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'[EE]: Old disk drive refurbished stepper motor'
2001\02\24@033045 by Joan Ilari

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I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and
I would like to know its main features in order to use it
in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle,
max speed, etc...).

Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally
or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no
id number.

Thanks

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2001\02\24@045607 by David Flagg

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If you can't find any information from the manufacturer (via
manufacturer, part numbers, or even specs from the disk drive it came
out of), I recommend taking it apart and having a look at the guts of
the motor.  Not only will you be able to figure out some of these
parameters, but you'll learn how stepper motors function if you don't
already know.  In combination with a good resource like the following:

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html

you'll have a good handle on what is going on.  That particular
collection has more information than you probably want to know (I
haven't read through very much of it myself), but it has quite a few
links to other sources from which you will quickly learn the basics.  I
believe there might even be a link to a site on reverse engineering
these things.

With all that in mind, once you open your patient up, you can determine
how many phases the stepper has and how to command them (although you
can determine the number from the number of input leads, but I don't
think you can determine how to control more than 2 phases short of
experimentation).  You can also determine the step angle by the number
of teeth on the rotor.  I'm not sure how you would determine the working
voltage/max speed ... I believe they can operate over quite a range, but
the current is usually limited by the winding resistance and/or gauge of
the windings (I've seen 30 gauge which will handle something like 1A).

This certainly isn't the quick and dirty method, but I hope this helps
get you started.

- Dave

Joan Ilari wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\02\24@071821 by Joan Ilari

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Thanks, David. I knew this page which is really good. Based
on it I know that my motor is a variable reluctance one with
three windings. But besides this I know nothing more. I will try
to put it to work starting with a low voltage/current so as not
damage it and I will see what can I learn from my tests.

Anyway thanks for your reply

Joan

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2001\02\24@092356 by Roman Black

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Joan Ilari wrote:
>
> I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and
> I would like to know its main features in order to use it
> in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle,
> max speed, etc...).
>
> Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally
> or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no
> id number.


Joan, there are basically two types of old disk-drive
stepper motors. The head move motor is normally
12v at about 0.25A. These can be size 17, (square,
42mm/side). They are sometimes square and 39mm/side.
Newer drives have round motors which are much smaller
and less torque. These are always 12v motors. This is
because the disk drive only gets regulated 12v and 5v
from the PC power supply. 5v for the chips, always
12v for the motors.

If it is a flat "pancake" motor, this is the one that
spins the disc itself. These are a higher speed, low
torque motor but again run from 12v. They are 3-phase,
and seem to have little/no detent torque when not
powered up. They may seem like VR motor but are
really 3-phase perm magnet.

Either way you will never find a stepper motor in
a disk drive that runs from 5v. They are always
12v/coil. They will probably get warm at 12v, but
that is normal. When testing steppers try to keep
them less than 20 degrees C over ambient. (under
50 degrees C). If they are still cool after 10 mins
your voltage/current are safe. :o)
-Roman

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2001\02\24@095539 by Joan Ilari
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Roman Black [fastvidEraseMEspam.....EZY.NET.AU] wrote :

>  Joan, there are basically two types of old disk-drive
>  stepper motors. The head move motor is normally
>  12v at about 0.25A. These can be size 17, (square,
>  42mm/side). They are sometimes square and 39mm/side.
>  Newer drives have round motors which are much smaller
>  and less torque. These are always 12v motors. This is
>  because the disk drive only gets regulated 12v and 5v
>  from the PC power supply. 5v for the chips, always
>  12v for the motors.

OK. This a first step.
>
>  If it is a flat "pancake" motor, this is the one that
>  spins the disc itself. These are a higher speed, low
>  torque motor but again run from 12v. They are 3-phase,
>  and seem to have little/no detent torque when not
>  powered up. They may seem like VR motor but are
>  really 3-phase perm magnet.

Mine does not cog at all and, thus, I suspect it is a VR
motor. I have read also that 3 windings points to VR motors
(yes, I know, this is not mandatory)

>  Either way you will never find a stepper motor in
>  a disk drive that runs from 5v. They are always
>  12v/coil.

I have tried to feed mine with 5V and it "moves". If I
make it run with 5V instead of 12V, the motor will have
the 5/12th torque fraction than if I feed it with 12 V ?

>  They will probably get warm at 12v, but
>  that is normal. When testing steppers try to keep
>  them less than 20 degrees C over ambient. (under
>  50 degrees C). If they are still cool after 10 mins
>  your voltage/current are safe. :o)
>  -Roman

When do stepper motors heat the most ? I suspect that
when stopped. Is this right ?

Joan

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2001\02\24@122557 by Herbert Graf

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> I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and
> I would like to know its main features in order to use it
> in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle,
> max speed, etc...).
>
> Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally
> or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no
> id number.

       Hmm, well a few you can guess and a few you can measure. All PC harddrives
have access to 12V and 5V in the system, chances are the stepper has an
operating voltage of either of those. If it's an older drive it most likely
is a 12V stepper. You're max current doesn't really matter since it is
dependant on the max voltage, which you are guessing at right now! :)
       Angle/step is actually something you can measure yourself with great ease
(and in some cases great patience!). Simply mark the shaft somehow and then
count how many steps it takes to make a full revolution. Most steppers are
either 3.6 or 7.2 degrees per step although I HAVE seen weird variations.
       Max speed is going to depend on you working voltage so this will most
likely have to be tested after you get that parameter settled. On the bright
side usually the older the stepper the more "like a tank" it is, I have
never managed to kill a stepper (although I HAVE killed the controlling
electronics more than once because of bad design decisions on my end! :) ).
TTYL

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2001\02\25@164546 by Peter L. Peres

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>I have never managed to kill a stepper (although I HAVE killed the
>controlling electronics more than once because of bad design decisions on
>my end! :) ).

You must try harder ! ;). Try to build a voltage-forced stepper driver
using a chopper, from scratch, and maybe you will have success with
burning motors too ! They smell horribly for days thereafter ;(

Peter

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2001\02\25@192243 by Robert Rolf

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Isn't that why one uses fuses or circuit breakers???
I believe it's called 'good engineering practice'!
No design should be able to fail so as to destroy expensive
external hardware. That's why PSU's have crowbar cct's, etc.

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:
>
> >I have never managed to kill a stepper (although I HAVE killed the
> >controlling electronics more than once because of bad design decisions on
> >my end! :) ).
>
> You must try harder ! ;). Try to build a voltage-forced stepper driver
> using a chopper, from scratch, and maybe you will have success with
> burning motors too ! They smell horribly for days thereafter ;(

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2001\02\26@134607 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and
> I would like to know its main features in order to use it
> in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle,
> max speed, etc...).

If you mean the one that moves the head (not the one that rotates the disk),
most likely: 12V, number of steps to be determined experimentally (120?),
step speed idem (~20 ms?)
older 5.25 inch disks, 5 or 6 wires: 4-coil unipolar
newer 5.25 inch and all 3.25 disks, 4 wires: 2-coil bipolar

what I did with steppers:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/stepbots/index.html

Wouter

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'[OT]:: "Refurbished" Hard Disk in new PC'
2012\11\06@061059 by RussellMc
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Fell at the final fence, I think.
What say you?
Sounds like advanced madness to me.

Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than
the entry level of similar specs.

Manual
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/NL35%20Series%20&%20BC%20ES%20Series/Barracuda%20ES.2%20Series/100468393f.pdf

BUT - a "refurbiushed" HDD.
By who.
Factory?
2 year warranty.

       HDDSE3438        Seagate 1TB ES2 ST31000340NS SATA2 Enterprise 7200rpm 32MB
Cache Internal HDD Drive ( Refurbished stock with 2 year warranty )

System

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=WKSPB6024W&name=PB-Everyday-Home-PC-6024W-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3.2Gh

"Refurbished drives"

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=HDDSE3438&name=Seagate-1TB-ES2-ST31000340NS-SATA2-Enterprise-7200



                  Russel

2012\11\06@065559 by Justin Richards

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I say

To the finish along side Green Moon.

as they are

charging a premium.
look professional
honest using the word "refurbished"

If it was factory refurbished I would say it would on average out
perform the same non-refurbished.


On 6 November 2012 19:10, RussellMc <EraseMEapptechnzspamspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2012\11\06@070032 by Justin Richards

face picon face
> charging a premium.

I assumed AUD but at $139 NZD I think that it is still high

2012\11\06@093736 by John Ferrell

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I am curious what one might do to "refurbish" a hard drive.
The only measurement that I have available is the "SMART" criteria. It is a go-no go gauge with unknown characteristics.
The hardware on the drive situation leaves us dependent on the vendor with no real control of risk monitoring.
These drives may be Equivalent To New, the real question is whether the price difference is worth the unknown risk!
I vote may be...

On 11/6/2012 6:10 AM, RussellMc wrote:
{Quote hidden}

-- John Ferrell W8CCW

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
P.C. HODGELL

2012\11\06@111326 by Tamas Rudnai

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If you want "faster" disk, then check out the new hybrid drives instead in
my opinion. Those has an 64GB or 128GB SSD "cache" in it and places the
most often used blocks to the SSD part instead of the mechanical disk,
making the performance experience close to an SSD only one -- in the
meanwhile it has the same capacity as a pure mechanical drive.

Tamas



On 6 November 2012 03:10, RussellMc <RemoveMEapptechnzKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>

2012\11\06@120606 by Sergey Dryga

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RussellMc <apptechnz <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
> Fell at the final fence, I think.
> What say you?
> Sounds like advanced madness to me.
>
> Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than
> the entry level of similar specs.
>
Price seems too high, even with NZD to USD conversion.  e.g. Newegg has similar
Seagate drives for ~80USD.  If you really need speed, then either do a hybrid
SSD/HDD or HDD in striped raid.  Often, the bottleneck becomes computer
hardware, not the HDD.  
Sergey Dryga
http://beaglerobotics.com

2012\11\06@153212 by Dwayne Reid

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At 09:13 AM 11/6/2012, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
>If you want "faster" disk, then check out the new hybrid drives instead in
>my opinion. Those has an 64GB or 128GB SSD "cache" in it and places the
>most often used blocks to the SSD part instead of the mechanical disk,
>making the performance experience close to an SSD only one -- in the
>meanwhile it has the same capacity as a pure mechanical drive.
>
>Tamas

Hi there, Tamas.

I don't mean to hijack Russell's thread, but can you mention who makes hybrid drives with as much as 64 or 128GB of SSD cache?  I am familiar with Seagate's Momentus XT 750GB 2.5" drive with 8GB cache (I have one) but have not yet found anyone who makes a large-size 2.5" drive with more than 8GB SSD cache.

I'd love to find a 1TB or larger 2.5" drive with 64GB SSD cache for a rational price - but have not yet found one.  Can you suggest some suitable candidates?

Many thanks!

dwayne

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Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2012\11\06@195957 by Tamas Rudnai

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Hi Dwayne,

You are most probably right that there seems to be only "disk combos" which
I mistakenly thought it was one single hybrid drive.

This is what Apple using, but the article speculates that Apple is using an
external 128GB SSD for the cache and not actually using a Hybrid drive:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232802/Apple_announces_hybrid_drive_technology_in_Macs

This is clearly a hybrid drive combo with 100GB SSD:
http://www.buy.com/prod/ocz-technology-revodrive-hybrid-1tb-solid-state-drive-pci-express/223864744.html

BTW I guess you can use a smaller SSD for placing the operating system,
temp folder and the most often used applications and data on it and then
use a normal HD or a hybrid one for data.

Tamas



On 6 November 2012 12:32, Dwayne Reid <spamBeGonedwaynerSTOPspamspamEraseMEplanet.eon.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>

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