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'very [OT] linux masquerading a lan'
2000\05\09@151658 by marquis DeSade

picon face
hello picsters....
regarding network sharing, my roomate and i have ran
a linux server, masquerading our 768k DSL line for
about a year, with excellent success...
now, i know alot of linux gurus will badmouth windows
all day long, due to theyre bias towards linux, but i
will try not to do that here, but i will say this: i
ran linux (slackware distro) win 95/98 NT4.0
workstation and server (messed with 2000 advanced
server a little, thought it sucked?)
win 95/98 seems to need to be rebooted once or twice
a week? NT a little less often, but still once a week
to once a month...in the last year, i have NEVER
rebooted my linux box? no down time?
so, how to run linux: get a stable kernel! red hat is
acceptable for most, but i personally like the
slackware version...put 2 network cards in the box,
and one will "eth0" the other will be "eth1" actually,
you could put 5 or 6 network cards in it and use it as
a hub if you so chose? for DSL service, you will need
a cisco 675 router, im not really sure what they use
for cable, but none-the-less, external is better, only
since there isnt much driver support for exotic
modems...set the router for "bridging" mode
copile your kernel, choosing menu-config, from there
you will get the option to setup "IP masquerading/IP
forwarding" and also "advanced firewalling" and
"advanced router"...and whatever else you so choose,
specific to your machine?
now, go make a sandwhich....(compiling takes a little
bit)
ok, so configure lilo to boot your new kernel,
and then edit "inet.d" to your exact ip address both
local and wan network
also, edit your "host.allow" and "hosts.deny" files
and BE SURE TO DISABLE TELNET!!! telnet is a huge
exploit! also, have a buddy or visit a website you
trust to do a prtscan, it will then tell you what
ports are open to the world ie, NFS (NFS lets
linux/unix mount a windows drive, another big exploit)
technically, the only port that the world should see,
is port 80 aka HTTPD (the http daemon) shell is
another exploit, once you have locked down your ports,
youre lan is virtually invisible to the world, and the
learning curve for unix/linux is a little higher than
the average moron using windows....im not saying linux
is bulletproof, nothing in this world is, but it is
pretty damn secure...
hope this helps...
cheers, desade





--- Herbert Graf <spam_OUTgrafhTakeThisOuTspamSYMPATICO.CA> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\05\09@155634 by Quitt, Walter

flavicon
face
Dang he let another set of secrets out......

It does work well, my P133 with 75MHz bus and 64M
work just fine as a front end with 2 16 bit NE2000
clone cards in it.  Red Hat almost makes the installation
as simple as Windoze.

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\09@162337 by Carl

flavicon
face
Forget using an entire desktop/server linux version.  I use a
cut down linux version that runs off a floppy only.  Point
your browsers on over to

http://lrp.c0wz.com/
http://www.linuxrouter.org/

to find out more.  This is more of an embedded linux type distro.
Boots from a floppy and doesn't need/use a hard drive.  Needs
at least 8 Meg RAM and a 386 or greater processor.  The learning
curve is a bit steep, but the mailing list is good.

Carl "I used to buy Cisco's" Leonard


marquis DeSade wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\05\09@164210 by Don

flavicon
face
On 9 May 2000, at 12:54, Quitt, Walter wrote:

> i have NEVER
> rebooted my linux box? no down time?

Yeah, I been running linux for a couple of years, and I had a few
crashes. It doesnt crash if its used command line only, but dos
doesnt have much problem either. When ya put widows into it
whether its the xwindows or the mswindows, ya have probs.

Your biggest problem is you dont give the date and time down to
the seconds and 1/100 of a second since your last reboot. If you
are a true linux guy, shouldnt this be in your signature?
You can probably find a script somewhere that will do that for you.
If you don't know how, or else you will just have to write it yourself.
Be sure to post it somewhere so others can put it in their sigs. We
are allways curious to know how long a persons linux box has
been running.



Don

2000\05\09@182426 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
On Tue, 9 May 2000, Quitt, Walter wrote:

>  win 95/98 seems to need to be rebooted once or twice
> a week? NT a little less often, but still once a week
> to once a month...in the last year, i have NEVER
> rebooted my linux box? no down time?

Where I work, we have a win98 server which I set up which usually has
about 2 month uptimes. Granted all it does is run FileMaker Pro with web
server component (gets only a couple of hits per day) and runs some
batch-file based windows networking tasks (copying files for backup), and
a small FTP server, but I was able to get win98 not to crash by stripping
it down to the minimum and only installing what was necessary.

Sean

2000\05\09@200206 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
It does work well, my P133 with 75MHz bus and 64M work just fine as a
   front end with 2 16 bit NE2000 clone cards in it.

You guys are overestimating the amount of processor power you need to
do internet routing.  An ancient cisco AGS router with CSC/1 processor
would do a fully credible job of handling "internet" for a T1 line and
an ethernet, and it ran a 10MHz 68010...

Oh, you could find benchmarks where a 386sx16 and generic NE2000
ethernets wouldn't do very well, but it's probably sufficient for any
"real-world" usage up through DSL...

There are linux versions that will run just fine on that.

BillW

2000\05\09@201455 by Quitt, Walter

flavicon
face
The P133 and memory I had laying around.
The Motherboard I got as a gift from a buddy.
The case I bought from a coworker for $5.
The video board came from my junk pile.
The monitor was a foot rest under my desk.
The HD was one deemed too small for other uses (3.2G.)
So all in all it was all sorta recycled junk anyways!
:-) :-) :-)
I will try the single floppy version as I don't like the
sound of the HD running!  That will be built from other
"junque" floating about!  I've got plenty of SBCs to do
that with.

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\10@041217 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy should be
put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a floppy
controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would involve
disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on the
motherboard.

Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no mechanical
moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be built into an
extremely small space.

2000\05\10@042703 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Just make the Flash sit there and look (to the on-motherboard FDC) like
it IS a (small) floppy drive.  Add a 4-pin power connector and far as
the machine knows, it has a write-protected Floppy in the drive.  The
FDD is a lot dumber, easier to reverse engineer part than the FDC,
methinks, and FDC's are pretty universal (Also, you don't eat up a
sometimes non-existent ISA slot - you don't have to deal with PCI -
etc.)

I've been meaning to get to this one (CF card off a PIC, hardware write
protect switch, rotary "Floppy select" switch.)  Should be nice for
booting new machines up - no more formatting floppies, no more damaged
media, no more forgetting to copy one driver file etc. <G>

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy should be
> put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a floppy
> controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would involve
> disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on the
> motherboard.
>
> Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no mechanical
> moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be built into an
> extremely small space.

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\05\10@043942 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>Just make the Flash sit there and look (to the on-motherboard FDC) like
>it IS a (small) floppy drive.  Add a 4-pin power connector and far as
>the machine knows, it has a write-protected Floppy in the drive.  The
>FDD is a lot dumber, easier to reverse engineer part than the FDC,
>methinks, and FDC's are pretty universal (Also, you don't eat up a
>sometimes non-existent ISA slot - you don't have to deal with PCI -
>etc.)

The problem here is that you need to have the data come out as a serial bit
stream with a properly appended CRC code. the data also needs to be encoded as a
MFM data stream. If the PIC does the parallel -> serial conversion, I suppose it
would be practical to append a couple of bytes of precalculated CRC to the data
sector in the flash, but this would then mean a fancy calculation to find the
start of the next sector.

I was envisioning the PIC having registers for track and sector, and then just
parallel transferring the data to the host, and setting a register to say error
free reading. Voila, no rotational latency. With the serial transfer you would
always have to transfer a full "rotation" of data as you would not know which
sector the host required.

2000\05\10@072609 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
Why not just use the flash card as a flash file system and be done with it?  You
get the right flash cheap enough (4M for $50 or so) and just plug it into an
IDE-compatible connector.  We used SanDisks in a project and it works great.

Andy









Mark Willis <mwillisspamKILLspamFOXINTERNET.NET> on 05/10/2000 04:24:29 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>








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cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: very [OT] linux masquerading a lan








Just make the Flash sit there and look (to the on-motherboard FDC) like
it IS a (small) floppy drive.  Add a 4-pin power connector and far as
the machine knows, it has a write-protected Floppy in the drive.  The
FDD is a lot dumber, easier to reverse engineer part than the FDC,
methinks, and FDC's are pretty universal (Also, you don't eat up a
sometimes non-existent ISA slot - you don't have to deal with PCI -
etc.)

I've been meaning to get to this one (CF card off a PIC, hardware write
protect switch, rotary "Floppy select" switch.)  Should be nice for
booting new machines up - no more formatting floppies, no more damaged
media, no more forgetting to copy one driver file etc. <G>

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy should be
> put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a floppy
> controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would involve
> disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on the
> motherboard.
>
> Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no
mechanical
> moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be built into an
> extremely small space.

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\05\10@073447 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
I just happen to have some flash chips out of an cell phone sitting on my desk.
As they are 1Mbyte devices, it seems reasonable to try a PIC project for about
10% the cost of a card maybe? (well if I do the PCB myself).

2000\05\10@125638 by rleggitt

picon face
How about ISA card that has Linux boot image in 1MB flash and loader in
ROM. IIRC, BIOS jumps to ISA roms during boot, the loader simply copies
boot image to memory and runs it (and never completes BIOS boot --
shouldn't be a problem since Linux does its own init and doesn't use BIOS
at all).
-- Rich

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Alan B Pearce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\05\10@140216 by Ian Wilkinson

flavicon
face
On Tue, 09 May 2000 in "Re: very [OT] linux masquerading a lan", you wrote:
>On 9 May 2000, at 12:54, Quitt, Walter wrote:
>
>> i have NEVER
>> rebooted my linux box? no down time?
>
>Yeah, I been running linux for a couple of years, and I had a few
>crashes. It doesnt crash if its used command line only, but dos
>doesnt have much problem either. When ya put widows into it
>whether its the xwindows or the mswindows, ya have probs.

I've crashed X Windows a couple of times, but only when doing stupid things
with it (Development Kernel, with S3Virge Frame buffer support then running the
X server that uses the S3Virge and not the FB.) but I've always been able to
telnet into the box and shut down X Windows that way...


>Your biggest problem is you dont give the date and time down to
>the seconds and 1/100 of a second since your last reboot. If you
>are a true linux guy, shouldnt this be in your signature?
>You can probably find a script somewhere that will do that for you.
>If you don't know how, or else you will just have to write it yourself.
>Be sure to post it somewhere so others can put it in their sigs. We
>are allways curious to know how long a persons linux box has
>been running.

I use a script that calls gensig -o (output a sig now)
and then add a blank line then run uptime cutting off the load average...

this is it...
#!/bin/sh
gensig -o
echo
uptime | awk -F load {print "Uptime at" $1}

I don't make it go to the 1/100 of a second.  As I have to move locations for
work I don't get more than a month or two of uptime in one go.

About 9 days ago I had to go from Kent to Birmingham (that's in England for all
those either interested), so I've only got 9 days uptime...

Ian.
--
Wilkinson's Alternative Computer Definitions:
PPP: Post Pub Programming, the code written after a trip to the pub.
Usually rewritten the next day.

Uptime at  2:38am  up 9 days, 13:05,  6 users,

2000\05\10@140219 by Ian Wilkinson

flavicon
face
On Wed, 10 May 2000 in "Re: very [OT] linux masquerading a lan", you wrote:
>The P133 and memory I had laying around.
>The Motherboard I got as a gift from a buddy.
>The case I bought from a coworker for $5.
>The video board came from my junk pile.
>The monitor was a foot rest under my desk.
>The HD was one deemed too small for other uses (3.2G.)
>So all in all it was all sorta recycled junk anyways!
>:-) :-) :-)
>I will try the single floppy version as I don't like the
>sound of the HD running!  That will be built from other
>"junque" floating about!  I've got plenty of SBCs to do
>that with.
>

There is a command to spin down the disk either imediatly or after a certain
amount of doing nothing...

Just can't remember what it is...

If you find it, just remember to take the things you don't need out of your
crontabs, and it should be fine, also don't even think about it if you have a
caching DNS as this tends to spin it up for no apparent reason...

Ian.
--
PENTIUM: Produces Erroneous Numbers Through Incomplete Understanding of
Mathematics

Uptime at  2:55am  up 9 days, 13:22,  6 users,

2000\05\10@141425 by Andy Kelley

picon face
look up the manpage on hdparm

Andy K.
N1YEW

On Wed, 10 May 2000 02:55:36 +0100 Ian Wilkinson
<RemoveMEwilkoTakeThisOuTspamSGTWILKO.F9.CO.UK> writes:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\05\10@151142 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
On Wed, 10 May 2000 09:10:06 +0100 Alan B Pearce <spamBeGoneA.B.PearcespamBeGonespamRL.AC.UK>
writes:
> It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy
> should be
> put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a
> floppy
> controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would
> involve
> disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on
> the
> motherboard.
>
> Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no
> mechanical
> moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be
> built into an
> extremely small space.


       How about just putting it in ROM (EPROM). I've done this for DOS stuff
using Datalight's (http://www.datalight.com) ROM-DOS. Their ROM-DOS
package is really pretty nice. Just put all the files you want in one
directory and it creates an image to put in the EPROM. I put this up in
the address space above 8 megs with a portion of the EPROM also showing
up down in the BIOS extension area (using a 16R8 for decode). Is there a
"ROM-Linux" out there?

Harold



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2000\05\11@154458 by Peter L. Peres

flavicon
face
Hi,

Mark Willis wrote about using a PIC to make a flash card appear as a
floppy drive to the FDC.

I think that it is *very* difficult to implement something that appears as
a floppy drive to a FDC. Remember that the FDC expects serial data from
the heads, using MFM or whatever, at 4MHz or so, sector gaps, issues
stepper (track change) impulses, generates index marks, etc. The MFM part
is a bit difficult for a PIC imho. Although I know of someone who tried
and partially succeeded to make a *network* using two specially programmed
FDCs and some hardware glue. The network was peer to peer MFM (which has
the property of passing through RF transmitters and other media). This was
a hack and did not take off either. imho 4MBps MFM for the price of a
little hardware glue using a plain PC architecture is not a bad deal. Some
ham might yet use it some day on 1296 MHz or 10 GHz ;-). Come to think of
it, a PIC could translate the track select impulses to do PLL synthesizer
programming ;-).

The usual way to implement what Mark was thinking about, is to add a BIOS
extension that will modify the BIOS boot vector and/or the floppy
interface vector. When the boot process starts, it will run code in your
ROM extension instead of doing anything with the floppy. Now, here one can
use a PIC to implement a port-mapped flash memory. For example, using a
16C64 with a PSP port connected to the PC address space, and a big flash
memory on the other side. The BIOS extension implementation requires only
a HCT688 decoder and the EPROM proper. A buffer may be required if there
are more than 2 cards on the ISA. I have done a similar thing (not a flash
device, but a solid state disk nevertheless) once. It worked but did not
take off. It was a special purpose 'drive' with setup data for another
project.  Elektor once had a project on a solid state disk using similar
methods and buckets of SRAMs for storage. My device only had 64kBytes of
SRAM storage and a 8k EPROM for BIOS extension, but it used only 6 chips
and a DIP switch (no buffer). With today's devices it is easy to make a 2M
disk like this.

Peter

PS: Sorry for the long post.

2000\05\12@064820 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>Although I know of someone who tried
>and partially succeeded to make a *network* using two specially programmed
>FDCs and some hardware glue. The network was peer to peer MFM (which has
>the property of passing through RF transmitters and other media). This was
>a hack and did not take off either. imho 4MBps MFM for the price of a
>little hardware glue using a plain PC architecture is not a bad deal. Some

The problem with using MFM to do this is that you cannot distinguish between
continuous 0's and continuous 1's. It is alright for a floppy controller as it
makes an assumption at the beginning of a sector that the data sync is all 0's,
and locks on appropriately.

I built a modem using an EPROM and latch chip using M2FM (M squared FM) as
originally proposed by Shugart for double density floppies. This scheme did not
take off as it is slightly more complicated, but it can distinguish between
continuous 0's and continuous 1's for syncing purposes. See a manual for the
Shugart SA800 series disk drives if you need further info. If really needed I
can still dig out the "definition" of the data stream.

2000\05\14@162305 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy should be
put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a floppy
controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would involve
disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on the
motherboard.

Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no mechanical
moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be built into an
extremely small space.

2000\05\14@165726 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Just make the Flash sit there and look (to the on-motherboard FDC) like
it IS a (small) floppy drive.  Add a 4-pin power connector and far as
the machine knows, it has a write-protected Floppy in the drive.  The
FDD is a lot dumber, easier to reverse engineer part than the FDC,
methinks, and FDC's are pretty universal (Also, you don't eat up a
sometimes non-existent ISA slot - you don't have to deal with PCI -
etc.)

I've been meaning to get to this one (CF card off a PIC, hardware write
protect switch, rotary "Floppy select" switch.)  Should be nice for
booting new machines up - no more formatting floppies, no more damaged
media, no more forgetting to copy one driver file etc. <G>

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> It strikes me that the version of Linux router that fits on a floppy should be
> put into flash memory with a PIC controlling it to look like a floppy
> controller. Note that I say controller, and not drive, so this would involve
> disabling (or possibly removing) the floppy controller if it is on the
> motherboard.
>
> Then you would have a totally silent "disk drive" that would have no mechanical
> moving parts, no media to wear out under the heads, and could be built into an
> extremely small space.

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\05\14@170140 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>Just make the Flash sit there and look (to the on-motherboard FDC) like
>it IS a (small) floppy drive.  Add a 4-pin power connector and far as
>the machine knows, it has a write-protected Floppy in the drive.  The
>FDD is a lot dumber, easier to reverse engineer part than the FDC,
>methinks, and FDC's are pretty universal (Also, you don't eat up a
>sometimes non-existent ISA slot - you don't have to deal with PCI -
>etc.)

The problem here is that you need to have the data come out as a serial bit
stream with a properly appended CRC code. the data also needs to be encoded as a
MFM data stream. If the PIC does the parallel -> serial conversion, I suppose it
would be practical to append a couple of bytes of precalculated CRC to the data
sector in the flash, but this would then mean a fancy calculation to find the
start of the next sector.

I was envisioning the PIC having registers for track and sector, and then just
parallel transferring the data to the host, and setting a register to say error
free reading. Voila, no rotational latency. With the serial transfer you would
always have to transfer a full "rotation" of data as you would not know which
sector the host required.

2000\05\15@142500 by rleggitt

picon face
On Wed, 10 May 2000, Alan B Pearce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Ah, I believe it's worse than that: you'd need to generate synch fields,
header bytes, sector gaps. The pulses from the index hole. If you're
halfway through playing out sector 7 when the controller switches the
head, you really oughtta now be in the middle of sector 7 on the other
side. Etc.

How about building with an IDE interface and boot as C: (or /dev/hda or
whatever), this is supposedly what IDE is for?

-- Rich

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