Post by thread:programming 16C84 with PicStart 16C ?

Hello there I have a Picstart 16C programmer board, and an application for which I would like to use a 16C84 PIC. It seems from the documentation that I have that the programmer will not normally do this. I'm trying to get this little project up & running with little (/no!) cost. From looking at the data sheets, it seems like the serial programming modes of the 16C7xx and the 16C84, at least, are pretty similar. My query: does anyone have information as to whether I could hack the Picstart programmer, and/or write my own software to drive it, in order to program the 16C84? I'm very comfortable with C etc., and capable of doing the work, but don't want to try to work out the serial protocol of the programmer if I find out that it's not possible for some reason. If making some sort of HW adapter board for the PIC is needed, that's no problem either. thanks for any info regards jon Nicoll

> >My query: does anyone have information as to whether I could hack >the Picstart programmer, and/or write my own software to drive it, >in order to program the 16C84? I'm very comfortable with C etc., and capable >of doing the work, but don't want to try to work out the serial protocol >of the programmer if I find out that it's not possible for some reason. >If making some sort of HW adapter board for the PIC is needed, that's >no problem either. > > thanks for any info > regards > jon Nicoll > Jon, You under-estimate how different the 16C84 is programming wise to the other 16Cxx parts. It is extremely doubtful the PS 16C can be used to program a 16C84 regardless of what new driver you write for it. This is because the timing and required command set are generated by the onboard firmware, not the software driver. It is doubtful the 16C84 algorithm is present in the PS 16C. There are however, many low cost solutions for programming the 16C84 and no doubt you will receive further pointers on this. I am currently working on a project to upgrade the PS 16B to do all the devices not currently covered by it. This includes the 40-pin and 28-pin 16Cxx parts, the PIC14000 and the PIC12Cxxx parts, but, unfortunately for you, this is no help. Regards Jim

Hi Jim thanks for replying to my query. I am/was actually in the middle of building a board to program the 16C84 when a friend came up with the 16C programmer. From what you and others say, it seems I am right to keep on building... Does your upgrading of the 16B programmer include upgrading the on-board firmware? Do you happen to know if Microchip allow reading of the firmware on the 16B/C programmer boards. (?) Best regards jon N

At 03:16 PM 9/11/96 BST, you wrote: >Hi Jim > thanks for replying to my query. I am/was actually in the middle >of building a board to program the 16C84 when a friend came up with the >16C programmer. From what you and others say, it seems I am right to keep >on building... > >Does your upgrading of the 16B programmer include upgrading the on-board >firmware? Do you happen to know if Microchip allow reading of the firmware on > the >16B/C programmer boards. > (?) > > Best regards > jon N > Jon, Yes, keep on building. My upgrade for the PS 16B does involve new firmware call "phoenix." New firmware is required to properly manage all the features of all the devices. This is especially true with the PIC14000 and the PIC12Cxxx devices. I have need actually tried to read the old firmware myself so I don't know if it is code protected. Hang on a second, I'll try it now...... Bummer! it is code protected so I guess the answer is no. For V1.7 at least. Oh well, good luck with the 16C84 programmer anyway. Regards, Jim

Hi Jim out of interest (mainly), do you know the H/W differences between the 16B and the 16C PicStart programmers? Microchip do seem to have a confusing range of programming devices. Since the PicStart 16C kit includes an EPROM 16C<can't remember>, I was toying with the idea of working out the cct, blowing a new PIC, and using that. Partly as an exercise, and partly because the PicStart is a nicer bit of H/W than the cheap & cheerful thing I'm knocking up at the moment... cheers jon N

At 09:43 AM 9/12/96 BST, you wrote: >Hi Jim > out of interest (mainly), do you know the H/W differences between >the 16B and the 16C PicStart programmers? Microchip do seem to have a >confusing range of programming devices. Since the PicStart 16C kit includes >an EPROM 16C<can't remember>, I was toying with the idea of working out the >cct, blowing a new PIC, and using that. Partly as an exercise, and partly >because the PicStart is a nicer bit of H/W than the cheap & cheerful >thing I'm knocking up at the moment... > > cheers > jon N > Jon, The picstart 16s both use a 17C42 chip for the firmware so there goes your idea of "rolling your own." The main difference between the 16B and 16C is the ZIF socket size and wiring. The 16C is a much simpler programmer as it doesn't require multipling or widely different algorithms for the 16C84 and 16C5x parts. -Jim