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'USB Chip Sets'
2003\03\11@152537 by Tim Webb

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Has anyone had any success interfacing a PIC to a USB Interface? USB II?
What USB chip sets are out there? Are they easy to use?
Who makes the USB chip sets?
Does microchip have any USB support for its PICs yet?

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2003\03\11@160644 by Ned Konz

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On Tuesday 11 March 2003 12:25 pm, Tim Webb wrote:
> Has anyone had any success interfacing a PIC to a USB Interface?
> USB II? What USB chip sets are out there? Are they easy to use?
> Who makes the USB chip sets?
> Does microchip have any USB support for its PICs yet?

I've just built a board that I am going to sell that has a USB
interface and a 18F452, using the FTDI 232BM chip.

Works fine, looks like serial to the PIC (and, optionally, to the
Windows/Linux/Mac that it's connected to).

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2003\03\11@161311 by Gavin Jackson

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Hi Ned

Care to share any invaluable sources of documentation you have
come across during your development. I'd like to look into
creating an interface for our products using USB so that it
appears as a mass storage device on the bus.

Regards

Gavin Jackson, R&D Software Engineer, Auckland, New Zealand

> {Original Message removed}

2003\03\11@163626 by Ned Konz

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On Tuesday 11 March 2003 01:12 pm, Gavin Jackson wrote:

> Care to share any invaluable sources of documentation you have
> come across during your development. I'd like to look into
> creating an interface for our products using USB so that it
> appears as a mass storage device on the bus.

Well, the mass storage interface is going to take custom code
somewhere.

You may want to look at beyondlogic.com for some USB information.

The FTDI chips look like a serial device, not like a mass storage
device.

Cypress have a microcontroller with USB controller on it; this is
being used several places that I've seen (like in my USB mouse that
has a CF card reader). I'm sure there are other USB micros.

> > {Original Message removed}

2003\03\11@171903 by Tony Nixon

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Gavin Jackson wrote:
>
> Hi Ned
>
> Care to share any invaluable sources of documentation you have
> come across during your development. I'd like to look into
> creating an interface for our products using USB so that it
> appears as a mass storage device on the bus.
>
> Regards

I've done a few projects using FTDI chips.

I've found that they are slightly slower than a standard serial port,
especially if you transfer single bytes. I guess this is because there
is some converting to do to create USB packets and the delays caused by
Windows to process them.

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Tony

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2003\03\11@172450 by Eric Schlaepfer

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Tim,

Take a look at the PIC16C745 or the PIC16C765.  It includes built-in USB
1.0 support (slow mode only).

Later,

Eric

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2003\03\11@175238 by Ned Konz

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On Tuesday 11 March 2003 02:16 pm, Tony Nixon wrote:
> Gavin Jackson wrote:
> > Hi Ned
> >
> > Care to share any invaluable sources of documentation you have
> > come across during your development. I'd like to look into
> > creating an interface for our products using USB so that it
> > appears as a mass storage device on the bus.
> >
> > Regards
>
> I've done a few projects using FTDI chips.
>
> I've found that they are slightly slower than a standard serial
> port, especially if you transfer single bytes. I guess this is
> because there is some converting to do to create USB packets and
> the delays caused by Windows to process them.

Yes. You *really* don't want to transfer single bytes with these. They
have an "event character" (by default, CR) that will force a packet
to be sent. Or wiggling the modem status lines will force a packet to
be sent.

So it's best to have a protocol that has a fixed delimiter
character...

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2003\03\11@180413 by Andrew Warren

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Tim Webb <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> Has anyone had any success interfacing a PIC to a USB Interface?
> USB II? What USB chip sets are out there? Are they easy to use? Who
> makes the USB chip sets? Does microchip have any USB support for
> its PICs yet?

Tim:

Microchip has a couple of PICs with USB support; that support is
limited to "low-speed" mode (1.5 Mbit/second, which sounds like a lot
but actually only allows about 800 bytes/second).

If you're just replacing RS-232 with USB, you might want to try the
FTDI chips; they replace the MAX232 on your board and include a host-
side driver to redirect your application's serial-port communication
to the USB port.  Data-transfer speeds are comparable to RS-232.

If you need higher speed or lower cost, or want something more than
an RS-232-to-USB "adaptor", Cypress Semiconductor has -- by far --
the broadest line of USB microcontrollers and fixed-function USB
interface ICs.  Info is at http://www.cypress.com .

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- KILLspamaiwKILLspamspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\03\11@181901 by Andrew Warren

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Gavin Jackson <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I'd like to look into creating an interface for our products using
> USB so that it appears as a mass storage device on the bus.

Gavin:

Windows 98 and later, and the Mac OS and recent distributions of
Linux, include a Mass Storage Class Driver that makes USB-connected
mass-storage devices look like any other drive; all you need is a USB
interface chip in your device that understands the Mass Storage
Class.  For some examples, take a look at Cypress Semiconductor's EZ-
USB AT2 and ISD-300A1 high-speed USB-to-ATA/ATAPI bridges, CY4611
high-speed USB-to-ATA/ATAPI Reference Design, and CY4610 full-speed
USB-to-ATA/ATAPI Reference Design.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- TakeThisOuTaiwEraseMEspamspam_OUTcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\03\11@184652 by Lyle Hazelwood

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>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew Warren" <aiwEraseMEspam.....CYPRESS.COM>
>To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 3:18 PM
>Subject: Re: USB Chip Sets


> Windows 98 and later, and the Mac OS and recent distributions of
> Linux, include a Mass Storage Class Driver that makes USB-connected
> mass-storage devices look like any other drive;

Slight correction:
The USB "Mass Storage Driver" is not native to WIN98(SE). There are
available drivers though, and they work fine once installed.
I use a USB Flash drive to carry my PIC source code back and forth
between my offices at work and home.
Very convenient!

Lyle

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2003\03\11@184908 by Charles Craft

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Aren't your required to add a "IMHO" or "My $.02" to this section of the reply. :-)


If you need higher speed or lower cost, or want something more than
an RS-232-to-USB "adaptor", Cypress Semiconductor has -- by far --
the broadest line of USB microcontrollers and fixed-function USB
interface ICs.  Info is at <a target=_blank
href="http://www.cypress.com">http://www.cypress.com</a> .

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- RemoveMEaiwspam_OUTspamKILLspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\03\11@211259 by Herbert Graf

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> If you're just replacing RS-232 with USB, you might want to try the
> FTDI chips; they replace the MAX232 on your board and include a host-

       Any way to get samples of these FTDI chips? Thanks, TTYL

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2003\03\11@211715 by Andrew Warren

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Charles Craft <PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> > Cypress Semiconductor has -- by far -- the broadest line of USB
> > microcontrollers and fixed-function USB interface ICs.
>
> Aren't your required to add a "IMHO" or "My $.02" to this section
> of the reply. :-)

   If it were merely an opinion, yes.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- spamBeGoneaiwSTOPspamspamEraseMEcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
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===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2003\03\11@213421 by Andrew Warren

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Herbert Graf <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> > If you're just replacing RS-232 with USB, you might want to try the
> > FTDI chips
>
> Any way to get samples of these FTDI chips?

   Not from me; I work for Cypress, not FTDI.  Try:

       http://www.ftdichip.com

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- @spam@aiw@spam@spamspam_OUTcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
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=== Opinions expressed above do not
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2003\03\12@041716 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The FTDI chips look like a serial device,
>not like a mass storage device.

Sure the default if you have no eeprom is serial port.

While the hardware interface of the "local" side of the chip is serial, I
believe that putting the appropriate information into the eeprom that you
can attach to the FT232 will cause the USB side to enumerate to the
operating system as anything you want.

As to the PIC-USB enabled chips, there is one, but it is not a Flash device,
so for development you need a windowed eprom device. IIRC they come in a 28
pin package, pin compatible to the 16F876 line, with the USB port on the
serial line pins. Never tried using them.

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2003\03\12@100614 by Ned Konz

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On Wednesday 12 March 2003 01:17 am, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
> >The FTDI chips look like a serial device,
> >not like a mass storage device.
>
> Sure the default if you have no eeprom is serial port.
>
> While the hardware interface of the "local" side of the chip is
> serial, I believe that putting the appropriate information into the
> eeprom that you can attach to the FT232 will cause the USB side to
> enumerate to the operating system as anything you want.

You can change the ID numbers and description string, but that isn't
going to change the actual operation of the device.

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2003\03\12@145856 by Micro Eng

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How much 'mass' storage?  They have those cute lil USB stick with 128M of
memory (flash I assume) now...




{Quote hidden}

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2003\03\12@150938 by Stef

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I've seen 1Gbyte already
Stef

Micro Eng wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\03\12@165819 by Brendan Moran

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Mass storage... Do you want an actual mass storage device?  Or are you
looking for a device that simply looks like one?  What I'm trying to say
is, that there may be another possibility or two if you're not committed to
USB.  I've found USB to be very taxing to work with.  It's doable, but IMHO
go with another option first.

On that subject, there's a pretty nifty article written in January's
edition of Circuit Cellar.  It's a 5-chip design (3 of which are a large
16-bit SRAM and required latches) that is an ATA-3 hard disk controller and
TCP/IP enabled device (I think ftp firmware is available)

Admittedly, it's not USB, and it doesn't use a PIC, but it still might fit
your bill.

Have a look:www.circuitcellar.com/library/print/0103/Eady150/index.htm
I think it's worth the read.

--Brendan


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