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PICList Thread
'Undeliverable idiot'
1999\01\04@095021 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Old morons never die - they also don't unsubscribe.

I have asked this guy plenty times to unsubscribe,
but he is ignoring all mail.

I have just tried to fool the server - maybe we are
lucky, and this idiot will go away like a bad smell...

Feel free to email him, or his wife :

Gary Speas: spam_OUTgspeasTakeThisOuTspamspeastech.com
Rita Speas: .....rspeasKILLspamspam@spam@speastech.com

They should have called their company "Spastic", not
"Spastech". If their producrts are anything like
their net manners, they're doomed...
 
--
Friendly Regards          /"\
                         \ /
Tjaart van der Walt        X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
tjaartspamKILLspamwasp.co.za  / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL

|--------------------------------------------------|
|                WASP International                |
|R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development|
|--------------------------------------------------|
|SMS .....tjaartKILLspamspam.....sms.wasp.co.za  (160 chars max)|
|     http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html     |
|Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686  Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973|
|          WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E          |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\01\04@180341 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
I asked Jory to kill 'em, folks.  (Thought he already had killed off
this one;  Maybe it's someone who re-subscribed?!)

 Mark

Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
{Quote hidden}


'HELP! - I'm an idiot UNSUBSCRIBE [OT]'
1999\03\04@001408 by Tjaart van der Walt
flavicon
face
Mark Willis wrote:
>
> I'm thinking I should change in the Mini-Faq from:
>
> > Send a message to RemoveMELISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (DO NOT SEND TO
> > spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)
> >
> > with the following text in the BODY of the message (not the TITLE):
> >
> > SIGNOFF PICLIST
>

>   I've seen a web page that another mailing list I'm on uses to
> subscribe and unsubscribe people to/from that list, that's a possibility
> here, something we could link into the FAQ perhaps (I'll have to read up
> here, won't I?)
>
>   Mark

I would gladly post such a FAQ, and (un)subscribing
form on my web page.

--
Friendly Regards          /"\
                         \ /
Tjaart van der Walt        X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
TakeThisOuTtjaartEraseMEspamspam_OUTwasp.co.za  / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
|--------------------------------------------------|
|                WASP International                |
|R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development|
|--------------------------------------------------|
| Mobile : RemoveMEtjaartspamTakeThisOuTsms.wasp.co.za  (160 text chars) |
|     http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html     |
|Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686  Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973|
|          WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E          |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\03\04@061432 by Alan Nickerson

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face
There are SUBSCRIBE  and UNSUBSCRIBE instructions on the PICList Web Archive
page at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/about.html

Alan

{Original Message removed}

1999\03\04@094929 by Dave Evans

flavicon
face
I feel that a lot of the improperly addressed
unsubscribe messages are not from people
who entered the wrong address.

They merely clicked on "reply" in a
message that they had received from
the list.

Perhaps a specific warning that this
won't work would be appropriate, along
with the other messages that have
been suggested.



Dave
dave.evansEraseMEspam.....dlcc.com

> {Original Message removed}

1999\03\04@150634 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
At 06:13 03/04/99 -0500, Alan Nickerson wrote:
>There are SUBSCRIBE  and UNSUBSCRIBE instructions on the PICList Web Archive
>page at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/about.html

this -- or any other faq -- doesn't or wouldn't help much if the link to
the faq is not appended to each message sent to the list, i guess.

ge

1999\03\04@215547 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
(I still haven't resubscribed as "EraseMEbobspamdrzyzgula.org", sorry)

Dave raises a good point. I must say that I have often
been frustrated by the fact that the PICLIST inserts a
Reply-To: that directs all responses only to the list.
This makes it somewhat more difficult to reply to only
the sender of a message, for example.

Perhaps if the default reply-to was something else, there
would be less nonsense on the list. Here's one suggestion:
Change the logic in the list server such that, for this
message, had I gotten around to changing my subscription
:-) Reply-To: would get set to:

 Reply-To: PICLIST at MITVMA.MIT.EDU comma bob at drzyzgula.org <piclist-faq@mi
tvma.mit.edu>

Where piclist-faq would simply echo back to the sender a
message explaining various things like how to unsubscribe,
how to edit the To: line to do what you probably wanted,
etc. Then, regular posters would know what to do, it would
become more clear when you were posting to the list and
when you were sending a private response, and bozos would
simply get their stuff thrown back at them along with a
small bit of polite clue assistance.

Just an idea.

--Bob
RemoveMEbobEraseMEspamEraseMEdrzyzgula.org

On Thu, Mar 04, 1999 at 06:46:43AM -0800, Dave Evans wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
RemoveMEbobTakeThisOuTspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================


'Complete idiot'
1999\12\22@194450 by King, Jonathan
flavicon
face
That would be me.
I was in such a hurry to get out of the office for Christmas that I sent the
set digest command to the entire list instead of the list server.
You have my profuse apologies.
I know I just wasted more bandwidth, but I don't want you to think I
normally leave my brain at home.
Merry Christmas!

Sorry,
Jonathan


'[OT]: Please delete those "Dear Brother" idiots'
2000\10\17@173005 by Bob Blick
face
flavicon
face
The ones who keep "replying to all" and filling my mailbox!

No, don't delete them from the Piclist. Just delete them from any form of
email, period!

-Bob

--
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use EraseMElistservspamspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu?body=SET%20PICList%20DIGEST




2000\10\17@183416 by jamesnewton

face picon face
I don't understand what this is in reference to, but could we please not
refer to people as idiots on this list? Thank you.

FIRST WARNING.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
RemoveMEjamesnewtonKILLspamspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\10\18@221555 by dre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
>The ones who keep "replying to all" and filling my mailbox!
>No, don't delete them from the Piclist. Just delete them from any form of
>email, period!

       Damm simple: Just clear the "reply to" of your mail program. It uses to work...


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       xandinhoSTOPspamspamspam_OUTinterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

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'[OT]: Idiots, and the PicList'
2004\02\16@103147 by David VanHorn
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face
At 07:43 PM 2/15/2004 -0800, James Newton, Host wrote:

>Olin has been deleted from the PICList.
>No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot.

I somehow missed this till today, and while Olin was a bit abrasive, I'd have to agree, this was pretty much an Idiotic query.

"Here's my raw machine code, can you find out what's wrong?"


Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

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2004\02\16@103147 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 07:43 PM 2/15/2004 -0800, James Newton, Host wrote:

>Olin has been deleted from the PICList.
>No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot.

I somehow missed this till today, and while Olin was a bit abrasive, I'd have to agree, this was pretty much an Idiotic query.

"Here's my raw machine code, can you find out what's wrong?"


Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

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2004\02\16@113456 by Sergio Masci

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: David VanHorn <KILLspamdvanhornspamBeGonespamCEDAR.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:25 PM
Subject: [OT]: Idiots, and the PicList


> At 07:43 PM 2/15/2004 -0800, James Newton, Host wrote:
>
> >Olin has been deleted from the PICList.
> >No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot.
>
> I somehow missed this till today, and while Olin was a bit abrasive, I'd have
to agree, this was pretty much an Idiotic query.
>
> "Here's my raw machine code, can you find out what's wrong?"
>
>
> Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

When I read the original posting I thought "god, not another one". Unlike
Russell I did not see it as a post from an "expert in other field" I saw it as a
post from a very enthusiastic newbee maybe a kid. I have delt with people who
cannot get on with some software tools, who laughingly say they will write their
own. It is difficult to impart the same meening in an email. I actually get some
private emails from people who fall into the enthusiastic kid catagory.
Sometimes they have missed a really small but important fact or installed a tool
incorrectly. They are new to embedded work and they don't know what is missing
or how the tool should behave. When I first looked at the PIC I did not notice
FSR and INDF. What I did notice was the lack of an indexed addressing mode. When
I get a request for help from someone and I see spagetti code which could
easilly be replaced by a simple array, no reference to FSR or INDF anywhere, I
show that person how to use FSR and they seem to shift into warp drive.

I normally regard Olin as a great "stupid question filter" and have supported
his views in the past but when I read Olin's response to the "insuccesses" post
I was outraged. If I'd had the time I would have responded very negatively to
his post. The OP was using machine code instead of assembly code and Olin was
berating him for it. It would be like me berating Olin for using assembler
instead of C (is there anyone on this list that doesn't know that Olin keeps on
about using assemblers instead of compilers).

Yes the original posting seems really stupid but we know so little about the OP
or the real reason for his use of machine code that we should have found out
more before branding him an "idiot". We ALL find it hard to understand a data
sheet or software tool's docs at times. Imagin how much harder it must be for
someone who uses English as a second language. The OP may not even have know
that he could read the hex out of a PIC and disassemble it. We don't even know
if he was transfering the hex into the programmer by hand from and assembly
listing or from the back of an envelope. How many of us would have continued
with PICs if after asking what may have been a very simple question we were
ridiculed in front of thousands of others.

Your "strike" is only hurting James, someone who doesn't deserve it.

Regardless of what you might think it's not just the list that benefits from
Olin, Olin actually gains a lot from being a member of the PICLIST. Above all
else he gets valuable exposure. I wonder how much work he's had as a direct
consequence of being on the list.

If Olin wants "back in" I'm sure James would be only to happy to let him
provided he promised to show a bit more self control.

Think about this: if I had been ridiculed to the same extent when I first joined
the PICLIST would I have bothered to produce ANY tools for the PIC or would I
have looked for a friendlier MCU.

Regards
Sergio Masci

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising structured PIC BASIC compiler.

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2004\02\16@113456 by Sergio Masci

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: David VanHorn <@spam@dvanhorn@spam@spamspam_OUTCEDAR.NET>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:25 PM
Subject: [OT]: Idiots, and the PicList


> At 07:43 PM 2/15/2004 -0800, James Newton, Host wrote:
>
> >Olin has been deleted from the PICList.
> >No amount of excellent advice is worth being called an idiot.
>
> I somehow missed this till today, and while Olin was a bit abrasive, I'd have
to agree, this was pretty much an Idiotic query.
>
> "Here's my raw machine code, can you find out what's wrong?"
>
>
> Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

When I read the original posting I thought "god, not another one". Unlike
Russell I did not see it as a post from an "expert in other field" I saw it as a
post from a very enthusiastic newbee maybe a kid. I have delt with people who
cannot get on with some software tools, who laughingly say they will write their
own. It is difficult to impart the same meening in an email. I actually get some
private emails from people who fall into the enthusiastic kid catagory.
Sometimes they have missed a really small but important fact or installed a tool
incorrectly. They are new to embedded work and they don't know what is missing
or how the tool should behave. When I first looked at the PIC I did not notice
FSR and INDF. What I did notice was the lack of an indexed addressing mode. When
I get a request for help from someone and I see spagetti code which could
easilly be replaced by a simple array, no reference to FSR or INDF anywhere, I
show that person how to use FSR and they seem to shift into warp drive.

I normally regard Olin as a great "stupid question filter" and have supported
his views in the past but when I read Olin's response to the "insuccesses" post
I was outraged. If I'd had the time I would have responded very negatively to
his post. The OP was using machine code instead of assembly code and Olin was
berating him for it. It would be like me berating Olin for using assembler
instead of C (is there anyone on this list that doesn't know that Olin keeps on
about using assemblers instead of compilers).

Yes the original posting seems really stupid but we know so little about the OP
or the real reason for his use of machine code that we should have found out
more before branding him an "idiot". We ALL find it hard to understand a data
sheet or software tool's docs at times. Imagin how much harder it must be for
someone who uses English as a second language. The OP may not even have know
that he could read the hex out of a PIC and disassemble it. We don't even know
if he was transfering the hex into the programmer by hand from and assembly
listing or from the back of an envelope. How many of us would have continued
with PICs if after asking what may have been a very simple question we were
ridiculed in front of thousands of others.

Your "strike" is only hurting James, someone who doesn't deserve it.

Regardless of what you might think it's not just the list that benefits from
Olin, Olin actually gains a lot from being a member of the PICLIST. Above all
else he gets valuable exposure. I wonder how much work he's had as a direct
consequence of being on the list.

If Olin wants "back in" I'm sure James would be only to happy to let him
provided he promised to show a bit more self control.

Think about this: if I had been ridiculed to the same extent when I first joined
the PICLIST would I have bothered to produce ANY tools for the PIC or would I
have looked for a friendlier MCU.

Regards
Sergio Masci

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising structured PIC BASIC compiler.

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2004\02\16@195830 by SM Ling

picon face
> Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

Interesting.  We shall see if the SNR goes up or down without Olin actively
suppressing it, and sometime with too excessive force.

Cheers, Ling SM

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2004\02\16@195830 by SM Ling

picon face
> Put me down as "on strike" till Olin returns.

Interesting.  We shall see if the SNR goes up or down without Olin actively
suppressing it, and sometime with too excessive force.

Cheers, Ling SM

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'[OT] Beware IDIOT!! assemblers of PC power connect'
2004\11\29@025936 by Robert Rolf
picon face
I just put together a new PC with a brand new high end
motherboard and 16X DVD-DL writer. The person who assembled
the power cables reversed the 12V and 5V pins on one of them,
so naturally the drive is now fried (magic smoke is gone),
as is the m/b since the 12V went back down the ATA cable and
smoked the highly integrated interface chip.

What really burns is that this is the exact SAME stupidity
that happened to me 10 years ago and that one blew up a $650
SCSI hard drive. Naturally the dealer who sold me the high end
case refused to do anything about their 'unfit' product since
'we didn't make it'. As a result of their poor response
I took over $10k in ongoing corporate business elsewhere.

**** Please learn from my $300+ stupidity. ****
ALWAYS CHECK that EVERY!!! power cable is wired correctly
before applying power. A voltmeter check is probably also a
good idea since it wouldn't surprise me that the meager
wage Taiwan assemblers would mess up the colors at the
power supply too.

I posted this rant to a local users group list, and
have had enough people reply that they have also
had this happen to THEM that I thought I'd warn
a larger audience of this 'unmentioned' problem.
It doesn't seem to matter whether it is low end or high
end power supplies, assemblers ARE making mistakes and
the Q/C people are NOT catching the errors.

Is this a common problem out there, or have I and the
local computer people just had a lot of bad luck?

Robert
Steaming mad at the idiot assembler and myself
for getting burned yet AGAIN! Complacency is COSTLY.


____________________________________________

2004\11\29@033516 by Jinx

face picon face
> SCSI hard drive. Naturally the dealer who sold me the high end
> case refused to do anything about their 'unfit' product since
> 'we didn't make it'

I thought consumer law meant that the dealer is the person who
fixes the customer. The dealer then has to seek restitution from
the supplier and so on. That's how I'm sure it is in NZ. If I had
an incorrectly wired PSU it wouldn't make nearly as much noise
smoke and sparks as I would at the dealer's counter if he tried
to fob me off. It would surely be in his best interest to check for
other faulty units ?

Commiserations on your PC BTW, that sucks

____________________________________________

2004\11\29@043619 by hid Sheikh

flavicon
face
Sorry to hear of you misfortune. Stuff like this has happened to me
enough times that I don't mess around with trying to build my own pcs
anymore. In the end the frustration just isn't worth it.

With how low the retail manufacturers are selling pcs for its almost not
worth trying to build your own pc unless you want a highly customized
one. Take the Dell Poweredge SC400 for instance. Last year Dell had a
deal on them for $300 ea, free shipping within the US, free upgrade to a
P4 2.8GHz, 40GB HD, 128MB RAM, no OS. Made for a perfect reliable Linux
desktop machine with a bit of additional memory from pricewatch.

I think their latest similar product is the SC420. Makes for a good
desktop.

Have no association with Dell (in fact they are not even my first choice
in PCs) but their prices almost can't be beat. Plus you get that no
hassle warranty.

Shahid

{Original Message removed}

2004\11\29@093938 by Cnc002

picon face
In a message dated 11/29/2004 3:00:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
.....Robert.Rolfspam_OUTspamualberta.ca writes:
I just put together a new PC with a brand new high end
motherboard and 16X DVD-DL writer. The person who assembled
the power cables reversed the 12V and 5V pins on one of them,
so naturally the drive is now fried (magic smoke is gone),
as is the m/b since the 12V went back down the ATA cable and
smoked the highly integrated interface chip.

What really burns is that this is the exact SAME stupidity
that happened to me 10 years ago and that one blew up a $650
SCSI hard drive. Naturally the dealer who sold me the high end
case refused to do anything about their 'unfit' product since
'we didn't make it'. As a result of their poor response
I took over $10k in ongoing corporate business elsewhere.

**** Please learn from my $300+ stupidity. ****
ALWAYS CHECK that EVERY!!! power cable is wired correctly
before applying power. A voltmeter check is probably also a
good idea since it wouldn't surprise me that the meager
wage Taiwan assemblers would mess up the colors at the
power supply too.

I posted this rant to a local users group list, and
have had enough people reply that they have also
had this happen to THEM that I thought I'd warn
a larger audience of this 'unmentioned' problem.
It doesn't seem to matter whether it is low end or high
end power supplies, assemblers ARE making mistakes and
the Q/C people are NOT catching the errors.

Is this a common problem out there, or have I and the
local computer people just had a lot of bad luck?

Robert
Steaming mad at the idiot assembler and myself
for getting burned yet AGAIN! Complacency is COSTLY.
First of all, in many cases the "high end" components such as power supplies
are often manufactured on the exact same assembly lines and at the same time
as the "low end" units.  Therefore you have the same very very low wage people
doing the assembly.  In fact, you will often find the very same components in
both high end and low end units.  I know this from having dis-assembled a
number of both and found the exact same parts in many of them.  I have had the
same thing with a few power supplies but I ALWAYS use a volt meter to check the
pin outs just in case.  This is a "quirk" of being a design engineer and the
technician that also installs the industrial equipment I service and also that
which I design and build.

However, I would probably have caused some sparks at that dealer when he/she
refused to make that good.  I use TigerDirect a lot and, so far, in every case
they have made things right when there was a problem.  

I also agree that unless you need a custom PC (unfortunately for machine
control most of mine are custom) Dell is probably the best overall way to go.  
They are my first choice for off the shelf computers and you can't hardly beat
their prices or their service.

Randy Abernathy
4626 Old Stilesboro Road
Acworth, GA 30101
Ph / Fax: 770-974-5295
E-mail: TakeThisOuTcnc002.....spamTakeThisOuTaol.com

I furnish technical support, repair, and other related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as Senior Service Engineer for the
SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory training, combines with my
extensive background in electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, electrical and CNC
machinery to offer you needed support for your machinery.
____________________________________________

2004\11\29@134726 by Peter L. Peres

picon face


On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Robert Rolf wrote:

> It doesn't seem to matter whether it is low end or high
> end power supplies, assemblers ARE making mistakes and
> the Q/C people are NOT catching the errors.

Were the wire colors right or were thwy swapped ?

Peter
____________________________________________

2004\11\29@141538 by steve

flavicon
face
> I thought consumer law meant that the dealer is the person who
> fixes the customer. The dealer then has to seek restitution from
> the supplier and so on. That's how I'm sure it is in NZ.

I'll find out tomorrow.
I had a noisy fan in my PC and bought a new fancy PSU to get a quiet
fan. I installed it and the PC stopped working. By swapping parts with
another computer, I found that the motherboard, CPU, RAM & video
card were all dead. Hmmm. I must have bumped something, or trapped
a screw under the motherboard, I thought. (I also thought @#$%&).
So I go and buy replacements, put it all together with the old PSU and
we're back in business. Except the fan is noisy. No problem, in goes the
new PSU, turn it on and smoke billows off the motherboard.
Initially the shop were going to replace the parts that blew up the second
time, but then changed their mind and offered just another PSU.
So far, getting a quieter fan has cost me $1200 and a couple of days of
work. We go to court tomorrow.

Steve.



____________________________________________

2004\11\29@144430 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face
That's it.  I'm buying a Dell.


-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Who used to build his computers from scratch


> {Original Message removed}

2004\11\29@144828 by Robert Rolf

picon face
If the new PSU caused so much damage the first time,
why would you connect it AGAIN before checking that
it's outputs were wired/operating correctly?
This is something the opposing lawyer is going to ask you,
since you have a duty to mitigate your losses.

I have also had a M/B fail because the ATX power connector pins
got so hot they melted and the connector charred.
Turns out that the PSU side had cold solder joints so only
2 pins of 4 were carrying the 40A load. I now coat all
ATX connectors with "Nu-Trol" contact cleaner (M.G. Chemicals)
and haven't had a problem. It would behove others to check their
m/b connectors. If they're hot, you have an impending problem.
Mine were up to 70C before I coated them.

And wouldn't a drop of oil on the fan bushing have
been a LOT cheaper?

Robert
P.S. Thanks for cheering me up <G>. I am not alone...
Humm. This could lead to a new thread on 'most expensive
stupid mistake' <not counting the space program>.

TakeThisOuTsteveKILLspamspamspamtla.co.nz wrote:

{Quote hidden}

____________________________________________

2004\11\29@150853 by Harold Hallikainen

face picon face
I wonder if this qualifies as "incidental damage?" Most warranties say the
supplier will replace a defective device, but will not replace your house
when the defective device burns it down.

Back when I got my first 286 computer, it came with a defective power
cord. The hot and safety ground were reversed. I plugged it in and got a
loud humming sound and smoke coming out of the monitor (which had its own
correctly wired power cord). The insulation on the ground lead inside the
monitor was melted a bit, but otherwise everything worked fine once I
replaced the defective power cord.

Finally, back in the days of fake datasheets (the Write Only Memory,
etc.), we made a datasheet for the 3AG-NB (no blow) fuse. The datasheet
included a testimonial from a fire chief who said the building burned
down, but the fuse was still good!

Harold



> That's it.  I'm buying a Dell.
>
>
> -- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
> Who used to build his computers from scratch
>
>
>> {Original Message removed}

2004\11\29@162903 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Having just spend over a month trying to get Dell to repair a desktop
machine at work, I don't thing that is a sure decision.

Quick overview: Keyboard stops working, new keyboard has no effect, call
support, they send a guy with new MB (fine so far) He puts in the new MB and
the machine won't boot. I called out the replacement MB, but the tech said
the problem was damaged files on the HD and we would have to reload the OS.
I called Dell and complained, but they refused to do anything other than
walk me through loading the OS. Shrug. Tried to format HD, failed, they
called out defective HD and sent a replacement. Then another. Then another.
Then FINALLY admitted the replacement motherboard had been defective all
along and sent out a replacement with another tech. NOW the machine will
format the HD but by this point they are willing to send a pre-loaded HD.
Which comes a few days later, and is blank. I gave up and reloaded the OS.
Total elapsed time: 1 month 2 days. Total time on phone, etc: 8 hours, 23
min.

I'll give you the case numbers if you like. Of the 4 dells we have
purchased, only one has not suffered some sort of failure. One overheats,
one has a dead floppy drive (DOA), one as mentioned above, and one still
working. Knock on wood. Of the 5 Gateways we purchased, two had video cards
that eventually failed. Not one home built machine has ever failed.

Buying a pre-built machine just ensures that you will have to learn how it
comes apart later on. Might as well build them yourself.

If you don't have the time, it's better to have someone you trust build it
for you. M. Adam Davis
http://www.ubasics.com built my last two servers for me and did an excellent
job. I have more features for less cost and NO problems.

---
James.



{Quote hidden}

____________________________________________

2004\11\29@172853 by steve

flavicon
face
On 29 Nov 2004 at 12:48, Robert Rolf wrote:

> If the new PSU caused so much damage the first time,
> why would you connect it AGAIN before checking that
> it's outputs were wired/operating correctly?

That's a good question.
I had no reason to suspect that the power supply was faulty. It was
brand new, top of the range and covered in QC stickers. The first time it
simply stopped working. My assumption was that I must have done
something wrong (like a dropped screw, shorted on the case, etc). It
wasn't until I put the power supply in the second time, that the cause of
the problems were clear.

> This is something the opposing lawyer is going to ask you,
> since you have a duty to mitigate your losses.

This is a lawyer-free small claims court. Since I described what had
happened and the shopkeeper then went on to connect it to a new
motherboard and killed that, I guess he should have known better too.

I have no idea how we'll go with the claim. I know what I consider to be
right and wrong and what I would do in those circumstances.

Alternatively, it's coming up to Christmas and I could just borrow a
saxophone and a Santa suit and busk outside his store a few times.
Playing a sax can't be that hard can it ?  :-)

Steve.


____________________________________________

2004\11\29@173244 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 12:48 -0700, Robert Rolf wrote:
> And wouldn't a drop of oil on the fan bushing have
> been a LOT cheaper?

Yes, cheaper, but useless. If the fan is making noise the bearing is
gone. Adding oil will work for a day, maybe two, then the noise will be
back.

There is no choice, once a PS fan starts making noise the fan needs to
be replaced. Whether that means replacing the fan or the whole supply is
up to you.

Letting the supply run in that condition will only result in the fan
eventually failing, usually resulting in the PSU self destructing, which
usually ends up killing some components in your computer as well. TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\11\29@175509 by Robert Rolf

picon face
steve@tla.co.nz wrote:
>
> Alternatively, it's coming up to Christmas and I could just borrow a
> saxophone and a Santa suit and busk outside his store a few times.
> Playing a sax can't be that hard can it ?  :-)

Bagpipes aren't that much harder to play, and FAR louder.

R
____________________________________________

2004\11\29@180830 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face
I had the same kind of experience with a Hewlett Packard PC.  The suckers sold me an on-site maintenance guarantee (Nya Nya NYA!).  I am 130 miles from the nearest on-site maintenance tech, so he had to make several trips to replace a hard drive, hard drive cable and a CD rom drive (twice!)  

Whenever I have built a PC, I have usually had two weekends of hair pulling, cursing, teeth gnashing and randomly punching out hapless passersby before the *&^$%# thing started working correctly.  

Lets see, I bought a computer off the shelf at Sam's club, it was DOA.

I can truthfully say I have never had a PC that didn't cause trouble at some point early in it's career, homebuilt or factorybuilt. I have never tried a custom built computer, maybe that is the solution!


-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

2004\11\29@181006 by Lawrence Lile

flavicon
face

> Alternatively, it's coming up to Christmas and I could just borrow a
> saxophone and a Santa suit and busk outside his store a few times.
> Playing a sax can't be that hard can it ?  :-)
>

No, but it will cost him at least $1200 in lost business which might be worth it.  Bring along a hound dog to howl while you play.  


> Steve.
>
>
> ______________________________________________

2004\11\29@185105 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
generally when I custom build a PC I assume there will be
roughly 2 mistakes made with it. Typically this is something
like IDE cables swapped around and messing up partitioning of
the hard drive first time round.

setting up a personal PC takes about a day about half of which is taken up
with patching.
a PC for a friend, about half a day (less stuff installed, less patching)

had my first problem with insufficient power lately
went through 3 400W supplies before I got an Antec True Power 550W
for a while I was running 2 PSU's, ATX running the mbo and SCSI HDD and
an old AT supply running all the other drives.
I had originally ordered the PC with a large PSU but none of my regular
suppliers
could get it in stock, eventually I went to another store and they got it
in, in 2 days
(along with a DVD burner).

current system is a Dual Xeon 3.06Ghz 2x80GbIDE 1x36GB 15Krpm Seagate
cheetah (SCSI), Raedeon 9600pro.


problem I typically have with dells is they make me look like a damn fool
if ever I'm called on to repair/upgrade one.
with all their catches and levers and dohickies removing a hard drive is a
puzzle nigh on insurmountable at times. I have once pulled 15 screws out of
one of them only to find out that
there's this little catch behind the drive you lift and twist and the whole
thing pops out.

Also beware of the old dell/all-in-wonder PC tricks
Top of the line CPU, crap everything else.
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
with an integrated video card sharing system memory
128 mb of ram for it to share
a quantum bigfoot hard drive (cheaper to make but MUCH slower)
bugger all USB, no firewire, slowass chipset

net result, your better off buying a P4 2Ghz for the same price
and it will run at 4x the speed of the dell.



> {Original Message removed}

2004\11\29@204127 by Matthew Fries

flavicon
face
I used to build clone PC's professionally (about 8+ years ago), and I
remember the molex connector problem happening to me once. Problem is that
the power supply QA team probably just looks for CORRECT voltages. They know
that the voltage between the yellow wire and the black one should be 12V.
They didn't notics that the yellow wire was on the wrong side of the connector.

Also, I know what you mean about the Dells. We have a couple hundred of them
at the office. For a corporate environment, It's OK that they have a slow
chipset, crummy integrated video, and shared video memory. Our employees are
supposed to be using Office software, not playing Doom 3. I just wish they
would use better Hard Disks. We have Dells and Gateways, and it seems that
both of those manufacturers LOVE to use Quantum Hard disks. I would gladly
pay the $30 more per machine if they were WD hard drives.

For a home environment Personal Computer, Stay away from the prebuilt
machines you find in a store like Best Buy, and visit your local clone
computer shop. You can get the performance you want, in the case you want,
without being limited by custom motherboards. You can also talk to the
technician who would assemble it, and I'm sure he would have valuable
insight on compatibility and performance.



At 10:51 AM 11/30/2004 +1100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> {Original Message removed}

2004\11\30@041317 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>That's it.  I'm buying a Dell.

I must admit I have been very pleased with the Dell units I have.
____________________________________________

2004\11\30@042007 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> Alternatively, it's coming up to Christmas and I
>> could just borrow a saxophone and a Santa suit and
>> busk outside his store a few times.
>> Playing a sax can't be that hard can it ?  :-)
>
>Bagpipes aren't that much harder to play, and FAR louder.

Heh heh. Maybe you could get the guy that used to playa  guitar in K-road,
Auckland. he would be strumming away with one hand, and the other hand that
normally worked the finger board would be doing almost anything else from
rubbing his nose to waving at people he knew going past. :))

____________________________________________

2004\11\30@065812 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Jake Anderson wrote:

> problem I typically have with dells is they make me look like a damn fool
> if ever I'm called on to repair/upgrade one. with all their catches and
> levers and dohickies removing a hard drive is a puzzle nigh on
> insurmountable at times. I have once pulled 15 screws out of one of them
> only to find out that there's this little catch behind the drive you
> lift and twist and the whole thing pops out.

May not help a technician that's called to a customer's site, but I always
found decent (dis)assemble instructions for my Dell notebooks on their site
for anything I could want to take apart.

Gerhard
____________________________________________

2004\11\30@070649 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Lawrence Lile wrote:

> I can truthfully say I have never had a PC that didn't cause trouble at
> some point early in it's career, homebuilt or factorybuilt. I have never
> tried a custom built computer, maybe that is the solution!

I didn't have that many PCs, but I have one that's still a nice system that
I bought over 7 years ago, custom built to my specs by a local computer
builder (in San Diego, at the time). Asus mobo, Matrox graphics, WD
harddisk (well, the disks have been upgraded a few times over the years :),
never gave me any problem at all; not early on, and not now.

And I'm happy with my Dell notebooks, too (two in a row, Inspiron 7500 and
then 8200). The 8200 is my second one; the first one got exchanged
completely because of a mysterious defect that didn't go away even after
exchanging the mobo and the screen. They are a pain on the phone, going
through the required steps until you get down to the problem, but I guess
that's necessary with mass products. This may (or may not :) be easier with
a local shop.

Gerhard
____________________________________________

2004\11\30@075950 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> I can truthfully say I have never had a PC that didn't cause trouble at
>> some point early in it's career, homebuilt or factorybuilt.

FWIW: In a prior corporate lifetime I've seen HP, Toshiba and Compaq all go
belly up within days or weeks of supply. One Toshiba on its day :-). HP hard
disk within weeks.


       RM

____________________________________________

2004\11\30@162004 by kimble

flavicon
face
Lawrence Lile wrote:
> That's it.  I'm buying a Dell.

Oh, Dell use non-standard motherboard-frying ATX connector pinouts.
Great fun, that.


kim.
____________________________________________

2004\11\30@170209 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 21:20 +0000, kimble wrote:
> Lawrence Lile wrote:
> > That's it.  I'm buying a Dell.
>
> Oh, Dell use non-standard motherboard-frying ATX connector pinouts.
> Great fun, that.

Are you sure about that? All Dell's I've opened lately have had standard
ATX connectors and pinouts. TTYL


-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

____________________________________________

2004\11\30@184617 by Dave Lag

picon face
Well, IIRC the Dell connectors were alway standard-ish
Would like to see someone meter one to confirm they've changed to normal
wiring.
D

Herbert Graf wrote:
{Quote hidden}

____________________________________________

2004\11\30@191018 by kimble

flavicon
face
Herbert Graf wrote:

>>Oh, Dell use non-standard motherboard-frying ATX connector pinouts.
>>Great fun, that.
>
> Are you sure about that? All Dell's I've opened lately have had standard
> ATX connectors and pinouts. TTYL

All the Dell parts I have to hand are over 3 years old, and are using
the standard connectors with a proprietary pinout and colour-code.  A
quick google suggests that they've switched to the standard pinout for
at least some of their newer models, so it sounds like they've seen
sense on the matter...

Still, something to be wary of, especially as it's likely to be older
machines needing a replacement PSU (I've always found Dell parts to be
very reliable).


kim.
____________________________________________

2004\11\30@235616 by Cnc002

picon face
In a message dated 11/30/04 7:14:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spamBeGonekim@spam@spamspam_OUTductilebiscuit.net writes:

> All the Dell parts I have to hand are over 3 years old, and are using
> the standard connectors with a proprietary pinout and colour-code.  A
> quick google suggests that they've switched to the standard pinout for
> at least some of their newer models, so it sounds like they've seen
> sense on the matter...
>
> Still, something to be wary of, especially as it's likely to be older
> machines needing a replacement PSU (I've always found Dell parts to be
> very reliable).
>
>
> kim.
>

The Dell my wife has is about 3 years old and is a Dimension 4500 with a P4
in it.  I had to put a Network Card in it when I networked our house and
everything I saw in it was standard, or appeared to be.  Maybe they have decided to
go with industry standards.

Randy Abernathy

4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101
Ph / Fax: 770-974-5295
E-mail: TakeThisOuTcnc002spamspamaol.com

I furnish technical support, repair, and other related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as Senior Service Engineer for the
SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory training, combines with my
extensive background in electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, electrical and CNC
machinery to offer you needed support for your machinery.

____________________________________________


'[OT] Beware IDIOT!! assemblers of PC power connect'
2004\12\01@000606 by Cnc002
picon face
In a message dated 11/29/04 6:52:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grooveeeEraseMEspamoptushome.com.au writes:

> Also beware of the old dell/all-in-wonder PC tricks
> Top of the line CPU, crap everything else.
> Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
> with an integrated video card sharing system memory
> 128 mb of ram for it to share
> a quantum bigfoot hard drive (cheaper to make but MUCH slower)
> bugger all USB, no firewire, slowass chipset
>
> net result, your better off buying a P4 2Ghz for the same price
> and it will run at 4x the speed of the dell.
>

Which Dell units were set up like this?  The one we have at home and all of
the ones in the offices of the attorneys where I have helped to set up are NOT
like that.  They have separate video cards, USB yes but about all I use that
for is sometimes a mouse or downloading from a digital camera,etc., we use
networking for most all other applications such as printers, copier
interconnectivity, scanners, etc.

I actually do build most of the PCs I use in my business but when it comes to
offices I have found Dell to work just fine, even for servers.

Just my experience with them.

Randy Abernathy

4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101
Ph / Fax: 770-974-5295
E-mail: RemoveMEcnc002EraseMEspamspam_OUTaol.com

I furnish technical support, repair, and other related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as Senior Service Engineer for the
SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory training, combines with my
extensive background in electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, electrical and CNC
machinery to offer you needed support for your machinery.

____________________________________________

2004\12\01@001216 by Cnc002

picon face
In a message dated 11/29/04 6:09:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
@spam@llileRemoveMEspamEraseMEprojsolco.com writes:

> had the same kind of experience with a Hewlett Packard PC.  The suckers
> sold me an on-site maintenance guarantee (Nya Nya NYA!).  I am 130 miles from
> the nearest on-site maintenance tech, so he had to make several trips to
> replace a hard drive, hard drive cable and a CD rom drive (twice!)  
>
> Whenever I have built a PC, I have usually had two weekends of hair pulling,
> cursing, teeth gnashing and randomly punching out hapless passersby before
> the *&^$%# thing started working correctly.  
>
> Lets see, I bought a computer off the shelf at Sam's club, it was DOA.
>
> I can truthfully say I have never had a PC that didn't cause trouble at some
> point early in it's career, homebuilt or factorybuilt. I have never tried a
> custom built computer, maybe that is the solution!
>

I have never had any good luck with an HP or Compaq since HP bought them.  As
I said before I build quite a few PCs for use in industrial machine controls
and it usually takes me about 4 hours to assemble them, then about 4 more to
get the operating system and software in them.  However, I have not had much
trouble at all with them.  I usually use Intel Mainboards with Intel chipsets
and Pentium 4 processors.   On occasion I use AMD processors and am actually
starting to lean more toward them than Intel as the last 2 systems I did were AMD
and they seem to run faster and cooler at a given clock rate and front side
bus speed.  Not to mention they are usually cheaper.

Well anyway, that is just my experience.  Of course, I build quite a few of
these as many of the machines I service or upgrade will take from 2 to 5 PCs to
run them.

Randy Abernathy

4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101
Ph / Fax: 770-974-5295
E-mail: EraseMEcnc002spam@spam@aol.com

I furnish technical support, repair, and other related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as Senior Service Engineer for the
SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory training, combines with my
extensive background in electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, electrical and CNC
machinery to offer you needed support for your machinery.

____________________________________________

2004\12\03@024509 by Peter L. Peres

picon face


On Wed, 1 Dec 2004, Russell McMahon wrote:

>>> I can truthfully say I have never had a PC that didn't cause trouble at
>>> some point early in it's career, homebuilt or factorybuilt.
>
> FWIW: In a prior corporate lifetime I've seen HP, Toshiba and Compaq all go
> belly up within days or weeks of supply. One Toshiba on its day :-). HP hard
> disk within weeks.

Because of the bathtub curve and zero burn-in it is very likely that bulk
purchasers see a lot of problems in the beginning.

Peter
____________________________________________

2004\12\03@185909 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Jinx,

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:34:29 +1300, Jinx wrote:

> I thought consumer law meant that the dealer is the person who
> fixes the customer. The dealer then has to seek restitution from
> the supplier and so on. That's how I'm sure it is in NZ.

Indeed, and this is certainly the case in English law, because your contract is with the person you bought it
from - you have no business relationship with the manufacturer.

> If I had
> an incorrectly wired PSU it wouldn't make nearly as much noise
> smoke and sparks as I would at the dealer's counter if he tried
> to fob me off. It would surely be in his best interest to check for
> other faulty units ?

I always do a quick "sanity check" that the yellow wires are all on the "outside", furthest from the data
cable on all drives.  That's because I have managed to force one of those darned connectors into place
upside-down, despite the chamfered corners that ought to make it imossible!  It's also worth remembering that
the data and power cables have their red cables adjacent (pin 1 almost always being marked in red on a flat
cable).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


____________________________________________

2004\12\04@005723 by Morgan Olsson

flavicon
face
Howard Winter 00:59 2004-12-04:
>That's because I have managed to force one of those darned connectors

Speaking of force on the contacts,  I once had a PC that had some strange HD failure, and then i heard the rpm was not stable.
It turned out to be a crack in the solder of the 12V pin on the drive PCB...

BTW theese hard disk power cononnectors are sometimes very lousy, i have had problems with voltage drop also on Y-cable connections.

/Morgan


--
Morgan Olsson, Kivik, Sweden

____________________________________________

2004\12\04@021431 by Jinx

face picon face
sct.staghosting.com/

eg

http://sct.staghosting.com/sct027.html

____________________________________________


'complete idiot I sent the NDA to the wrong addres'
2006\04\19@214831 by Gus Salavatore Calabrese
face picon face
I apologize to the PIClist.
I thought  I was sending an e-mail off-list and I
was not.

Gus


'[SX] Problem with SX key debug - I am an idiot'
2007\02\03@104500 by geoffjn/a
flavicon
face
In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, geoffj wrote:

Looks like the problem I posted yesterday wasn't a problem. On my prototype pcb I positioned the decoupling capacitor for the SX48 on the underside of the pcb directly underneath the chip. The problem is, I forgot to fit it ! Now I have done, the problem has of course gone away.

---------- End of Message ----------

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2007\02\03@114720 by beann/a

flavicon
face
In SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool, bean wrote:

Geoff,
 You're not a idiot, we've all been there.
 Glad you got it working.

Bean.

---------- End of Message ----------

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'[EE]: Making batteries idiot-proof ... question'
2008\07\04@083001 by Cedric Chang
flavicon
face
>
> On Jul 3, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Cedric Chang wrote:
>
> For those of you who have restored dead NiCads or Lead Acid
> batteries, was it worth it ?
>
> For myself, it was not worth it other than to say I could do it.  The
> restored batteries never lasted long enough to be worth the trouble.
> cc

Thanks to everyone for their previous comments.  Are long life  
battery packs feasible technically and not supplied because there is  
not a perceived demand for them because they would cost more initially ?

I am wondering if one could build a battery pack ( and associated  
charger ) that makes sure each cell is working correctly and is  
supplied with the correct charge and discharge history and that each  
cell is automatically massaged to correct failures ?  Do such things  
already exist ?  Is the cost too high ?  And perhaps each battery  
pack would allow you to swap out "bad" cells.
Based on battery theory ( without regard to cost ) , what is the most  
reliable and idiot-proof battery technology ?  Is it Lion ?
( When I say idiot-proof , I mean that the user does not have to be  
careful about when and how they recharge the batteries. )

If a vendor built a NiCad battery pack and made each cell  
individually available to the charger , could the charger keep the  
batteries going a lot longer ?  Would the battery pack have to do  
things to protect the individual cells during use ?  Would the use of  
supercaps in some way benefit battery life ?

I have the same questions about Lead Acid batteries, NiMH, Lion, etc.

Are fuel cells theoretically a way around battery problems ?  Will  
they provide long life ? ( assuming the vendor builds them correctly ).

If a hydrogen fuel distribution magically appeared, would hydrogen  
fuel cells ( theoretically ) be long lasting and environmentally  
benign method of supplying portable power.  ( Assuming there was a  
magical way of producing the hydrogen , the method of which is left  
to the reader )

cc

cc
 

2008\07\04@091218 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face
Addressing the issue of handling each cell individually. There are
chargers out there for individual cells (AAA, AA,C,etc.) that connect
all the cells in parallel, and those that connect individually.
Definitely want the one that handles each cell by itself. I have a
MH-C401FS charger that is the individual type. I can put AAA and AA in
at any time, where the cells can be NICD or NMH , different  states of
charges, and different brand cells, and when done the green LED comes on
for that cell. But it costs around $50. An issue I'm having is it
detects a bad cell and blinks a red LED, but can't tell the problem with
the cell, still shows 1.3 volts, have tried slow discharge with 100 ohm
resister across terminals for a couple of days, and then trying to
charge, but same blinking LED.

I would think the same technology could be applied to a battery pack,
but numerous contact connectors would be required, costing $$, taking
space, and durability for a piece of construction equipment getting
banged around in dirt and rain likely would be an issue. :)

Cedric Chang wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\04@094613 by Jinx

face picon face
> I would think the same technology could be applied to a battery
> pack, but numerous contact connectors would be required, costing
> $$, taking space, and durability for a piece of construction equipment
> getting banged around in dirt and rain likely would be an issue. :)

Yeah, it's not a goer really is it. My brother's company just round up
all their dodgy packs and send them off to be reconditioned. Although
"reconditioned" is perhaps glorifying what actually happens

2008\07\04@110722 by John Coppens

flavicon
face
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:29:38 -0600
Cedric Chang <@spam@ccspam_OUTspam.....nope9.com> wrote:

> Are long life  
> battery packs feasible technically and not supplied because there is  
> not a perceived demand for them because they would cost more initially ?

I wonder if, at current replacement battery pack prices, the manufacturer
isn't doing what everyone else does - make a profit of the replacement
parts. As such, he (the manufacturer) wouldn't be interested in providing
a _real_ upgrade in battery life, would they?

Compare this, eg., with printers costing little more than the cartridges
they contain (and those being way to expensive). Probably one of the
earliest examples would be flashlights, which would be sold (or even
given away) by battery companies.

John

'[EE]: Making batteries idiot-proof ... questions'
2008\07\07@141923 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
NOTHING is idiot-proof, as idiots are cunning and very resourceful,
MUCH more so than design engineers..

But I have discovered that building a 12V NiMH pack, and installing
a Maxim one-wire thermometer is about as good as it gets. You use the
thermometer to monitor both charging AND  battery failure, in that a bad
cell heats up when being charged AND being used. You use a simple
PIC to monitor battery voltage, so if it overheats before topping off (15V),
the battery pack is defective.

Don't fiddle with NiCADs, the technology is considered by MOST US states to
be too toxic to be sold anymore.

--Bob A

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Cedric Chang <spamBeGoneccEraseMEspamnope9.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\07\07@150009 by Dr Skip

picon face
Do not disable a pack and ruin a consumer's investment unless there is a way to
'reset' it, since there are always unforeseen things. The protection is to
limit your liability for the most part. You cannot know every field situation
in advance.

For instance, during an emergency, it may be possible to locate a replacement
cell rather than a whole pack, that MAY be going bad due to one cell crossing
an arbitrary temperature point. It could also be that it was charging in the
sun and was close to max temp to begin with. An unresettable pack would be dead
by the pic than... this is very valid in third world situations where
replacements of anything are hard to get, and an 8 cell pack may 'fix' 8
failing packs if designed right, vs leaving the team or people only one good
pack from the mfg.

For resource, usage, and cost and supply reasons, consider the following if
using a pic with the ability to kill the pack:

- only shut the pack down at the temp. extreme, not permanently kill it

- allow cells to be replaced

- if your pic identifies a particular cell, flash it to the user via an led,
indicating which cell

- compare to starting ambient temp to better tell why the temp rise

- when 'getting close' to high temps, cut back on current and manage the temp,
not just shut it off.

You are at the mercy of cell manufacture, and I have seen so many packs for
things go bad for one cell (even identical AA's treated identically) that get
years back by changing one cell, that it's an extreme waste. The practice with
Li-ion packs to kill them outright is just as bad. Make it a hurdle to get to
the reset, so it won't be done casually, but consider the consumer and possible
extreme situations. If anything, you will accomplish the goal for the idiot
consumer, while differentiating your product for those that are in tougher
situations. It will be the product one invests in, rather than a throw-away.
I'm sure there's green points in there too... ;)




Bob Axtell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\07\07@220634 by Paul Hutchinson

picon face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bounces@spam@spamspamBeGonemit.edu On Behalf Of Bob Axtell
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 2:19 PM
<snip>
>
> Don't fiddle with NiCADs, the technology is considered by MOST US
> states to be too toxic to be sold anymore.

I have not seen any US State banning NiCad's, do you have a reference?

AFAICT, they are still widely available which is a good thing because other
than lead-acid no other rechargeable is suitable and reasonably priced for
use below freezing. Even the EU RoHS standards allow NiCad battery usage.

As with all battery types there are rules for disposal in all the States but
I have seen no evidence of any attempt at an outright ban.

Paul Hutch

>
> --Bob A

2008\07\08@104943 by Jeff Findley

flavicon
face

"Paul Hutchinson" <.....paullhutchinson@spam@spamEraseMEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:.....CCEPIPDIDDBJIGCGIDFKCEFJGLAA.paullhutchinsonRemoveMEspamyahoo.com...> >> {Original Message removed}


'[OT] Selection Criteria - another idiotic question'
2009\01\19@060718 by cdb
flavicon
face
Yes yes , I know, whinging (Australian) ,moaning (- most other
countries), making critques and pertinent observations (- me!) about
job adverts.

Here is one of the selection criteria for Queensland Health as a
Biomedical Technician.

' Able to demonstrate honesty, integrity and respect for all staff,
clients and other health care workers. '

Now what should I say? I once worked in a supermarket in an area that
took around GBP 21,000 a week in wines and spirits and I never felt
the urge to nick the money? I was responsible for 150K's worth of
stock and never thought about walking off with any of it?

I once saw  someone drop some money and I handed it back to them?  

Or for integrity - W H Smith (a newsagent group) once upset me - so I
vowed never to darken their doorstep for 4 years - and I didn't.

Hmmm, what about stating my personal beliefs, now that'd get them
going.

I'm a terribly nice person as I say so, though a certain UK surplus
outlet thinks I'm a terrorist - yup that'll get em the interview.

Colin
--
cdb,  on 19/01/2009



2009\01\19@064217 by Jinx

face picon face
> ' Able to demonstrate honesty, integrity and respect for all staff,
> clients and other health care workers. '

You'd think that would be a given wouldn't you

What else could they say ? "No riff-raff" ?

Once you rise through the ranks to be boss though you can allow your
real personality to come out and be a total jerk if that's what you really
are. As long as you keep the accountants and the board happy


2009\01\19@115846 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
"cdb" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Colin, I'm sure you would like another opinion from the dark side. ;)

IMO, you need to read more between the lines. The way I see it, this
"requrement" may have been intended to have three purposes:

1. Although you could argue that "honesty, integrity, and respect" is a
given for any job, we all know that some people are lying thieves, and some
shouldn't be working in jobs that put them in contact with other people.
During a termination interview, the employer can point to this "job
requirement" as a reason for firing an employee.

2. To serve as a deterrent. Often times, we use language in job ads that I
think would encourage certain people to try their luck elsewhere.

3. Communicating the company's values to prospective employees, encouraging
the right kind of people to apply.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that this particular piece is well written, I
would certainly not write something that sounds so impersonal and
condescending, for lack of a better word. However, I think the point is that
you may want to approach such ads with an open mind, and try to see beyond
the words. I certainly hope you would not pass up an opportunity just
because some parts of the job ad are poorly written.

Vitaliy


2009\01\19@140027 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: . Communicating the company's values to prospective employees,
:: encouraging
:: the right kind of people to apply.

Apart from the fact that I detest ' addressing selection criteria ', I
actually haven't the faintest idea how to even begin to answer such a
point.  'To Demonstrate' is always code in government speak to a whole
lot of drivel showing in what circumstances you have performed the
action stated. These also have to be answered as this is the only way
the HR departments make their shortlists, and the fixed interview
questions (another piece of impersonal drivel) will also touch on the
criteria questions.

The fixed questions of course which make the interview panel sound
incompetent, are supposedly to ensure that they cannot be accused of
unfairness and is supposed to remove the personality clash problem.
Maybe it is just I detest people reading from a script, interview
technique is a skill of its own, and although there will be set things
that need to be convered, the skill comes in being human and phrasing
questions to suit the person in front of you. To ask questions were a
previous question has already elicited the answer is just plain
stupid.

Colin
--
cdb, .....colinSTOPspamspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk on 20/01/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\01\19@144310 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
"cdb" wrote:
> :: . Communicating the company's values to prospective employees,
> :: encouraging
> :: the right kind of people to apply.
>
> Apart from the fact that I detest ' addressing selection criteria ', I
> actually haven't the faintest idea how to even begin to answer such a
> point.  'To Demonstrate' is always code in government speak to a whole
> lot of drivel showing in what circumstances you have performed the
> action stated. These also have to be answered as this is the only way
> the HR departments make their shortlists, and the fixed interview
> questions (another piece of impersonal drivel) will also touch on the
> criteria questions.

Are they actually asking you to answer this question? I thought it was just
a part of the job description (sort of an FYI).


> The fixed questions of course which make the interview panel sound
> incompetent, are supposedly to ensure that they cannot be accused of
> unfairness and is supposed to remove the personality clash problem.

We have a list of questions for all positions we interview for. We use them
more as a guideline/memory aid, however.


> Maybe it is just I detest people reading from a script, interview
> technique is a skill of its own, and although there will be set things
> that need to be convered, the skill comes in being human and phrasing
> questions to suit the person in front of you. To ask questions were a
> previous question has already elicited the answer is just plain
> stupid.

I agree.

Vitaliy

2009\01\19@151143 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: Are they actually asking you to answer this question? I thought it
:: was just
:: a part of the job description (sort of an FYI).

Yup ! Below is the complete Selection Criteria from Queensland Health.

Key skill requirements/competencies

Able to demonstrate a comprehensive knowledge and experience in
electronic and/or mechanical technologies, general engineering and
other technologies associated with health technology equipment.

Able to demonstrate the ability to apply established methods and
procedures in completing routine technical tasks (such as the
installation, maintenance and development of health technology or
similar equipment) as well as ability to complete more complex tasks
under the guidance of more experienced practitioners.

Able to demonstrate a  high level of interpersonal skills to
effectively communicate and work collaboratively with colleagues and
stakeholders/clients under the direction of more senior practitioners

Exhibit a willingness to provide guidance and support to students and
less experienced practitioners

Able to demonstrate a commitment to the principles of quality
management and continuous quality improvement.

Able to demonstrate honesty, integrity and respect for all staff,
clients and other health care workers.

Colin
--
cdb, colinEraseMEspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk on 20/01/2009

Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\01\19@160704 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:59 PM, cdb <RemoveMEcolinspamspamBeGonebtech-online.co.uk> wrote:
> I actually haven't the faintest idea how to even begin to answer such a
> point.

In previous interviews (do a google search for "behavioral interview")
I haven't had a difficult time coming up with something that covered
integrity, honesty, etc.

Is there a time you made a mistake and could have hidden it, but
instead chose to relay the mistake to your boss and fix it insofar as
you were able?

It isn't so much, "Are you going to steal us blind" as it is, are you
the type of person who identifies problems and fixes them even if (and
especially if) you were the source of the problem, or are you the
person who is always trying to cover up, fix blame elsewhere, and
generally try to avoid being caught with a mistake on your hands.

If you don't have a lot of job experience you might not have an
example that readily comes to mind for this.

-Adam

--
Please rate and vote for my contest entry:
mypic32.com/web/guest/profiles?profileID=50331

2009\01\19@215934 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
You wrote:

>:: Are they actually asking you to answer this question? I thought it
>:: was just a part of the job description (sort of an FYI).
>
> Yup ! Below is the complete Selection Criteria from Queensland Health.
>
> Key skill requirements/competencies
> [...]
> Able to demonstrate honesty, integrity and respect for all staff,
> clients and other health care workers.

Sounds to me as if all I needed to demonstrate this was showing up there
and let them see who I am. Seriously, I think that's it -- at least for
people who have these characteristics. You may be reading too much into
this (you don't have a problem with these requirements, do you? :)

Gerhard

2009\01\20@042511 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Apart from the fact that I detest ' addressing selection
>criteria ', I actually haven't the faintest idea how to
>even begin to answer such a point.

But surely the point of the original advertisement is to provide criteria
against which a candidate will be selected for employment, and ongoing
reviews.

It first provides a criteria against which candidates will be screened to
have further interviews, and finally make a selection of someone who appears
to be suitable, and if there are any complaints about the selection process,
the candidate can be told that they failed on that criteria, even if the
interview process doesn't specifically work through that point as a 'tick
box' during the interview.

And then if they didn't have the paragraph you originally posted, and then
they tried to fire the new employee for being an absolute bad relationship
nightmare, that person would be able to say it was never a criteria that
they be nice to other people, making it very difficult to get rid of them.


'[OT]An idiots guide to mechanical tools'
2009\03\17@000250 by cdb
flavicon
face
Found this on a website.

Tools Explained...A Valuable Guide

DRILL PRESS:

A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar
stock
out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your
beer
across the room, denting the freshly-painted vertical stabilizer which
you
had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.


WIRE WHEEL:

Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the
workbench
with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard-earned
calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you to say, "Oh
dash...."


ELECTRIC HAND DRILL:

Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes until you die of
old age.


SKILL SAW:

A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.


PLIERS:

Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of
blood-blisters.

BELT SANDER:

An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-up jobs
into major refinishing jobs.


HACKSAW:

One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle.
It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and
the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your
future becomes.


VISE-GRIPS:

Generally used after pliers to completely round off bolt heads. If
nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense
welding heat to the palm of your hand.



WELDING GLOVES:

Heavy duty leather gloves used to prolong the conduction of intense
Welding heat to the palm of your hand.

OXYACETYLENE TORCH:

Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your
shop
On fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub out
of which you want to remove a bearing race.


TABLE SAW:

A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood projectiles
for testing wall integrity.


HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK:
Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed
your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly
under the bumper.


EIGHT-FOOT LONG YELLOW PINE 2X4:

Used for levering an automobi le upward off of a trapped hydraulic
jack handle.


E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR:

A tool ten times harder than any known drill bit that snaps neatly off
in bolt holes thereby ending any possible future use.


BAND SAW:

A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut good
aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the trash
can after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside
edge.




TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST:

A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of everything you
forgot
To disconnect.


CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 24-INCH SCREWDRIVER:

A very large pry bar that inexplicably has an accurately machined
screwdriver tip on the end opposite the handle.


AVIATION METAL SNIPS:

See hacksaw.


PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER:

Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or for opening
old-style
paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your shirt; but can also
be
used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads.


STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER:
A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to convert common
slotted screws into non-removable screws.

PRY BAR:

A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you
needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part.

HOSE CUTTER:
A tool used to make hoses too short.

HAMMER:

Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as
a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
Object we are trying to hit.



MECHANIC'S KNIFE:

Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons
delivered
to your front door; works particularly well on contents such as seats,
Vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines ,
refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for
slicing work clothes, but only while in use.



DAMMIT TOOL:

Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling
"DAMMIT" at the top of your lungs. It is also, most often, the next
tool that you will need.
           
--
cdb,  on 17/03/2009



2009\03\17@090728 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 12:02 AM, cdb <spamBeGonecolinKILLspamspam@spam@btech-online.co.uk> wrote:
> TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST:
>
> A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of everything you
> forgot to disconnect.

I've seen many of them before, and they are all funny again, but this
one in particular caught me off guard.

Hilarious!

-Adam


'[OT] Why you can't make things idiot proof, becaus'
2009\05\13@041021 by Xiaofan Chen
face picon face
Just read a newsgroup post by Tim Roberts, a Windows driver experts.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.development.device.drivers/browse_thread/thread/2feabe6bb7c21161?hl=en

"You can't make things idiot proof, because the idiots keep getting
more and more capable."

LOL.

--
Xiaofan http://mcuee.blogspot.com

2009\05\13@135416 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Just read a newsgroup post by Tim Roberts, a Windows driver experts.
...
>"You can't make things idiot proof, because the idiots keep getting
>more and more capable."
>
>LOL.

Someone on this list has had a very similar line for a sig ... not sure if
they still do.

2009\05\18@160723 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Alan B. Pearce
<Alan.B.Pearcespam_OUTspam@spam@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Just read a newsgroup post by Tim Roberts, a Windows driver experts.
> ...
>>"You can't make things idiot proof, because the idiots keep getting
>>more and more capable."
>>
>>LOL.
>
> Someone on this list has had a very similar line for a sig ... not sure if
> they still do.

It's me! It's me!

Sorry for the delay, I'm catching up unread emails.

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

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