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'posting schematics as pspice model'
1999\02\25@113809 by Jochen Feldhaar

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Hello to you all,

there would be an interesting alternative to sending a high-gloss, high
definition schematic drawing, born in the era of the IBM XT, where memory
was extremely scarce. The trick is to define numbers for all nodes in the
circuit, and then connect the parts. Doing this, a large schematic will
take as much space as a code snippet.

For the schematic in question we will asusume that VCC is node 1, input is
node 2, +12V is node 5, GND is node 0, and the output is node 6.
Transistors are in CBE sequence.

R6  2  3  10K
R27  1  3  100K
Q7  4  3  0  BC548
R7  5  4  10K
Q12  5  4  6  BC337
Q16  0  4  6  BC327

This will make a very big schematic very small, and can be read into some
CAD packages directly, if routed afterwards...  :-)

Please keep up the steady flow of excellent answers, hints, questions and -
of course - schematics and code.

Greetings,

Jochen DH6FAZ
spam_OUTjfTakeThisOuTspamdetektor.de

1999\02\25@115233 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
There is a friend of mine that was producing a JavaScript
small program to create *and* show simple electronic diagram.

The idea was to solve this great problem of sending large
files to represent ideas and suggestions.  It was right
after a *big* problem happened at that .....atmelKILLspamspam@spam@pic.co.za.

The program creates a very small file to be attached and
great results on the web browser image.  I tested it at
the first versions, it was great.

I will try to find out about it.

--------------------------------------------------------
Wagner Lipnharski - UST Research Inc. - Orlando, Florida
Forum and microcontroller web site:   http:/http://www.ustr.net
Microcontrollers Survey:  http://www.ustr.net/tellme.htm

1999\02\25@121257 by Octavio Nogueira

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Anyone knows SCH-DRAW? it's a dos software to draw
ASCII schematics and you can use the mouse with it.

                         /"\
Friendly Regards          \ /
                          X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
Octavio Nogueira          / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
===================================================
nogueiraspamKILLspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
>From the creator of ProPic,ProPic 2 now much better
New ProPic 2  homepage:      http://www.propic2.com
PIC Programmer for Windows with down to earth price
===================================================
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Wagner Lipnharski <.....wagnerlKILLspamspam.....EARTHLINK.NET>
Para: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Quinta-feira, Fevereiro 25, 1999 01:50
Assunto: Re: posting schematics as pspice model


{Quote hidden}

1999\02\25@170216 by Russell McMahon

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I did just this a few months ago to send a cct to a PICliset'er.
He had never met the method but had no trouble manually drawing the
circuit.
I think an ASCII art drawer, possibly based on this method MAY be a
solution, provided that it was freeware and would run on all the
strange :-) Os's people seem to insist on using.



Russell McMahon


{Original Message removed}

1999\02\26@065608 by caisson

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> Van: Jochen Feldhaar <KILLspamjfeldhaaKILLspamspamDETEKTOR.DE>
> Aan: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: posting schematics as pspice model
> Datum: donderdag 25 februari 1999 17:37
>
> Hello to you all,

Hello Jochen,

> For the schematic in question we will asusume that VCC is node 1, input
is
> node 2, +12V is node 5, GND is node 0, and the output is node 6.
> Transistors are in CBE sequence.

Nice idea !  Some suggestions though.  Define all I/O as they appear, and
put the Value at the second position (The number of Nodes vary, the number
of Values is allways One).   Example :

R6 10K 1 2
Clock 2Khz 1      'I/O-pin
R27 100k 3 2
VCC +5 3           'Supply-Voltage
GND - 4              'Ground connection
Q7 BC548 5 2 4

Etcetera.

With this method you can create any number of voltages / Input / Output /
etc.  at will.   Another Plus is that _all_ connections are defined.
Whomever pick's up this file whould be able to intuitivily grasp the
"coding" of the file and create his/her own "conversion" program for
his/her favorite schematic package (Oh, how I dispise all those packages
with their non-interpretable "export" files) ...

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1999\02\26@065618 by caisson

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> Van: Jochen Feldhaar <spamBeGonejfeldhaaspamBeGonespamDETEKTOR.DE>
> Aan: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: posting schematics as pspice model
> Datum: donderdag 25 februari 1999 17:37
>
> Hello to you all,

Hello Jochen,

<Snip>

> For the schematic in question we will asusume that VCC is node 1, input
is
> node 2, +12V is node 5, GND is node 0, and the output is node 6.
> Transistors are in CBE sequence.

Nice idea !  But I've got a suggestion to do : Define every Nodes as they
appear.  A part with just one Node equals a I/O Connection.  This way you
can create Voltage / Input / Output / etc.  Nodes at will ...  And put the
"Value" parameter at the second position (The number of nodes can vary ...)
Example :

V++   12v       1         'Define a first voltage
GND   0v        2         'Define Ground
VCC   5v        3         'Define a second voltage
Clock 2Khz    4   'Define I/O
Out0  Trigger  5          'Define I/O

And than go on with whatever parts you want to connect.  This way _all_ of
the connections (Nodes, names & values) are defined in the file ...

By the way : It's not mandatory this way to define the I/O at the beginning
of the file, they can be defined anywhere.

> R6  2  3  10K
> R27  1  3  100K
> Q7  4  3  0  BC548
> R7  5  4  10K
> Q12  5  4  6  BC337
> Q16  0  4  6  BC327
>
> This will make a very big schematic very small, and can be read into some
> CAD packages directly, if routed afterwards...  :-)

It will probably not be possible to read this kind of file into a CAD
package, but it _is_ possible to recognise ( at first glance ! ) all
connections that are made, enabeling everyone to write their own
"conversion" routines for their favorite schematic packages.

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1999\02\26@100828 by Lawrence Lile

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-----Original Message-----
From: Octavio Nogueira <RemoveMEnogueiraspamTakeThisOuTMANDIC.COM.BR>
To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU <EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: posting schematics as pspice model


>Anyone knows SCH-DRAW? it's a dos software to draw
>ASCII schematics and you can use the mouse with it.
>
>                          /"\
>Friendly Regards          \ /
>                           X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
>Octavio Nogueira          / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL


That's great for you lucky people that can READ these ASCII jibberish files!
My new mail program scrambles them into an unreadable mess.  I used to have
the option of viewing them in a monospaced font.  Not any more! Thanks to
Bill Gates and WIN 95 that option is gone.

Not to mention I could never draw them either.  The Two ends of the "bow" in
your "ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN" come out of the top of the "II"  on my screen,
and there's nothing I can do about it!  I HATE ascii schematics.

1999\02\26@122921 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 09:04 02/26/99 -0600, Lawrence Lile wrote:
>the option of viewing them in a monospaced font.  Not any more! Thanks to
>Bill Gates and WIN 95 that option is gone.

you probably still have the option of selecting a monospaced font for your
mail viewer, somewhere in your setup.

ge

1999\02\26@123328 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 09:56 02/26/99 +0100, caisson wrote:
>> R6  2  3  10K
>> R27  1  3  100K
>> Q7  4  3  0  BC548
>> R7  5  4  10K
>> Q12  5  4  6  BC337
>> Q16  0  4  6  BC327

if somebody posts such a "schematic," please do include the sequence for
not-obvious parts like transistors, like in

>> Q16  0  4  6  BC327(cbe)

or so (i don't know if i got it right! :)  if somebody doesn't know the
convention (and nobody who doesn't use this on a daily base will remember
the convention), he can't make sense of it. doesn't cost much.

ge

1999\02\26@153350 by John Payson

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|That's great for you lucky people that can READ these ASCII jibberish files!
|My new mail program scrambles them into an unreadable mess.  I used to have
|the option of viewing them in a monospaced font.  Not any more! Thanks to
|Bill Gates and WIN 95 that option is gone.

|Not to mention I could never draw them either.  The Two ends of the "bow" in
|your "ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN" come out of the top of the "II"  on my screen,
|and there's nothing I can do about it!  I HATE ascii schematics.

Put the blame where blame is due.  Monospaced text with a line limit
of slightly under 80 characters [to allow for quoting] is a standard
that's been around for aeons.  Rather than blaming the people who use
the standard to its fullest, why not blame Mr. Gates and his company
can't even produce an RFC-compliant E-mail client?

1999\02\26@154425 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
This is why I still using Netscape 4.xx, that allows other things
as multi layers and other nice features.

Another suggestion about the drawings is using a paper with a
matrix drawing on it, like coordinates, not nodes numbers, but
instead you use this matrix coordinates.  The minimum space between
the cells would be about the transistor base/emitter distance, so
everything else could be drawn on the matrix.

The advantage of the matrix is that you can draw a wire with
angles and changes in direction, what is impossible if you
use just node numbers to represent it.

So, components will be represented just by its code and
position, as well wires.

A small library of components bitmap could be developed and
then just the component code needs to be transmitted.

The transmitted code would be:
COMPONENT CODE
COMPONENT NUMBER
COMPONENT VALUE
COORDINATE PIN #1 (X,Y)
COORDINATE PIN #2 (X,Y)
COORDINATE PIN #3 (X,Y)
COORDINATE PIN #4...

A 100 ohms resistor (R7) in the matrix, side A at (x,y) 25,25
and B at (x,y) 30,25, would be represented this way:

R,7,100,25,25,30,25

A capacitor in the same node (25,25) connected the other side
to position 25,50, C9, value 100nF would be:

C,9,100nF,25,25,25,50

Angled wires can be represented by simple sequence of several
wires, each one connecting matrix x,y location.  A wire that
goes horizontally for 5 cells, starting at 25,25 then going
up 10 cells to 35,25, having a label of "Clock" would be:

W,Clock,0,25,25,35,25

A transistor could be

T,T2,2N2222,25,25,26,26,27,25

The end of line ends multiple pin coordinates.

So, a simple graphic program using the common library can
just plot the component bitmap on the matrix coordinates and
make the connections with the wires.  The program would automatically
extend the component lead if necessary to reach the coordinates,
so components will have "elastic" leads.

In real lots of PCB and Schematic design programs use similar
techniques, storing the coordinates, not nodes.  It is functional,
but they store also lots of other details, not totally necessary
for us at this moment.

I can think to do something like that for PC DOS program and graphic
screen, but, it could be done in Java Script and get the information
directly from the email, when clicking the atrachment file containing
the drawing code.  Like sound and image plays automatically using
browser plugins...

Somebody knows about how to produce plugins for Netscape and Explorer?

Wagner.



Lawrence Lile wrote:
>
> {Original Message removed}

1999\02\26@172900 by Eisermann, Phil

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> At 09:04 02/26/99 -0600, Lawrence Lile wrote:
> >the option of viewing them in a monospaced font.  Not any more!
> Thanks to
> >Bill Gates and WIN 95 that option is gone.
>
> you probably still have the option of selecting a monospaced font for
> your
> mail viewer, somewhere in your setup.
>
       i am forced to use Microsoft Outlook, and i do
       not have that option. i can set fonts when
       composing, replying, or forwarding (and all
       three can be different), but I cannot set the
       font for viewing email. seems kinda silly to
       omit this, but then again, a lot of things
       about Gatesware seem silly to me.

1999\02\26@221828 by Bob Drzyzgula

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Hmmm. Of which of the myriad verisons of Outlook do we
speak?  I could be wrong, but I believe that this should
be possible in any of them. I just tried it in Outlook
Express and was able to achieve this, although it was of
course not straightforward: Tools... Options... Read Tab;
click the "Fonts" button, and in the "proportional fonts"
pull-down, *select a monospaced font* (I used Monospac821
BT, but Courier should also work; check the "fixed width
font" pull-down for a list of monospaced fonts available on
your machine. Then, click on "set as default", click the
"OK" buttons to back yourself out, *exit Outlook Express*,
and start it again. Now it should show your messages in your
monospaced font. Dumb, but it works.

My copy of regular Outlook is broken on the win95 machine
I have here (the mapi32.dll got clobbered at some point),
but I'll try it on my notebook a little later to see if I
can make it work there. But you likely have to do a similar
thing, tell it to use a fixed-width font when it wants to
use a proportional font.

Generally, I just use mutt and vi on a Linux box, but
I do also on occasion have to beat various Windows
products into submission; it is usually possible, but
the required incantations are often quite obscure.

--Bob

On Fri, Feb 26, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0500, Eisermann, Phil wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
RemoveMEbobEraseMEspamEraseMEdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\02\26@231539 by Mark Willis

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Some thoughts to add to others' good thoughts:

 Not only Transistors but DIODES! need AK (vs. CBE) designated.  And I
haven't been seeing any kind of power ratings on resistors in there
(Pretty dang important for lots of parts, folks!)  Though for more
flexibility, cautions like "Heatsink the U7 regulator!" might need to be
in text after the description.

 Some sort of named call could be used, i.e.
 D, 1, 1N4001, PIV=25, I=1mA, AK=5,3
 would mean "I used a 1N4001 as D1, you need 25+PIV but only 1mA max
current, put cathode to node 3 and anode to node 5."  A 1N4148 might
work instead here, or a 1N914, but this way you'd know what had been
used!
 R, 12, 1k2, 10W, At=14,5 //must be a non-inductive resistor!
 Q, 3, 2N2222A, NPN, Beta=20+, V=50, I=20mA, CBE=4,5,6
 i.e. Beta must be 20 or more.

 If some company had a scheme & would publish it, we could USE a subset
of that spec (It'd be sorta an inducement to some to buy that product -
if you could drop a schematic into that circuit editor, move parts
around & then route to get rid of the rubber bandings & you're done...
Dream on, huh?)

 I don't really need others' exact wire routings, trace dimensions, via
and pad locations, etc. etc. for a quick sketched idea of how to do an
oscillator or a hardware switch debouncer or a 120VAC to 5VDC power
supply, safely and functionally - I can hand-sketch the schematic in MY
style, well enough, the whole idea here is to really minimize
listserve-wide character count.  Something like a mutated wirelist from
the right package should be about right.

 And we might want to keep it sort of "Meta", come to think of it, as
if all I need is two inverters and a tri-state buffer in there, I don't
really need the rest of those IC's in there - if we can at least put
MOST parts in pretty specifically, though, it'd be easier on all of us.
So some parts might need to be "non-compliant" with the source parkage,
or take extra editing, whatever <G>

 Mark

1999\02\27@020300 by erik

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Hi all,

I'm using a program from Micro Code Engineering called Circuit Maker.
Schematics are saved with a .ckt extension.  When viewing the properties
for that extension,
it says : "ASCII Exchange".  The file is saved as ASCII text. I have not
taken a long enough look at
it to decipher it yet but...
Is this an already established standard or would it be unique to Circuit
Maker.

Is anyone familiar with "ASCII Exchange"?

Erik

----Sample---
CircuitMaker Text
5
41 35 62 4 97 108 86 46 82 16 73 113 113 59 105 107
0 5 0 1e+009 0.001 2
33
13 10 13 12 18 10 20 20 12 20
10 13 13 10 20 13 20 20 14 20
18 19 14 16 20 20 20 20 10 13
20 18 11
562 84 30 100 3
0 118 800 600
7 5.000 V
7 5.000 V
3 GND
0 118 800 600
144212486 0

1999\02\27@052722 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,
I use also since somebody has recommended it in this list. It's great with
only one drawback: the maximal size of the schematic is 80x25 (chars).
It's enough to send ideas and smaller snippets, however. The most
advantage that's why I vote for it the output is human-readable.

Imre


On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Octavio Nogueira wrote:

{Quote hidden}


'posting schematics as pspice model'
1999\03\01@021805 by Jochen Feldhaar
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Hello Mark and the list,

for abbreviation I have left out these things in the small file I described
to the list. All the things you want are included in macromodel definitions
possible in PSPICE. You have big data libraries with the software package,
and numerous suppliers will also provide you with the macromodel data to
the devices you employ.

Have a closer look on some demo version, I think they may be downloadable
via the net.

Greetings,

Jochen Feldhaar, DH6FAZ
spamBeGonejfSTOPspamspamEraseMEdetektor.de

1999\03\01@075354 by Caisson

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> Van: Gerhard Fiedler <KILLspamlistsspamBeGonespamHOME.COM>
> Aan: EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: posting schematics as pspice model
> Datum: vrijdag 26 februari 1999 18:32

Hello Gerhard,

> if somebody posts such a "schematic," please do include the sequence for
> not-obvious parts like transistors, like in
>
> >> Q16  0  4  6  BC327(cbe)
>
> or so (i don't know if i got it right! :)  if somebody doesn't know the
> convention (and nobody who doesn't use this on a daily base will remember
> the convention), he can't make sense of it. doesn't cost much.

Convention for a Transistor could be C,B,E regardless whatever physical
order the connections have.  For IC's it could be the pin-order.  But you
are right.  Some components are not trivial.   I'll have to thing about
that some more .... :-)

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1999\03\01@101749 by Lawrence Lile

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-----Original Message-----
From: John Payson <@spam@supercat@spam@spamspam_OUTCIRCAD.COM>
>|Not to mention I could never draw them either.  The Two ends of the "bow"
in
>|your "ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN" come out of the top of the "II"  on my
screen,
>|and there's nothing I can do about it!  I HATE ascii schematics.
>
>Put the blame where blame is due.  Monospaced text with a line limit
>of slightly under 80 characters [to allow for quoting] is a standard
>that's been around for aeons.  Rather than blaming the people who use
>the standard to its fullest, why not blame Mr. Gates and his company
>can't even produce an RFC-compliant E-mail client?


It's true.  Lots of people have suggested I try to use a monospaced or
Courier font in MS Outlook Express,  which I had already done.  Tried 'em
all, none of them display ASCII stuff any better.  If my IT people didn't
force me to use Microsoft software, I'd be using Netscape now.  Oh well, if
I REALLY need to look at a schematic, I'll paste it into notepad.  Mostly
that's too much trouble and I'll just keep looking at gibberish.  Let's drop
this topic, OK?

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