalcyon.com

1996\12\14@111706 by n Medical Technologies

flavicon
face
Stuart Allman wrote:
>
> I recently finished my six month delve into Dolby Pro-Logic and wrote my
> own algorithm on an AD ez-kit lite.  I was wondering if it would be OK to
> publish my work on the web?  Would I be violating any patent laws or
> special rights that Dolby has to their product?  I thought this subject
> went beyond just DSP programming, so it might be an interesting discussion
> for the list to tackle.
>
> The work I did, I feel, is "clean room".  The only things I had to work
> with is the Dolby spec that they released to the general public on their
> web page.  In this case, what type of disclaimers should I include with my
> work if I choose to publish it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stuart Allman
> RemoveMEstudioKILLspamspam@spam@halcyon.com

I'm not a lawyer, but...

It seems to me that unless there is something in the language that they
use where they give the spec, such as, "by using this spec you agree not
to write code that implements it...", then you can do anything that you
want.

Be careful, though, not to infringe on the Dolby trademark.  For example
that better to advertise as "software that, as far as I can tell,
achieves the specifications of the Dolby Pro-Logic system as outlined on
their web page", rather than "genuine Dolby Pro-Logic stereo code, right
here folks".

Best of luck,

Al Cohen
Boston Medical Technologies

1996\12\14@140013 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   > The work I did, I feel, is "clean room".

   Unless they said "by using this spec you agree not, to write code that
   implements it..."

I think your code would unquestionably be infringing the Dolby Patents.
Unlike copyright and "trade secret" protection, "clean room" techniques and
using only public information do not buy you anything (after all the patents
themselves are public.)  Whether They'd be upset at you is a separate
question - I think they'd be more inclined to go after people who try to
use your code in commercial products (you'd probably be after those too!)

You could always try asking...

BillW
(Not a lawyer either)

1996\12\14@141054 by Stuart Allman

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face
On Sat, 14 Dec 1996, William Chops Westfield wrote:

>     > The work I did, I feel, is "clean room".
>
>     Unless they said "by using this spec you agree not, to write code that
>     implements it..."
>
> I think your code would unquestionably be infringing the Dolby Patents.
> Unlike copyright and "trade secret" protection, "clean room" techniques and
> using only public information do not buy you anything (after all the patents
> themselves are public.)  Whether They'd be upset at you is a separate
> question - I think they'd be more inclined to go after people who try to
> use your code in commercial products (you'd probably be after those too!)
>
> You could always try asking...
>
> BillW
> (Not a lawyer either)
>

Thanks for all the advise.  I am not planning to make any money off this
project.  I just did it for fun in my spare time.  I think I'll just write
to Dolby and ask how they would feel about it.  I cannot call my project
Dolby Pro-Logic for the reason that the Dolby Pro-Logic name is owned by
dolby and the software I wrote does not meet the entire spec.  I don't
have the time or money for lawyers, so I might have to blow off the whole
deal if Dolby even whinces.

Stuart Allman
studiospamBeGonespam.....halcyon.com

1996\12\14@160829 by John E. Nelson

picon face
>Thanks for all the advise.  I am not planning to make any money off this
>project.  I just did it for fun in my spare time.  I think I'll just write
>to Dolby and ask how they would feel about it.  I cannot call my project
>Dolby Pro-Logic for the reason that the Dolby Pro-Logic name is owned by
>dolby and the software I wrote does not meet the entire spec.  I don't
>have the time or money for lawyers, so I might have to blow off the whole
>deal if Dolby even whinces.
>

It seems that what you did was for educational purposes. A patent cannot be
used to prevent "exploration" of an area of knowledge. If you attempt to
commercialize your exploration then you have a problem. Publishing a
schematic or code of a product is OK as well as long as you don't copy it
exactly or in toto and clearly reference the source of your information. If
you wish to excerpt portions of the patent itself for discussion in
educational forums that is ok as well. Don't publish a schematic or code as
is though as then you would be violating a copyright.

PS: I am not a lawyer, my opinions are not to be construed as legal advice.

1996\12\15@101103 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
In a message dated 96-12-14 16:10:27 EST, you write:

>It seems that what you did was for educational purposes. A patent cannot be
>used to prevent "exploration" of an area of knowledge. If you attempt to
>commercialize your exploration then you have a problem.

I think that there is some legal rules about USING patented technology even
if you don't sell it.  I believe that this is similar to a process patent
where a company patents something used only internally and not sold but
doesn't want their competition to have the cost savings, etc. of the
technique.  Can anyone comment on this as it may also have legal implications
(but likely not enforced) to the hobby community??

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850 --- Fax:  (716) 328-1144
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1996\12\15@115430 by John E. Nelson

picon face
>process patent where a company patents something used only internally and
not
>sold but doesn't want their competition to have the cost savings, etc. of
the
>technique.

A process patent is a patent placed upon a technique or process that is
used to produce a product. You can investigate and study the process
without infringing upon another's patent. A patent cannot prevent further
discoveries and patents.  You cannot put the process that is patented into
production though, even if it is to produce something other than what
thepatent holder is producing.

1996\12\15@154504 by Brooke

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Hi:

Some comments about patents:

(1) I worked for a company that had microwave ferrites in it's product
line.
   The basic ferrite idea was patented by someone else.  We kept track
of
   who the end user was, and if the end user was the U.S. government,
we
   did not have to pay any fees.  I knew an engineer at another company
   that did a lot of government contract work who had a binder full of
   patents that he would use for jobs that were to be sold to the
government.

(2) Heathkit and EICO sold oscilloscope kits that were based on a
patented
   technology.  IMHO they could do this because the end user was an
individual.
   Anyone can use a patented technology for their own personal use.  As
   Don Lancaster says, for a patent holder to go to court and enforce
his
   patent is very costly.  I read somewhere that many companies located
   along the Mississippi river mainly because that patent court
district
   NEVER found for the patent holder.

(3)The Sunnyvale patent library files their patents by CLASS number
rather
  than the patent number (which is random in relation to anything).
This
  allows doing research easily, since all patents on a given topic are
  physically next to each other.  This is a great way to learn about a
  subject because very basic ideas are contained in the "claims"
section
  that do not show up in text books.  Some of the questions on the
piclist
  are canidates for patent searches if the end user is the questioner
or
  the U.S. government.

Have Fun,

Brooke

1996\12\16@140241 by Matthew Mucker

flavicon
face
>Thanks for all the advise.  I am not planning to make any money off this
>project.  I just did it for fun in my spare time.  I think I'll just write
>to Dolby and ask how they would feel about it.  I cannot call my project
>Dolby Pro-Logic for the reason that the Dolby Pro-Logic name is owned by
>dolby and the software I wrote does not meet the entire spec.  I don't
>have the time or money for lawyers, so I might have to blow off the whole
>deal if Dolby even whinces.


There are all kinds of black boxes out there that do (in essence) surround
sound decoding similar to Pro-Logic.  Even the hobbyist electronics
magazines publish such projects.  None of these, I'm sure, are licensed.
Of course, none claim to be Pro-Logic compatible, either.

Legally, I'm no guru (along with the others here), but realistically, I'm
sure Dolby has better things to do than waste money going after you.
(IMHO)  I'd just make sure to avoid using the words Pro-Logic in
association with your product that go any further than "achieves sonic
performance similar to Dolby Pro-Logic..." and be sure to credit the
trademark.

$0.02, please

-Matt


 "DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and
millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million
machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that
cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do
not denote a higher life form."

1996\12\17@102459 by Stuart Allman

flavicon
face
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Matthew Mucker wrote:

{Quote hidden}

The check is in the (e) mail.


> -Matt
>
>
>   "DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and
> millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million
> machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that
> cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do
> not denote a higher life form."
>

'What is T-hunting'
1996\12\31@135353 by Byon Garrabrant

picon face
On 31 Dec 96 at 0:02, "Mark A. Corio" <KILLspamMcoriospam.....AOL.COM> wrote:

> In a message dated 96-12-30 15:00:01 EST, you write:
>
> >To all the frequest posters, Thanks for all the good advice over the
> >past year.  I hope to post more as my experience grows, or as I see
> >more questions in my area (Ham radio, T-hunting, etc.)
>
> What is T-hunting??
>

T-hunting (Transmitter Hunting) is a sport/hobby/execrise which
involves searching for hidden radio transmitters.  Most participants
are ham radio operators.  The way it usually works is this:  One
person hides a radio transmitter somewhere in a very large area (up
to hundreds of square miles).  This radio tranmits audio tones or
Morse code on a particular frequency periodically (30 seconds each
minute).  Hunters, miles away, hear the radio transmissions, and using
directional antennas, attempt to locate the transmitter in the
shortest time, or by driving the fewest miles.  The winner gets (has)
to hide the following month.  Other variations include on-foot hunts
in a large park, multiple transmitters, and VERY clever transmitter
disguises.  Transmitter hunting is also useful for locating downed
aircraft (ELTs), and locating persons interfering with public saftey
radio frequencies.  For more information, check out:

http://www.kvoa.com/byon/thunt/

Byon
______________________________________
Byon Garrabrant  N6BG  spam_OUTbyonspamKILLspamnetcom.com


'what is SKPNC and SKPZ?'
1997\01\02@112852 by Clewer,Brian
flavicon
face
Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
any of my data sheets!



{Quote hidden}

Thanks in advance for any info,
Brian

1997\01\02@125738 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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Clewer,Brian <RemoveMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?

   Brian:

   They're MPASM pseudo-ops... SKPNC ("Skip if No Carry") is
   equivalent to "BTFSC STATUS,C" and SKPZ ("Skip if Zero") is
   equivalent to "BTFSS STATUS,Z".

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

1997\01\02@130357 by Brian Scearce

picon face
> Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
> I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
> any of my data sheets!

I think they are macros themselves that do "skip on no carry" and "skip
on zero".  Shorthand for "BTFSC STATUS, C" and "BTFSS STATUS, Z".

1997\01\02@130400 by az753

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{Quote hidden}

I took the description from MPALC.TXT included with the software.

SKPZ: SKIP ON ZERO
SKPNC: SKIP ON NO CARRY

When I am not sure of an instruction, I run it with the simulator and give
values to the different bits. It is important that each instruction you are
using, you master them.

Good luck with your project.
Jean

1997\01\02@133515 by Bob Fehrenbach

picon face
"Clewer,Brian" <brian.clewerspamspamTELEMATICS.COM> wrote:
>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!

  These are macros that are built into MPASM.  Many people find them
  easier to type and more intuitive to read.

  SKPNC: skip if no carry  =   btfsc  STATUS, C

  SKPZ:  skip if zero  =  btfss  STATUS, Z


--
Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     RemoveMEbfehrenbspamBeGonespamRemoveMEexecpc.com

1997\01\02@133724 by Mike

flavicon
face
>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!
>
>
>
>>>sub_word_literal: macro aaa, lll
>>>
>>>   movlw   low (~(lll) + 1)
>>>   addwf   aaa+1, f
>>>   movlw   high ((~(lll) + 1) & h'ffff')
>>>   skpnc
>>>   addlw   1
>>>   skpnc
>>>   skpz
>>>   addwf   aaa, f
>>>   endm

I'm not a PIC programmer but, I imagine they mean skip no carry and skip
zero...

RGDS


Mike

There is no a'priori reason that the ultimate truth will be interesting
or even useful, those moments of frustration during philosophical debate
would be replaced by the sheer terror which accompanies true knowledge.

1997\01\02@143557 by Gonzalo Palarea

flavicon
At 04:34 PM 1/2/97 PST, you wrote:
>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!
>
SKPNC = BTFSC STATUS,C
SKPZ  = BTFSS STATUS,Z
____________________
Gonzalo Palarea
KILLspamchalospamBeGonespaminfovia.com.gt

1997\01\02@145718 by Jan van der Watt

flavicon
face
The instructions

SKPZ, SKPNZ (Skip if ZERO flag is set/ Skip if ZERO flag is clear)
SKPC, SKPNC (same, just CARRY)

are pseudo-instructions that are understood by at least the Microchip compilers.

The translate into instructions like

BTFSC STATUS,3
BTFSS STATUS,3

If you look at the STATUS register, you'll find that the ZERO flag, and the
CARRY flag (and some others I can recall off-hand) are mapped in that
register. Sometime you want to take different actions depending on what
state the STATUS flags are in, and these SKIP instructions are quite handy.

E.g., you want to decrement a memory location IF it isn't already zero.

TSTF mem_loc
SKPZ
DECF mem_loc,F

(TSTF is another pseudocode that moves the memory file to itself, BUT this
affects the ZERO flag)

Hope it helps.

Jan van der Watt
[I saW ElviS - hE sAT beTWEen me AnD BIgFoOT oN thE UFo]

1997\01\02@145724 by Bob Blick

flavicon
face
>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!


It's a typical redefinition of "btfsc STATUS,C" and "btfss STATUS,Z", it
makes it easier to remember which way skips and which way doesn't.

Cheers, Bob

1997\01\02@151001 by D. R. Chicotel

flavicon
face
At 04:34 PM 1/2/97 PST, you wrote:

>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!
>

SKPNC means 'Skip on No Carry' and SKPZ means 'Skip on Zero'.  They are
equivalent to the following:

#define SKPNC  BTFSC 3, 0     ; Skip on No Carry
#define SKPZ   BTFSS 3, 2     ; Skip on Zero

The following can also be used:

#define CLRC   BCF   3, 0     ; Clear Carry
#define SETC   BSF   3, 0     ; Set Carry
#define SKPC   BTFSS 3, 0     ; Skip on Carry
#define CLRDC  BCF   3, 1     ; Clear Digit Carry
#define SETDC  BSF   3, 1     ; Set Digit Carry
#define SKPDC  BTFSS 3, 1     ; Skip on Digit Carry
#define SKPNDC BTFSC 3, 1     ; Skip on No Digit Carry
#define CLRZ   BCF   3, 2     ; Clear Zero
#define SETZ   BSF   3, 2     ; Set Zero
#define SKPNZ  BTFSC 3, 2     ; Skip on Non Zero

You can embed these mnemonics in the P16Cxx.INC file and make them available
to all your programs automatically.  You can probably come up with more if
you like.  The problem with these short cuts is just what you discovered.
Other people who look at your code may not know how you have defined your
mneumnics and get lost.  They may make your code more readable to you, but
maybe not so readable to others.  It's your call whether you think this is a
good practice or not.

Hope that helps.  DRC  :->

1997\01\02@151007 by Jerry Meng

flavicon
face
At 04:34 PM 1/2/97 PST, you wrote:
>Quite plain and simple, my question is what are the commands SKPNC and SKPZ?
>I see they are used in this macro but what do they do?  I don't see them on
>any of my data sheets!
>
>
>
>>>sub_word_literal: macro aaa, lll
>>>
>>>   movlw   low (~(lll) + 1)
>>>   addwf   aaa+1, f
>>>   movlw   high ((~(lll) + 1) & h'ffff')
>>>   skpnc
>>>   addlw   1
>>>   skpnc
>>>   skpz
>>>   addwf   aaa, f
>>>   endm
Hi Brian,
       You can check the MPASM for windows online help to get the answer.

SKPNC = btfsc status,c  ;Skip on No Carry
SKPZ  = btfss status,z  ;Skip on Zero


Jerry Meng, BA1FB

@spam@ba1fbSTOPspamspam@spam@amsat.org
http://www.srsnet.com/~ba1fb

1997\01\02@204251 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
D. R. Chicotel <PICLISTspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> You can embed these mnemonics in the P16Cxx.INC file and make them
> available to all your programs automatically.  You can probably
> come up with more if you like.  The problem with these short cuts
> is just what you discovered. Other people who look at your code may
> not know how you have defined your mneumnics and get lost.

D.R.:

The pseudo-ops you listed (as well as the two that started this
thread) are all built into MPASM already... There's no need to
define them in an "include" file.

Since they're already understood by MPASM, I don't think their use is
particularly confusing.

Just my opinion... I could be wrong.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspamix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

1997\01\03@073349 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 05:47 PM 1/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

But they are not understood by MPASM for use with the 17Cxx parts. I was
porting 16C5x code over to a 17Cxx part yesterday. Wish I had thought of
defining these pseudo-ops as D.R. suggested instead of spenting 10 minutes
doing a search/replace on all my skpxx instructions!

Jim

'WHAT THA FUCK'
1997\01\04@160214 by torekov.gk

flavicon
face
hmmm why are you sending this shit to me man.

please stop

The harmonic drive is a high ratio gear mechanism consisting of 3
{Quote hidden}

Your description is great but,

"A picture paints a thousand words but why can't I understand such a
clear
and concise description.."

Anybody know where theres a picture of this 'device' ?

Rgds


Mike

Socrates once gave the advice to "by all means get married... If you
get a good wife you will become happy, if you get a bad one you will
become a philosopher."

'two little ones and a BIG one, what ?... ALSO'
1997\01\06@061425 by Kerzer Computers

flavicon
face
I forgot to mention that the inputs need to be monitored all the time, and
call certain routines  depending on their status, all while the timers are
running.


Using a PIC16C84, How do detect two pulses in a  one second  time frame,
check that they are both longer than 100ms and wether or not  they occurred
in half a second or one  second. And to really complicate things, run two
independant timers, one between 1/2 and 4 hours, and the other between 3 and
10 minutes ? Each  one resetable by the pulse train in the begining of this
query ?Are you  able to give me some advice or some code please ? Please
mail me direct so the list does not get cluttered up. Thankyou

Gordon

1997\01\06@061634 by Kerzer Computers

flavicon
face
Using a PIC16C84, How do detect two pulses in a  one second  time frame,
check that they are both longer than 100ms and wether or not  they occurred
in half a second or one  second. And to really complicate things, run two
independant timers, one between 1/2 and 4 hours, and the other between 3 and
10 minutes ? Each  one resetable by the pulse train in the begining of this
query ?Are you  able to give me some advice or some code please ? Please
mail me direct so the list does not get cluttered up. Thankyou

Gordon

1997\01\06@064159 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Thus spake Kerzer Computers (RemoveMEkerzerspamspamSAMARA.CO.ZW):

> Using a PIC16C84, How do detect two pulses in a  one second  time frame,
> check that they are both longer than 100ms and wether or not  they occurred
> in half a second or one  second. And to really complicate things, run two
> independant timers, one between 1/2 and 4 hours, and the other between 3 and
> 10 minutes ? Each  one resetable by the pulse train in the begining of this
> query ?Are you  able to give me some advice or some code please ? Please
> mail me direct so the list does not get cluttered up. Thankyou

This is a reasonable question to answer on the list; that's the point of the
list, is that more more people can learn by listening.

I would approach this problem by performing everything in a big loop,
calling subroutines as appropriate, but doing things in a very fixed
order. The loop should be synchronized to the timer such that at
the beginning of the loop you wait for timer overflow, then reset the
timer to a value to overflow again in a certain time. This is the minimum
resolution of the system - in your case if 100ms is the smallest time you
need to measure, set the loop time to something less than this, e.g. 5ms.

Make the loop work like this:

       Wait for overflow;
       Reset timer;
       Update software timer 1;
       Update software timer 2;
       Check input status; if changed start a software timer
               to measure pulse length;
       etc...

Everything is timed from the basic loop duration - e.g. the 2 independent
timers are done as software timers, using however many bytes of counter as
needed, in units of 5ms or whatever the main loop is. Make sure you can
do everything in the loop in 5ms - if not, do some things only on alternate
loops or less often - use a state variable to divvy up the work, i.e. have
a byte that is incremented each loop time; if bit 0 of the state variable
is set, do things that you need done every second loop time, if bits 0-2
are all set do things you need done every 8th loop (40ms) etc.

This kind of structure will guarantee determinism (but be sure you do not
exceed the loop time - you can check for this by checking the hardware timer
value at the beginning of the loop - if it has already overflowed you took
too long - also toggle an output and watch it with a CRO - look for long
pulses) and is easy to add new tasks, without the overhead of true
multi-tasking. It is likely you will not need interrupts (which add
non-determinism) or at least use interrupts only for very minimal
stuff.



--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs    | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
TakeThisOuTclydespamspamRemoveMEhtsoft.com      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.htsoft.com | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download a FREE beta version of our new ANSI C compiler for the PIC
microcontroller! Point your WWW browser at http://www.htsoft.com/

1997\01\06@083458 by Kerzer Computers

flavicon
face
I am really new at this, can you explain in more detail please ?


At 21:39 6/01/97 +1000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1997\01\07@163618 by Bryan Hord

flavicon
face
Maybe I can help answer this one.  I hope this isn't too long for the list.
The project I worked on had eight timers and about seven inputs to process
in "real time".  The processor is the 16C57 so I'm sure you'll have greater
flexibility with the '84.

The main event loop is executed as fast as it takes to get throught the
instructions.  The time to get through the event loop is less than the loop
timer.

In this case the loop timer was set to about 7mS.  'check timers' and some
hardware configuring is done every cycle of the loop while only one state is
active.

All of this only works if you can afford a lower resolution of your time
measurment.  In this example the best resolution of a button press is 7mS.
If your timing requirements are minutes or hours then maybe +/- 7mS is OK.
You can also change the loop timer around to meet your needs.


It looks kind of like this:
________________________________________________________________

Start of program
       ;---- initialize all hardware ----
       blah
       blah
       blah

       ;=======================================
       ;=      TOP OF HEADSET EVENT LOOP      =
       ;=======================================
Top_of_event_loop

       ;---- reset watchdog timer ----
       clrwdt
       ;---- do some hardware checking ----
       blah
       blah
       blah

       ;---- check all timers ----
       PAGE_2
       goto    Check_Timers
timersReturn

       ;---- This is the state processing section
       ;---- A variable 'state' is compared to a constant 'STATEx'
       ;---- if they match then that 'State' is processed.
       ;---- Changeing states is done inside the current state.
       ;---- Check Program State ----
       movlw   STATE1
       subwf   state, W
       JNZ     stState2
       PAGE_2
       goto    State_1
stState2
       movlw   STATE2
       subwf   state, W
       JNZ     stState3
       PAGE_2
       goto    stState2
       .
       .
       .
       .
       ;---- add as many states as you want as long as the processing time
for any one         ;---- state doesn't take longer than the loop timer.
       .
       .
       .

stateReturn

      ;---- do some hardware checking ----
       blah
       blah
       blah

       ;---- check battery ----
       goto    Check_Battery_Low
Check_Battery_Low_Return
       ;---- check Shut Down ----
       goto    Check_ShutDn
Check_ShutDn_return


       goto    Top_of_event_loop

       ;=======================================
       ;=      END OF HEADSET EVENT LOOP      =
       ;=======================================

_______________________________________________________________

Here are the inputs and timers routine.  There is one example of the battery
input signal and associated debounce and shutdown timer but you can add a
lot more inputs and timers in here if you need them.

________________________________________________________________

;*************************************************************
;       GOTO:   Check_Timers
;*************************************************************
Check_Timers
       BANK_0
       movf    RTCC, W                 ; get timer value
       subwf   RTCC_last, Same         ; if RTCC_last > RTCC, C=1, Z=0 (overflo
w)
                                       ; if RTCC_last = RTCC, C=1, Z=1
                                       ; if RTCC_last < RTCC, C=0, Z=0
       movwf   RTCC_last               ; save for next time
       JZ      check_out               ; if RTCC_last = RTCC, then return...
       JNC     check_out               ; if RTCC_last < RTCC, then return...

       ;==================================
       ;    PROCESS 8ms TIMER EVENT!!!
       ;==================================

       ;--------------------------------
       ;    DEBOUNCE VARIOUS SIGNALS
       ;--------------------------------

       ;==== debounce Battery Low signal ====

       ;---- set C to port value ----
       btfsc   PORT_LOWBATT, _LOWBATT
       STC
       btfss   PORT_LOWBATT, _LOWBATT
       CLC
       ;---- shift into 'battlow_history' byte and mask unused bits ----
       rlf     battlow_history, W
       andlw   7fh                     ; 7 bits = 7 * 8ms debounce = 56ms
       movwf   battlow_history
       ;---- if all bits are same, then set 'battery_low' flag ----
       btfsc   STATUS, Z               ; skip if battlow not 0
       bcf     flag2, battery_low      ; *** battery_low = 0 ***
       movlw   7fh
       subwf   battlow_history, W
       btfsc   STATUS, Z               ; Z set if all 1's
       bsf     flag2, battery_low      ; *** battery_low = 1 ***

;------------------------------
;    PROCESS VARIOUS TIMERS
;------------------------------

       ;==== process 'Battery_low_timer' ====
       ;---- is timer > 0? ----
       movf    Battery_low_timer_l, Same
       JNZ     battlow_active                  ; timer active...
       movf    Battery_low_timer_h, Same
       JZ      battlow_done                    ; timer not active...
battlow_active
       ;---- decrement 16-bit timer ----
       DJNZ    Battery_low_timer_l, battlow_done
       movf    Battery_low_timer_h, Same
       JZ      battlow_expired                 ; if timer expired...
       decf    Battery_low_timer_h, Same       ; else decrement
       decf    Battery_low_timer_l, Same       ; (decr to prevent timer=0)
       goto    battlow_done                    ; and we're done...
battlow_expired
       ;---- Battery low timer expired!  Beep the speaker ----
       PAGE_3                          ; routine located in ROM page 3
       movlw   BEEP_BATTLOW
       call    Beep                    ; Beep(batterylow)
       PAGE_2                          ; back to ROM page 2
       BANK_1                          ; and back to RAM bank 1
battlow_done

check_out
       BANK_0                          ; restore RAM bank to 0
       PAGE_0
       goto    timersReturn


At 01:10 PM 1/6/97 +0200, you wrote:
snip
{Quote hidden}

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EraseMEbryanSTOPspamspamRemoveMEwllink.com
Wireless Link Corporation
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

'What does PIC stand for?'
1997\01\08@140154 by Tim Kerby

picon face
I have heard it as peripheral and also as programmable interface controller.
Microchip don't know when I phoned to ask.  Can you help?

Thanks
       Tim

1997\01\08@161601 by Craig Knotts

flavicon
face
    According to my boss, right after a Microchip seminar which we
    attended together, it stands for Power Integrated Circuit, in
    reference to the relatively high power levels that these chips could
    drive directly.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: What does PIC stand for?
Author:  spam_OUTtim.kerbyRemoveMEspamEraseMEUKONLINE.CO.UK at internet
Date:    1/8/97 3:28 PM


I have heard it as peripheral and also as programmable interface controller.
Microchip don't know when I phoned to ask.  Can you help?

Thanks
       Tim

1997\01\08@184735 by Jacob Blichfeldt

flavicon
face
Peripheral Interface Controller!

-Jacob Blichfeldt
TakeThisOuTblchfldtRemoveMEspam@spam@post3.tele.dk

> I have heard it as peripheral and also as programmable interface
controller.
> Microchip don't know when I phoned to ask.  Can you help?
>
> Thanks
>         Tim

1997\01\08@200220 by Kurt Kuhlmann

picon face
    Peripheral Interface Controller.

    -Kurt


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: What does PIC stand for?
Author:  Craig Knotts <EraseMECraig.KnottsRemoveMEspamCARRIER.WLTK.COM> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    1/8/97 3:51 PM


    According to my boss, right after a Microchip seminar which we
    attended together, it stands for Power Integrated Circuit, in
    reference to the relatively high power levels that these chips could
    drive directly.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: What does PIC stand for?
Author:  spamtim.kerby.....spamspamUKONLINE.CO.UK at internet
Date:    1/8/97 3:28 PM


I have heard it as peripheral and also as programmable interface controller.
Microchip don't know when I phoned to ask.  Can you help?

Thanks
       Tim

'What does PIC stand for? - PIC'
1997\01\10@023206 by Tim Kerby

picon face
Here is the official message from Microchip to end this thread.  Thanks for
all the replies.

Tim



{Quote hidden}

_________________________________
{Quote hidden}


'What is the difference between Flash and EEPROM?'
1997\02\22@191832 by Duncan Christie
picon face
What is the difference between Flash and EEPROM???

Duncan.

1997\02\22@205045 by John Payson

picon face
> What is the difference between Flash and EEPROM???

In the context of the 16F84 vs 16C84, nothing.

In the context of some other devices, quite a bit.  For example, a project
my company did used a flash chip which had a byte-write time of about 10us
and a block-erase time (no byte erase) of over a second.  Generally, from
my limitted experience, MOST chips which use EEPROM are byte eraseable and
have comparable write/erase times, while most chips which use flash are only
block-erasable and have highly asymetric write/erase times.


'What's wrong with this macro?'
1997\03\06@105409 by mbonner
flavicon
face
Hi,

I think I'm missing something very basic.  I'm using ByteCraft's MPC and
the target controller is the PIC16C74A.  This macro is supposed to take
2 unsigned 8-bit chars (h: high, l: low), concatenate them, and return
the unsigned 16 bit result.  Instead, it's masking (zeroing) the high
byte.

#define WORD(h,l)   (((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))

Thanks, Matt

1997\03\06@115142 by Ed VanderPloeg

flavicon
face
At 08:00 AM 3/6/97 PST, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I think I'm missing something very basic.  I'm using ByteCraft's MPC and
>the target controller is the PIC16C74A.  This macro is supposed to take
>2 unsigned 8-bit chars (h: high, l: low), concatenate them, and return
>the unsigned 16 bit result.  Instead, it's masking (zeroing) the high
>byte.
>
>#define WORD(h,l)   (((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))
>
>Thanks, Matt
>
I don't use the MPC compiler, but have you tried:
- extra brackets around the first cast & the "(h)", like this:
#define WORD(h,l)   ((((unsigned long)(h)) << 8) | (unsigned char)(l))

- using a different cast like (uint16) or (word), to see if the compiler is
only allowing 8 bits for the "long".

- casting the whole macro to ensure a 16 bit output:
#define WORD(h,l)   (unsigned long)(((unsigned long)(h) << 8) | \
                                    (unsigned char)(l))

IMHO, it seems there should be a much more efficient way to create a word
out of two bytes than this.  I'm curious as heck what the compiler gives
you for that macro.  Maybe it actually sets up a loop and shifts eight
times (gross!).  Trouble is, I can't think of any alternatives right now.
Anyone got ideas?

-Ed V.

1997\03\06@122300 by mbonner

flavicon
face
Ed VanderPloeg wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Ed,
As you can see, the compiler stores the high byte, clears the storage
location for the low byte, and ORs the low byte into the cleared
location.  The only inefficiency that I can see is the ORing into a
known-clear location (instead of a MOV).

BCF    STATUS,RP0    Sample = WORD(Phi, Plo);
MOVF   39,W
BSF    STATUS,RP0
MOVWF  46
CLRF   45
BCF    STATUS,RP0
MOVF   3A,W
BSF    STATUS,RP0
IORWF  45

BTW, the extra brackets didn't change the assembled code.  I still have
to try it in my target system.

Matt

1997\03\06@123058 by Bill Durocher

flavicon
face
part 0 428 bytes
union word_byte_u
{
   unsigned char       low_byte;   /* the order of low_byte and high_byte
declaration */
   unsigned char       high_byte;  /* would be compiler specific */
   unsigned long       the_word;
} u_convert;

Then when you wanted to convert two bytes to one word in your code:

u_convert.low_byte = low_val;
u_convert.high_byte = high_val;
answer = u_convert.the_word;

Classic use of union.....

-Bill






'What does PIC actually stand for?'
1997\03\06@171630 by simon

flavicon
picon face
Hi,
I had always assumed that PIC stands for Peripheral Interface
Controller as the PIC FAQ also states. But I have been having a
disscusion in a usenet group and he seems to beleive otherwise. Could
someone enlighten me?

Below follows the last message.

Regards
Simon


On Sun, 2 Mar 1997 18:31:21 GMT, in alt.satellite.tv.crypt
EraseMEmzenier@spam@spam@spam@netcom.com (Mark Zenier) wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\03\07@081026 by Tim Kerby

picon face
Hi
I have had to study this for a report not too long ago.  It was peripheral
interface controller when General Instruments inventes the c54 (an older
version).  The chip was like a programmable VIA for other chips.  Then to
cut a long story short, microchip bought the division and renamed the chips
PIC alone (no abbreviation).


Hope that helps


Tim


At 21:39 06/03/97 GMT, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, it is the end of the message!
My web pages are at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tim.kerby/
My PIC site is at web.ukonline.co.uk/members/tim.kerby/pic/
It needs your projects!
------------------------------------------------------------------

1997\03\07@091454 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 07:25 AM 3/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi
>I have had to study this for a report not too long ago.  It was peripheral
>interface controller when General Instruments inventes the c54 (an older
>version).  The chip was like a programmable VIA for other chips.  Then to
>cut a long story short, microchip bought the division and renamed the chips
>PIC alone (no abbreviation).

From what I understand, the Microchip execs were former GI guys who knew
what the potential was.  GI is too busy screwing up cable TV.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

'What Demo board to use'
1997\03\25@014918 by andreabelian

picon face
Hi all
What kind of demo boad are you recomending to make or to use.
For all PIC's.



                                                                       Thank yo
u



Andre



















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'What design tools to use for PIC projects?'
1997\05\08@160027 by Brian Scearce
picon face
All the recent talk about AP circuits inspires me to ask: what is
a good tool for a hobbyist to use for doing PCB layout?  APC offers
Easytrax, is that a good product?

I've finished my first project, a servo controller.  It mostly
works, but there is some unreliability, which I suspect is from
motor noise and power dips when motors start up.  _Mobile Robots_
suggests that these problems can be solved by putting a capacitor
from power to ground, but they don't specify the size.  Can anyone
recommend a good size to start with?  If I had a big box o'
capacitors, I'd do the experiment myself, but I'm just starting.

Thanks,
Brian

1997\05\09@183116 by Tony Matthews

flavicon
face
Brian Scearce wrote:
>
> All the recent talk about AP circuits inspires me to ask: what is
> a good tool for a hobbyist to use for doing PCB layout?  APC offers
> Easytrax, is that a good product?
>
> I've finished my first project, a servo controller.  It mostly
> works, but there is some unreliability, which I suspect is from
> motor noise and power dips when motors start up.  _Mobile Robots_
> suggests that these problems can be solved by putting a capacitor
> from power to ground, but they don't specify the size.  Can anyone
> recommend a good size to start with?  If I had a big box o'
> capacitors, I'd do the experiment myself, but I'm just starting.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
.01uF soldered directly to vdd_vss for noise the dips depend on to many
factors to guess just double what you have.Providing the supply can
charge this filter cap before the power up timer on the chip times out
you will be ok.As to the software try at least 3 or 4 before
investing.Alot of the satisfaction or dissapointment depends on your
previous experiences and expectations. Most vendors have demo's you can
download and try.

1997\05\09@205949 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 11:56 AM 5/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>All the recent talk about AP circuits inspires me to ask: what is
>a good tool for a hobbyist to use for doing PCB layout?  APC offers
>Easytrax, is that a good product?

Never used Easytrax.  I use SuperPCB from Mental Automation, generally
pleased with results.  http://www.mentala.com

>I've finished my first project, a servo controller.  It mostly
>works, but there is some unreliability, which I suspect is from
>motor noise and power dips when motors start up.  _Mobile Robots_
>suggests that these problems can be solved by putting a capacitor
>from power to ground, but they don't specify the size.

I've done quite a bit with servos.

Make sure you have VERY heavy traces to provide power to the servo.
Include a series resistor on the signal out of the PIC.  270 ohm minimum,
max varies with servo brand, 10K is reasonable for most, would go as high
as possible if I were you.  If in an RF environment, I suggest using
standard strategies to reduce noise - chokes, caps, shielding, etc.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\05\09@214006 by Keith Kotay

flavicon
face
>
> At 11:56 AM 5/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I've finished my first project, a servo controller.  It mostly
> >works, but there is some unreliability, which I suspect is from
> >motor noise and power dips when motors start up.  _Mobile Robots_
> >suggests that these problems can be solved by putting a capacitor
> >from power to ground, but they don't specify the size.
>
> I've done quite a bit with servos.
>
> Make sure you have VERY heavy traces to provide power to the servo.
> Include a series resistor on the signal out of the PIC.  270 ohm minimum,
> max varies with servo brand, 10K is reasonable for most, would go as high
> as possible if I were you.  If in an RF environment, I suggest using
> standard strategies to reduce noise - chokes, caps, shielding, etc.
>
> Andy
>
Is the purpose of the serial resistor to lower the voltage of
the PWM signal?   I've been using a PIC to control 3 servos on
my Inchworm robot for the past 9 months and I don't use a
serial resistor, but I do use a higher voltage for servo power
than for the PIC, which naturally makes the PWM output a lower
voltage than the servo power.  Initially, I was observing
instability in the servo when the PWM signal was the same
voltage as the servo power.  Then I checked out the PWM signal
with an oscilloscope and discovered that it was about 0.3 volts
lower than the servo power voltage.  So I started using 5.3
volts as the servo power volgage and the instability was gone.
Of course, I now use 5.75 volts as the servo power voltage
because I want to get more power out of the servo.  I'm
thinking of going to 6 volts on my next design which, I've
heard, is the absolute max for servos.  Can you confirm this
Andy?

Keith

Keith D. Kotay
Ph.D. Candidate
Dartmouth College
spamkotayspamcs.dartmouth.edu
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~kotay

1997\05\10@084642 by gtham

flavicon
face
Brian Scearce wrote:
>
> All the recent talk about AP circuits inspires me to ask: what is
> a good tool for a hobbyist to use for doing PCB layout?  APC offers
> Easytrax, is that a good product?
>
>
Brian,

Since I'm sort of a hobbyist myself, I may see things more
from your angle.
About EasyTrax by Protel: Probably the only FREE product.  Alas,
it runs under DOS, which disqualifies it for me.
Drivers for common printers and graphic cards are included.
An alternative is:

1. Protel Advanced PCB. (http://www.protel.com).  Fully working demo,
  but limited to 200pads or 20 components.  Takes some learning,
  but is excellent i.m.o.  You can have more than 20 components
  if you draw them using discrete pads. Might be a good idea
  learning this one if you plan to work in the industry.

  Note that it is licensed for evaluation only!  I don't think
  anyone would mind if a hobbyist makes one or two PCBs for his
  own use, though.  The full version is expensive, so perhaps
  you want to read on:

If you're prepared to pay a wee bit, there are two good
alternatives, both very intuitive.

2. PIA. (http://www.waldherr.com) About 70 USD, If I remember right.
  Nice.  Definitely worth the buck (quid?) and good enough
  for a hobbyist.  Look at the downloadable demo! Save disabled.

3. SuperPCB by Mental Automation
http://www.mediawhse.com/mentala/mentala.html).    Definitely nice.
Save disabled in downloadable demo.  Price is
  like 170 USD or thereabouts.
  Used and recommended by several subscribers to this list.

My PCB strategy is to make single-sided cards, with most components
on the component side (how about that) but all resistors
surface-mounted on the foil side.  Since the PIC has centralized
power leads, it's easy and advantageous to fit a surface-mounted 0.1uF
cap under the PIC, between Vdd and Vss.  If you haven't tried SMD and
don't have ready access to components, I'll gladly send you coupla
hundred resistors for nothing.  Mail me directly, not the list.

Good luck

Gustaf

1997\05\10@093844 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 14:44 10/05/97 +0200, Gustaf Tham <gthamSTOPspamspamlidkoping.mail.telia.com> wrote:
>My PCB strategy is to make single-sided cards, with most components
>on the component side (how about that) but all resistors
>surface-mounted on the foil side.  Since the PIC has centralized
>power leads, it's easy and advantageous to fit a surface-mounted 0.1uF
>cap under the PIC, between Vdd and Vss.  If you haven't tried SMD and
>don't have ready access to components, I'll gladly send you coupla
>hundred resistors for nothing.  Mail me directly, not the list.

I never have done SMT, but I'll have to do a couple of prototypes now, and
it seems you have some "hobbyist experience" with that :-)

How do you mount the components? Is it feasible to mount SMT resistors, and
even SOIC packages manually? Any special techiques, precautions?

Thanks,

Gerhard

1997\05\10@102012 by gtham

flavicon
face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
> At 14:44 10/05/97 +0200, Gustaf Tham <gthamSTOPspamspamKILLspamlidkoping.mail.telia.com> wrote:
> >My PCB strategy is to make single-sided cards, with most components
> >on the component side (how about that) but all resistors
> >surface-mounted on the foil side.  Since the PIC has centralized
> >power leads, it's easy and advantageous to fit a surface-mounted 0.1uF
> >cap under the PIC, between Vdd and Vss.  If you haven't tried SMD and
> >don't have ready access to components, I'll gladly send you coupla
> >hundred resistors for nothing.  Mail me directly, not the list.
>
> I never have done SMT, but I'll have to do a couple of prototypes now, and
> it seems you have some "hobbyist experience" with that :-)
>
> How do you mount the components? Is it feasible to mount SMT resistors, and
> even SOIC packages manually? Any special techiques, precautions?


It's easy, provided you have good vision, steady hands and a good
soldering
iron with a thin pointed tip; I use a temp. controlled Weller.  Thin,
good quality solder.  And if you have a nylon shirt, rubber sneakers
and your hair on end, I suggest you wait for a rainy day :-)

I know of three methods: 1) Pre-tin one of the solder pads of the card.
Hold the component with a pair of pointed tweezers (I got one which
was discarded from ophtalmologic surgery, but we can't all be lucky)
pressing it firmly against the PCB while re-melting the solder.
Now, the other end of the component:  Do a normal soldering, heating
component and foil at the same time.  When the tin melts, let just a
little "capillarize" under the component.  You might turn back to the
first joint and re-solder with fresh tin.
Use very small amounts of solder!  This is how I do it.
The gurus of this list may whince and faint, but who cares.

2)  Hold the component in place with a weighted arm type thing.

3)  Glue the component in place before soldering.  Note that
Murphys law is particularly powerful here:  The stronger the glue,
the more likely you are to use the wrong component.

Yes, you can do SOIC packages, too.  I did, but at the moment I find
the "hybrid" method I told you about better, since I use ordinary
push-buttons and other stuff that go on the top side anyway, and
I like that SMT cap under the PIC.

Cheers

Gustaf

1997\05\10@112054 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       I've been using the CAD system from Advanced Microcomputer
Systems in Florida for at least ten years.  I've done lots of designs
with it and am quite satisfied.  It includes schematic capture through
board layout.  They have a web site with demo software, but I don't
recall the URL right now.  Try a search and you'll find them.

Harold


Harold Hallikainen                               phone/fax/bbs +1 805 541
0201
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.                web
http://slonet.org/~hhallika
PO Box 4737                                         email
@spam@hhallika.....spamspamslonet.org
San Luis Obispo, CA 93403-4737     email spamhhallika.....spam.....broadcast.net
USA                                                       email
ap621.....spamcleveland.freenet.edu

1997\05\10@132431 by Gary Sutcliffe

flavicon
face
At 11:16 AM 5/10/97 EDT, you wrote:
>        I've been using the CAD system from Advanced Microcomputer
>Systems in Florida for at least ten years.  I've done lots of designs
>with it and am quite satisfied.  It includes schematic capture through
>board layout.  They have a web site with demo software, but I don't
>recall the URL right now.  Try a search and you'll find them.
>


I have used this for about 5 years.  It was about $250. I think they have a
Windows version out.  Like all PCB programs it has its quirks (the parts
library system is bad IMHO).  I bought it when I was consulting. It was the
only program I found at the time that bridged the gap between low end
hobbiest and larger ($) systems. It is quite possible to do professional
quality layouts on it.

Despite the irritating library and rather poor customer service it was a
pretty good value for the cost.

- Gary

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Sutcliffe,  W9XT          Unified Microsystems
KILLspamppvvppspam_OUTspammixcom.com              PO Box 133 Slinger, WI 53086
http://www.qth.com/w9xt        414-644-9036

1997\05\10@133922 by Greg Maki

flavicon
face
Harold M Hallikainen wrote:
>
>         I've been using the CAD system from Advanced Microcomputer
> Systems in Florida for at least ten years.  I've done lots of designs
> with it and am quite satisfied.  It includes schematic capture through
> board layout.  They have a web site with demo software, but I don't
> recall the URL right now.  Try a search and you'll find them.

AMS can be found at

http://www.gate.net/~ams/


Greg Maki

'Part for IR Remote (Somewhat off topic)'
1997\05\12@123334 by Bob Fehrenbach

picon face
About three years ago I designed a unit using an IR remote.  At the
time I used an NEC chip (UPD1620) in the remote.  Worked like a champ.
Recently NEC has made the part obsolete without a suggested alternative.

I have found an SGS Thomson part, M3004AB1, which looks like a candidate
although the encoding is different and the receiver software will have
to be changed.

It would be nice to have some choices here but SGS-T is the only one
so far.

These parts typically include a keyboard scanner, some sort of encoder,
a modulator (usually around 40 kHz) and the IRLED driver.

I suspect that since most of the remotes are made off-shore that few, if
any, parts of this type are imported.  To make things even more
difficult, the volume on this project is relatively low - buy quantities
in the 25 - 50 piece range.

I could roll my own but wheel-reinventing is Plan B.

If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.


Sorry for the slightly off-topic nature.  At present the received signal
is decoded by a Z8 but this would be changed to a PIC in any redesign
so there is a _remote_ relevance.  (Bad pun)

--
Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     spam_OUTbfehrenbspamTakeThisOuTexecpc.com

1997\05\12@124628 by Miller, Steve

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

The cheapest solution to this problem is to buy preassembled universal remotes.
Our local department stores will run specials on these things for less than $10
each.  I cannot build anything for $10 each in the quantities you are quoting.
In several past projects we bought these universal remotes, reverse engineered
one of the manufacturer's encoding schemes, and supplied the remote with our
product.  While not the best solution, it is by far the most cost effective.
Just the plastic case pricing alone will kill you when trying to build your own
remote.

Good Luck.

----- Steve

1997\05\12@154047 by Reginald Neale

flavicon
face
Bob Fehrenbach said:

>About three years ago I designed a unit using an IR remote.  At the
>time I used an NEC chip (UPD1620) in the remote.  Worked like a champ.
>Recently NEC has made the part obsolete without a suggested alternative.
>
>I have found an SGS Thomson part, M3004AB1, which looks like a candidate
>although the encoding is different and the receiver software will have
>to be changed.
>
>It would be nice to have some choices here but SGS-T is the only one
>so far.
>
>These parts typically include a keyboard scanner, some sort of encoder,
>a modulator (usually around 40 kHz) and the IRLED driver.
>
>I suspect that since most of the remotes are made off-shore that few, if
>any, parts of this type are imported.  To make things even more
>difficult, the volume on this project is relatively low - buy quantities
>in the 25 - 50 piece range.
>
>
I believe Philips and Siemens both make this type of device.

Reg Neale

1997\05\12@155934 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

flavicon
face
Hi Bob,

> About three years ago I designed a unit using an IR remote.  At the
> time I used an NEC chip (UPD1620) in the remote.  Worked like a champ.
> Recently NEC has made the part obsolete without a suggested alternative.
>
> I suspect that since most of the remotes are made off-shore that few, if
> any, parts of this type are imported.  To make things even more
> difficult, the volume on this project is relatively low - buy quantities
> in the 25 - 50 piece range.
>
> I could roll my own but wheel-reinventing is Plan B.

Plan B has been done by some.  Aparently one of the largest consumer
remote manufacturers in Europe is also one of the largest PIC16C54
customers.  I expect they use ROM versions for volume but some
top end HI-Fi systems do not have such large volumes.

Generating the carrier is not hard or the modulation.  Keypad
encoding is something that I have not tried but should not be
that hard.

I do agree though that use of a commercial or kit remote is to
be investigated for small runs.  Velleman Kits has a multi function
Remote available as a kit with 16 buttons I think.  Maplin sells their
kits if I'm not mistaken.

Cheers
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari   .....kalle.....spamRemoveMEip.co.za   http://www.ip.co.za/ip
Interface Products   P O Box 15775, DOORNFONTEIN, 2028, South Africa
+ 27 (11) 402-7750   Fax: 402-7751    http://www.ip.co.za/people/kalle

DonTronics, Silicon Studio and Wirz Electronics uP Product Dealer

1997\05\12@163218 by Bob Fehrenbach

picon face
Reginald Neale <spam_OUTnealeTakeThisOuTspamEraseMESERVTECH.COM> wrote:
>I believe Philips and Siemens both make this type of device.

  We have about eight feet of Philips data books and I could not
  find an appropriate part.

  We only have about a foot of Siemens books (which contained
  nothing relevant) so that might be an avenue.  And the Siemens
  rep was just here ....   There must be some sort of law about that.


--
Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     EraseMEbfehrenbspamBeGonespamKILLspamexecpc.com

1997\05\13@045714 by gary skinner

flavicon
face
> Bob Fehrenbach wrote:
> About three years ago I designed a unit using an IR remote

I am currently making my own remote system.  The 554 makes a great
keyboard scanner with wake up on port change.  If you use the right
resonator, generating the appropriate modulating frequency is easy.
The hardest part is finding a case to put it all in.

I have found a great source for cases here in Colorado.  I buy 1000
at a time.  The boards are reasonably easy.

If you are interested in my unit, contact me and I can give you more
details, or sell you remotes if you want.

Gary Skinner   RemoveMEgskinnerspamBeGonespamspamcsd.net
Electronic Solutions, Inc.
design of custom electronic controls

1997\05\13@065049 by Mohamad Shalan

flavicon
face
I am intersted, please send me more information to
@spam@m_shalanspamspamusa.net

1997\05\13@204321 by Reginald Neale

flavicon
face
>Reginald Neale <TakeThisOuTnealeKILLspamspam@spam@SERVTECH.COM> wrote:
>>I believe Philips and Siemens both make this type of device.
>
>   We have about eight feet of Philips data books and I could not
>   find an appropriate part.
>
>   We only have about a foot of Siemens books (which contained
>   nothing relevant) so that might be an avenue.  And the Siemens
>   rep was just here ....   There must be some sort of law about that.
>
>
>--
>Bob Fehrenbach    Wauwatosa, WI     .....bfehrenbRemoveMEspamexecpc.com

It's possible I misunderstood what you are trying to do. Philips makes
several dedicated remote/IR ICs -- check out the SAA3004P xmtr and SAA3049
rcvr chips. The databook also has suggested circuitry.

Sorry if this was not helpful.

Reg Neale

'What is the address of the Microchip news server?'
1997\05\16@155619 by Robert Zeff

flavicon
face
can someone tell me the address of the Microchip news server?

Thanks,
--
Robert

1997\05\19@092235 by lrich

flavicon
face
mchipbbs.microchip.com


73 de WA0ZNL

Robert Zeff wrote:
>
> can someone tell me the address of the Microchip news server?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Robert

1997\05\19@100203 by Tim Drury

flavicon
face
>can someone tell me the address of the Microchip news server?

mchipbbs.microchip.com

If someone at Microchip is listening, can we get a "yes" or "no" as
to whether the list can be mirrored to the news server?  This would
solve the firewall and non-US reader's problems.

And sorry for sending all the WINMAIL.DAT crap last time.  The little
box to do that is unchecked so it wasn't supposed to.  That must be
one of the "features" in MS Outlook 97.

-tim

'What About New Products ?!?'
1997\05\20@184437 by senna

flavicon
face
>I surfed recently on MicroChip WWW pages ...

>Some New Great Products ! 8 pins UC !! on-chip x-tal@4mhz !!!

>a/d converters , etc ...

>Just plug +/- , 6 wires free , but no more docz .

>AVAILLABILITY ? HOW-MUCH ?? WHERE ???

I HOPE TO KNOW . %-(

1997\05\21@082458 by Stephen R. Synakowski

flavicon
face
ZyLog wrote:
>
> >I surfed recently on MicroChip WWW pages ...
>
> >Some New Great Products ! 8 pins UC !! on-chip x-tal@4mhz !!!
>
> >a/d converters , etc ...
>
> >Just plug +/- , 6 wires free , but no more docz .
>
> >AVAILLABILITY ? HOW-MUCH ?? WHERE ???
>
> I HOPE TO KNOW . %-(
I've been waiting for these (12C671,2) for a while now. They were
supposed to be out (samples even) end of April early May. I called
yesterday and that's moved up to Aug 97.
Steve

1997\05\21@094050 by John Griessen

flavicon
face
At 08:12 AM 5/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I've been waiting for these (12C671,2) for a while now. They were
>supposed to be out (samples even) end of April early May. I called
>yesterday and that's moved up to Aug 97.
>Steve
>
>
Samples too?

I plan to use one of these to be a RS485 serial number for addressable
controller network.

Anyone know of an application of an RS485 network with one of the other
PICs that I can copy from?

John Griessen  CIBOLO Metal Works
3406 Hancock Dr Austin TX 78731-5432  512 451-8207

'New To PIC What am I doing wrong?'
1997\05\29@095553 by Glen Benson

flavicon
face
Hi,

 I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do, But
I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I need
to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC via
lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
(out lpt,1 statement) then
I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift the
value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in the
qbasic code
to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
you see my blunder, can you show me? :)


' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
' be written better? It cant get worse.



Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
       input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input

START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out

loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
     if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
       B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
       goto loop


Thanks
Glen Benson

1997\05\29@115917 by Eric Martens

flavicon
face
This may be the cause of the problem ( i had a same kind of problem on a 68000)

A program written in assembler will work quicker then the same program written
in basic
or another language. The overhead of the program is less or none if you write in
assembler. When you write in a langauge other then assembler the program listing
(compiled program) tends to be longer, thus resulting in a longer runtime on the
proc.

Greetings Eric Martens

***************************
*  Eric Martens           *
*  KILLspamemarspamTakeThisOuTknoware.nl  *
**************************


----------
| From: Glen Benson <TakeThisOuTbensonspamspam_OUTBENSONASSOC.COM>
| To: RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
| Subject: New To PIC What am I doing wrong?
| Date: donderdag 29 mei 1997 14:08
|
| Hi,
|
|   I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
| basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do, But
| I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I need
| to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC via
| lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
| (out lpt,1 statement) then
| I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift the
| value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in the
| qbasic code
| to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
| you see my blunder, can you show me? :)
|
|
| ' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
| ' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
| ' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
| ' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
| ' be written better? It cant get worse.
|
|
|
| Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
| Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
| Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
|         input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input
|
| START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out
|
| loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
|       if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
|       goto loop
|
| getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
|         DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
|         B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
|         goto loop
|
|
| Thanks
| Glen Benson

1997\05\30@091811 by Paul Kolesnikoff

flavicon
face
Date:    Thu, 29 May 1997 07:08:52 EST
From:    Glen Benson <.....bensonEraseMEspamBENSONASSOC.COM>
Subject: New To PIC What am I doing wrong?

Hi,

 I am new to PIC, cant get a handle on asm fast enough. So I bought a
basic compiler. I can write all sorts of neat things I dont need to do,
But
I cant get the following code to work in less than about 2 seconds. I
need
to take an ADC reading stuff it in to a varible and send it to the PC
via
lpt port. For my test I use qbasic and turn on Pin 7 of the PIC with the
(out lpt,1 statement) then
I read the level of pin 6 on the pick to see if hi or low then I shift
the
value in B0 , and do it 7 more times. I have to put 2 second delays in
the
qbasic code
to make it work. Thats .5 hz (its got to go faster than that). Please if
you see my blunder, can you show me? :)


' a qbasic program turns on PIN 7, then the qbasic prog. reads
' the value on (lpt pin10) connected to (PIC on PIN 6) and repeats
' 8 times toget the whole byte. The qbasic prog has to have
' 2 second delays to get the right data. How could this
' be written better? It cant get worse.



Symbol  DDIR = Dir6           ' Shift data pin direction is Dir1
Symbol  DPIN = Pin6           ' Shift data pin is 6
Symbol  CPIN = 1              ' Shift clock pin is 1
       input 7               ' Make pin 7 an input

START:  B0=65                 ' value to shift out

loop: pause 1                 'didnt seem to work without this
     if pin7=1 then getbit   ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1             ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0          ' get the bit send it out to pin 10 on lpt
       B0=B0/2              ' shift the value in B0 over
       goto loop


Thanks
Glen Benson

------------------------------
Glen,

Try changing your code to this.

loop:
     if pin7=1 then getbit      ' pin 1 from lpt just went high
     goto loop

getbit: DDIR = 1                  ' set the direction of the pin
       DPIN = bit0                ' get the bit send it out to pin 10
on lpt
       B0=B0/2                    ' shift the value in B0 over
       if pin7=0 then loop       ' wait for Pin 7 to go low before
looking for new bit

Essentially you are implementing a synchronous data transfer, with the
PC providing the clock. It looks like your original code would sense the
first clock pulse and then shift out a bunch of bits before the second
clock pulse. The extra IF should keep you in sync. If you want to speed
it up a bit more, send byte wide or nibble wide data for every PIN 7
clock pulse. You have up to 9 input pins on a standard parallel port. So
the limit is the number of pins available on your PIC.

Let me know how it goes,
Paul Kolesnikoff
spamBeGonepkolesnispamRemoveMEball.com


'What use is 32 bits ? [Was MPLAB Win CE]'
1997\08\02@140254 by Mike
flavicon
face
At 10:02 AM 8/2/97 +0200, you wrote:

>> What makes you think 32 bit apps are more efficient ?
>>
>> Windows 95 is 95% 16 bit drivers and libraries most of which is ported
>>
>> over from win 3.11.
>>
>> there is a lot of propoganda and hype Win NT comes close to be a 32
>> bit app
>> but even that uses 16 bit dlls !
>>
>> rdgs
>>
>> mike
>
>So is there a TRUE 32-bit OS out there?

Does it matter ?

Why FORCE one instruction per 32 bits when you can get TWO or more ?

WHY do you NEED an 8 bit character to occupying 32 bits - when its more
efficient for it to occupy a byte or at most a 16 bit word ?

>What will Win97 be? (If ever it surfaces from the rumours!)

Not important - Actually it will be Win98 and WILL have lots of 16 bit
instructions in it (even though the buss might fetch 2 or 4 of them at
a time). Why slow down a machine forcing it to use 32 bit instructions ?

Did you know that 8 bit micros have faster IO than any 486 or Pentium
in a windows type GUI - apart from operating system overhead - most
comms is 8 bits - so the value of a wider word size is a overdoing it, a bit;)

Rgds

Mike
Perth, Western Australia


Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\08\02@154438 by Scott Newell

flavicon
face
>>So is there a TRUE 32-bit OS out there?
>
>Does it matter ?

I don't really care if 95 is a *true* 32-bit OS or not.  But there are
some things I like about it.  (And some I don't...)

I like not having to worry about memory models and whether I'm
going to wrap around a 64k segment and how big my pointers are
and whether it's a near call or a far call.

I also like that the 32 bit address space gives you room for neat
tricks like memory mapped files.


>Why FORCE one instruction per 32 bits when you can get TWO or more ?

It's not the simple.

Not every x86 protected mode instruction is 32 bits wide.  Not every
instruction on the 8086 was 16 bits wide, either.

It's my understanding that a 32 bit OS has a 32 bit address space,
and that the size of the opcodes is irrelevant.


later,
newell

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\15@020737 by .jaring.my, and/or

flavicon
Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
which could've been used to do something else - productive.

Enough is enough. Let's all be professional and disccus ONLY PICs. After
all this is the PICLIST not PIGLIST and I supposed you're all are
professional engineers, aren't you?


Sam

1997\08\15@085942 by Engineering Department

flavicon
face
< From: Sam S Man >
> Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> which could've been used to do something else - productive.
>
> Enough is enough. Let's all be professional and disccus ONLY PICs. After
> all this is the PICLIST not PIGLIST and I supposed you're all are
> professional engineers, aren't you?


So sorry Sam, our humanity is showing.

Win Wiencke
Image Logic Corporation

1997\08\15@092710 by Norm Cramer

flavicon
face
At 08:52 AM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>< From: Sam S Man >
>> Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
>> subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
>> going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
>> which could've been used to do something else - productive.
>>
>> Enough is enough. Let's all be professional and disccus ONLY PICs. After
>> all this is the PICLIST not PIGLIST and I supposed you're all are
>> professional engineers, aren't you?
>
>
>So sorry Sam, our humanity is showing.
>
>Win Wiencke
>Image Logic Corporation
>
>

It does get carried away at times but don't your office mates also have
"water cooler" discussions from time to time?

Norm

1997\08\15@093409 by lrich

flavicon
face
Sam S Man wrote:
>
> Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> which could've been used to do something else - productive.

Go start your own mail list.  Run it the way you want.

>
> Enough is enough. Let's all be professional and disccus ONLY PICs. After
> all this is the PICLIST not PIGLIST and I supposed you're all are
> professional engineers, aren't you?
>

Shit no, we don't allow such types on here.  Well, maybe a few if
they're interesting.  Are you interesting?  Have you done much with PIC
chips yet?

I've used them in five diferent products so far. They have some nice
features and some not so nice ones, so what do you want to talk about?

'What about the PIC's?'
1997\08\15@103244 by Martin R. Green

picon face
This morning when I checked my email I had received 14 messages from
PICLIST overnight.  Great I thought, until I found out that 4 or 5 of them
were about the number of fingers owned by a Martian and building a PIC
based spaceship, and 4 of them were a continuation of the (now) esoteric
risk assessment thread (please TAKE THIS ONE OFFLINE! or to the actuarial
list, if it exists).  Several more were a (progressively less) humorous
continuation of the OTP erasing thread.  The remaining messages were about
the embedded controller conference or a new compiler.

Not one message was about PIC's themselves.  Have we forgotten why we are
following this list?

JMNSHO - Martin R. Green
.....elimarEraseMEspambigfoot.com

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\15@110613 by wky

flavicon
face
On 15 Aug 97 at 8:27, Lynn Richardson wrote:

> Sam S Man wrote:
> >
> > Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> > subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> > going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> > which could've been used to do something else - productive.
>
> Go start your own mail list.  Run it the way you want.

Sam is absolutely right. Currently there is an annoying amount of
noise in this previously excellent list.

Regards,
Wolfgang

-----

'What about the PIC's?'
1997\08\15@111839 by han

flavicon
face
Well I've been following the latest days development in the mentioned
threads and I actually enjoy it. Maybe I'm a bit strange, but what's the
big deal... I think that the off-topic-threads bring the PIC-community
closer, beacuse engineers are (from what atleast i have seen) much the
same all around the world; boys in spirit. The boring, academic type of
engineer might want to turn to another forum for discussion... If these,
as someone called them, watercooler discussions bother any of you please
set up the 'pure - technical - and - nothing - but - technical - pic -
list'.

/JD

>{Original Message removed}

1997\08\15@114923 by nvdw

flavicon
face
Dahlstrvm Johan wrote:
>
> Well I've been following the latest days development in the mentioned
> threads and I actually enjoy it. Maybe I'm a bit strange, but what's the
> big deal... I think that the off-topic-threads bring the PIC-community
> closer, beacuse engineers are (from what atleast i have seen) much the
> same all around the world; boys in spirit. The boring, academic type of
> engineer might want to turn to another forum for discussion... If these,
> as someone called them, watercooler discussions bother any of you please
> set up the 'pure - technical - and - nothing - but - technical - pic -
> list'.


Hear hear... A lone voice of sanity!

Nic

1997\08\15@125825 by David W. Duley

picon face
In a message dated 97-08-15 11:13:41 EDT, you write:

<<
This morning when I checked my email I had received 14 messages from
PICLIST overnight.  Great I thought, until I found out that 4 or 5 of them
were about the number of fingers owned by a Martian and building a PIC
based spaceship, and 4 of them were a continuation of the (now) esoteric
risk assessment thread (please TAKE THIS ONE OFFLINE! or to the actuarial
list, if it exists).  Several more were a (progressively less) humorous
continuation of the OTP erasing thread.  The remaining messages were about
the embedded controller conference or a new compiler.

Not one message was about PIC's themselves.  Have we forgotten why we are
following this list?

JMNSHO - Martin R. Green
spamelimarspam_OUTspam@spam@bigfoot.com
 >>
And one message whineing about other messages

1997\08\15@130615 by David W. Duley

picon face
In a message dated 97-08-15 11:56:11 EDT, you write:

<<
Well I've been following the latest days development in the mentioned
threads and I actually enjoy it. Maybe I'm a bit strange, but what's the
big deal... I think that the off-topic-threads bring the PIC-community
closer, beacuse engineers are (from what atleast i have seen) much the
same all around the world; boys in spirit. The boring, academic type of
engineer might want to turn to another forum for discussion... If these,
as someone called them, watercooler discussions bother any of you please
set up the 'pure - technical - and - nothing - but - technical - pic -
list'.
 >>
Finally a voice of reason!
I find it much more annoying that the writers of off-topic messages feel the
need to make the subject
of the email "OFF-TOPIC" as if I can't figure that out on my own.

Its all related in the end.

Dave Duley

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\15@140639 by .jaring.my, and/or

flavicon
Lynn Richardson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

WOW! (Salute...Claps...)

I'm proud of you..( and probably others too). I don't mind an off topic
diccusion or a few. But as long as it doesn't get really annoying, it's
OK. Watercooler? No problemo. Of course there are the funny sides of the
discussion but not up to that extend! Hei.. I'm human like you too..

Yeah. One day when I have all the times I need, I'll start my own mail
list. No sweat.

Being new to the LIST doesn't mean I'm new to uP world. Being humble I
believe is the best way to gain more and more knowledge and not showing
off what you can do. You can only get that far.

Without this "types" my dear Lynn, you won't get any where in your
discussions nor your works.  You won't get to the bottom of it. And if
you do it may not be done the right way. How do you think PICs and any
other uPs would exist if it wasn't for this "type" of people?

And I think you are really good at this type of disscussion, ha?
(banging each other)

Just to let you know I was with Intel for 4+ years then shifted to
Motorola and now running my own bussiness dealing with GPS and survey
instruments. Now I'm trying out PICs because I have all the times (and
some money) since I'm the boss himself. Still I don't consider myself
good, I'm not saying I'm good. I need as much guidance as I can get,
because to me, the more you learn the more you think how small your
capacity is.

You may reply. I'm hanging in. But not going to reply back. We and
probably others too might get carried away and make things worst.

My apalogy to all who think my comments were not supposed to be on the
LIST in the first place.

Thank you all.

Happy PICListing'n

Sam

'What about the PIC's?'
1997\08\15@141445 by Eric van Es

flavicon
face
David W. Duley wrote:
{Quote hidden}

What REALLY nice about the "off topic" in the subject line is: you can
set up a mail filter to delete them!
--
Eric van Es               | Cape Town, South-Africa
Mailto:spamvanes@spam@spamSTOPspamilink.nis.za | WWW: http://www.nis.za/~vanes/
TEMPORARY/HOLIDAY ACCOMMODATION? http://www.nis.za/~vanes/accom.htm

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\15@151706 by lrich

flavicon
face
Sam S Man wrote:
>

> Without this "types" my dear Lynn, you won't get any where in your
> discussions nor your works.  You won't get to the bottom of it. And if
> you do it may not be done the right way. How do you think PICs and any
> other uPs would exist if it wasn't for this "type" of people?

I was kidding, Sam.  Sometimes the list gets boring and I like a little
comic relief.

> And I think you are really good at this type of disscussion, ha?
> (banging each other)

I'll stop.

> Just to let you know I was with Intel for 4+ years then shifted to
> Motorola and now running my own bussiness dealing with GPS and survey
> instruments. Now I'm trying out PICs because I have all the times (and
> some money) since I'm the boss himself. Still I don't consider myself
> good, I'm not saying I'm good. I need as much guidance as I can get,
> because to me, the more you learn the more you think how small your
> capacity is.

Me too.  I've been using microcontrollers in designs since 1979 when the
National COPS400 came out.  I liked the 400s, the PICs are a lot like
them in architecture, instruction set and cost.  I've used Motorola's
6805s and Zilog's Z8s as well.

One thing to watch with PICs is brownout situations.  They don't seem to
have a true power on reset like others.  You have to be sure if VDD goes
below 2V it and all other IO pins continue to go down to VSS before VDD
comes back up.  If you don't, there's a chance the IO ports will have
pins latched into a high or low output and no way to overide by
resetting the TRISx register or port register in your program.

Actually I've tested them down to 0.5 volts before rising and they seem
to power up ok, but Mchip's data sheet says down to VSS.

My latest projects are using PICs for a brushless DC motor controller, a
portable saw mill plank thickness controller and a Belgian Waffle
griddle timer.  All pretty low tech unlike your GPS work.

Have fun and watchout for MPLAB bugs.

1997\08\15@160122 by Steve Smith

picon face
< From: Sam S Man >
> Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> which could've been used to do something else - productive.
>
> Enough is enough. Let's all be professional and disccus ONLY PICs. After
> all this is the PICLIST not PIGLIST and I supposed you're all are
> professional engineers, aren't you?

Even engineers are entitled to a sence of humor however warped !
Steve.....

1997\08\15@160324 by Shane Nelson

flavicon
face
On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Lynn Richardson wrote:

>
> Have fun and watchout for MPLAB bugs.
>

What is with those anyway? I've never used such an unstable program. Maybe
I'm doing something wrong?

It seems that MPLAB can only find #include files when it feels like, and
you have to close and open it again to fix it. Easy to fix, but soooooooo
annoying.

And if that's not annoying enough, sometimes when I make changes, it'll
decide that it can't open the file to save changes. argh.

Maybe it just doesn't like #include "..\..\dirname\file.asm"...

I'm using version 3.22.02. A fix would be nice, unless there's one I dont
know about?

-Shane.

'Hung-up PIC (was WHAT IS THIS?)'
1997\08\15@170229 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:12:41 -0500 Lynn Richardson <spamBeGonelrichspamBeGonespam@spam@qni.com>
writes:
{Quote hidden}

I've noticed this too, on an F84.  The pins do strange things like
driving high but not low.  Also, the program doesn't run properly.  This
was just in the process of turning the power on for the first time, using
a circuit with a transformer, rectifier, filter, and 7805.  Pulling the
MCLR pin low does not help.  It is necessary to jig the power up and down
until it starts properly.  Not good at all.  Apparently there is some
sequential stuff in a PIC that MCLR doesn't clear.  I've only seen it on
one chip (set the project aside for other reasons before trying any
others) but I don't think there's anything wrong with the chip because
once it starts it runs properly.

'What about the PIC's?'
1997\08\15@175043 by Martin R. Green

picon face
OK, so some of you think I was "whineing" (SIC, see below) with my message
about trying to stay on-topic.  To those who believe it is unreasonable to
expect a list called PICLIST to have more traffic about PIC's than about
off-topic subjects, all I can say is, go find a REAL water cooler to gab
around.

No reasonable subscriber to any mailing list minds the occasional off-topic
posting, or even a short thread.  But for the last 8 or 10 days, the noise
has been drowning out the content.  The thread on risk assessment in
particular left the realm of PIC's days ago, and various posters have said
"let's take this offline", but it is still around, and there's nothing
useful going back and forth anymore, it has degenerated into "no, what I
meant by that was..." and "if you haven't worked in the xxx field you don't
know what you are talking about".  At least the Erasing OTP Parts thread
was light-hearted.

Humour and other light hearted comment is always welcome in a list, but
when the dialogs get heated and in-depth about a totally off-topic subject,
it is time to move the conversation off the list.  Traditionally, people
subscribe to a mailing list rather than a newsgroup precisely because lists
typically have a much better S/N ratio.

The only reason anyone complained about this is the first place is that the
noise has been outnumbering the on-topic stuff 4 or 5 to 1 lately.


There...
(breathing easier now...)
Martin R. Green
RemoveMEelimarRemoveMEspamRemoveMEbigfoot.com

PS. in response to Nic, if you want a place to shoot the breeze, YOU start
a list for that, don't hijack an existing list, and then tell others to
start another one if they want to talk about the original subject of the
list.  Or go hang around a chat room.

PPS. I am of course, expecting someone to make a snarky comment about this
posting too.  I'll publish the best ones later (if there are any good
ones).

----------
From:   David W. Duley[SMTP:DREITEKKILLspamspamspamAOL.COM]
Sent:   Friday, August 15, 1997 12:58 PM
To:     spam_OUTPICLIST@spam@spammitvma.mit.edu
Subject:        Re: What about the PIC's?

In a message dated 97-08-15 11:13:41 EDT, you write:

<<
This morning when I checked my email I had received 14 messages from
PICLIST overnight.  Great I thought, until I found out that 4 or 5 of them
were about the number of fingers owned by a Martian and building a PIC
based spaceship, and 4 of them were a continuation of the (now) esoteric
risk assessment thread (please TAKE THIS ONE OFFLINE! or to the actuarial
list, if it exists).  Several more were a (progressively less) humorous
continuation of the OTP erasing thread.  The remaining messages were about
the embedded controller conference or a new compiler.

Not one message was about PIC's themselves.  Have we forgotten why we are
following this list?

JMNSHO - Martin R. Green
TakeThisOuTelimarspam_OUTspambigfoot.com
 >>
And one message whineing about other messages

'Hung-up PIC (was WHAT IS THIS?)'
1997\08\15@212031 by Jim Ham

flavicon
face
At 05:01 PM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

It's actually much worse that that. If the part includes EEPROM, there is a
good possibility that the EEPROM will be written. I know that it happens
with 16F84's and I've been informed by another user that it happened on his
product that uses 16C84's. It would seem some type of brown-out protection
is mandatory for those parts with EEPROM on board. My product is
through-hole, so I'm using the Dallas DS1233D. I've seen the Maxim part
mentioned on this list several times. By the by, on my product the watchdog
would not reset the part after brownout even though it was enabled. It
makes me wonder what its for...

Regards, Jim
Jim Ham, Porcine Associates
(415)326-2669 fax(415)326-1071
"http://www.porcine.com"

'What about the PIC's?'
1997\08\16@103723 by rlunn

flavicon
face
> PS. in response to Nic, if you want a place to shoot the breeze, YOU start
> a list for that, don't hijack an existing list...

       Yet another of those hardy perennials (RETTC).

       This list is run by Jory Bell.  Guidelines regarding the suitability
       of material on this list are set by Jory.  In the absence of explicit
       guidelines we use historical precedent.

       In the several years I have been a member of this list no topic of
       conversation has ever been deemed by Jory to be inappropriate.

       Therefore, restricting this list to PIC-related issues only would be
       a 'hijacking' of its intent.

___Bob

1997\08\18@003317 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Dahlstrvm Johan wrote:
>
> Well I've been following the latest days development in the mentioned
> threads and I actually enjoy it. Maybe I'm a bit strange, but what's the
> big deal... I think that the off-topic-threads bring the PIC-community
> closer, beacuse engineers are (from what atleast i have seen) much the
> same all around the world; boys in spirit. The boring, academic type of
> engineer might want to turn to another forum for discussion... If these,
> as someone called them, watercooler discussions bother any of you please
> set up the 'pure - technical - and - nothing - but - technical - pic -
> list'.
>
> /JD

This is true. If you are interested in 100% fact, it is all in the data
books. Hey, if we have to be geeks, at least we can be interesting
geeks... :)

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
TakeThisOuTtjaartEraseMEspamRemoveMEwasp.co.za
________________________________________________________
|        WASP International   http://wasp.co.za          |
|   R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development   |
|Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer|
|Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686  |  Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973 |
|             WGS-84 : 26010.52'S 28006.19'E             |
|________________________________________________________|

'Hung-up PIC (was WHAT IS THIS?)'
1997\08\18@005431 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Mike Keitz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You can expect this. We had about 28 16C74's a while ago that refused to
drive pin E.0. I asked all the brightest PIClisters, all the Mchip
engineers I had e-mail addresses for, and the local rep. The PIClisters
I asked told me I wasn't screwing up on the software side. All the
Microchip people I mailed the problem (plus a snippet of the software)
to,
said that they would forward it to another dept, and would get back to
me
as soon as they know what is going on. I am still waiting.

After much agonizing on this list about the fact that we have to carry
the cost of these defective parts, the recalls, and the reworks, the
Microchip rep phoned me and promised me replacements if I would 'set
things
strait' on the list. I still haven't received these replacements, and I
am not going to tell the world a lie. What really pissed me, was the
fact
that this told me that I should have told him about the problem when it
happened, and not mail it to the list. The fact is, I DID. Selective
amnesia if you ask me.

Bottom line - don't expect a 100% batch of PICs. Test them properly with
a soak test, if possible. We now run soak tests for hours on end before
we send anything out.

---
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
spamtjaartKILLspamspamKILLspamwasp.co.za
________________________________________________________
|        WASP International   http://wasp.co.za          |
|   R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development   |
|Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer|
|Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686  |  Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973 |
|             WGS-84 : 26010.52'S 28006.19'E             |
|________________________________________________________|

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\18@011924 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Lynn Richardson wrote:

> Sam S Man wrote:
> >
> > Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> > subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> > going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> > which could've been used to do something else - productive.
>
> Go start your own mail list.  Run it the way you want.
PTM: I'm very disapointed to this list. Or better yet: I'm disappointed to
these people who doesn't understand how to use Internet.
There is a lot of lists and news-lists (wars, flames..) where you can go
to continue your ragbiting. Leave these technical lists for what they are
made for.


{Quote hidden}

PTM: IF shit.throwing is your main interest, why not make a new list for
it and go there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTM, spampasi.mustalahtispam_OUTspamutu.fi, STOPspamptmustaspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneutu.fi, http://www.utu.fi/~ptmusta
Lab.ins. (mikrotuki) ATK-keskus/Mat.Luon.Tdk                    OH1HEK
Lab.engineer (PC support) Computer Center                       OI7234
Mail: Turun Yliopisto / Fysla, Vesilinnantie 5, 20014
Pt 02-3336669, FAX 02-3335632 (Pk 02-2387010, NMT 049-555577)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1997\08\18@084959 by lrich

flavicon
face
Pasi T Mustalahti wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Lynn Richardson wrote:
>
> > Sam S Man wrote:
> > >
> > > Being new to the LIST I'm really surprised and frustrated  to see I've
> > > subscribed for. A lot of rubbish, totally unprofessional discussions
> > > going on, wasting everyone's time checking out 50-100 emails everyday
> > > which could've been used to do something else - productive.
> >
> > Go start your own mail list.  Run it the way you want.
> PTM: I'm very disapointed to this list. Or better yet: I'm disappointed to
> these people who doesn't understand how to use Internet.
> There is a lot of lists and news-lists (wars, flames..) where you can go
> to continue your ragbiting. Leave these technical lists for what they are
> made for.
>

I think I understand what is happening... the ones complaining are not
native english speaking and there is a considerable effort on their part
to just read the posts let alone sort out the dreck.  I apologize to
these people as I didn't realize their situation.  Us native english
speakers can rapidly scan the 50-100 posts without doing a full read and
skip the junk so it (usually) doesn't bother us.


{Quote hidden}

I must remember this is an internationally read list and US idioms and
expletives can be misunderstood.  This was meant to be a joke, but they
seldom translate well.   Reminds me of a time when a japanese engineer I
worked with was told a joke that used the term 'wild goose', needless to
say the joke wasn't understood.  However he did have an excellent USA to
Nippon idiom dictionary that he used later in the day to look it up, we
thought he'd lost his mind when he started laughing hard enough to need
to sit down!

'brownout (was Hung-up PIC (was WHAT IS THIS?))'
1997\08\19@132503 by lilel

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face
Jim Ham's most learned opionion was:
> >
> It's actually much worse that that. If the part includes EEPROM,
> there is a good possibility that the EEPROM will be written. I know
> that it happens with 16F84's and I've been informed by another user
> that it happened on his product that uses 16C84's. It would seem
> some type of brown-out protection is mandatory for those parts with
> EEPROM on board. My product is through-hole, so I'm using the Dallas
> DS1233D. I've seen the Maxim part mentioned on this list several
> times. By the by, on my product the watchdog would not reset the
> part after brownout even though it was enabled. It makes me wonder
> what its for...


How much are you paying for the Dallas DS1233D in real quantities?
I've been really successful with a simple PNP transistor as a
brownout device (ala one of the app notes) which costs about 7 cents
US in real quantities, $0.18 for ten.

There's been a long discussion about what the watchdog is for in the
last few weeks...  Look it up
in the archive
-- Lawrence Lile

Download AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting at:
http://members.sockets.net/~llile/index.htm

'WHAT IS THIS?'
1997\08\20@072320 by mikesmith_oz

flavicon
face
On 18 Aug 97 at 7:44, Lynn Richardson wrote:

> Pasi T Mustalahti wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Lynn Richardson wrote:
>
> I think I understand what is happening... the ones complaining are
> not native english speaking and there is a considerable effort on
> their part to just read the posts let alone sort out the dreck.  I
> apologize to these people as I didn't realize their situation.  Us
> native english speakers can rapidly scan the 50-100 posts without
> doing a full read and skip the junk so it (usually) doesn't bother
> us.
>

Is it my imagination, or do there seem to be a large number of, as
you put it, 'not native english speaking' members unsubscribing?
(and doing it incorrectly, by posting to this list - perhaps as a
not so silent rebuke?)

MikeS
<spam_OUTmikesmith_ozspamspamBeGonerelaymail.net>

=== For PICLIST help (including "unsubscribe" instructions),
=== send an e-mail containing the single phrase "help piclist"
=== to: EraseMElistservspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

'What's the administrative adress please ?'
1997\08\24@165914 by Jerome

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face
Could someone remember me the administrative adress of this list to
unsubscribe myself.

Thanks.

1997\08\24@170856 by Joost Kooij

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face
On Sun, 24 Aug 1997, Jerome wrote:

> Could someone remember me the administrative adress of this list to
> unsubscribe myself.

It is EraseMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
send a message with a body consisting only of "help" and that is what you
will get.

> Thanks.

You are (or were?) welcome


Joost


'What's this chip?'
1997\09\10@182427 by johnb
picon face
Here is a microcontroller chip specification:

Up to 18 bidirectional I/O lines
One interrupt input
One 8-bit programmable Timer/event counter with overflow interrupt
On-chip crystal and RC oscillator
Watch dog timer
1K x 14 program ROM
64 x 8 data RAM
OTP parts available
Operating voltage: 2.4 - 5.2V
Halt function to reduce power consumption and wake-up feature
1 microsecond instruction cycle with 4MHz system clock at VDD=5V
All instructions in 1 or 2 machine cycles
14-bit table read instructions
Two-level subroutine nesting

Recognise it?

It's the HT48100 8-bit Microcontroller from HOLTEK.

Details are at http://www.holtek.com

Download 48100.PDF to see the details


John Blackburn,
London UK.

'[ot] That's what you get trying to be cleve'
1997\09\18@011721 by mikesmith_oz.nosp*am

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face
Sorry guys - it just seemed appropriate.  I won't try it again :(
(My mailer said it bounced twice... go figure.)
MikeS
<mikesmith_oz@nosp*m.relaymail.net>
(remove the you know what before replying)

'Whats a good price for16c54-RC/P 20K pieces'
1997\09\22@212924 by cinetron

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Hi, I designed a product for a client here in Canada which uses the
16C54-RC/P. He claims to be getting lousy price quotes. He's looking at
20K pieces. I'm just wondering about ballpark pricing at this quantity
for this  part in the US. If this topic is considered off topic please
respond privately. Thanks!
                                                     Jim


'[OT, somewhat] Windows CE...'
1997\10\09@015827 by William Chops Westfield
face picon face
I was surprised to see such a push for Windows CE at the ESC.  Is WINCE
really an embedded operating system?  I thought it was a small personal
computer operating system, which is an entirely different thing, at least
to me...

BillW

1997\10\09@023245 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
William Chops Westfield <.....PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I was surprised to see such a push for Windows CE at the ESC.  Is
> WINCE really an embedded operating system?  I thought it was a small
> personal computer operating system, which is an entirely different
> thing, at least to me...

Bill:

As far as I can tell, Windows CE is just a way for Microsoft to scare
people away from Embedded Java until Gates, Ballmer, and Myhrvold can
figure out what the embedded-systems world is all about and give us
what we REALLY want.

Whether you call Win-CE (or Embedded Java) an "embedded operating
system", "real-time operating system", or "small personal computer
operating system" is unimportant... The important thing is that Sun
and Microsoft will be battling each other in a market that's been
stagnating for a while, so good things are bound to come from the
competition.

Not that it matters to ME, of course... I write for half-K PICs
with 25 bytes of RAM.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwdEraseMEspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1997\10\09@095023 by Ian Cameron

picon face
Andrew Warren wrote:

> Not that it matters to ME, of course... I write for half-K PICs
> with 25 bytes of RAM.

Yep, no chance of Microsoft encroaching on your pitch, there's
definitely not enough RAM/ROM in those :-]

Sorry, I just couldn't resist it...

Cheers, Ian.

1997\10\10@070821 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Warren <fastfwdTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamIX.NETCOM.COM>
To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <@spam@PICLISTSTOPspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, 9 October 1997 16:03
Subject: Re: [OT, somewhat] Windows CE...


William Chops Westfield <TakeThisOuTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

OTOH, I haven't seen anything from embedded java that I really want.  Java
looks nice, but not nice enough to switch from c++.  What embedded java h/w
is available in the characteristics WinCE h/w must have?
I *can* see attractions in a modicum of code transportability between
Win95 -> CE
I *can't* see much of this rather vapourous java, other than implementations
running on existing non-native java platforms.
Am I missing the point?

>Whether you call Win-CE (or Embedded Java) an "embedded operating
>system", "real-time operating system", or "small personal computer
>operating system" is unimportant... The important thing is that Sun

Yes, thats just playing with aliases <g>

>and Microsoft will be battling each other in a market that's been
>stagnating for a while, so good things are bound to come from the
>competition.

MS are probably happy - it gives them someone to point to when the
anti-trust suits get too close...

>Not that it matters to ME, of course... I write for half-K PICs
>with 25 bytes of RAM.

Where do you want to go today - well, a PIC without segmentation would be
nice, for a start.

'First deciding on PIC, then asking what it can be '
1997\10\11@190747 by Glenn Johansson

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part 0 1049 bytes
You are right that no definitive answers exist, because a developer only chooses the PIC16C84 if the processing speed, stack depth, code size, data size, eeprom size and number of I/O pins is what he needs. If something else is needed, another hardware is used instead of PIC16C84.

On that note, this seems to be a common mistake. Some people on this mailing list first decide on a PIC, and THEN they ask whether it would be possible to do this and that with it. In a development process, one should instead first mention a product, and THEN think of the best way of designing this product so it's cheap to manufacture or whatever. Often PIC chips can be a successful solution in areas where a person without imagination wouldn't expect to see a PIC (for example in a device that needs a DTMF-sending feature), but most of the times the development time and functionality speak against using PIC chips as video cards, phone modems and anti-slipping for walking sticks.

However, I share the excitment for what microcontrollers can be used for...


1997\10\12@103814 by Glenn

flavicon
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part 0 1049 bytes
You are right that no definitive answers exist, because a developer only chooses the PIC16C84 if the processing speed, stack depth, code size, data size, eeprom size and number of I/O pins is what he needs. If something else is needed, another hardware is used instead of PIC16C84.

On that note, this seems to be a common mistake. Some people on this mailing list first decide on a PIC, and THEN they ask whether it would be possible to do this and that with it. In a development process, one should instead first mention a product, and THEN think of the best way of designing this product so it's cheap to manufacture or whatever. Often PIC chips can be a successful solution in areas where a person without imagination wouldn't expect to see a PIC (for example in a device that needs a DTMF-sending feature), but most of the times the development time and functionality speak against using PIC chips as video cards, phone modems and anti-slipping for walking sticks.

However, I share the excitment for what microcontrollers can be used for...


'[OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It I'
1997\10\14@120155 by KcW

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face
Here's a problem and fix I ran into writing a control package (yes, with a
PIC) with VB3 in Win3.11. I set up a couple of timer controls to perform
some scheduled events. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. OK, try
this: create a form with a control group of 10 timers with an interval of
100ms. Add a control group of 10 labels. In the timer events have each time
update a count in it's own label everytime the timer event occurs. When you
run the program you might expect all the counts to be reasonably close.
Such is not the case. My problem, as illustrated, is that Windows places a
low priority on timers and, as such, they are not necessarily serviced all
the time. The result is what you saw, some timers are serviced consistently
and some not often at all. OK, so what to do? This is where the good folks
at DesaWare come in. The have a high priority timer control that, when used
in the demo above, are serviced regularily and all counts match. You are
not limited to 10 timers either. Thanks DesaWare! The moral: use the
DesaWare timer or don't use a lot of timer controls in your apps. Note that
this is not an issue in Win95 or NT.

Regards to all,
KcW

'First deciding on PIC, then asking what it can be '
1997\10\14@142334 by oortje Hanneman & Wouter van Ooijen

picon face
At 06:19 PM 10/10/1997 +0200, you wrote:
>>Question for experienced 16C84 assembler programmers:
>>In your experience, what is the most severe limit on a 16C84:
>> (snip)
>>I realise that no single definitive answer exists,
>>but I'd like to hear some opinions.
>
>You are right that no definitive answers exist, because a developer only
chooses the PIC16C84 if the
> processing speed, stack depth, code size, data size, eeprom size and
number of I/O pins is what he needs. If > something else is needed, another
hardware is used instead of PIC16C84.

Of course, but from the perspective of someone who is writing a (hopefully
re-) useable library, the question is still valid!

'[OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It I'
1997\10\15@074101 by Mike Smith

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-----Original Message-----
From: KcW <spam_OUTkcw.kcwccspamspam.....SYMPATICO.CA>
To: PICLIST.....spam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <spamBeGonePICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, 15 October 1997 1:33
Subject: [OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It Is?


{Quote hidden}

Alternatively, use the multimedia timers for better resolution and priority.
I don't know how you get to them from VB though - I'm using C++, but the
problem with WM_TIMER messages is there too.

MikeS
<EraseMEmikesmith_oz.....spamrelaymail.net>

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\16@011034 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

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Hello,

What is the best way to sense a push button press?  I am multiplexing the
PORTB data lines as a data bus and using PORTA as chip select as shown
to me by Steve Smith.  Will the below circuit work?

An HC74 D Flip-Flop is used to capture a push button press since inputs
will only be scanned briefly and I don't want to miss the press.

The inputs are selected by selecting RD1 and storing to a register.
If PB0 reads as set then I know that the button was pressed.  I then
reset the F/F by selecting WR1 and tickling PB7.

Is there a better way to achieve this???  I need to multiplex the pins
since there are many inputs and outputs (LCD display, ISD voice chip etc)

All comments are appreciated (but go easy on me -- I am also a newbie!)

Thanks in advance!

-Randie Ohtsji
spamrohtsjiKILLspamspam@spam@glenayre.com

PS  I hope my crude schematic shows what I am doing.



                                               Vcc
  +--------------To PIC16F84                    |
  |                 PORTB0-7                    /
  |                                             \
  |                                             /
  |                                             \
  |                                             /      | N.O. Push button
  |                                             |     _|_
  |               __________                    |
  |              |          |                   +-----0 0-------Gnd
  |     8        |        Q0|----               |
  +----/---------| HC373  Q1|----               |
  |              | __     Q2|----           ____0___
  |      GND-----0 OE     Q3|----          |    _   |
  |              |        Q4|----     +----|D   S  Q|------------+
  |              |        Q5|----     |    |  HC74  |            |
  |              |        Q6|----     |    |       _|            |
  |       WR1----|LAT     Q7|-------------->CLK _  Q|-----+      |
  |              |__________|         |    |____R___|     |      |
  |                                   |         0         |      |
  |                                   |         |         |      |
  |                                   +-------------------+      |
  |                                             |                |
  |               __________                    \                |
  |              |          |                   /                |
  |              |        A0|------------------ \ ---------------+
  |      8       |  HC244 A1|                   /
  +-----/--------|        A2|                   \
                 | ___    A3|                   /
       RD1--+----0 OE1    A4|                   |
            |    | ___    A5|                   Vcc
            +----0 OE2    A6|
                 |        A7|
                 |__________|

                  __________
                 | __       |
         WR1-----0 Y0     A0|-------    \
                 | __HC138  |            \
         RD1-----0 Y1     A1|-------      \ To PIC16F84
                 | __       |             / PORTA0-2
                 0 Y2     A2|-------     /
                 | __       |
                 0 Y3    CS1|-----/\/\/\----Vcc
                 | __    ___|
                 0 Y4    CS20---+------GND
                 | __    ___|   |
                 0 Y5    CS30---+
                 | __       |
                 0 Y6       |
                 | __       |
                 0 Y7       |
                 |__________|

1997\10\16@083016 by Mike Smith

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face
-----Original Message-----
From: Randie Ohtsji [4555] <rohtsjispamspamTakeThisOuTGLENVAN.GLENAYRE.COM>
To: RemoveMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <TakeThisOuTPICLIST@spam@spam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, 16 October 1997 14:42
Subject: What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press???


{Quote hidden}

Use the B lines(1) in interrupt mode, with the soft pullups (downs?)
enabled.  If you've got an array of switches to multiplex, try and arrange
them in a regular shape.  the other side of the switch goes to some more
pins(2), that are set to the opposite sense.  When any button is pushed, it
will trigger an interrupt.  In the ISR, you clear
lines(2), and then set one at a time, reading the lines(1) to find out which
switch caused it.  Some debounce is necessary.

Sorry about the awkward description - haven't a data source nearby!!

'[OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It I'
1997\10\16@101623 by paulb

flavicon
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KcW wrote:

> Here's a problem and fix I ran into writing a control package (yes,
> with a PIC) with VB3 in Win3.11. I set up a couple of timer controls
> to perform some scheduled events. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it
> didn't.
 ...
> My problem, as illustrated, is that Windows places a low priority on
> timers and, as such, they are not necessarily serviced all the time.
 ...
> Note that this is not an issue in Win95 or NT.

 I wouldn't be too sure!  I migrated from WIN31 to WIN95 because I
found the latter serviced (comms) IRQs in dos programs whereas the
former simply DIDN'T, particularly when a program was running in the
background.  And this on the same machine.  Obviously WIN31 contains
certified faulty code, but whether '95 is unreservedly fixed in this
regard (it still fails on a certain proportion e.g. 10^-4 of background
interrupts) is moot.

 Note:  I am referring to DOS window events, whereas the VB matter is
about native Windoze calls but, ... one has to wonder.

 Cheers,
       Paul B.

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\16@123130 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

flavicon
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Mike,

Thanks for the response!

The B lines (PB0 - PB7) are used as both inputs and outputs (with HC373
and HC244 chips) so I can't dedicate them to trigger an interrupt from
a switch.  There will be about 4x HC373 and 2x HC244 used (chip selected
by the HC138) so the B lines sequence will go something like: Output1,
Output2, Input1, Output3, Output4, Input2.  The switch will be on Input2.
......err I hope you are getting what I am trying to say.

Since the B lines will only look at Input2 (the switch input) a minimum
of 1/6 of the time, I need to capture the switch press by using the
Flip-flop.

Is the circuit and logic of what I am attempting to do the best way to
capture a switch press????

I thought the Flip-Flop could be used for de-bounce.

Thanks!


-Randie

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/
*/ Randie Ohtsji                                                     /*
/* Glenayre R&D, Vancouver, BC  CANADA   Phone: (604) 293-1611 x4555 */
*/ Email: TakeThisOuTrohtsjispamspamglenayre.com           Fax:   (604) 293-4317       /*
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/



{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

1997\10\16@175744 by Steve Smith

picon face
part 0 6338 bytes content-type:text/plainIn a message dated 16/10/97  05:11:42, you write:

<< What is the best way to sense a push button press?  I am multiplexing the
PORTB data lines as a data bus and using PORTA as chip select as shown
to me by Steve Smith.  Will the below circuit work?
 >>
In the circuit I sent The HC244 for the inputs is scanned once every 10mS and
if button is down for three scans then it is valid Check out the debounce
routiene by Scott Dattalo its on his website
www.interstice.com/~sdattalo/technical/software/pic/debounce.html
This will debounce a whole 8 bits and you can loose the flip flop just
continue scanning the input register.

Also if you are working at 4Mhz you can do lots between reading an input
buffer to get keys every 10mS  The section to read keys will take less than
10uS

movlw b'11111111'       ;Set port b to input.
Tris port_b
movlw b'00000111'        ;Select an input buffer by seting b,4 address is
b,0,1,2
movwf port_a
movfw port_b                ;Read port B
movlw b'00010111'         ;Deselect input buffer turn off hc138

The read needs only take 1uS to open the 244 and read the key status just do
it every 10mS
software should be able to handle it all If you want send mail and I will
return a chunk of code for '84 that works in that circuit also attached are
the LCD handlers for that module.


Cheers Steve.......

some software extracts fo the board
CONOFF  EQU     B'00010000'     ; CONTROL PORT OFF STATE

;---------------PORT ASSIGNMENTS A IS ALWAYS OUTPUT--------
;---------------B IS BIDIRECTIONAL AND HAS ASSESS TO-------
;---------------UP TO 64 IO LINES VIA 138------------------

CON     EQU     PORTA   ; PORT A IS CONTROL
DTA     EQU     PORTB   ; PORT B IS DATA

;---------------138 LOCATION ASSIGNMENTS------------------

OUT1    EQU     B'00000000'     ; OUTPUTS 0-7
OUT2    EQU     B'00000001'     ; OUTPUTS 8-15
OUT3    EQU     B'00000010'     ; OUTPUTS 15-23
OUT4    EQU     B'00000011'     ; OUTPUTS 16-29 AND BUZZER AND LCD CONT
INP1    EQU     B'00000100'     ; INPUTS 0-7
INP2    EQU     B'00000101'     ; INPUTS 8-15
INP3    EQU     B'00000110'     ; INPUTS 16-23
INP4    EQU     B'00000111'     ; INPUTS 24-29 AND TEST SW AND CONT SW


Content-ID: <EraseME0_7383_877034365RemoveMEspam@spam@emout06.mail.aol.com.10764>> Content-type: text/plain;
       name="106-LCD.INC"

;************* LCD FUNCTIONS ******************************
;---------------LCD TEXT OUTPUTER-----------
STRING  
       MOVWF   STRNUM      ; SAVE STRING NUMBER
       MOVLW   b'11111111' ; NEEDS TO BE FF BEFORE ENTERING STRING  
       MOVWF   TABOFF      ; SAVE IN CHR COUNTER
       MOVLW   LCDRS       ; SET TO DATA
       CALL    LCD_TXT     ; DO IT
DOSTR   PAGE1               ; SET PAGE MARKER
       CALL    CALLSTR     ; GET STRING CHARTER POINTED TO IN TABOFF
       PAGE0               ; RESET PAGE MARKER
       MOVWF   LCDCH       ; SAVE CHAR
       ANDLW   B'01111111' ; MASK END BIT (END OF STRING MARKER)
       CALL    LCD_OUT      
       BTFSS   LCDCH,7     ; CHECK LAST
       GOTO    DOSTR       ; NOT FINISHED DO SOME MORE
       RETLW   0           ; CONTINUE PROGRAM
;--------------LCDRS-----------------------------------------------
LCD_RS  
       MOVLW   BUZ             ; LCD IN CONTROL MODE NO BUZ
LCD_TXT MOVWF   DTA             ; INFO ON PORT
       MOVLW   OUT4            ; SELECT ADDRESS
       ADDLW   CONOFF          ; ADD THE OFF LOCATION TO PORT LOCATION
       MOVWF   CON             ; SET CONTROL PORT
       BCF     IOEN            ; CLOCK DATA OUT
       BSF     IOEN            ; RETURN TO NON SELECTED
       RETLW   0               ; EXIT
;---------------LCD PAUSE------------------
LCD_OUT  
       MOVWF   DTA             ; PUT LCD CONTROL DATA ON BUS
       BSF     LCDEN           ; Lcd enable HIGH
       BCF     LCDEN           ; Lcd enable LOW                ; SEND IT
       MOVLW   .19             ; DELAY FOR LCD TO CATCH UP
       CALL    SHORT           ; DO TIME
       RETLW   0               ; EXIT
;--------------LCD CLEAR DISPLAY-----------------------------------
LCDCLR  
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   01h             ; CLEAR DISPLAY
       CALL    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
       MOVLW   .5              ; TIME FOR LCD TO CATCH UP
       CALL    LONG            ; DO TIME
       RETLW   0               ; EXIT
;--------------LCD LINE 1 SELECT---------------------------------
L1  
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'10000000'     ; LINE 1 SET
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;--------------LCD LINE 2 SELECT---------------------------------
L2  
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'11000000'     ; LINE 2 SET
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;-------------LCD BACK 1 SPACE----------------------------------
BACK1  
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'00010000'     ; BACK ONE SPACE
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;------------LCD LINE 2 POS 12----------------------------------
L1_8    
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'10001000'     ; LINE 1 POS 8
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;------------LCD LINE 2 POS 8------------------------------------
L2_8    
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'11001000'     ; LINE 2 POS 8
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;------------CUSOR BLINK-----------------------------------------
BLINK  
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'00001110'     ; CURSOR BLINK
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;------------CURSOR NORMAL---------------------------------------
NO_BLINK
       CALL    LCD_RS          ; CONTROL MODE
       MOVLW   B'00001100'     ; CURSOR NORMAL
       GOTO    LCD_OUT         ; SHORT TIME DELAY
;-------------LCD INSERT SPACE W CONTAINS NUMBER OF-------------
SPACE_0
       MOVWF   GP3             ; SAVE NUMBER OF SPACES
SPACE_1 MOVLW   .10             ; SPACE LOCATION
       CALL    STRING          ; GO DO IT
       DECFSZ  GP3,F           ; FINISHED
       GOTO    SPACE_1         ; DO SOME MORE
       RETLW   0               ; EXIT      
;************* END LCD FUNCTIONS ************************



1997\10\16@202325 by Bob Lunn

flavicon
face
Bob Lunn
10/17/97 10:24 AM


> Since the B lines will only look at Input2 (the switch input)
> a minimum of 1/6 of the time, I need to capture the switch
> press by using the Flip-flop.

    Only if you need to capture a keypress that is less
    than your key polling time.

    For a 4MHz pic you should be able scan all your inputs
    at 1kHz without raising a sweat.  I doubt that you need
    to detect keypresses that last for less than 1ms...

    In any case, I suspect your real problem is not ensuring
    that you don't MISS keypresses, but rather ensuring that
    you don't detect FALSE keypresses.

    For this you need to debounce they keys, and in general
    this means going slow, not fast.

___Bob

1997\10\17@003908 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:29:33 -0700 "Randie Ohtsji [4555]"
<RemoveMErohtsjispamspamEraseMEGLENVAN.GLENAYRE.COM> writes:

>The B lines (PB0 - PB7) are used as both inputs and outputs (with
>HC373
>and HC244 chips) so I can't dedicate them to trigger an interrupt from
>a switch.  There will be about 4x HC373 and 2x HC244 used (chip
>selected
>by the HC138) so the B lines sequence will go something like: Output1,
>Output2, Input1, Output3, Output4, Input2.  The switch will be on
>Input2.

Do all the outputs first, then all the inputs, so it doesn't need to
adjust the TRIS register every time.  Set up an 8-byte block of RAM to
keep the last output values and the most recent input values.  Unless the
project requres very fast responses to something, do all the I/O at once
periodically.  The program examines and changes the RAM.  This will keep
from scattering I/O routines all over the program should you decide to
use a different I/O arrangement later.

>......err I hope you are getting what I am trying to say.
>
>Since the B lines will only look at Input2 (the switch input) a
>minimum
>of 1/6 of the time, I need to capture the switch press by using the
>Flip-flop.
>
No you don't. You just need to go in the input2 mode and read the
switches at least as often as the shortest time the user is likely to
hold the switch down.  This is about 40 ms.  Store the switch reading in
RAM.  The program can then look at it any time.  Usually it is useful to
detect when a switch was open but is now closed (when it is first
pressed).  This can be done by ANDing the new value with the complement
of the old value.   The somewhat cryptic code below does this with 2 RAM
locations.  Location switches must be preserved between uses of the
routine, location dswitches doesn't need to be.

[Set hardware so PORTB is routed to switches]
       comf    PORTB,w         ;Get new switch settings
(bit=1 if pressed).
       xorwf   switches,w      ;Form difference with old value.
       xorwf   switches,f      ;Update old value to be new.
; Now we have switches = new reading, and W = change from old
;  to new reading.  If a switch has changed since it was last read,
;  the bit in dswitches will be 1.  But the only change we care about
;  is pressing the switch, not releasing it.  So adjust W to
;  clear the bits for any switches that are now released.
       andwf   switches,w      ;And with  present reading
1=pressed.
       movwf   dswitches       ;Fix so only newly pressed are
ones.

The program can now examine switches and dswitches and make decisions
accordingly.  The routine should be executed only evey 20 ms or so to
prevent bounce problems.


>Is the circuit and logic of what I am attempting to do the best way to
>capture a switch press????

All you need for circuitry is a switch to ground, resistor to Vcc,
connect that to the input of the 244, output of 244 to PIC.

>
>I thought the Flip-Flop could be used for de-bounce.

You don't need any explicit debounce if you don't read the switch too
often.  About every 20 ms works out well.  Most switches will not bounce
for longer than 10ms or so.

1997\10\17@134015 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

flavicon
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Hi Mike,

Sorry about the CC (are you getting two of this message, if so please
let me know and I will stop CCing you).

Yes, I am using an old version of OrCAD (v4.???).  I'm very new to
the PIC, but I have a 16C84-04 and a 16F84-10 to play with.  This
PIC list is great -- I found out a lot from all the email bouncing
around (but I still have a LOT to learn).  I would appreciate
any hints, circuits, starting points, etc.

I want to connect a 2x16 line LCD (8 data lines + 3 control lines),
a fully addressed ISD voice chip (10 address lines + 3 control
lines + 2 status lines), compass module (1 data line + 4 control
lines), serial communication (PIC to PIC: 1 data line + gnd).
3 or 4 push buttons, Hex rotary switch - BCD format (4 lines)
and 2 or 3 misc I/O (2 or 3 lines?). Also maybe some motor control
lines and a data line for hall effect sensor (to keep track of motor).
If there is enough I/O, then maybe control the LCD contrast with
digital pot (4 lines?).  Digital volume control would be nice too
(4 control lines - using a digital pot???).

Does the PIC need to read data FROM the LCD.  I know that bit 7 needs
to be read for the LCD busy flag, but do the rest of the lines need
to be accessed???  I wish to do a few custom graphic characters in the
LCD (an Up and Down arrow.....funny that they don't have these, as
there is a left and right arrow in the character set).  I think that I
am allowed to create up to 8 custom characters????

More questions:

A) I wish to use:       1) The internal watchdog
                       2) The timer for PIC to PIC serial
                          communication
                       3) The timer for frequency measurement (20KHz
                          to 80KHz)

                       Can I do this?

                       I was thinking that if I can't, then maybe
                       using an external watchdog & power sense
                       chip (Dallas DS1232).

B) How can I isolate the lines to implement in-circuit-programming (ICP)?
  I wish to use have access to the MCRL line for reset from external
  watchdog & power sense chip and also a pushbutton manual reset.
  How can I isolate the B lines (PB6 & PB7 used for programming)?

  I was think of using an HC245 and disabling the chip (Z state) when
  using ICP but then I would need to enable the chip when using it for
  the real circuit.

  I can use a PNP transistor to isolate the PIC and HC245 chip power
  so that they are the only ones powered up during ICP.


Comments????  .....please!

Thanks

-Randie

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/
*/ Randie Ohtsji                                                     /*
/* Glenayre R&D, Vancouver, BC  CANADA   Phone: (604) 293-1611 x4555 */
*/ Email: STOPspamrohtsji.....spamglenayre.com           Fax:   (604) 293-4317       /*
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/



{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

1997\10\18@160915 by Eric van Es

flavicon
face
Randie Ohtsji [4555] wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Sorry about the CC (are you getting two of this message, if so please
> let me know and I will stop CCing you).
>

Exactly what does CC do? I haven't used it, but would like to know what it does.

> Yes, I am using an old version of OrCAD (v4.???).

Ah Another one....

{Quote hidden}

That's a load of stuff! You'll be busy a while with port-expansion!

> Does the PIC need to read data FROM the LCD.  I know that bit 7 needs
> to be read for the LCD busy flag, but do the rest of the lines need
> to be accessed???  I wish to do a few custom graphic characters in the
> LCD (an Up and Down arrow.....funny that they don't have these, as
> there is a left and right arrow in the character set).  I think that I
> am allowed to create up to 8 custom characters????
>

I don't think you need to read the LCD. You can save one i/o that way (R/W).You
don't need to read the busy flag - you can use delays. Slower though (not much).
You can save 4 I/O lines by simply using the LCD in nibble mode (slower again)

> More questions:
>

snip

> B) How can I isolate the lines to implement in-circuit-programming (ICP)?
>    I wish to use have access to the MCRL line for reset from external
>    watchdog & power sense chip and also a pushbutton manual reset.
>    How can I isolate the B lines (PB6 & PB7 used for programming)?
>

How serious are you about this? Can you use a jumper for running/programming? Or
will your unit be totally enclosed?

{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

'CC explanation was (Re: What is the best way to se'
1997\10\18@224836 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric van Es <EraseMEvanesEraseMEspamILINK.NIS.ZA>
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU <spamPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sunday, 19 October 1997 5:40
Subject: Re: What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press???


>Randie Ohtsji [4555] wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> Sorry about the CC (are you getting two of this message, if so please
>> let me know and I will stop CCing you).
>>
>
>Exactly what does CC do? I haven't used it, but would like to know what it
does.


CC is short for Carbon Copy - it sends copies of your mail to the email
addresses after it
BCC is Blind Carbon Copy - same, but the addressees are unaware of other
recipients of the email.

MikeS
<RemoveMEmikesmith_ozKILLspamspamKILLspamrelaymail.net>

'What a wonderful day!!!'
1997\10\20@022120 by n/a

flavicon
face
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'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\20@124045 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

flavicon
face
Hullo Mike!

> Wow!!  Can I suggest a rethink.  Look at an I2C (pronounced eye-
> squared-see) data book.  The I2C is a 2wire protocol that supports

I'm a little confused about I2C.  Is this an actual IC chip that I
need to connect to the PIC?  Or do I use this instead of the PIC?
Can you recommend any web-sites or manufacturers of this (if it is
a chip) please.


> on writes.  What sort of motor control? stepper/servo? can do in i2c.

Not quite sure if I'm going to use a stepper motor or a regular motor
with a hall effect sensor.  I want to spin a plate around and send
out burst of data (PIC to PIC communication) 45 or 90 degree increments
(ie send out a burst at: 0 degrees, 90 degrees, 180 degrees, 270 degress)
I was think of using the hall effect sensor to sync up when I reach
0 degrees (cheaper than a stepper motor....I think).


> Urr, are you using an integrated chip/display?  These offer differing
> address modes serial/nibble/byte sometimes.   Only other reason to read
> would be to do a dump of the contents of the display, or the char gen - with
> a view to doing read/modify/write to either one.

I would be using a standard integrated chip/display (Sharp or Seiko or
Optrex 2 x 16 LCD display)


> clear wdt.  eg latter case - if you have noise prone design micro can latch
> up so a s/w reset won't fix - or brownouts will stop it working too.  If its
> a life or death thing (and it better not be - it can't checksum itself) then
> an external wdt is the way to go.

The DS1232 is a micromonitor chip which will provide 3 functions:
       1) Power monitor for brown outs.
       2) Watchdog
       3) Push button reset
Any of the 3 conditions will produce a 250mS reset pulse.  I wish to do
all three.


>> 2) The timer for PIC to PIC serial
>>    communication
>
> Async (RS232) or sync?  The latter is probably easier and faster.  If you
> dont need speed, you could put both on i2c bus - it is multi-master. (but,

I will be doing sync communication.  I just want to use 2 lines (data & gnd)
as I may want to do this over an RF link in the future.  I not using RS232.
Speed is not really a concern.  I bought "Easy Pic'n" and "Pic'n up the Pace"
and PIC to PIC communication is implemented by using the timer.  I thought
perhaps I could use this.  But of course I am open to better or alternate
ways of achieving this.


I guess my main question was can I do all three items as they all use
the timer in some way.


> You're using a connector to connect to your ICP, right?  How about making it
> something like a 10 way dil ribbon connector.  When not in program mode use
> links to route thru to your regular cct.  Its a lo tech soln, but sometimes
> they are ok.  Depends on skill of assemblers.

I guess I'm going overboard.  I was thinking of the circuit automatically
switching to ICP mode once the connector was plugged in and switching back
to normal mode with the connector removed.  I'm using an 8 position RJ45
connector as the ICP port.

I have since given up the automatic mode and installed 2-position jumpers
to isolate the circuit.


> What IS it?

If I tell you....... I will have to kill you!  ;)
Just kidding, it is actually a remote data logger/transmitter.


> If i2c is not for you, let me know, and I'll see where the mux techniques
> lead.

Still thinking about mux as I don't know too much about I2C.  Can you
send info please.

Thanks in advance!

-Randie

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/
*/ Randie Ohtsji                                                     /*
/* Glenayre R&D, Vancouver, BC  CANADA   Phone: (604) 293-1611 x4555 */
*/ Email: EraseMErohtsjispamBeGonespamspamglenayre.com           Fax:   (604) 293-4317       /*
*/                ________                                           /*
/*               / ____/ /__  ____  ____ ___  _________              */
*/              / /___/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ `/ / / / __/ _ \             /*
/*             / /_\ / /  __/ / / / /_/ / /_/ / / /  __/             */
*/             \____/_/\___/_/ /_/\__,_/\__  /_/  \___/              /*
/*                ________________________/ /                        */
*/               /_________________________/                         /*
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/

1997\10\20@162314 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Randie Ohtsji [4555] wrote:


> I'm a little confused about I2C.  Is this an actual IC chip that I
> need to connect to the PIC?  Or do I use this instead of the PIC?
> Can you recommend any web-sites or manufacturers of this (if it is
> a chip) please.
>
       I2C is a protocol that can be implemented in software, the reason
it is popular is because it is two wire, multimaster, can address alot of
devices and because there are quite a few devices out there that conform
to the standard. TTYL

'Spam (was What a wonderful day!!!)'
1997\10\20@182934 by Bob Buege

picon face
In a message dated 97-10-20 02:22:14 EDT, you write:
>(snip)
>   All orders include a free
>  full working demo of Stealth, the bulk email program capable
>  of sending up to 400,000 emails per hour, and able to cloak
>  your true identity.
>(snip)

I've been getting pretty disgusted with the amount of spam I've been getting
lately but this message promoting the use of spam is so outrageous that it
deserves more than my usual response of duplicating the sender's address a
dozen times and sending his own spam back to him. The thought of someone
sending 400,000 email per hour while hiding his identity appalls me.

Does anyone know of a way to track the source of email and filter those
messages which come from sources on a blacklist or which have hidden their
origin? It is my understanding that there are only a small number of list
server programs in common use. If software could be added to these programs
which would allow the owner to block messages from known spam producers it
would sure make using the net more enjoyable. I would rather see letters
about PICs than advertisements for porn sites or pyramid schemes.

Bob

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\20@184337 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

flavicon
face
Can anyone direct me to where I can get a copy of the I2C protocol
definition.  Is I2C better than SPI??   What are the differences
between the two?  Does anyone have any examples of I2C or SPI code
using a 16F84?

Thanks!

-Randie
....so many questions, one little brain.......where am I going to
find room to stuff in the answers??

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/
*/ Randie Ohtsji                                                     /*
/* Glenayre R&D, Vancouver, BC  CANADA   Phone: (604) 293-1611 x4555 */
*/ Email: KILLspamrohtsjispamglenayre.com           Fax:   (604) 293-4317       /*
*/                ________                                           /*
/*               / ____/ /__  ____  ____ ___  _________              */
*/              / /___/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ `/ / / / __/ _ \             /*
/*             / /_\ / /  __/ / / / /_/ / /_/ / / /  __/             */
*/             \____/_/\___/_/ /_/\__,_/\__  /_/  \___/              /*
/*                ________________________/ /                        */
*/               /_________________________/                         /*
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/


P.S. [OT] I just met with our Microchip rep and he was saying other Flash
parts are due in 2Q98 - 3Q98.  He's never heard of Scenix.



> > I'm a little confused about I2C.  Is this an actual IC chip that I
> > need to connect to the PIC?  Or do I use this instead of the PIC?
> > Can you recommend any web-sites or manufacturers of this (if it is
> > a chip) please.
> >
>         I2C is a protocol that can be implemented in software, the reason
> it is popular is because it is two wire, multimaster, can address alot of
> devices and because there are quite a few devices out there that conform
> to the standard. TTYL
>

'Spam (was What a wonderful day!!!)'
1997\10\20@192739 by Matt Bonner

flavicon
face
Bob Buege wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-10-20 02:22:14 EDT, you write:
> >(snip)
> >   All orders include a free
> >  full working demo of Stealth, the bulk email program capable
> >  of sending up to 400,000 emails per hour, and able to cloak
> >  your true identity.
> >(snip)
>
> Does anyone know of a way to track the source of email and filter those
> messages which come from sources on a blacklist or which have hidden their
> origin?
-snip-
A couple of things:
1. Display the full header information.
2. Trace down the originating domain with
       http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois
3. Check out the news group alt.stop.spamming
But, please don't ebomb what appears to be the originating address.
It's better to email the originating ISP - copy the spam with FULL
header information.  Most reputable ISPs will remove a spamming account
after only one warning.
--Matt

1997\10\20@194628 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Does anyone know of a way to track the source of email and filter
   those messages which come from sources on a blacklist or which have
   hidden their origin?

It's theoretically possible (and not that hard) to create email that is
nearly perfectly forged (looks like it comes from somewhere it didn't.)
It's much easier to to create an email that isn't origin-traceable further
back than a (possibly bogus) ip address that is the point where it entered
"legitimate" internet.

BillW
cisco

1997\10\20@195621 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
It's theoretically possible (and not that hard) to create email that is
   nearly perfectly forged (looks like it comes from somewhere it didn't.)

I should add that it's truly trivial to create an email the MOSTLY looks
like it came from somewhere it didn't.  I believe that there is significant
spam that looks like it comes from AOL or HOTMAIL that in fact does not, but
it's "fun" to have all that hate mail go to a place you don't like (ie with
strong anti-spam policies.)  Not to mention the all-too-common and rather
sophmoric prank of spamming "I'm gay and proud" type messages all over
usenet, looking like it comes from some personal enemy, or just some poor
dweeb that left his terminal logged in...

BillW (former mail-software hacker.)
cisco

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\20@200703 by Bob Lunn

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face
Bob Lunn
10/21/97 10:08 AM


> Can anyone direct me to where I can get a copy of the
> I2C protocol definition.

    Look at a datasheet for any pic that supports
    SPI/IIC comms, such as the 16C74.  These provide
    quite good descriptions of the protocols.

    Alternatively, look at the datasheets for any
    serial eeprom that uses either of these protocols
    (eg: 24C01 for IIC or 25LC040 for SPI).

    All of these datasheets are available from the
    Microchip web site.

> Is I2C better than SPI??

    As usual, it depends.

    'Standard' IIC only provides data transfer rates
    up to 100kHz, though 'fast' IIC goes to 400kHz.

    In contrast, standard SPI goes to 2MHz.

    The choice is usually based on the hardware that
    you want to use.  If your hardware requires SPI
    then you use that; if it requires IIC ditto.

    In the absence of a hardware constraint I always
    choose IIC.

> What are the differences between the two?

    SPI is owned by Motorola.

    IIC is owned by Philips.

    :)

> Does anyone have any examples of I2C or SPI code using
> a 16F84?

    I believe there are appnotes showing bit-banged IIC
    on the Microchip web site, but I don't know the number.
___Bob

1997\10\20@233419 by Rick Watson

flavicon
face
Get:

http://www-us.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/3114.pdf

"The I2C-Bus and How to Use It (including specifications).

Also, search on their www page for other references.

http://www-us.semiconductors.philips.com/search/

For code, goto http://www.microchip.com and look for AN578 and AN554.

Rick Watson
The University of Texas, ACITS Networking Services, 512/475-9220
r.watsonspam_OUTspamspamutexas.edu

Randie Ohtsji [4555] wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It I'
1997\10\21@064509 by Kahn-Syd

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face
It is said that the PC only has 16 timer channels - using 10 controls in VB
might be OK for your machine - but one another there might not be that many
available.  Why not just use one and update all ten - that would definately
keep everything in sync.

In VB I like to keep all that I can in one routine - easier to make updates
in one place instead of ten....

my $.02
Syd


{Original Message removed}

'Spam (was What a wonderful day!!!)'
1997\10\21@085603 by Roger Books

flavicon
face
> It's theoretically possible (and not that hard) to create email that is
>     nearly perfectly forged (looks like it comes from somewhere it didn't.)
>
> I should add that it's truly trivial to create an email the MOSTLY looks
> like it came from somewhere it didn't.  I believe that there is significant
> spam that looks like it comes from AOL or HOTMAIL that in fact does not,
> but it's "fun" to have all that hate mail go to a place you don't like (ie
> with strong anti-spam policies.)  Not to mention the all-too-common and
> rather sophmoric prank of spamming "I'm gay and proud" type messages all
> over usenet, looking like it comes from some personal enemy, or just some
> poor dweeb that left his terminal logged in...

The mostly I'll give you, but with some effort I haven't seen any where
you couldn't find the injection point, and, unless they were using an
old and trusting mailer, the IP address of the machine the SPAM was sent
from.  The death of source routing has been a little hard on SPAMMERS
as it is much more difficult to fake your IP.  Also, those of us who have
a clue block anything going out through our firewalls that doesn't come
from a valid inside address.  Of course, there are those without clue
still around.  But still, life is getting harder for the SPAMMERS to fake
things to those who are competant.  The initial knee-jerk response is
usually wrong though.  I average 20 or so messages through my server a day
to people who have responded to the obvious address which doesn't exist.

Roger

(Unix Sysadmin, ex-Navy Data Systems tech, OK for a hobbiest with digital
design, my analog sucks wind.)

'[OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It I'
1997\10\21@090438 by KcW

flavicon
face
Actually, uh..., the idea was to not to make a label updating program, but
to show an example of how multiple timers do not get serviced regularily in
VB3/Win3.1x due to the prioritization of software interrupts. Further, to
point to a simple solution and perhaps help someone who might not be aware
of the inconsistency. Perhaps I should have made that a little
clearer....but hey, if I ever need a label updating program I'll be sure to
use your suggestion:)
KcW

----------
> From: Kahn-Syd <spamBeGoneklass.....spamSUN-LINK.COM>
> To: .....PICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OT] VB3 or Does Anyone Really Know What Time It Is?
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 3:45 AM
>
> It is said that the PC only has 16 timer channels - using 10 controls in
VB
> might be OK for your machine - but one another there might not be that
many
> available.  Why not just use one and update all ten - that would
definately
> keep everything in sync.
>
> In VB I like to keep all that I can in one routine - easier to make
updates
> in one place instead of ten....
>
> my $.02
> Syd
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\21@091518 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Randie Ohtsji [4555] <@spam@rohtsjispamGLENVAN.GLENAYRE.COM>
To: PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <spamPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, 21 October 1997 8:14
Subject: Re: What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press???

<snip>

>P.S. [OT] I just met with our Microchip rep and he was saying other Flash
>parts are due in 2Q98 - 3Q98.  He's never heard of Scenix.

An ostrich, methinks.

MikeS
<mikesmith_ozspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTrelaymail.net>

'Spam (was What a wonderful day!!!)'
1997\10\21@092526 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Buege <spam_OUTBobBuege@spam@spamRemoveMEAOL.COM>
To: spamPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <@spam@PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, 21 October 1997 8:00
Subject: Re: Spam (was What a wonderful day!!!)


>In a message dated 97-10-20 02:22:14 EDT, you write:
>>(snip)
>>   All orders include a free
>>  full working demo of Stealth, the bulk email program capable
>>  of sending up to 400,000 emails per hour, and able to cloak
>>  your true identity.
>>(snip)
>
>I've been getting pretty disgusted with the amount of spam I've been
getting
{Quote hidden}

Three suggestions
- theres some shareware called SpamHater that helps do what you are saying.
- if you mail bomb them, do it from an anonymous remailer.  (via http) (I
didn't say that) <g>
- more productive, use the info from SpamHate to complain to their ISP, and
the ISP's ISP... (I've got a few scalps)
- don't reply, or buy their product, or even visit their page

(so I can't count!)

MikeS
<.....mikesmith_ozspam.....relaymail.net>
-

'What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press??'
1997\10\21@092530 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
-----Original Message-----
From: Randie Ohtsji [4555] <spamrohtsjiKILLspamspamGLENVAN.GLENAYRE.COM>
To: RemoveMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <KILLspamPICLIST.....spamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, 21 October 1997 2:13
Subject: Re: What is the best way to sense a pushbutton press???


{Quote hidden}

No, I2C is a serial communication standard that allows low-medium speed
communications to occur over 2 wires, Phillips invented it, and there are a
lot of peripheral chips out there that utilise this protocol.  You don't
need a special chip to generate it at the PIC end, you just twiddle two
lines.  (actually, you set the port bits you are going to use low, and
twiddle the data direction bits if you do it properly - the lines have 2
pullup resistors)  The PIC apps manual explains it somewhat, although I've
seen better.  Maybe the Phillips site?  Anyone else know??

>
>> on writes.  What sort of motor control? stepper/servo? can do in i2c.
>
>Not quite sure if I'm going to use a stepper motor or a regular motor
>with a hall effect sensor.  I want to spin a plate around and send
>out burst of data (PIC to PIC communication) 45 or 90 degree increments
>(ie send out a burst at: 0 degrees, 90 degrees, 180 degrees, 270 degress)
>I was think of using the hall effect sensor to sync up when I reach
>0 degrees (cheaper than a stepper motor....I think).

Probably.

>
>
>> Urr, are you using an integrated chip/display?  These offer differing
>> address modes serial/nibble/byte sometimes.   Only other reason to read
>> would be to do a dump of the contents of the display, or the char gen -
with
>> a view to doing read/modify/write to either one.
>
>I would be using a standard integrated chip/display (Sharp or Seiko or
>Optrex 2 x 16 LCD display)
>

Minimise io by using in nibble or serial mode.  Don't know the specs on
those displays off the top of my head.

>
>> clear wdt.  eg latter case - if you have noise prone design micro can
latch
>> up so a s/w reset won't fix - or brownouts will stop it working too.  If
its
>> a life or death thing (and it better not be - it can't checksum itself)
then
>> an external wdt is the way to go.
>
>The DS1232 is a micromonitor chip which will provide 3 functions:
>        1) Power monitor for brown outs.
>        2) Watchdog
>        3) Push button reset
>Any of the 3 conditions will produce a 250mS reset pulse.  I wish to do
>all three.

I wouldn't assume that a reset would reset.  As I saw someone observe about
*a* microcontroller (no names)
- "The reset is sort of a software request for a reset" ...

>
>
>>> 2) The timer for PIC to PIC serial
>>>    communication
>>
>> Async (RS232) or sync?  The latter is probably easier and faster.  If you
>> dont need speed, you could put both on i2c bus - it is multi-master.
(but,
>
>I will be doing sync communication.  I just want to use 2 lines (data &
gnd)
>as I may want to do this over an RF link in the future.  I not using RS232.
>Speed is not really a concern.  I bought "Easy Pic'n" and "Pic'n up the
Pace"
>and PIC to PIC communication is implemented by using the timer.  I thought
>perhaps I could use this.  But of course I am open to better or alternate
>ways of achieving this.
>
>
>I guess my main question was can I do all three items as they all use
>the timer in some way.

Possible, but difficult.  You can sometimes use the timers for more than one
thing in an application, but you've got to do some switching of values and
adding fudge factor sometimes.  I'd say avoid unless you really need to,
counting cycles to achieve timing is easy on the PIC.

>
>
>> You're using a connector to connect to your ICP, right?  How about making
it
>> something like a 10 way dil ribbon connector.  When not in program mode
use
>> links to route thru to your regular cct.  Its a lo tech soln, but
sometimes
>> they are ok.  Depends on skill of assemblers.
>
>I guess I'm going overboard.  I was thinking of the circuit automatically
>switching to ICP mode once the connector was plugged in and switching back
>to normal mode with the connector removed.  I'm using an 8 position RJ45
>connector as the ICP port.

Expensive once use socket.  Still, I guess tinsel cable is robust.

>
>I have since given up the automatic mode and installed 2-position jumpers
>to isolate the circuit.
>
>
>> What IS it?
>
>If I tell you....... I will have to kill you!  ;)

Or get an Oz Piclist member to do it for you.

>Just kidding, it is actually a remote data logger/transmitter.

Duh!  Deja Vu from some of my past occupations!

>
>
>> If i2c is not for you, let me know, and I'll see where the mux techniques
>> lead.
>
>Still thinking about mux as I don't know too much about I2C.  Can you
>send info please.
>

Don't expect it till the weekend.  Working fulltime days now, which
restricts somewhat.  But have a think about I2C it would probably save you a
lot of 'glue' logic chips...

MikeS
<mikesmith_ozspam_OUTspamspam_OUTrelaymail.net>

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