Post by thread:coming death of microchip?

www.eet.com/story/industry/semiconductor_news/OEG19991018S0042 Upshot: motarola planning to ship $1 flash-based part soon, AND: "All of our new designs will be flash-based instead of OTP because we can offer this memory storage at about the same price as the one-time programmable solutions," said Kilbane. I don't see how microchip can compete against that sort of thing unless they get a lot more agressive with new parts, lower prices, and better availability. (Motarola isn't alone, of course. Atmel and Scenix are also essentially flash-only suppliers.) BillW

On Tue, Oct 26, 1999 at 01:24:11PM -0700, William Chops Westfield wrote: > > Upshot: motarola planning to ship $1 flash-based part soon, AND: Motorola's record on actually delivering parts to everyone who wants them is pretty poor. Ask any 68HC11 user how many times they've been told a particular part is on allocation. Microchip's success has more to do with savvy marketing, a willingness to deal with customers of any size, and the ability to actually deliver parts most of the time than with price. Don't write them off just yet. Regards, Clyde -- Clyde Smith-Stubbs | HI-TECH Software Email: spam_OUTclydeTakeThisOuThtsoft.com | Phone Fax WWW: http://www.htsoft.com/ | USA: (408) 490 2885 (408) 490 2885 PGP: finger .....clydeKILLspam@spam@htsoft.com | AUS: +61 7 3355 8333 +61 7 3355 8334 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- HI-TECH C: compiling the real world.

>Motorola's record on actually delivering parts to everyone who >wants them is pretty poor. Ask any 68HC11 user how many times they've Only those with "Motors" as part of the name seem to get them. Andy ================================================================== Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready? Ask me how! ------------------------------------------------------------------ andyKILLspamrc-hydros.com http://www.rc-hydros.com - Race Boats .....andyKILLspam.....montanadesign.com http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics ==================================================================

I think 'til Microchip will be available thru DigiKey for a few thousand pieces, and have a friendly salesperson who willing to talk You even if You do not order 10 million pieces they are not going to have any problem. PeterSSubject: coming death of microchip? {Quote hidden}> http://www.eet.com/story/industry/semiconductor_news/OEG19991018S0042 > > Upshot: motarola planning to ship $1 flash-based part soon, AND: > > "All of our new designs will be flash-based instead of OTP > because we can offer this memory storage at about the same > price as the one-time programmable solutions," said Kilbane. > > I don't see how microchip can compete against that sort of thing unless > they get a lot more agressive with new parts, lower prices, and better > availability. (Motarola isn't alone, of course. Atmel and Scenix are > also essentially flash-only suppliers.) > > BillW

part 0 1039 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; (decoded 7bit) Francisco William Chops Westfield wrote: {Quote hidden}> http://www.eet.com/story/industry/semiconductor_news/OEG19991018S0042 > > Upshot: motarola planning to ship $1 flash-based part soon, AND: > > "All of our new designs will be flash-based instead of OTP > because we can offer this memory storage at about the same > price as the one-time programmable solutions," said Kilbane. > > I don't see how microchip can compete against that sort of thing unless > they get a lot more agressive with new parts, lower prices, and better > availability. (Motarola isn't alone, of course. Atmel and Scenix are > also essentially flash-only suppliers.) > > BillW Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="briones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Francisco Armenta Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="briones.vcf" Attachment converted: wonderland:briones.vcf 3 (TEXT/CSOm) (0000E7D0)

Consider also that flash is little or no advantage for many applications (such as low-end mass produced trackballs and mice), so those applications aren't going to rush away from otp & mask rom parts even if flash could be had for the same price. But for the many applications that do benefit from flash, microchip may be forced to become more competitive, either by dropping prices or increasing features. I'm sure they are already feeling some competitive pressure coming from parts that have performance and features that PIC's still lack. The fast Scenix chips and the chips with built-in USB from Philips and others come to mind. I really hope mchip can turn their USB parts in production soon, and more importantly, get USB functionality into flash parts with better than 8 bit a/d. Their upcoming 16C7xx USB parts that are mentioned on their web site are cool, but a 16F8xx part with USB would be a better bet. After all, USB is primarily for PC peripherals, and the ability to reprogram such peripherals in the field is an extremely desirable feature. Of course, flash won't mean much for these applications unless there is some mechanism to flash them over the USB connection itself. Maybe have both OTP and flash on the same part so that code in the OTP can handle re-writing the flash from data sent over USB. Or maybe something like two microcontrollers on a single chip, one bare-bones one with OTP just to handle communications and flash upgrading and a more feature-rich flashable one that is free to do other things with minimal communications overhead. Major design cost I'm sure. But I can dream can't I? And if Microchip could produce such a thing at a reasonable cost, I don't think they'd have any shortage of customers for it. And isn't this kind of co-processor function just the kind of thing that PICs were created for in the first place? > Microchip's success has more to do with savvy marketing, a willingness > to deal with customers of any size, and the ability to actually deliver > parts most of the time than with price. Don't write them off just yet. --- Peace, William Kitchen EraseMEbillspam_OUTTakeThisOuTiglobal.net The future is ours to create.

Andy Kunz wrote: > > >Motorola's record on actually delivering parts to everyone who > >wants them is pretty poor. Ask any 68HC11 user how many times they've > > Only those with "Motors" as part of the name seem to get them. > > Andy I must agree with Clyde and Andy on the Motorola subject. The reason I got into PICs was Motorola. Robert Nansel has the Amateur Robotics column in Nuts & Volts magazine, and when he first wrote about SimmSticks way back in Aug-98, he said: There are currently no Motorola MCU chips such as the 68HC05 or 68HC11 supported by SimmSticks. This is a shame since these seem to be naturals for SimmSticks, and they are generally more popular with us gearheads. If Antti, or Don, or Ben don't design an HC11 SimmStick, I may have to do one myself. (are you listening guys?) I told Robert what I thought, and the problems I have had with Motorola in the past, as I found prices and lead times became science fiction. If you don't build phones or cars, forget them. I haven't completely wiped the idea, but some one will have to do a good job of convincing me otherwise. Don McKenzie donspam_OUTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com Don's Download Dungeon: http://www.dontronics.com/download.html Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest: http://www.simmstick.com

At 07:48 27/10/99 +1000, you wrote: >Andy Kunz wrote: >> >> >Motorola's record on actually delivering parts to everyone who >> >wants them is pretty poor. Ask any 68HC11 user how many times they've >> >> Only those with "Motors" as part of the name seem to get them. >> >> Andy > >I must agree with Clyde and Andy on the Motorola subject. >The reason I got into PICs was Motorola. > Also there is the "Vaporware" issue, we must be dilligent in choice and use as often manufacturers test the water by anoucing some item, give an intended delivery date, then wait for cusomers to ask about it. If no questions, idem dies, if questions = big orders the silicon G-D gives life to the creation = some happy customers Dennis

William Chops Westfield wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, has anyone had IMPROVED luck with motorola since their > "No Excuses, Just delivered" OTP marketing campaign? Mostly yes. I haven't had trouble getting HC05P6As. Oddball parts like windowed HC11P2s took a little more time (and money), but even that took less than a week. However, when I tried ordering parts over their web site, it turned into a big fiasco. The local rep called to see what was going on, even though the order was supposed to be going through a different distributor. The local rep got me parts in short order. The on-line order took a couple weeks. This was early in the roll-out of the program, so it may have improved since then. Regards, Jeff

On Tue, Oct 26, 1999 at 04:23:25PM -0500, William J. Kitchen wrote: > Consider also that flash is little or no advantage for many applications (such > as low-end mass produced trackballs and mice), so those applications aren't > going to rush away from otp & mask rom parts even if flash could be had for > the same price. The mask parts do not need programming, and the code memory does not deteriorate with time so are better then flash and OTP parts for such applications. But why OTP should be better suited for such apps than flash? -- Greetings Wojciech Zabolotny http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab Build your free Data Acquisition System: http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/picadc/picadc.html

> On Tue, Oct 26, 1999 at 04:23:25PM -0500, William J. Kitchen wrote: > > Consider also that flash is little or no advantage for many applications > (such > > as low-end mass produced trackballs and mice), so those applications > aren't > > going to rush away from otp & mask rom parts even if flash could be had > for > > the same price. > Wojciech Zabolotny replied: > The mask parts do not need programming, and the code memory does not > deteriorate > with time so are better then flash and OTP parts for such applications. > But why OTP should be better suited for such apps than flash? > -- > I think the point William is making is that generally Flash parts have a cost penalty, and if the application your PIC sits in would not benefit form the advantages of flash, i.r. re-programability. When was the last time you upgraded the firmware in a $3 Taiwanese mouse? Mike Rigby-Jones

> I think the point William is making is that generally Flash parts have a > cost penalty, and if the application your PIC sits in would not benefit form > the advantages of flash, i.r. re-programability. When was the last time you > upgraded the firmware in a $3 Taiwanese mouse? That's it exactly. There are applications in which flash is of little or no practical advantage, so cost would be the deciding factor. The flash parts would have to become cheaper than OTP to be worthwhile in applications such as this. If they were the same cost, then they would be an equally good choice for totally new development, but there would still be no incentive to convert existing designs or for a developer with existing PIC experience to start designing around a different architecture. --- Peace, William Kitchen @spam@billKILLspamiglobal.net The future is ours to create.