Post by thread:refurbished

I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and I would like to know its main features in order to use it in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle, max speed, etc...). Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no id number. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------- Joan Ilari spam_OUTjoan.ilariTakeThisOuTterra.es Barcelona Voice: +34 93 431 96 39 Spain "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die..." -Blade Runner- --------------------------------------------------------------- -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email .....listservKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

If you can't find any information from the manufacturer (via manufacturer, part numbers, or even specs from the disk drive it came out of), I recommend taking it apart and having a look at the guts of the motor. Not only will you be able to figure out some of these parameters, but you'll learn how stepper motors function if you don't already know. In combination with a good resource like the following: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html you'll have a good handle on what is going on. That particular collection has more information than you probably want to know (I haven't read through very much of it myself), but it has quite a few links to other sources from which you will quickly learn the basics. I believe there might even be a link to a site on reverse engineering these things. With all that in mind, once you open your patient up, you can determine how many phases the stepper has and how to command them (although you can determine the number from the number of input leads, but I don't think you can determine how to control more than 2 phases short of experimentation). You can also determine the step angle by the number of teeth on the rotor. I'm not sure how you would determine the working voltage/max speed ... I believe they can operate over quite a range, but the current is usually limited by the winding resistance and/or gauge of the windings (I've seen 30 gauge which will handle something like 1A). This certainly isn't the quick and dirty method, but I hope this helps get you started. - Dave Joan Ilari wrote: {Quote hidden}> I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and > I would like to know its main features in order to use it > in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle, > max speed, etc...). > > Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally > or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no > id number. > > Thanks > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Joan Ilari joan.ilariKILLspamterra.es > Barcelona Voice: +34 93 431 96 39 > Spain > > "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on > fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in > the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be > lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die..." > -Blade Runner- > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email .....listservKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Thanks, David. I knew this page which is really good. Based on it I know that my motor is a variable reluctance one with three windings. But besides this I know nothing more. I will try to put it to work starting with a low voltage/current so as not damage it and I will see what can I learn from my tests. Anyway thanks for your reply Joan {Quote hidden}> -----Mensaje original----- > De: pic microcontroller discussion list > [PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]En nombre de David Flagg > Enviado el: sabado, 24 de febrero de 2001 10:54 > Para: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Asunto: Re: [EE]: Old disk drive refurbished stepper motor > > > If you can't find any information from the manufacturer (via > manufacturer, part numbers, or even specs from the disk drive it came > out of), I recommend taking it apart and having a look at the guts of > the motor. Not only will you be able to figure out some of these > parameters, but you'll learn how stepper motors function if you don't > already know. In combination with a good resource like the following: > > http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/index.html > > you'll have a good handle on what is going on. That particular > collection has more information than you probably want to know (I > haven't read through very much of it myself), but it has quite a few > links to other sources from which you will quickly learn the basics. I > believe there might even be a link to a site on reverse engineering > these things. > > With all that in mind, once you open your patient up, you can determine > how many phases the stepper has and how to command them (although you > can determine the number from the number of input leads, but I don't > think you can determine how to control more than 2 phases short of > experimentation). You can also determine the step angle by the number > of teeth on the rotor. I'm not sure how you would determine the working > voltage/max speed ... I believe they can operate over quite a range, but > the current is usually limited by the winding resistance and/or gauge of > the windings (I've seen 30 gauge which will handle something like 1A). > > This certainly isn't the quick and dirty method, but I hope this helps > get you started. > > - Dave > > Joan Ilari wrote: > > > I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and > > I would like to know its main features in order to use it > > in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle, > > max speed, etc...). > > > > Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally > > or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no > > id number. > > > > Thanks > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Joan Ilari KILLspamjoan.ilariKILLspamterra.es > > Barcelona Voice: +34 93 431 96 39 > > Spain > > > > "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on > > fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in > > the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be > > lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die..." > > -Blade Runner- > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > > email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email spamBeGonelistservspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email TakeThisOuTlistservEraseMEspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Joan Ilari wrote: > > I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and > I would like to know its main features in order to use it > in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle, > max speed, etc...). > > Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally > or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no > id number. Joan, there are basically two types of old disk-drive stepper motors. The head move motor is normally 12v at about 0.25A. These can be size 17, (square, 42mm/side). They are sometimes square and 39mm/side. Newer drives have round motors which are much smaller and less torque. These are always 12v motors. This is because the disk drive only gets regulated 12v and 5v from the PC power supply. 5v for the chips, always 12v for the motors. If it is a flat "pancake" motor, this is the one that spins the disc itself. These are a higher speed, low torque motor but again run from 12v. They are 3-phase, and seem to have little/no detent torque when not powered up. They may seem like VR motor but are really 3-phase perm magnet. Either way you will never find a stepper motor in a disk drive that runs from 5v. They are always 12v/coil. They will probably get warm at 12v, but that is normal. When testing steppers try to keep them less than 20 degrees C over ambient. (under 50 degrees C). If they are still cool after 10 mins your voltage/current are safe. :o) -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Roman Black [fastvidEraseME.....EZY.NET.AU] wrote : > Joan, there are basically two types of old disk-drive > stepper motors. The head move motor is normally > 12v at about 0.25A. These can be size 17, (square, > 42mm/side). They are sometimes square and 39mm/side. > Newer drives have round motors which are much smaller > and less torque. These are always 12v motors. This is > because the disk drive only gets regulated 12v and 5v > from the PC power supply. 5v for the chips, always > 12v for the motors. OK. This a first step. > > If it is a flat "pancake" motor, this is the one that > spins the disc itself. These are a higher speed, low > torque motor but again run from 12v. They are 3-phase, > and seem to have little/no detent torque when not > powered up. They may seem like VR motor but are > really 3-phase perm magnet. Mine does not cog at all and, thus, I suspect it is a VR motor. I have read also that 3 windings points to VR motors (yes, I know, this is not mandatory) > Either way you will never find a stepper motor in > a disk drive that runs from 5v. They are always > 12v/coil. I have tried to feed mine with 5V and it "moves". If I make it run with 5V instead of 12V, the motor will have the 5/12th torque fraction than if I feed it with 12 V ? > They will probably get warm at 12v, but > that is normal. When testing steppers try to keep > them less than 20 degrees C over ambient. (under > 50 degrees C). If they are still cool after 10 mins > your voltage/current are safe. :o) > -Roman When do stepper motors heat the most ? I suspect that when stopped. Is this right ? Joan -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> I have a stepper motor salvaged from an old disk drive and > I would like to know its main features in order to use it > in my projects (working voltage, max current, step angle, > max speed, etc...). > > Is there some way of getting these parameters (experimentally > or through some kind of disk database ?). The motor has no > id number. Hmm, well a few you can guess and a few you can measure. All PC harddrives have access to 12V and 5V in the system, chances are the stepper has an operating voltage of either of those. If it's an older drive it most likely is a 12V stepper. You're max current doesn't really matter since it is dependant on the max voltage, which you are guessing at right now! :) Angle/step is actually something you can measure yourself with great ease (and in some cases great patience!). Simply mark the shaft somehow and then count how many steps it takes to make a full revolution. Most steppers are either 3.6 or 7.2 degrees per step although I HAVE seen weird variations. Max speed is going to depend on you working voltage so this will most likely have to be tested after you get that parameter settled. On the bright side usually the older the stepper the more "like a tank" it is, I have never managed to kill a stepper (although I HAVE killed the controlling electronics more than once because of bad design decisions on my end! :) ). TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Isn't that why one uses fuses or circuit breakers??? I believe it's called 'good engineering practice'! No design should be able to fail so as to destroy expensive external hardware. That's why PSU's have crowbar cct's, etc. "Peter L. Peres" wrote: > > >I have never managed to kill a stepper (although I HAVE killed the > >controlling electronics more than once because of bad design decisions on > >my end! :) ). > > You must try harder ! ;). Try to build a voltage-forced stepper driver > using a chopper, from scratch, and maybe you will have success with > burning motors too ! They smell horribly for days thereafter ;( -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

Fell at the final fence, I think. What say you? Sounds like advanced madness to me. Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than the entry level of similar specs. Manual http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/NL35%20Series%20&%20BC%20ES%20Series/Barracuda%20ES.2%20Series/100468393f.pdf BUT - a "refurbiushed" HDD. By who. Factory? 2 year warranty. HDDSE3438 Seagate 1TB ES2 ST31000340NS SATA2 Enterprise 7200rpm 32MB Cache Internal HDD Drive ( Refurbished stock with 2 year warranty ) System http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=WKSPB6024W&name=PB-Everyday-Home-PC-6024W-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3.2Gh "Refurbished drives" http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=HDDSE3438&name=Seagate-1TB-ES2-ST31000340NS-SATA2-Enterprise-7200 Russel

I say To the finish along side Green Moon. as they are charging a premium. look professional honest using the word "refurbished" If it was factory refurbished I would say it would on average out perform the same non-refurbished. On 6 November 2012 19:10, RussellMc <EraseMEapptechnzspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Fell at the final fence, I think. > What say you? > Sounds like advanced madness to me. > > Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than > the entry level of similar specs. > > Manual > http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/NL35%20Series%20&%20BC%20ES%20Series/Barracuda%20ES.2%20Series/100468393f.pdf > > BUT - a "refurbiushed" HDD. > By who. > Factory? > 2 year warranty. > > HDDSE3438 Seagate 1TB ES2 ST31000340NS SATA2 Enterprise 7200rpm 32MB > Cache Internal HDD Drive ( Refurbished stock with 2 year warranty ) > > System > > http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=WKSPB6024W&name=PB-Everyday-Home-PC-6024W-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3.2Gh > > "Refurbished drives" > > http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=HDDSE3438&name=Seagate-1TB-ES2-ST31000340NS-SATA2-Enterprise-7200 > > > > Russell >

I am curious what one might do to "refurbish" a hard drive. The only measurement that I have available is the "SMART" criteria. It is a go-no go gauge with unknown characteristics. The hardware on the drive situation leaves us dependent on the vendor with no real control of risk monitoring. These drives may be Equivalent To New, the real question is whether the price difference is worth the unknown risk! I vote may be... On 11/6/2012 6:10 AM, RussellMc wrote: {Quote hidden}> Fell at the final fence, I think. > What say you? > Sounds like advanced madness to me. > > Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than > the entry level of similar specs. > > Manual > http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/NL35%20Series%20&%20BC%20ES%20Series/Barracuda%20ES.2%20Series/100468393f.pdf > > BUT - a "refurbiushed" HDD. > By who. > Factory? > 2 year warranty. > > -- John Ferrell W8CCW That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. P.C. HODGELL

If you want "faster" disk, then check out the new hybrid drives instead in my opinion. Those has an 64GB or 128GB SSD "cache" in it and places the most often used blocks to the SSD part instead of the mechanical disk, making the performance experience close to an SSD only one -- in the meanwhile it has the same capacity as a pure mechanical drive. Tamas On 6 November 2012 03:10, RussellMc <RemoveMEapptechnzKILLspamgmail.com> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Fell at the final fence, I think. > What say you? > Sounds like advanced madness to me. > > Seems to be an "Enterprise drive" which is substantially faster than > the entry level of similar specs. > > Manual > > http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/NL35%20Series%20&%20BC%20ES%20Series/Barracuda%20ES.2%20Series/100468393f.pdf > > BUT - a "refurbiushed" HDD. > By who. > Factory? > 2 year warranty. > > HDDSE3438 Seagate 1TB ES2 ST31000340NS SATA2 Enterprise > 7200rpm 32MB > Cache Internal HDD Drive ( Refurbished stock with 2 year warranty ) > > System > > > http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=WKSPB6024W&name=PB-Everyday-Home-PC-6024W-Intel-Core-i5-3470-3.2Gh > > "Refurbished drives" > > > http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=HDDSE3438&name=Seagate-1TB-ES2-ST31000340NS-SATA2-Enterprise-7200 > > > > Russell >

At 09:13 AM 11/6/2012, Tamas Rudnai wrote: >If you want "faster" disk, then check out the new hybrid drives instead in >my opinion. Those has an 64GB or 128GB SSD "cache" in it and places the >most often used blocks to the SSD part instead of the mechanical disk, >making the performance experience close to an SSD only one -- in the >meanwhile it has the same capacity as a pure mechanical drive. > >Tamas Hi there, Tamas. I don't mean to hijack Russell's thread, but can you mention who makes hybrid drives with as much as 64 or 128GB of SSD cache? I am familiar with Seagate's Momentus XT 750GB 2.5" drive with 8GB cache (I have one) but have not yet found anyone who makes a large-size 2.5" drive with more than 8GB SSD cache. I'd love to find a 1TB or larger 2.5" drive with 64GB SSD cache for a rational price - but have not yet found one. Can you suggest some suitable candidates? Many thanks! dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <dwaynerSTOPspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax http://www.trinity-electronics.com Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

Hi Dwayne, You are most probably right that there seems to be only "disk combos" which I mistakenly thought it was one single hybrid drive. This is what Apple using, but the article speculates that Apple is using an external 128GB SSD for the cache and not actually using a Hybrid drive: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232802/Apple_announces_hybrid_drive_technology_in_Macs This is clearly a hybrid drive combo with 100GB SSD: http://www.buy.com/prod/ocz-technology-revodrive-hybrid-1tb-solid-state-drive-pci-express/223864744.html BTW I guess you can use a smaller SSD for placing the operating system, temp folder and the most often used applications and data on it and then use a normal HD or a hybrid one for data. Tamas On 6 November 2012 12:32, Dwayne Reid <spamBeGonedwaynerSTOPspamEraseMEplanet.eon.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> At 09:13 AM 11/6/2012, Tamas Rudnai wrote: > >If you want "faster" disk, then check out the new hybrid drives instead in > >my opinion. Those has an 64GB or 128GB SSD "cache" in it and places the > >most often used blocks to the SSD part instead of the mechanical disk, > >making the performance experience close to an SSD only one -- in the > >meanwhile it has the same capacity as a pure mechanical drive. > > > >Tamas > > Hi there, Tamas. > > I don't mean to hijack Russell's thread, but can you mention who > makes hybrid drives with as much as 64 or 128GB of SSD cache? I am > familiar with Seagate's Momentus XT 750GB 2.5" drive with 8GB cache > (I have one) but have not yet found anyone who makes a large-size > 2.5" drive with more than 8GB SSD cache. > > I'd love to find a 1TB or larger 2.5" drive with 64GB SSD cache for a > rational price - but have not yet found one. Can you suggest some > suitable candidates? > > Many thanks! > > dwayne > > -- > Dwayne Reid <KILLspamdwaynerspamBeGoneplanet.eon.net> > Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA > (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax > http://www.trinity-electronics.com > Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing > >