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'VERY low cost RS232 PIC Programmer'
1995\07\31@102655 by Erik Hermann

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Hi !

I've designed a very easy and cheap but nevertheless comfortable
PIC 16C84 Programmer using the PC's serial port.

Here it goes :



TxD -----*-------------------------I
         I                         I=20
         I                         I
        ---                       --- =20
        I I  2k2                  I I  10k=20
        I I                       I I
        ---                       ---
         I   I\I                   I
         *---I I----*--------I     I
         I   I/I    I        I     I
        ---\        I +      I     I
    5V6 / \        ---       I     I
        ---        --- 100u  I     I
         I          I        I 14  I 4
         I          I     I--I-----I---I
         I          I     I Vdd   Vpp  I =20
         I          I   5 I            I  =20
GND ------*----------*-----I Gnd        I      =20
                          I            I   PIC 16C84
       22k                I            I
       --              12 I            I
RTS ---I  I----------------I RB6        I
       --                 I            I
       --              13 I            I
DTR ---I  I---*------------I RB7        I
       --    I            I            I
       2k2   I            I------------I=20
             I
CTS ----------I



As You can see, it doesn't need any external supply.
All voltages are taken from the Port.
This may only work with truely compatible ports, but I've testet
it on five different PC's, and all worked.
Perhaps You=B4ll have to vary the 2k2 resistors.=20

I've converted David Tait's software to Pascal and adapted it to my=
hardware.
(Semms that You created a real evergreen, David ;-)

Works fine !
It can erase, program, and verify the PIC.

The programming voltage is out of the specification (12-14V).
It's about 9-10 V.
I don't know if this will work with older chips, but mine work great.
( /10 and LC04).

Comments ?

- Erik

1995\07\31@103524 by Byron A Jeff

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>
> Hi !
>
> I've designed a very easy and cheap but nevertheless comfortable
> PIC 16C84 Programmer using the PC's serial port.
>
> Here it goes :
[ Really cool design deleted. ]
> Works fine !
> It can erase, program, and verify the PIC.
>
> The programming voltage is out of the specification (12-14V).
> It's about 9-10 V.

For the 16C84 the Vpp voltage is just an indicator of programming mode.
I believe the minimum threshold is Vcc+4.5V.

If you're really paranoid you could attach a 7660 voltage doubler
then adjust the voltage to 13V.


> I don't know if this will work with older chips, but mine work great.
> ( /10 and LC04).
>
> Comments ?

Totally Awesome! Great for portables.
I'll try to build one soon.

Thanks for the design.

BAJ

1995\07\31@120904 by David Tait

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Erik Hermann <spam_OUTehermannTakeThisOuTspamSUN.KOBLENZ.FH-RPL.DE> wrote:

> I've designed a very easy and cheap but nevertheless comfortable
> PIC 16C84 Programmer using the PC's serial port.

Brilliant!  I was puzzled by your earlier post saying that AN589 was
too complicated, but now I can see what you meant; you are even
pressing the PIC internal protection diodes of into service to save
components.  Let me pass on my admiration of a truly original
approach.

I notice that the 12V minimum VPP spec in the datasheet applies for
entry into programming mode and only 9.5V is needed for programming.
Still, I guess this is the only less than ideal aspect of your
programmer and I haven't any experience of its implications for the
long term retention of EEPROM contents.  One thing that has puzzled me
for a long time is the datasheet "supply current from VDD during
program/verify" spec of 50mA maximum.  Obviously your design can't
meet that spec, but then again I have never come across a PIC that
needed even an order of magnitude less than that rating.

By the way, is your Pascal source available anywhere?

David
--
.....david.taitKILLspamspam@spam@man.ac.uk

1995\07\31@123856 by Antti Lukats

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Hi David,

I read your reply to the COM port serial programmer,
I have a similar (unfinished) design on my desktop,
just havent got time to do it. The schematics on Piclist
is Ok, except the RS-232 readback is really tricky,
( CTS is never < -3V what it should be to RS-232 specs)
but well it seems to work that way too.
I will release the driver for that hardware too soon.
then all my soft will work on that hardare...
Hardware is published now, so
I dont have to bother about that any more :-)
You havent asked for my Pascal sources?
BTW: I did rework the Linux PIC16C84 programmer
soft so it now works with your programmer hardware,
Linux stuff will hopefully uploaded too in few days
I also tested my software in OS/2 DOS box works too,

So now your programmer is supported in
DOS, Win3.1 Windows 95, OS/2, and finally Linux!

Cheers Antti


'VERY low cost RS232 PIC Programmer'
1995\08\01@025946 by Antti Lukats
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Hei PICLIST,

our Microchip device programming software for MS-DOS
now supports simple RS-232 powered programmer

Programming software:
ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/msdos/pgmtools/pip-02.zip

Driver for RS-232 PIC programmer:
ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/msdos/drivers/com84.zip

GIF image of the schematics we are using:
ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/CAD/DIY/BITMAPS/com84.gif

all that above also available via http

If you already have downloaded PIP-02, please get
new version (minor bug fixes done)

To find out what hardware is currently supported
by our programming tools please browse our WWW pages!

cheers antti

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Antti Lukats                          Silicon Studio --
-- sisspamKILLspamrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500    --
-- ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001 --
-- http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia        --
----------------------------------------------------------

1995\08\01@061500 by Erik Hermann

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Thus spoke Antti Lukats:
>
> just havent got time to do it. The schematics on Piclist
> is Ok, except the RS-232 readback is really tricky,
> ( CTS is never < -3V what it should be to RS-232 specs)
> but well it seems to work that way too.

Yes, I know this problem.
The PC's serial port is known for detecting levels below 1 V
as LOW and above 1.25 V as HIGH.

That's the reason why this circuit works and why it won't on some
of the 'not so compatible' PC's.


> I will release the driver for that hardware too soon.
> then all my soft will work on that hardare...

Sounds interesting. Where can I get it ?

> BTW: I did rework the Linux PIC16C84 programmer
> soft so it now works with your programmer hardware,
> Linux stuff will hopefully uploaded too in few days
> I also tested my software in OS/2 DOS box works too,

Sounds interesting, too :-)
I've planned to convert my software to OS/2 by using Virtual Pascal.


- Erik

1995\08\01@061503 by David Tait

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Antti Lukats <.....sisKILLspamspam.....rasi.lr.ttu.ee> wrote:

> our Microchip device programming software for MS-DOS
> now supports simple RS-232 powered programmer

Amazing!  Erik let the list know about his design and nine hours later
Silicon Studio have modified the design slightly, drawn a new schematic
and written software to drive it.  Makes me feel positively sedantary.

David
--
EraseMEdavid.taitspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTman.ac.uk

1995\08\01@061702 by Erik Hermann

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>Brilliant!  I was puzzled by your earlier post saying that AN589 was
>too complicated, but now I can see what you meant; you are even

Yes, but I'm not so glad with this design.
Too many resistors used ;-))


 - Erik

1995\08\01@065058 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

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David Tait scribbled:

> Amazing!  Erik let the list know about his design and nine hours later
> Silicon Studio have modified the design slightly, drawn a new schematic
> and written software to drive it.  Makes me feel positively sedantary.

And I assume they built it as well! How many hours are there in 9 hours?

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3300 5011
clydespamspam_OUThitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3300 5246
                         | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   | BBS:   +61 7 3300 5235
                   HI-TECH C: Compiling the real world...

1995\08\01@072246 by Erik Hermann

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>GIF image of the schematics we are using:
>ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/CAD/DIY/BITMAPS/com84.gif
>

I doubt that this schematic will work on my RS232 port.

I've experimented with the 78L05 regulator and have found that it
draws to much current from the port.
Therefore the programming voltage will be too low.
That's the reason why I've used a Z-diode instead.

The resistor between RTS and RB6 should be 22k (according to microchip).
But I think the 10mA that a RS232 output can suppply isn't enough to
fry a PIC ;-)

The resistor between DTR and CTS depends on the input impedance
of CTS.
I've found considerable variations on several ports.
That's the reason why I've uses 2k2.
4k7 didn't work on one of my ports !

 - Erik

1995\08\01@082418 by Antti Lukats

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To PICLIST

answers to various mail regarding the RS-232 PIC programmer..

Well.. the software was adopted in less than one hour

On the schematics - well I used resistors I had on my desk.
As the 4k7 did work Ok so I made schematics like that, thats
whats I'm using on my test hardware. It may be required to use
different resistors. I will put info on that when I get it tested..
78L05 did work Ok, and I did'nt have any Zeners...
Sure you may use Zeners as well.

I havent released Win 3.1/Windows 95 drivers for the RS-232
programmer, if anyone interested please let us know.

We are working for Linux support, some coding testing done,
however we havent yet ported our drivers/software to Unix/Linux
but we are working on...

We have tested our DOS software in OS/2 boxes, it works.
(RS-232 programmer driver not tested yet on OS/2)

antti

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Antti Lukats                          Silicon Studio --
-- @spam@sisKILLspamspamrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500    --
-- ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001 --
-- http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia        --
----------------------------------------------------------

1995\08\01@084531 by David Warman

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In message <KILLspam199507311431.PAA09832KILLspamspamlistserv.rl.ac.uk>, RemoveMEehermannTakeThisOuTspamsun.koblenz.fh-r
pl.de writes:
>Hi !
>
>I've designed a very easy and cheap but nevertheless comfortable
>PIC 16C84 Programmer using the PC's serial port.

Neat design.  The D connector for the serial port is a little
expensive though. ;-)

I've also just downloaded Antti Lukats PIP-02 package, which looks
very nice (I haven't got any 84's at the moment, or I'd have tested
it by now!).  And I didn't think it was possible to write useful
software in Pascal! :->

Only thing is, I want to be able to program '54s as well.  The PIP-02
files refer to a 'ProCheap 1.0' programmer which can do this.  Anybody
know anything about this one?

I'm assuming I'll have to bootstrap via an 84, unless anyone knows
of a 16C54 programmer on about the same budget.  (Perhaps slightly
more: the windowed parts aren't cheap, so I suppose I can afford
a similar amount on the programmer)  I know the ETI design does
these, I was wondering if there are any others?

Incidentally, has there been any progress on solving the infamous
'84 code protect security problem?  Or is it still going to be a
while before that's fixed?

Thanks,

Dave.

(just off to get a 16C84 to play with...)

1995\08\01@101255 by Byron A Jeff

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>
> Only thing is, I want to be able to program '54s as well.  The PIP-02
> files refer to a 'ProCheap 1.0' programmer which can do this.  Anybody
> know anything about this one?
>
> I'm assuming I'll have to bootstrap via an 84, unless anyone knows
> of a 16C54 programmer on about the same budget.  (Perhaps slightly
> more: the windowed parts aren't cheap, so I suppose I can afford
> a similar amount on the programmer)  I know the ETI design does
> these, I was wondering if there are any others?

You'll probably have to to bootstrap something. The key difference is that
EEPROM has self timed writes while EPROM requires the programmer to both
start and stop the write. And at 100 uS +- 5 uS it's a bit difficult to
get that precise a timing resolution.

That's how the 16C84 can help because once programmed it can generate
timing like that.

I use my 16C84 as a RAM loader for 17C42's. Takes a few chips but it's
nice to have instant turnarounds.

BAJ

1995\08\01@101501 by Byron A Jeff

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{Quote hidden}

Let me know if you need any help with this. I've already coded up a
16C84 based RAM loader for the 17C42 using the Linux serial drivers.

BAJ

1995\08\03@101152 by Rolan

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Erik, your design is pure genius! I have the whole circuit packed
inside of a DB-25 Hood with a 18 pin socket on the flat outside of the
casing.

Can anyone help me with this troubleshoot?

The programmer would only work when I had a logic probe drawing power from
ground and pin 14. Is this an added capacitance/resistance or both?
A solution that worked turned out to be placing a .1uF cap between ground
and MCLR????<-don't know what that has to do with the logic probe, but
it worked.

-()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()---()-
Rolan Yang            http://hertz.njit.edu/~rxy5310   Electrical Engineer
spamBeGonerxy5310spamBeGonespamhertz.njit.edu                             TakeThisOuTkyuriusEraseMEspamspam_OUTtsb.weschke.com
VR,ROBOTICS,FENCING,HACKING,INDUSTRIAL MUSIC,ART,EXPLOSIVES,INLINE SKATING
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4 out of 10 people are annoyed by ^ this.

1995\08\03@114725 by Antti Lukats

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>The programmer would only work when I had a logic probe drawing power from
>ground and pin 14. Is this an added capacitance/resistance or both?
>A solution that worked turned out to be placing a .1uF cap between ground
>and MCLR????<-don't know what that has to do with the logic probe, but
>it worked.

I dont know which software did you use with Eriks programmer.

If it was ours than problem could be that you didnt fit in the 100 uF!
It is _required_ to be 100uF, as we are generating a virtual low pulse
on MCLR after VCC is settled to +5 Volts, for the correct program mode
entry it is required MCLR to be at low level whilst device is powered.

Our driver may also work without 100uF capacitor, in that case a
small cap on MCLR pin would be required to delay MCLR.

We didnt check that possibility and adopted our driver to be fully
compatible with the original schematics by Erik

We have done at least 100 Program/Verify cycles with the schematics
as on our WWW, it works fine (in Windows 95 DOS box)

PS for those who are interested in Win 3.1 drivers for this
programmer, they will be available next week.

antti

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Antti Lukats                          Silicon Studio --
-- RemoveMEsisspamTakeThisOuTrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500    --
-- ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001 --
-- http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia        --
----------------------------------------------------------

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