Searching \ for 'report:' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/ios.htm?key=port
Search entire site for: 'report:'.

No exact or substring matches. trying for part
PICList Thread
'Trip Report: TI MSP430 Seminar...'
2000\03\10@210951 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
Some time ago, TI's new flash MSP430F1101 processor ($0.99 at 10k) was
mentioned here as a potential competitor of PICs.  Since TI and Wyle were
running one of those "bargin" seminars ($49 gets you the seminar, plus
breakfast, lunch, and cookies, plus more than $49 worth of evaluation
system), I thought I'd go, especially since that seemed to be the easiest
way to get the new evaluation kit.  In San Jose, this seminar was yesterday,
and I thought I'd share my impressions...

On the "oops" side, the seminar did NOT supply the flash evaluation kit
(MSP-FET430x110)  Apparently these are in high demand, as well as being
rather 'minimal' for demonstration/lab purposes.  Instead, the seminar
was done using the ($99) MSPSTK430B320 "starter kit."  This is a nicer
and more valuble set using one of the higher-end MSP430 chips and including
an LCD display, but the chip is not removable and not flash, and not all
that cheap if you wanted to buy them (~ $8)  We also got a coupon for 50%
off any other evaluation kit, so I'm not complaining very much...


Interesting things about the MSP430 series of processors.

1) Power consumption

The MSP430s are billed as "very low power consumption" chips.  They
typically run FULL speed at 400uA or lower, and have FIVE (5!) different
power-down mode for even lower consumption (two at 50uA, one at 1.5uA, one
at 0.1uA.)  The starter kit we got ran off power from the rs232 port.  The
parts generally run down to 2.2V or lower (the new low-end flash parts are
2.2V -> 3.6V parts.)


2) 16 bit ALU/Architecture

The MSP430 is a "true" 16 bit architecture, rather similar to a PDP11 in
some ways.  There is a 16 ALU and the instructions are nominally 16 bits
(plus additional words for immediate addresses and data and such.)  There
are 16 registers, which includes Stack pointer, Program Counter, Status
register, and "constant generator."  (12 general purpose registers are
left.)  There's a regular instruction set with 4 addressing modes and 27
basic opcodes.  (TI claims 7 addressing modes for source operands, but four
of those are really special cases of a single bit pattern.)

The constant generators are sort of neat.  They "occupy" one full register
position, and partly overlap the status register.  When used as a source
operand, they provide several common constants (0, -1, 1, 2, 4, 8),
depending on the addressing mode it was accessed with.  (and since it
doesn't really make any send to use the status register as an index
register, you don't lose any real functionality, either.)

By combining the 27 opcodes with the constant generator, TI implements what
it calls "emulated" instructions.  These are still a single word in length
(and execute in one cycle if the destination is a register), but they're not
really separate instuctions.  For example, "inc dest" (increment) is just
implemented as "add #1, dest", using the constant register to get the #1.
(The same sort of thing is what gets you the "extra" three addressing modes
from 2 bits in the instruction - indexed addressing using the PC gets you
"symbolic" mode, indexed addressing using "constant 0" gets you "absolute"
addressing, and register-indirect with autoincrement on the PC gets you
"immediate" addressing.)  Clever; but perhaps presenting it this way was
more confusing than otherwise...


3) Von Neuman architecture.

Unlike most low-end microcontrollers, the MSP430 uses the same address space
for instructions, data, and IO.  The labs all worked by downloading the
sample code into the RAM of the starter kit processor (it has 512 bytes.)
This has advantages and disadvantages, of course.  It DOES mean that the OTP
starter kit is more useful than it might be otherwise - small programs will
easilly fit in the RAM.  Instuctions are up to 6 bytes long and take up to 6
clock cycles, depending on addressing modes.  Register to Register
instructions all take only one cycle.


4) Clock generator.

The clock generator is just WEIRD.  I guess most of it's oddness stems from
the low power characteristics.  One of the goals is to be able to exit the
low power modes within 6us of an appropriate event, which is MUCH quicker
than some other microcontrollers can restart their clock.  All of the MSP430
chips are designed to operate with an external low-frequency (32.769kHz)
crystal (ACLK), and they all have an internal RC based clock with digital
control (MCLK.)  In the high end parts, the MCLK is locked to the ACLK using
something TI calls a "Frequency Locked Loop", and you simply set the desired
multiplier for the 32kHz that you want the system to run at (the default is
about 1MHz, highest supported speed is about 4MHz.)  In the low end parts,
the FLL is missing, so you deal with either a less accurate clock, or
implement something similar to the FLL in software.  In either case, the
peripherals operate off of the (more stable) ACLK.  (actually, the crystal
CAN be omitted entirely...)  One of the interesting (IMHO) side effects of
this is that the main CPU clock (MCLK) is NOT a perfect square wave.  It can
have assorted amounts of jitter, and for frequencies that are not
power-of-two multiples (or something like that) of the ACLK, it's derived
from multiple "taps" of counters, so it doesn't look much like an unstable
square wave either.  This can have implications if you need to write code
that is self timing down to the single cycle level - not all your cycles are
the same length!

The various low power modes of the 430 consist of being able to turn off
assorted combinations of the CPU itself, the MCLK, and the ACLK.  The most
popular LPM3 (1.5uA) turns off CPU and MCLK, but leaves the peripherals
running on the ACLK.  I *think* the fast turn-on time results from being
able to return to the RC-based clock before the crystal resumes oscillating,
and resuming the FLL tracking of frquency "later", after the crystal resumes
oscillating.  The bits controlling the low power modes are part of the CPU
status word, which means that they get pushed on the stack when an interrupt
takes the part out of LP mode, and restored (back to LP mode) when you
return from the interrupt.  (If you don't want to go back to LPM when you
return from the interrupt, you get to modify the status bits on the stack.)


5) Peripherals.

The MSP430s come with approximately the usual set of peripherals, with a
couple interesting exceptions.  The high end part include an LCD controller
that can directly drive and LCD (ie glass) display, using only (I think) a
few external resistors to generate appropriate voltages.  I'm not terribly
familliar with LCDs, but it looked pretty simple to me.  The timer on the
low end chips ("Timer-A") seemed to be quite a bit more versatile than the
usual low-end timer.  It has several counting modes (ie up/down and zero to
<setting> continuously) and some capture/compare registers.  TI's app notes
include info on using the timer (together with some software) to implement
A/D converters, UARTs, several types of PWM, and other stuff.  More
cleverness.  (Note that some of these applications probably REQUIRE use of
the timer rather than SW delays, due to the cpu clock inconstantcy...)  The
ever-present WDT is reprogrammable as an interval timer (causing an
interrupt rather than a reset), and the external reset pin can be
reprogrammed as a non-maskable interrupt.


Annoyances:

Aside from the clock jitter issues I've already mentioned, I think the chief
annoyance of the MSP430 is the low drive capability of the digital IO pins
(only 4.5mA for the low end parts at 3.6V.)

Also, TI's "user manual" really sucks.  I read over this prior to the
seminar, and found it to frequently be in the "wrong" order.  Sections would
constantly use terms that hadn't been defined yet, leading to quite a lot of
confusion.  I *think* this might be due to the intended audience being the
low-power engineer, but I (as primarilly a SW person) found it really
disorienting.  Some of this carried over into the seminar itself, but it was
mitigated by the interactive nature of things - there were some latter
sections scheduled in the seminar that had been mostly covered (by Q&A) by
the time we reached that point in the seminar.

There's no 40 pin part.  Aside from the small 20 pin parts, the chips tend
to end up in amateur-unfriendly packages (48 pin SOP, 64 QFP, etc.)


In all, it's a pretty neat set of parts.  While marketed as an extremely low
power part, there isn't really anything so odd about the part to eliminate
its use in more general purpose applications.  I hope the low end flash
parts end up with some "hobbyist" availability...

BillW


'[PIC:] ICD2 Report: Building Up Clone From CZ'
2004\07\29@160244 by Bob Axtell
face picon face
Incidentally, ICD2 lovers: on a whim I decided to buildup the Czech ICD2
clone for a contract programmer. I bought a PCB and am now populating
it. Its an RS232-only system, and while the link below's design works
OK, the newest actual design is better, using a proper switching supply
for VPP. Their website does NOT reflect the latest design which is
incorporated into the PCB.

So far, it looks great. All components are available from Mouser and
Digikey, but you'll have to dig for the part numbers. The SMD small
parts (Rs/Cs) are 1206 (documentation didn't say), and are mounted on
the bottom of the 1-sided PCB. The switching inductors are 100uH choke
(energy storage)and 10uH choke (smoothing). They are sized as RES300.

I liked the fact that this clone uses a standard 6-pin MTA connector
instead of the RJ12 connector. The RJ12 was a great idea, but nobody can
remember the pinouts, and the manual is set to MAXimum confusion mode.

I've never been a single-sided PCB fan, but the peel strength of the PCB
is quite high. I always cobbleup high-useage items' solder joints to
improve their lifetime, then when everything is working I coat the
topside with a clear plastic coating to keep vibration from working
things loose. Before soldering, coat the PCB bottom with a decent flux
to ensure good solder joints, and be sure to THOROUGHLY remove all flux
when everything is soldered up.

Oh..., the PIC16F877 (DIP40) needs to be socketed so it can be removed
to install the bootloader (In your MPLAB directory/ICD2/BL010101.hex).
If you purchase PIC16F877A, you will need to get a special bootloader
from http://www.mcu-cz/atm folder MCUserver/Projects/ICD2/877Aboot.hex .

Purchasing the PCB only from MCU.CZ, looks like the ICD2 will cost about
$40 USD in total, less if you have a full old-parts inventory.

Info in English at http://www.mcu.cz/modules/news/article.php?storyid=449

--Bob

Stef Mientki wrote:

> Mauricio Jancic wrote:
>
>> Ok ok... Don't get like that...
>>
>> I also want an ICD... But I've managed many things with the bootloader.
>>
--

Replier: Most attachments rejected
      --------------
        Bob Axtell
PIC Hardware & Firmware Dev
  http://beam.to/baxtell
      1-520-219-2363

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spam_OUTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu


'[PIC] Success report: C, bare dsPIC and Linux free'
2005\05\19@000716 by Chen Xiao Fan
face
flavicon
face
Now I wish someone can make ICD2 work under Linux
(even only as a programmer).

Xiaofan

-----Original Message-----
From: .....forumsKILLspamspam@spam@microchip.com [forumsspamKILLspammicrochip.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:26 AM
Subject: This is an email notification from forum.microchip.com.

A new post has been made on May 16, 2005 2:26:09 PM .

Category: 16 bit Digital Signal controllers
Forum: dsPIC30F Topics
http://forum.microchip.com/fb.asp?m=94243

Details of this message include:


hanzl

 Success report: C, bare dsPIC and Linux free tools  

Using C, bare dsPIC in breadboard, ad-hoc made programmer and just
opensource free tools, I have my LED blinking

This game is for bigger nasty children so think twice before following me.
But if you think that at least trying what is it worth to do something
zero-up, here we go:

1) C30 is ported gcc, you can compile your mostly complete free toolchain or
use these .deb or .rpm files:
http://noel.feld.cvut.cz/dspic/

2) Minimalistic C file working around missing libraries looks like this:

#define ASM(X) __asm__ volatile( X )
#define STRING(X) #X /* X macro-expanded before being quoted */
#define BCLR(adr,bit) ASM( "bclr " STRING(adr) ", #" STRING(bit) )
#define BSET(adr,bit) ASM( "bset " STRING(adr) ", #" STRING(bit) )

#define TRISD 0x2D2
#define PORTD 0x2D4
#define LATD  0x2D6

__attribute__((section("__FOSC.sec,x"))) int _FOSC = (0x810B);

_reset(){
main();
}

delay(){
volatile int x = 0;
for( x=30002; x>0; x-- ){
}
}

main(){
BCLR( TRISD, 1 ); /* RD1 is output */
while( 1 ){
  BSET( LATD, 1 );  /* RD1 high */
  delay();
  BCLR( LATD, 1 );  /* RD1 low */
  delay();
}
};


3) Compile like this:

 pic30-elf-gcc -nostdlib dspic.c -o dspic
 pic30-elf-bin2hex dspic


4) Download and compile Homer Reid's programming software:
http://homerreid.ath.cx/misc/dspicprg/

5) Build JDM-style programmer. You should ensure 5V for dsPIC and proper
level shifting for these signals:
   TD --> MCLR (RS232 to 0V/9V, should rise quickly to at least 9V )
   RTS --> PGC (RS232 to logical levels)
   DTR --> PGD (RS232 to logical levels)
   CTS <-- PGD (logical levels to RS232, working at least when DTR is high)
 All this signal conditioning keeps polarity, no inversion.

6) Take special care to filter PGC and PGD as dsPIC is really really picky
regarding these signals. For me, it seemed to work with just 82pF between
PGC and GND, but might better follow the original advice:

...put 22..47 pF on the PGD and PGC lines to ground near the target chip. In
addition, put a 100 ohm resistor in series with the PGD line between target
chip and the cap


7) Try to guess whether things work buy observing the hex file produced by
something like:

dspicdmp -p 760

where "760" is the base port IN DECIMAL (look at /proc/ioports for ideas)
and when confident enough, flash your program with something like

dspicprg -p 760 -c pic30f4012 -f dspic.hex


8) Connect MCLR to +5V and enjoy blinking LED.



So far the C code cannot use global variables, look here to know more:
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.asp?m=85994

And please consider pushing the status of free tools a little bit forward.
Well, I am happy to have my blinking LED, but I might have one without going
through 1000+ pages of manuals  If you want any further progress on the
Linux front, it might very well be up to you now

Many thanks to Microchip, John, Homer and Olin.

Regards

Vaclav Hanzl


http://forum.microchip.com/



2005\05\19@002120 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 5/18/05, Chen Xiao Fan <.....xiaofanKILLspamspam.....sg.pepperl-fuchs.com> wrote:
> Now I wish someone can make ICD2 work under Linux
> (even only as a programmer).
>
> Xiaofan
>

Xiaofan,

Have you tried this project?
http://www.landamore.com/pic.html

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2005\05\19@014931 by Chen Xiao Fan
face
flavicon
face
Great. I will check it out as soon as possible.

Xiaofan


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rages [EraseMEmarkragesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 12:21 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [PIC] Success report: C, bare dsPIC and Linux free tools
(forward )


Xiaofan,

Have you tried this project?
http://www.landamore.com/pic.html

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail

2005\05\19@200057 by Chen Xiao Fan

face
flavicon
face
Thanks for pointing out this link.

It looks promising and I have it compiled successfully
both under Linux and Cygwin (Windows).

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rages [markragesspamspam_OUTgmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 12:21 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [PIC] Success report: C, bare dsPIC and Linux free tools
(forward )

Have you tried this project?
http://www.landamore.com/pic.html

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail


'[OT] News.com special report: waging battle on for'
2005\10\09@053510 by Xiaofan Chen
face picon face
This might be interesting for the list members since PIClist is quite
international but still with more posters within the States.

Regards,
Xiaofan


http://news.com.com/2009-1022-5888772.html?tag=tb

Salary concerns renew H-1B visa opposition
By Ed Frauenheim
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
October 6, 2005 4:00 AM PDT

As offshore outsourcing boomed in recent years, the protracted
controversy over the embattled H-1B immigrant labor program finally
seemed to subside as U.S. jobs were exported overseas and
theoretically lessened the need for foreign workers.

Yet nearly 15 years after its inception under the Immigration Act of
1990, the program remains in full force and headed for new battles.
Just last month, the Indian government made a proposal to the World
Trade Organization, demanding that the annual cap for H-1B visas be
raised from 65,000 to 195,000.

The pivotal question: If jobs are leaving U.S. shores, is the program
still needed?

......

211 Comments as of Oct 09, 2005

...

Competitiveness of US graduates
Posted by: Michael Greere
Posted on: October 8, 2005, 4:11 PM PDT
Story: Waging battle on foreign labor
Just some thoughts from someone that both teaches
undergraduates at a large US university and has several
colleagues on student visas... Mind you, this is purely
anecdotal...

a. Asian and Indian students are far more adept at mathematics.
The reason does indeed appear to be more rote learning,
endless examinations, and a greater cultural emphasis on
education. But, as some above have pointed out, we also appear
to have a slight creative advantage over our foriegn peers. That
too seems to be a result of the differences I just mentioned.

b. Our secondary education system is failing our children.
They're horribly ill-prepared when they enter college. Our
students definitely seem to emphasize having fun socially over
serious studying. Grades are also seriously inflated (a widely-
documented phenomenon), leading to lower expectations of
academic performance. What we need, IMO, is a serious
crackdown on laziness, letting people slide, and parental pull in
school districts. We're letting this fall from grace happen.

The problem for US graduates occurs when their handicap,
particularly in mathematics, bars them from even beginning to
compete with foreign graduates.

We have a real problem here. I'm reminded of it whenever I talk
to faculty or grade exams.

If we took charge and got busy on improving mathematics
education (and perhaps having minimal scores for college
entrance), the visa issue would evaporate.


And please... cut the crap on the irrational nationalism.
Arrogance is what has made us lazy and fall behind.

my 2 cents


'[PIC] Report: Etekronix "Mini-ICD2" (sold on EBay)'
2006\03\09@100916 by Bob Axtell
face picon face
One of my CZ ICD2 clones broke, so I decided
to take a chance with a Hong Kong Co, "Etekronix",
sold on EBay called "Mini-ICD2".

What is appealing is that for less than $50,
you get a working ICD2 powered by a spare
USB port PLUS a programming module complete
with 40P ZIF socket. No wallwart is needed, and
since no regulator is needed, either, the unit
runs very cool..

It has an RJ12 just like the original ICD2, but it
also has a 6-pin header. The header is more
appealing to me because it allows more versatile
connections (standard telephone cable is VERY
stiff, I break a lot of wires).

The construction of the all thru-hole unit is very
well done. The PCB has good grounds and a
small size of  2.5" x 2.5". It uses the PIC16F876A
instead of the PIC16F877, saving a lot of space.

Problem: The Mini-ICD2 has its RJ12 laid out
mirror-image to the original ICD2. This will probably
be corrected shortly, but presently will pose a problem.
But the alternative  6-pin header works very well, and
I prefer it anyway.

One of my USB-RS232 Serial converter cables doesn't
work with this, but I think the second one will.

I'll let everybody know how it goes.

--Bob

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
@spam@attachKILLspamspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\03\09@120427 by andrew kelley

picon face
> It has an RJ12 just like the original ICD2, but it
> also has a 6-pin header. The header is more
> appealing to me because it allows more versatile
> connections (standard telephone cable is VERY
> stiff, I break a lot of wires).

Use stranded telephone cable..

> Problem: The Mini-ICD2 has its RJ12 laid out
> mirror-image to the original ICD2. This will probably
> be corrected shortly, but presently will pose a problem.
> But the alternative  6-pin header works very well, and
> I prefer it anyway.

Yes, but if you make your own cable, get stranded 24awg 6 conductor
flat cable and crimp one connector upside down and the other right
side up.. problem solved.


> --Bob

--
andrew

2006\03\09@140822 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
andrew kelley wrote:

>>It has an RJ12 just like the original ICD2, but it
>>also has a 6-pin header. The header is more
>>appealing to me because it allows more versatile
>>connections (standard telephone cable is VERY
>>stiff, I break a lot of wires).
>>    
>>
>
>Use stranded telephone cable..
>  
>
err, you'd really think I'd use unstranded telephone wire..?

{Quote hidden}

Of course... But the issue is that I'd have to crimp a new RJ12
connector on everytime
I switched back from original ICD2 and the Mini-ICD2.

--Bob

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
KILLspamattachKILLspamspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\03\09@142836 by Danny Sauer

flavicon
face
Bob wrote regarding 'Re: [PIC] Report: Etekronix "Mini-ICD2" (sold on
EBay)' on Thu, Mar 09 at 13:12:
> >Yes, but if you make your own cable, get stranded 24awg 6 conductor
> >flat cable and crimp one connector upside down and the other right
> >side up.. problem solved.
> >
> Of course... But the issue is that I'd have to crimp a new RJ12
> connector on everytime I switched back from original ICD2 and the
> Mini-ICD2.

Would a short adaptor that you just leave plugged in to the
"backwards" device - whichever is deemed backwards - really be such a
big deal?  Even Radio Shack (slogan: "we've got everything but what
you need, even if you need a radio antenna which our name would imply
we might have, but that just shows that you don't know about our cell
phones and computers, oh and by the way, would you like to buy some
batteries today?") has inline 6-position female modular connectors...

--Danny, ruining readability by interjecting excessive parentheticals

2006\03\09@143152 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 3/9/06, Bob Axtell <RemoveMEengineerTakeThisOuTspamcotse.net> wrote:
> Of course... But the issue is that I'd have to crimp a new RJ12
> connector on everytime
> I switched back from original ICD2 and the Mini-ICD2.

I'd make a little adapter that goes male to female and lives with the
ICD. That way you can plug in the same to the ICD2 and this clone.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\03\09@153522 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Josh Koffman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Good answer.

You passed. <G>

Thanks.

--Bob

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
TakeThisOuTattachEraseMEspamspam_OUTengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\03\09@164510 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Bob,

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:09:17 -0700, Bob Axtell wrote:

>...
> Problem: The Mini-ICD2 has its RJ12 laid out
> mirror-image to the original ICD2. This will probably
> be corrected shortly, but presently will pose a problem.

Are you aware that the RJ12 cable supplied with a real ICD2 swaps the pins round?  So the arrangement at the
far end of the cable is reversed compared with the ICD2's connector - if you look at the "Poster" document
DS51265C, it shows the connections at the far end of the cable, ie. swapped in relation to the connector on
the ICD2 itself.  So by choosing either a straight-through or a reversed cable you should be able to correct
the problem.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\03\09@172527 by John Ferrell

face picon face
It sounded interesting so I went looking for it. No trace on Ebay or
Google...
John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Axtell" <RemoveMEengineerspamTakeThisOuTcotse.net>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistEraseMEspam.....mit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: [PIC] Report: Etekronix "Mini-ICD2" (sold on EBay)


> One of my CZ ICD2 clones broke, so I decided
> to take a chance with a Hong Kong Co, "Etekronix",
> sold on EBay called "Mini-ICD2".
>


2006\03\09@174356 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Go to Ebay and search "Mini ICD2", there will be 10 referenced there
for $43.50 USD.

--Bob

John Ferrell wrote:

>It sounded interesting so I went looking for it. No trace on Ebay or
>Google...
>John Ferrell
>http://DixieNC.US
>
>{Original Message removed}

2006\03\09@202409 by Ling SM

picon face

>>Of course... But the issue is that I'd have to crimp a new RJ12
>>connector on everytime
>>I switched back from original ICD2 and the Mini-ICD2.
>
>
> I'd make a little adapter that goes male to female and lives with the
> ICD. That way you can plug in the same to the ICD2 and this clone.

Or just mod either the ICD2 or clone PCB with wire and cutter.  One time
effort, no extra adapter and a standardised connector layout, no future
confusion and misplaced adapter.

Unless the clone breaks in future, adapter will save rewiring, but you
may not want to give it another try.

Ling SM

2006\03\09@203722 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
Looking at the rather detailed ebay pictures I get the impression that it
uses one of those USB-RS232 bridges and therefore it should be as slow as
the RS232 ICS2s

I've seen an ICD2 clone which used a 40 pin PIC18 to communicate via USB and
pass the information to a PIC16 which is the proper ICD2 PIC. I guess that
short of a PIC18 (which this circuit does not have) or a Cypress chip (which
aren't through hole) you're stuck with a FTDI bridge which is no better than
a RS232 connection to the computer since the ICD2 PIC still thinks it's
talking to a serial port and is limited to the 57600 bps datarate.

On 3/9/06, Bob Axtell <EraseMEengineerspamcotse.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\03\09@212106 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:

>Looking at the rather detailed ebay pictures I get the impression that it
>uses one of those USB-RS232 bridges and therefore it should be as slow as
>the RS232 ICS2s
>  
>
No, actually the USB is just a convenient way to get power to the unit.

>I've seen an ICD2 clone which used a 40 pin PIC18 to communicate via USB and
>pass the information to a PIC16 which is the proper ICD2 PIC. I guess that
>short of a PIC18 (which this circuit does not have) or a Cypress chip (which
>aren't through hole) you're stuck with a FTDI bridge which is no better than
>a RS232 connection to the computer since the ICD2 PIC still thinks it's
>talking to a serial port and is limited to the 57600 bps datarate.
>  
>
That's right, although when I used a USB-serial converter it appears to
be slightly faster.
My USB-serial converter is missing its driver, so I can't test it right now.

--Bob

{Quote hidden}

>>

2006\03\10@040618 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 3/10/06, Cristóvão Dalla Costa <EraseMEcdallacostaspamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> Looking at the rather detailed ebay pictures I get the impression that it
> uses one of those USB-RS232 bridges and therefore it should be as slow as
> the RS232 ICS2s
>
> I've seen an ICD2 clone which used a 40 pin PIC18 to communicate via USB and
> pass the information to a PIC16 which is the proper ICD2 PIC. I guess that
> short of a PIC18 (which this circuit does not have) or a Cypress chip (which
> aren't through hole) you're stuck with a FTDI bridge which is no better than
> a RS232 connection to the computer since the ICD2 PIC still thinks it's
> talking to a serial port and is limited to the 57600 bps datarate.

On 486 maybe ?
230400 bps is the maximum speed on most P2 computers, and now P2 is history.
The limitation could be from ICD software ?

cheers,
Vasile

2006\03\10@095702 by John Ferrell

face picon face
Ooops! The syntax got me again. If the hyphen is included the Ebay Search
does not find it!
Thnk you.

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

'[EE] Report: FT232RL USB-Serial Converter Chip'
2006\03\11@112812 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
FTDI has created a truly remarkable chip,
the FT232RL. Its about the fastest possible
way to get a PIC connected to USB2.0. I just
finished a design with it and it  is worth talking
about:

The FT232RL is like the FT232BM in its overall
function- USB to serial conversion-. but after
that, it is a new ballgame. Here's some of the
improvements:

1. TSSOP28 package. Its actually smaller than
the original FT232BM footprint, and is available
in a QFN package, too, for the masochists among
us.

2. NO crystal required! Yes, folks, it has a precise
internal oscillator that generates its internal 48Mhz
clock and synchs its clock to the USB buss when it
is attached. Moreover, that internal oscillator can be
brought out as 24, 12, or 6 Mhz (or all 3!).

3. Internal unique serial number, readable by the
PC USB port attached to the chip. Allows creating
reliable product ID systems and/or software upgrade
methods..

4. All common baud rates, and many custom ones as
well! This means that the thruput can be dramatically
increased by setting the baud rate at 250Kb on the
PIC and setting the same on the FT232RL. The chip
has an internal 384-byte FIFO buffer, so using hardware
flow control, you can  move the data.

5. Programmable pins in almost every conceivable
combination, inverted TX/RX/DSR etc, and even bit-
bang modes (now 3 unique modes). Pin drive can be
normal 4mA or high 12mA outputs.

6. Programmable EEPROM space to allow you to
fully identify your product, to ease driver installation.

Take a look at:

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT232R.htm .


--Bob  

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
RemoveMEattachKILLspamspamengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\03\11@125116 by Stef Mientki

flavicon
face

>4. All common baud rates, and many custom ones as
>well! This means that the thruput can be dramatically
>increased by setting the baud rate at 250Kb on the
>PIC and setting the same on the FT232RL. The chip
>has an internal 384-byte FIFO buffer, so using hardware
>flow control, you can  move the data.
>
>  
>
I normally run a FT232BM at 1.25MB,
so I really don't understand what's special about 250 kB ?

Stef Mientki

>  
>

2006\03\11@171645 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Stef Mientki wrote:

>>4. All common baud rates, and many custom ones as
>>well! This means that the thruput can be dramatically
>>increased by setting the baud rate at 250Kb on the
>>PIC and setting the same on the FT232RL. The chip
>>has an internal 384-byte FIFO buffer, so using hardware
>>flow control, you can  move the data.
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>I normally run a FT232BM at 1.25MB,
>so I really don't understand what's special about 250 kB ?
>
>  
>

I was trying to answer the folks who insist that the serial port method of
USB is throttled by the baud rate. It isn't, and you certainly know that!

--Bob

>Stef Mientki
>
>  
>
>>
>>
>>    
>>


--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
attachSTOPspamspamspam_OUTengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

'[PIC] Report: Etekronix "Mini-ICD2" (sold on EBay)'
2006\03\11@180101 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 3/10/06, Vasile Surducan <spamBeGonepiclist9STOPspamspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/10/06, Cristóvão Dalla Costa <KILLspamcdallacostaspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
> > I've seen an ICD2 clone which used a 40 pin PIC18 to communicate via USB
> and
> > pass the information to a PIC16 which is the proper ICD2 PIC. I guess
> that
> > short of a PIC18 (which this circuit does not have) or a Cypress chip
> (which
> > aren't through hole) you're stuck with a FTDI bridge which is no better
> than
> > a RS232 connection to the computer since the ICD2 PIC still thinks it's
> > talking to a serial port and is limited to the 57600 bps datarate.
>
> On 486 maybe ?
> 230400 bps is the maximum speed on most P2 computers, and now P2 is
> history.
> The limitation could be from ICD software ?


MPLAB doesn't let the user se the datarate higher than 57600 when using a
serial port. In fact, I'm yet to see any application which uses a higher
datarate since while the computer might handle 1 Mbps it still won't go
through a serial cable.

2006\03\12@001541 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 3/9/06, Bob Axtell <EraseMEengineerspamEraseMEcotse.net> wrote:
> One of my CZ ICD2 clones broke, so I decided
> to take a chance with a Hong Kong Co, "Etekronix",
> sold on EBay called "Mini-ICD2".
>
> What is appealing is that for less than $50,
> you get a working ICD2 powered by a spare
> USB port PLUS a programming module complete
> with 40P ZIF socket. No wallwart is needed, and
> since no regulator is needed, either, the unit
> runs very cool..
>

I have borrowed one clone ICD2 from a friend. He got his clone
ICD2 from http://www.pic16.com. It is an almost exact clone
of the original ICD2 (USB+Serial). The best thing is that it comes
with all the accessories (supply, usb cable, serial cable and
28pin debugging and a universal programming board which supports
all PICs below 40-pins but not dsPICs). I like the programmer board
the best.

The website is http://www.pic16.com/wzcapi/mcd2.htm. It is not that
cheap at RMB680 (US$85) but at higher quantity the cost will be much
lower.

The programmer board is RMB50(US$6.2) and is well worth the money.
I will return the clone ICD2 to my friend since I got an original ICD2 but
I really want to keep the programmer board (it has 4 dip switch to select
the PIC types and supply decoupling capacitors are soldered. It also
has a 6-pin header for PICkit2 and a socket for ICD2). The problem is that
the shipment cost from China is not that cheap so it makes no sense to
buy in single piece.


Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\03\12@010603 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 3/12/06, Cristóvão Dalla Costa <@spam@cdallacosta@spam@spamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I didn't understood you. One application on serial port at 115200 is
this toy I've made a long time ago:
http://www.surducan.netfirms.com/module.html
Do you mean you can't use 1MBps on RS232 ? this is true.
But you may use USB/232 where 1MBps it's not a problem, and BTW, USB
it's using a "serial cable".
greetings,
Vasile

2006\03\12@014703 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Vasile Surducan wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Vasile, what he was saying is that MPLAB and MicroChip do not allow the
ICD2 to
operate faster than 57.6kb, so the possibility of going faster is not
possible in this
situation. So, the clone ICD2 can't go faster, either.

--Bob



--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
RemoveMEattachspamspamBeGoneengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

're [EE] Report: FT232RL USB-Serial Converter Chip'
2006\03\12@170656 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> FTDI has created a truly remarkable chip,
>> the FT232RL. Its about the fastest possible
>> way to get a PIC connected to USB2.0.

>> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT232R.htm .


My friend Ken Mardle said:

> Sounds like their answer to the CP2102 and CP2103 from Silicon Labs.

How do these compare?

CP2102 data sheet

       http://www.silabs.com/public/documents/tpub_doc/dsheet/Microcontrollers/Interface/en/cp2102.pdf

Technical information

       http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/appmanager/tgw/tgwHome?_nfpb=true&searchPortlet_actionOverride=%2FbasicSearch%2FbasicSearch&_windowLabel=searchPortlet&_pageLabel=search_page


$US4.03/1 Digikey

       http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=60207&Site=US&Cat=33227974

CP2103 data sheet

   http://www.silabs.com/public/documents/tpub_doc/dsheet/Microcontrollers/Interface/en/cp2103.pdf

$US4.70/1 Digikey

       http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=60329&Row=118925&Site=US



       RM

2006\03\13@030521 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
I think the FT232R has the CP2102 beat:

1. The FT232R can supply an OUTPUT from the clock for use
of a local uP. The clock can be 6, 12, or 24 Mhz- or all 3.

2. The FT232R can provide any custom-divisable baud rate; the
CP2102 has a good variety but not to the extent of the FT232R.

3. While the utility of bit-bang mode is still up in the air, the FT232R
can provide 3 different versions.

4. The FT232R optionally can sink/source 12mA from its drive pins,
sometimes an important consideration, especially the fast clocks.

5. The TSSOP28 is better to handle than the QFN, meaning the
FT232RL is more hobbyist- friendly. I've yet to sucessfully mount
a QFN part.

On the other hand, the CP2102 has a 3V voltage regulator, the
FT232R doesn't.


BUT, thanks for pointing the CP2102 out. Good call.

--Bob

.

Russell McMahon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Note: To protect our network,
attachments must be sent to
spamBeGoneattach@spam@spamspam_OUTengineer.cotse.net .
1-520-850-1673 USA/Canada
http://beam.to/azengineer

2006\03\13@100521 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
Bob Axtell wrote:
> On the other hand, the CP2102 has a 3V voltage regulator, the
> FT232R doesn't.

I believe it does - the FT232R's 3V3OUT pin can source up to 50 mA.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\03\14@113903 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
The biggest advantage of the FTDI device is that the output pins have
a seperate VCC.  I can interface it to a 5V circuit, a 3V circuit, or
whatever I need to without fiddly voltage conversion.

For those of us who use these as universal programming devices, this
works out great since I can put the I/O vcc on the programming
connector and let my device determine the interface voltage, rather
than having one for my 2V stuff, one for 3.3V, and one for 5V.

Last time I checked, the CP device lacked in this area.

-Adam

On 3/13/06, Bob Axtell <TakeThisOuTengineerspamspamcotse.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

'[PIC] Report: Etekronix "Mini-ICD2" (sold on EBay)'
2006\03\22@085426 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Vasile Surducan wrote:

> On 3/12/06, Cristóvão Dalla Costa <RemoveMEcdallacostaEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
>> ... In fact, I'm yet to see any application which uses a higher datarate
>> since while the computer might handle 1 Mbps it still won't go through
>> a serial cable.
>
> I didn't understood you. One application on serial port at 115200 is
> this toy I've made a long time ago:
> http://www.surducan.netfirms.com/module.html

I'm also using regularly 115k2 bps for async serial debugging ports, over
several meters of normal Cat5 cable with DB9 connectors on both ends. Works
like a charm with standard PC ports, notebooks and USB-Serial adapters.

Some serial ports on the PC side seem to be finnicky with syncing at higher
speeds. In those cases, 8N2 format (instead of the more common 8N1) seems
to help a lot.

If then still not working, it could be the terminal program that screws up.

Gerhard


'[TECH] CAA report: Icarus flight accident'
2009\12\31@180531 by Vitaliy
face
flavicon
face
www.messybeast.com/dragonqueen/icarus-accident.htm

Excerpt from the report:

"The novel composite structure of the aircraft was known to be the subject
of physical restrictions on operating temperature. These restrictions had
been carefully explained to the pilot before the flight. When the pilot
climbed to a higher altitude the levels of ambient solar radiation probably
led to these temperature restrictions being exceeded, resulting in a thermal
degradation of the basic structure.
A progressive failure would have occurred, initial delamination of the upper
skin material would have been be followed by a compressive failure of the
upper mainspar. Brazier forces would then have extruded the internal wax
core material leading to a catastrophic failure of the entire primary
structure. This theory would help to explain why the second aircraft (at a
lower altitude) experienced no such failure."

2009\12\31@234500 by Russell McMahon

face picon face
re CAA Icarus air accident report:

Note that, despite the historical explanations for this accident and the CAA
conclusions, independent 'Brtish investigations at an earlier date have
suggested that a more plausible failure mode may have been wax embrittlement
dur to low temperatures at altitude. See end of report below for more
details on this.


     R



2010/1/1 Vitaliy <@spam@piclistRemoveMEspamEraseMEmaksimov.org>

{Quote hidden}


'[PIC] Report: ICP01-V1.1 PIC Programmer'
2011\07\24@210129 by Bob Axtell
face picon face
The ICP01-V1.1 was purchased to inexpensively program PIC16F1939s using
laptops in the field. It costs less than $20 USD on ebay,  or is  available on the website
WWW.PICCIRCUIT.COM for the same. These guys are located in ASIA so allow 10
days or so for shipping.

The ICP01 emulates the PICKIT2 in programming mode. For a tiny bit more, you
can buy a 40P socket which the ICP01 plugs into program loose PICs.

The ICP01 installed easier than my PICKIT2 ever did. It is ready to roll in less than 30 seconds.

It programs EVERYTHING the PICKIT2 can. I'm happy with these, and we will purchase more.

--Bob

2011\07\24@214337 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Bob Axtell <EraseMEengineerspam@spam@cotse.net> wrote:
> The ICP01-V1.1 was purchased to inexpensively program PIC16F1939s using
> laptops in the field. It costs less than $20 USD on ebay,  or is
> available on the website
> WWW.PICCIRCUIT.COM for the same. These guys are located in ASIA so allow 10
> days or so for shipping.
>
> The ICP01 emulates the PICKIT2 in programming mode. For a tiny bit more, you
> can buy a 40P socket which the ICP01 plugs into program loose PICs.
>
> The ICP01 installed easier than my PICKIT2 ever did. It is ready to roll
> in less than 30 seconds.
>
> It programs EVERYTHING the PICKIT2 can. I'm happy with these, and we
> will purchase more.
>

Hmm, this does not seem to be true.
www.piccircuit.com/pic-programmer/25-icp01-usb-pic-programmer.html
"Supported for 5V operation voltage only
3.3V supply, J-Series and in-Circuit Debugging mode are not supported".

It also lacks the AUX line so EEPROMs are not supported.

This one is more like PICKit 2. IMHO it is much better than the ICP01.
http://www.piccircuit.com/pic-programmer/55-icp02-usb-pic-programmer.html



-- Xiaofan

2011\07\24@220003 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
On 7/24/2011 6:43 PM, Xiaofan Chen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You are right. The ICP01 is 5V only. I was only looking for a 5V programmer..

The ICP02 (a few $ more) does 3.3V and 5V devices both.

--Bob

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2011 , 2012 only
- Today
- New search...