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'help should i build my own programmer or buy one'
1998\08\18@112137 by Kent Berry

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I,m new at this, and i have seen a lot of different programmers to build and
if i build one will it be supported or should i just buy one  where is the
best planes where is the best buy ?

1998\08\20@165926 by Graeme Odgers

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Hi Kent,

I built the Dontronics programmer, and I am very happy with it.  I only
program the PIC16C84 at this stage but it also can be configured to program
the F84.

I use Nigel Goodmans software to download and burn the micro, which is
mounted on a Simmstick

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Berry <spam_OUTFUNINTHESTakeThisOuTspamAOL.COM>
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, 18 August 1998 8:21
Subject: help should i build my own programmer or buy one


> I,m new at this, and i have seen a lot of different programmers to build
and
>if i build one will it be supported or should i just buy one  where is the
>best planes where is the best buy ?
>

Regards,
Graeme Odgers

1998\08\21@084145 by John Kirk

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Hi!   I hope my opinion doesn't make anyone angry, but I don't see why
anyone builds a programmer.    I guess if you are a manufacturer and needed
to program hundred's of chips you might want build something.  But with that
exception, why not just spend the $200 to $2,000 and get a complete working
programmer?   John Kirk

> {Original Message removed}

1998\08\21@102858 by

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> Hi!   I hope my opinion doesn't make anyone angry, but I don't see why
> anyone builds a programmer.    I guess if you are a manufacturer and
> needed
> to program hundred's of chips you might want build something.  But with
> that
> exception, why not just spend the $200 to $2,000 and get a complete
> working
> programmer?   John Kirk
>
>
Thats fine for people with a few hundred $'s to spend on a hobby they may be
just trying out.  The parallel port programmers cost just a few dollars and
do the job perfectly.  In fact a 16F84 and a cheapo homebrew programmer has
to be the cheapest way of developing a microcontroller application ever.

I agree it's pointless to build a production quality multi-device
programmer, ther are just so many on the market that it wouldn't be
economically viable to do so.

Mike Rigby-Jones
.....mrjonesKILLspamspam.....nortel.co.uk

1998\08\21@113310 by gley John

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A voice from the other end of the professional and 'tightwad' spectrum-
As a hobbyist, and I suspect not the only one this list, I wanted to
find the
cheapest way possible, which would still do the job. Fascinating though
it is,
designing and fabricating a board from scratch, I thought it might be a
bridge too
far, so I bought a kit for about GBP20 ($35?). Twenty minutes soldering
later, a
working programmer. Works fine, comes with its own programming software
and
IDE. If I got totally absorbed in the PIC thing, I might consider a
'better' programmer
but this one will do fine for the foreseeable future.

Regards

John Midgley

>{Original Message removed}

1998\08\21@133544 by Matt D K

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If I had the money I would just by a programmer but I just build all
mine. Besides when you build you know your hardware more intimately,
making troubleshoot easier.

Matt K

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1998\08\21@134623 by Nuno Filipe Pedrosa

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Well, if you buy a programmer, I think it's supposed to be already
troubleshot! If you were talking about wINDOWS, then yes, I understand
your point... We buy the SW and then we troubleshoot it... over and over
again.... 8)
Ain't you all glad that the weekend is already here?

Have fun!
Nuno.

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/*\\|//*\    SIEMENS S.A. Portugal                  (]|  /'    \ \/\
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On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Matt D K wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\08\21@135222 by William Chops Westfield

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   Hi!  I hope my opinion doesn't make anyone angry, but I don't see why
   anyone builds a programmer.  I guess if you are a manufacturer and
   needed to program hundred's of chips you might want build something.
   But with that exception, why not just spend the $200 to $2,000 and get a
   complete working programmer?

Why in the world would I buy a $500 programmer to program 10 or so $5 parts
used in "hobby" circuits that don't generate any income for anyone?  I
could see it if I was a manufacturer and would be getting income of 5x
parts cost for each of thousands of widgets I expected to sell, but as a
hobbyist that would be the most expensive piece of equipment in my lab.
(except the computer, which ought to be able to do most of the work anyway,
and is also useful for taking out agressions using graphically violent KILL
games...)

:-)
BillW

1998\08\21@160754 by Ansel Sermersheim

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(I already sent this out, but I think it got mangled.  Apologies if
it's a dupe.)

>>>>> "Rigby-Jones," == Rigby-Jones, Michael <Rigby-Jones> writes:

>> Hi!  I hope my opinion doesn't make anyone angry, but I don't see
>> why anyone builds a programmer.  I guess if you are a manufacturer
>> and needed to program hundred's of chips you might want build
>> something.  But with that exception, why not just spend the $200 to
>> $2,000 and get a complete working programmer?  John Kirk
>>
>>
> Thats fine for people with a few hundred $'s to spend on a hobby
> they may be just trying out.  The parallel port programmers cost
> just a few dollars and do the job perfectly.  In fact a 16F84 and a
> cheapo homebrew programmer has to be the cheapest way of developing
> a microcontroller application ever.

I'm rather new to this list and to electronics in general, but I've
been a software person for a long time.  I don't have much to spend on
what is for me a hobby, and as a college student I have essentially no
free income.

Could anyone point me at a programmer out there that would be a good
start? I'm perfectly capable of putting it together from a schematic if
neccesary, but I don't think I can design one yet ;)

Additionally, if someone could point me toward a PIC assembler and
downloader for my preferred environment (Linux), I'd be very grateful.

Thanks very much,
-Ansel Sermersheim
--
GCS/CM/IT d- s+:-- a--- C++++ UL++++>$ V? P+++ L++(++++) E++ W+ N++ w---
M-- PS++ PE Y+ PGP++ t++(*) 5+++ X+ R tv b++++ DI++++ D---(+) G++ e*>++
h!>++ r--- y?

1998\08\21@172831 by Matt D K

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On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:54:32 -0700 Ansel Sermersheim
<agsermspamspam_OUTNETWIZARDS.NET> writes:
{Quote hidden}

Viva la linux! first check out
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/piclinks.html he has a lot of good
programmers you can build and supplies everything except parts. Second at
http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/rsargent/picutils.html theres an un*x
assembler and simulater. At http://www.eskimo.com/~nexus/picpgmr.shtml is
a linux downloader. Georg Hager gave me this link
http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/pic.html for "prog84". And finally at
http://www.ccc.notingham.ac.uk/~cczsteve/pic84.html theres a programmer
for the '84with linux software look in the "third party contributions"
for the linux software. I hope this helps you out

P.S Everythings almost for PIC16C84

Matt k

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1998\08\23@053914 by Graeme Odgers

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Hi John,

I am a TAFE teacher at Bankstown Technical College in Sydney, so my
application is somewhat different to production applications.  There are a
number of reasons for building a cheap programmer:

1.  Cost effective for small scale applications.  Most students do not have
the money to spend on fabricated units

2.  TAFE does not have the resources to make programmers available in bulk
for students.  We are lucky to have one unit for a class as most moneys goes
to beuracratic overheads

3.  To maintain a learning atmosphere of interest and application it is
desirable that students have equipment that is portable and can be used at
home or work to aid in project design and construction.

4.  The Simmstick product and similar units, offer a high degree of
portability and hence experimentation.

5.  At the end of the course the students walk away with a unit they can
continue to use.

6.  I have found that students will always put in extra study and effort
when the application can be directly applied to personal interests.

7.  Software can be obtained at little or no cost from internet resources
for units such as the Dontronics DT001
depending on the students needs,  assembly, PICBasic, CCS

8.  Its highly motivating and fun to construct and design a unit that will
work first time.

Hope this explains my point of view and encourages other students reading
the list to "giveitago"
Regards,
Graeme Odgers

{Original Message removed}

1998\08\23@060724 by Graeme Odgers

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Hi John,

I am a TAFE teacher at Bankstown Technical College in Sydney, so my
application is somewhat different to production applications.  There are a
number of reasons for building a cheap programmer:

1.  Cost effective for small scale applications.  Most students do not have
the money to spend on fabricated units

2.  TAFE does not have the resources to make programmers available in bulk
for students.  We are lucky to have one unit for a class as most moneys goes
to beuracratic overheads

3.  To maintain a learning atmosphere of interest and application it is
desirable that students have equipment that is portable and can be used at
home or work to aid in project design and construction.

4.  The Simmstick product and similar units, offer a high degree of
portability and hence experimentation.

5.  At the end of the course the students walk away with a unit they can
continue to use.

6.  I have found that students will always put in extra study and effort
when the application can be directly applied to personal interests.

7.  Software can be obtained at little or no cost from internet resources
for units such as the Dontronics DT001
depending on the students needs,  assembly, PICBasic, CCS

8.  Its highly motivating and fun to construct and design a unit that will
work first time.

Hope this explains my point of view and encourages other students reading
the list to "giveitago"
Regards,
Graeme Odgers

>{Original Message removed}

1998\08\24@084755 by John Kirk

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Hi!  Don't know anything about your enviroment.  For programmers I suggest
getting on Digi-Key's site ( http://www.digikey.com) and ordering the PICSTART plus
programmer for $199.00.   I had some trouble setting up MPLAB, but it all
works.
Good Luck: John Kirk

> {Original Message removed}

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