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PICList Thread
'Which chip?'
1999\02\25@230922 by PJH

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Uh, could someone put my mind at
ease please?

I have a PICSTARTPLUS Development
Kit and it works fine with 16F84s

Now I suddenly need to dust off a
couple of old designs which used
the 16C54 & 16C57 and fabricate the
units they controlled..

The instruction manual says the
PICSTART+ can handle the 16c54 &
16c57 ? I'll have to order in some
more of these chips - the 54 & 57.
Should I now get the windowed "JW"
version or the plain-ordinary
plastic DIP version?

I mean, there's no "GOTCHA" with
the windowed "JW" type and
plastic-DIP versions is there?  If
I spend  a bundle for new 54's &
57's, the programmes I wrote
previously to run the windowed
chips will run on the plain ones?

And I can dump the old programmes,
unmodified,  into the plain chips
using the PICSTART+ instead of the
now defunct PICSTART-16B?

Sorry about the dumb question but
I've been bitten too many times to
take anything much for granted.

Many thanx  for any advice - PJH

1999\02\26@082933 by Jim Robertson

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At 15:04 26/02/99 +1100, you wrote:
>Uh, could someone put my mind at
>ease please?
>
snip
>
>I mean, there's no "GOTCHA" with
>the windowed "JW" type and
>plastic-DIP versions is there?  If
>I spend  a bundle for new 54's &
>57's, the programmes I wrote
>previously to run the windowed
>chips will run on the plain ones?

Yes, they will but you have to be
careful to intialize your ram locations
fully as the light can influence
unintialized ram locations.

Apart from this I see no problems.

>
>And I can dump the old programmes,
>unmodified,  into the plain chips
>using the PICSTART+ instead of the
>now defunct PICSTART-16B?

Yes.

>
>Sorry about the dumb question but
>I've been bitten too many times to
>take anything much for granted.

That's not so dumb.

Jim


>Many thanx  for any advice - PJH
>
________________________________________
Jim Robertson
Email: spam_OUTnewfoundTakeThisOuTspampipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\02\26@090855 by Mike Keitz

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On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 15:04:12 +1100 PJH <.....elekKILLspamspam@spam@NETSTRA.COM.AU> writes:

>I mean, there's no "GOTCHA" with
>the windowed "JW" type and
>plastic-DIP versions is there?  If
>I spend  a bundle for new 54's &
>57's, the programmes I wrote
>previously to run the windowed
>chips will run on the plain ones?
>
>And I can dump the old programmes,
>unmodified,  into the plain chips
>using the PICSTART+ instead of the
>now defunct PICSTART-16B?
>

The plain chips are electrically exactly the same as the windowed ones,
same chip inside but no window.  The only time the window is necessary is
if you want to erase and reuse the chip.  If you are just making more
systems with the same proven old code, plastic chips are fine.  If you
want to modify and debug the code, buy a few windowed ones to use during
testing.

The PICSTART Plus will program them just fine.  You can use the same .HEX
files that were used with the 16B1 and the programmed chips will be
identical.  Just make sure to double-check the fuse settings.  That's the
major gotcha.  I think with the 5X chips they now only have "A" versions,
which don't have the oscillator type pre-programmed like the original
ones were.


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1999\02\26@091904 by jamesp

picon face
The answer is yes as far as dumping the code from the old chips to the new ones
.
 You should be able to plug in an OTP and go with it.   If it were me, just
to be sure, I'd get at least one
JW part and try that first.  If everything went well, I'd finish programming
with the OTP's.  One other point to ponder..you didn't say how many of these
parts you had to program, but the PICSTART+ is designated a development programm
er
and not certified for production programming.  This shouldn't be a problem,
but something you may want to consider if you have very many to program.  I'm
not demeaning the PICSTART+, just repeating what Microchip states.

Happy Programming

                                       Regards,

                                         Jim





{Quote hidden}

1999\02\26@123920 by Marc

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> I mean, there's no "GOTCHA" with
> the windowed "JW" type and
> plastic-DIP versions is there?

Those are
EPROM based!
Like with
normal EPROMs
you need
UV-light to
erase the
chip.

The JW
variant has
a window,
that allows
you to shine
UV onto the
cells. You
can erase
such a chip
in 10-20
minutes.

The P-DIP
does not
have a
window,
making it
_one_time_
programmable
(OTP). Once
you have
programmed
it, it's
over. You
can't erase
it anymore.
If your
software is
working,
fine. If
you suddenly
realize you
still have
a bug in it,
throw it
away and buy
a new one.

1999\02\26@190102 by PJH

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Hi again,

I just want to thank all the guys who
provided info about the 16C54 & 16C57
when programmed via PICSTART+ instead
of PICSTART-16B.

'Phew! It was a dumb question but it
was a good thing I asked - for some
reason I had it it in my mind that the
plastic-DIPs could be electrically
erased like the the 16F84. Ah, but
they're EPROMs and, without a window,
they're OTP.

Wasn't it one of your (US) presidents
who said something like, "If you keep
your mouth shut folks will think
you're an idiot, but if you open it
they'll know for sure"?

I'll  get the JWs "just in case" -
sometimes the customer wants minor
changes to the gizmo's function and
I'd  be up a tree if that happened
with OTPs

Regards - PJH

1999\02\27@071153 by paulb

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PJH wrote:

> I'll get the JWs "just in case" - sometimes the customer wants minor
> changes to the gizmo's function and I'd  be up a tree if that happened
> with OTPs

 Hold on!  The JWs are approximately *five times* the price of the OTPs
so you generally don't sell those to the customer!  Unless of course,
you are betting that *each* customer will need five upgrades on average.

 If you supply these upgrades as "chip only" to the customer who then
fits it, you then need to factor in mailing costs, so that you would
only use JWs if your average upgrade rate *per customer* was say, ten,
because there would be a major expense involved in recovering the chip
(and an accompanying risk of ESD and mechanical damage).

 If however you provide the service (swapping the chip), it might still
be worthwhile recycling JW chips.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.


'Which chip?'
1999\03\04@022855 by paulb
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Mark Willis wrote:

> You have to factor in your time, if you go do an in-field visit (a two
> hour round trip, twice a week, adds up;  3 of them chopped my
> productivity into shards, on the job I'm thinking about <G>)

 Indeed.  I was proposing that it depended on the situation.  *If* you
are doing the field trip *anyway*, use the JWs (no copy protection - but
if you are providing this service level, you're very unlikely to be
ripped off).
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\03\07@180857 by Mark Willis

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Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
>
> Mark Willis wrote:
>
> > You have to factor in your time, if you go do an in-field visit (a two
> > hour round trip, twice a week, adds up;  3 of them chopped my
> > productivity into shards, on the job I'm thinking about <G>)
>
>   Indeed.  I was proposing that it depended on the situation.  *If* you
> are doing the field trip *anyway*, use the JWs (no copy protection - but
> if you are providing this service level, you're very unlikely to be
> ripped off).
> --
>   Cheers,
>         Paul B.

 Makes sense to me!  The other thing is to carry a spare in case of
disasters (I'd never drop a chip accidentally when bumped, etc. etc.
<G>)

 Mark

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