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PICList Thread
'picstart plus hot socket'
1997\06\08@172336 by Jerry English

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Hello,
I have a few questions that I hope I can get an answer to here.
I am using a picstart plus programmer to program the 17c43.
I have established communication with the device. For some
reason I decided to measure the pin voltages on the zif socket.
I found that pins 19, 23-29, 38 and 39 have 5 volts on them.
Not just some float charge mind you, but with milliamps behind
it.( did a short circuit current measurement ). The version
of software in the device is 1.01.00. I upgraded mplab to the latest
on the bbs (3.22 ??). Now I have version 1.2 for the picstart plus on the
hard drive but no 17c44 to put it in. Besides I'm not sure I would
want to drop a new 17c44 into a HOT socket. Now for the questions.
1. Is my picstart plus broken or do all the picstarts have hot sockets?
2. Does upgrading to rev 1.2 eliminate hot sockets?

I pushed the read button in the window and yes the voltage does
go to zero on some of the pins but returns to 5 volts at the end
of the read operation. Almost seems like an initial setting mistake
in version 1.01.00.
I looked over in Deja News but didn't find anything related to my
problem.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

regards

Jerry English

1997\06\09@051949 by David Gould

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I don't have an answer to your question, but I do notice that you have
a Picstart Plus. How do you like it? I am thinking of getting one, so I am
looking for opinions and experience with the Picstart. Thanks.

-dg

David Gould           spam_OUTdgTakeThisOuTspamillustra.com            510.869.6383 or 510.305.9468
Informix Software (formerly Illustra)  1111 Broadway #2000  Oakland, CA 94607
- I realize now that irony has no place in business communications.

1997\06\10@015752 by Jim Robertson

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At 05:23 PM 6/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I have a few questions that I hope I can get an answer to here.
>I am using a picstart plus programmer to program the 17c43.
>I have established communication with the device. For some
>reason I decided to measure the pin voltages on the zif socket.
>I found that pins 19, 23-29, 38 and 39 have 5 volts on them.
>Not just some float charge mind you, but with milliamps behind
>it.( did a short circuit current measurement ). The version
>of software in the device is 1.01.00. I upgraded mplab to the latest
>on the bbs (3.22 ??). Now I have version 1.2 for the picstart plus on the
>hard drive but no 17c44 to put it in. Besides I'm not sure I would
>want to drop a new 17c44 into a HOT socket. Now for the questions.


>1. Is my picstart plus broken or do all the picstarts have hot sockets?

I have firmware 1.2 and the same pins are also at 5V. All the pins you
mentioned are connected directly to portb of the 17C44 and it could suggest
there is a mistake in the firmware with portb wrongly initialized if you
are saying there are milliamps of current.

Otherwise it could just be the weak pull-ups on portb.

Interestingly, portb,6 is ok and this would be because portb,6 is used as a
VDD feedback sense and has been initialized correctly???


>2. Does upgrading to rev 1.2 eliminate hot sockets?

No.

>I pushed the read button in the window and yes the voltage does
>go to zero on some of the pins but returns to 5 volts at the end
>of the read operation. Almost seems like an initial setting mistake
>in version 1.01.00.

>I looked over in Deja News but didn't find anything related to my
>problem.
>Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

No one else has complained about side effects and It doesn't seem to be
causing problems even though we know it is not ideal to be like that. I
don't think it will kill your chips. If that is your concern.

Regards,

Jim


>regards
>
>Jerry English
>
>

1997\06\10@082345 by Jerry English

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> David Gould wrote
>I don't have an answer to your question, but I do notice that you have
>a Picstart Plus. How do you like it? I am thinking of getting one, so I am
>looking for opinions and experience with the Picstart. Thanks.

>-dg

I don't like the fact that the socket has voltage on it when one inserts
the device to be programmed. I like that it can program multiple devices.
I don't like having to load the file first into mplab then program
the device. I would rather have it present a list of files for programming
when the button is pushed.  Overall the programmer doesn't meet my expectations.
I expected to use it to program devices in circuit but with the socket hot
I think the best course of action for us is to find a programmer that doesn't
have a hot socket.

regards
Jerry English

1997\06\10@211126 by Mike Keitz

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On Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:22:50 -0400 Jerry English
<.....jenglishKILLspamspam@spam@SU1B.ESS.HARRIS.COM> writes:
[...]
>I don't like the fact that the socket has voltage on it when one
>inserts
>the device to be programmed. I like that it can program multiple
>devices.
>I don't like having to load the file first into mplab then program
>the device. I would rather have it present a list of files for
>programming
>when the button is pushed.  Overall the programmer doesn't meet my
>expectations.
>I expected to use it to program devices in circuit but with the socket
>hot
>I think the best course of action for us is to find a programmer that
>doesn't
>have a hot socket.

I've had excellent results from the PICStart Plus.  It's not particularly
cheap but then if you just want to pay your money and go it is a good way
to concentrate on your (money making?) PIC application rather than having
to build a programmer first.  It works with almost any device in the
catalog (other than the 68-pin one).  Not being able to program in
circuit is a big minus.  They should put a port on it which produces the
signals needed to patch to an in-circuit PIC.  Then I could just run 4
wires over to my proto-board and update a PIC16F84 immediately.  There
are other ways to do that though.  Programming the EPROM ones in-circuit
is not too useful for a program development environment because they
would still need to be physically moved to a UV light to erase.

I looked for the "hot socket" and could only draw 120 uA from pin 39
(2.4V across a 2.2K resistor) to ground (one of the target PIC pins, I
forget which, is always grounded).  This doesn't seem to be a lot of
current, unlikely to cause damage.  Someone else mentioned that the "hot"
pins are connected directly to PortB pins of the 17C44 inside the
PICSTART.  It appears that they forgot to turn off the PortB pullups, or
maybe they are on for a reason.  Something for the next revision,
perhaps.  I looked through the hex file for that PIC and didn't find any
direct writes to PortA (Bit 7 in the portA register controls the portB
pullups).  But I didn't look very hard.  Shouldn't be looking there
anyway.

-Mike

1997\06\10@222952 by Stephen R. Synakowski

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Mike Keitz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I heard that you can jumper the pins from the picstart socket to the
board having the unprogrammed part since the picstart plus programs
serially anyway. This came from a MChIP guy. I haven't gotten around to
trying it though.  Steve

1997\06\11@011315 by Bruce Cannon

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>Not being able to program in
> circuit is a big minus.  They should put a port on it which produces the
> signals needed to patch to an in-circuit PIC.  Then I could just run 4
> wires over to my proto-board and update a PIC16F84 immediately.

I rigged a cable to an 18 pin socket and have been programming my
soldered-in '84's for months through the PICStart Plus.  It works fine so
far, I love it.


----------
Bruce Cannon
Style Management Systems

Remember: electronics is changing your world...for good!

1997\06\11@103048 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 22:04 10/06/97 -0700, Bruce Cannon wrote:
>I rigged a cable to an 18 pin socket and have been programming my
>soldered-in '84's for months through the PICStart Plus.  It works fine so
>far, I love it.

Do you use any special precautions with the /MCLR pin? Do you share the PB
pins with other IO? (I.e. how much current can the PicStart Plus source?)
I'd be very interested in your experiences.

Thanks

-------------------------------------
Gerhard Fiedler <.....gerhardKILLspamspam.....pobox.com>
S‹o Paulo - Brazil

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