Post by thread:The PICLIST Fund FAQ

Frequently-Asked Questions regarding the PICLIST Fund ----------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is HUGE... How often are you going to be filling my mailbox with copies of it? Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then never again. The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the total list traffic. Why do we need the PICLIST Fund? The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since then. If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude. Lately, however, a number of issues have arisen: 1. The free MIT list-server that Jory has ben using may go away, necessitating a switch to a commercial server. 2. List-administration and -maintenance requirements have grown along with the PICLIST membership (currently, over 1000 people subscribe to the list), and Jory's old hardware is starting to become overloaded. 3. We'd all like to add new peripheral services to the PICLIST. An FTP site, web page, etc., would all be nice. The Fund exists in order to give list-members a way to donate money to the PICLIST. The Fund will be open for donations for six months, then it'll be closed and all the collected money will be given to Jory. Who's the custodian of the Fund? I am. Why you? Why not? Someone had to do it. I thought the PICLIST was free. Does this mean that we'll now have to pay money for access? NO! Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to. Donations are ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if you donate, and you won't lose any if you don't. No one will think any less of you if you choose not to contribute to the Fund, and if you don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's operational) will continue to be available to you for free, as it always has been. Jory has no intention of transforming the PICLIST into a fee-based service; the Fund has been set up for one-time voluntary donations only. What will the money be used for? I don't know yet, and neither does Jory... Until we have an idea of how much money there'll be, it doesn't make much sense to decide how to spend it. If you have any specific suggestions, however, please send them to me in private e-mail (Jory's busy enough already) and I'll pass them along to him. All we know right now is that we want to ensure that the PICLIST can survive without depending on the generosity of any one individual or corporation. If we can also expand the PICLIST to include auxiliary services like a list-member FTP site for distributing code samples, list archives, etc., that'd be great, too. One thing that you CAN be sure of is that ALL of the money will go to Jory... I'm donating the time and effort required to maintain the Fund; NO PORTION of the money is going to me. What if we donate our money and the list disappears anyway? Will there be any refunds? No. So how do we know that Jory won't just take the money and run? We don't. The money in the Fund will be given to Jory WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED, so there are NO GUARANTEES as to the use to which he'll put it. If this makes you uncomfortable, try to think of your donation as an expression of gratitude for information you've ALREADY received from the list. If you STILL feel uncomfortable, please don't donate. How do we know that YOU won't take the money and run? I guess you don't, really... But keep in mind that I run a business whose success depends largely on my personal reputation. It wouldn't make much sense for me to risk that reputation for a sum of money that I expect will amount to less than what my business generates every couple of weeks. To ensure that contributors can track their donations, I'll be doing the following: 1. Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a "contribution number" to it and notify the contributor in private e-mail that his donation has been received. 2. Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund activity. This summary will detail EVERY donation, including the contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise) each contributor's name. Also, I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund account is located... Just send me private e-mail. How do I donate to the Fund? I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for the PICLIST Fund. The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly, so if you'd like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't want to deal with cash or credit cards) to the following address: The PICLIST Fund c/o Fast Forward Engineering 1984 Casablanca Court Vista, CA 92083-5043 USA IMPORTANT: Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in order for any funds to be withdrawn from the account, so this shouldn't make anyone nervous. Please include your e-mail address with your check. If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the rest of the list is concerned), please include a note to that effect. Is my donation tax-deductible as a "charitable contribution to a non-profit organization"? No. For income-tax-reporting purposes, Jory will probably report it as "gift income". How much should I donate? The short answer is, "As much as you feel is appropriate." I've given some thought to this, though, and I've come up with some suggestions based on a three-tiered "contributor level": LEVEL: AMOUNT: EXPLANATION: --------------------------------------------------------------- FRIEND $10 If you're a Student, you should be able to (Student) afford $10. This is less than the cost of one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline, and it's not much more than the quantity-one retail price of a PIC16C84. FRIEND $30 If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job (Employed) should be able to afford $30. PATRON: $50 A decent programming reference book costs at least this much. If you've received as much useful information from the list as you might reasonably expect to find in the average textbook and want to show your gratitude, this is the way. GOD: $75 Many of us have actually profited financially from the list, either through help that other list-members gave us with our commercial products or through sales of development software and hardware that we've advertised on the list. If you fall into this category, a $75 donation shouldn't significantly affect your balance sheet. Note that contributing at a particular level doesn't actually MEAN anything... Sorry, but you won't receive a commemorative T-shirt or coffee mug even if you donate at the "God" level. I don't live in the USA. Can I contribute with a check drawn on funds other than US dollars? Yes. I have more questions about the Fund. Should I send them to Jory Bell? Probably not. Jory and I are in contact, but he's not involved in the day-to-day running of the Fund. It'd be best to send your questions to me IN PRIVATE E-MAIL. -Andy Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Andrew Warren wrote: > Why do we need the PICLIST Fund? > > The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been > operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since > then. If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know > that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make > the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe > him a huge debt of gratitude. Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list? If people want to send Jory money for what he's done, that fine, but I highly doubt it'll be enough to help him get all the items listed, and to keep it, the money will have to keep coming. Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice domain, and it would be quite appopriate if they did take over the list, that is, if they were willing. Philip Lalone Alpha-X Development

=== === === PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE === === PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL. === === === Philip Lalone <.....PICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to > dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list? Many people have offered, and Jory may decide to take one of those offers. In general, though, I think we'd all like to ensure that the survival of the list desn't rely on anyone's generosity. > If people want to send Jory money for what he's done, that fine, > but I highly doubt it'll be enough to help him get all the items > listed, and to keep it, the money will have to keep coming. Jory has no plans to make the list a fee-based service. It's interesting... I've received a lot of email already from people who are donating, and I don't think ANY of them have mentioned the new services that Jory might choose to add to the PICLIST. As I recall, all of them just thanked Jory for the work he's done so far. As I said in the Fund FAQ... If you don't feel that the Fund will make a difference, and you don't feel that you've already received enough from the PICLIST to warrant a donation, then please don't donate. > Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice domain, and it would be > quite appopriate if they did take over the list, that is, if they > were willing. It's important for the list to remain an independent forum... I don't think you'll find much support for the idea that it'd be "quite appropriate" for Microchip to "take over the list". There's already another internet mailing list devoted to PICs... But it's owned and moderated by a commercial vendor of PIC development toys (excuse me, I mean "development tools"). As a result, its content is nowhere NEAR as good as what's here on the PICLIST. -Andy Andrew Warren - fastfwdKILLspamix.netcom.com Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

In article <.....199609280746.AAA26412KILLspam.....dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>, Andrew Warren <EraseMEfastfwdspam_OUTTakeThisOuTIX.NETCOM.COM> writes > > Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then > never again. The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so > this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the > total list traffic. > I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote? sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate. Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa. Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully. Karel -- ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++ Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy khladkyspam_OUTkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/

Karel Hladky wrote: >I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify >starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower >traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote? >sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate. >Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to >keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa. >Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully. ========= NO! That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point. Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful input from list members. I also prefer having the discussions automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go retrieve them from a newsgroup. That's my $0.02 worth... Larry Griffin

In a message dated 96-11-03 07:48:13 EST, you write: >NO! That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point. >Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden >increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful >input from list members. I also prefer having the discussions >automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go >retrieve them from a newsgroup. That's my $0.02 worth... > >Larry Griffin I AGREE with Larry. That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture. Mark A. Corio Rochester MicroSystems, Inc. 200 Buell Road, Suite 9 Rochester, NY 14624 Tel: (716) 328-5850 --- Fax: (716) 328-1144 http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/ ***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

> > In article <@spam@199609280746.AAA26412KILLspamdfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>, Andrew Warren > <KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamIX.NETCOM.COM> writes > > > > Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then > > never again. The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so > > this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the > > total list traffic. > > > > I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify > starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower > traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote? > > sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate. > Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to > keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa. > Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully. I would certainly vote yes, perhaps the newsgroup comp.arch.embedded.pic may be more appropriate. Assuming that that group would get the same quantity of spam as c.a.e. That group seems to get comparatively little spam, a quick survey I did of the group, looking for spam gives a ratio of about 30 usefull : 5 spam : 5 not really the right group And it isn't even a moderated group. Going by these rules, the piclist is of lower signal/noise ratio than c.a.e I'd say make the group unmoderated, but in the RFC say that a cancelbot may be implemented in the future to eliminate excessive crossposts, similar to the bot on alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (which has a BIG problem with posts that should be in alt.fix.my.pc, not in a group for building computers with wire.) The benifit of it not being in alt is of course, you get the spam cancellers for free, as they do all of comp.* Plus, it would ease the load on the maintainer if more people took the list by news, and ensure that everybody knew of another place to access the list if anything untoward happened to it for whatever reason. > Karel > -- > ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++ > Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy > RemoveMEkhladkyTakeThisOuTkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/ > -- Ian Stirling. | http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie. | With information on the PDA I'm making.

Karel Hladky <spamBeGonekhladkyspamBeGoneKHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote: > I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify > starting a PICLIST newsgroup. This subject keeps coming up every few months. I, for one, don't want a newsgroup. 1. Traffic level doesn't seem like a particularly relevant criterion for changing things. You might just as convincingly argue that the PICLIST should be changed to a newsgroup because Microchip has many new PIC variants, or based on Microchip's stock performance. 2. It is easier to archive the PICLIST for future reference than it would be as a newsgroup. 3. News tends to expire extremely fast. The news server I use has a 4 Gigabyte enews spool, and it still expires things in days. Sometimes I'm unable to find time to read news that often. 4. News doesn't always propogate reliably. Often things expire at some intermediate site and never make it to some people. 5. News doesn't propogate as fast as email. Sometimes people answer questions on the PICLIST in only a few minutes. 6. I really don't want to read "Make Money Fast" spam all the time. 7. It really isn't that difficult for people that are interested to subscribe. But having at least a trivial entry barrier does act as somewhat of a "bozo filter". (Sorry if that sounds elitist.) 8. If you don't like getting the PICLIST mail in your normal mailbox, you can: A. subscribe in digest mode so you get the email batched into large messages B. arrange to have a separate mailbox just to PICLIST C. use procmail, which can sort your email based on regular expressions Cheers, Eric

> > Karel Hladky <TakeThisOuTkhladkyEraseMEspam_OUTKHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote: > > I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify > > starting a PICLIST newsgroup. > > This subject keeps coming up every few months. I, for one, don't want a > newsgroup. > > 1. Traffic level doesn't seem like a particularly relevant criterion > for changing things. You might just as convincingly argue that the Agree > 2. It is easier to archive the PICLIST for future reference than it would > be as a newsgroup. Hmm, depends on you'r software, for me news is probably marginally easier Of course if it's a newsgroup, you get free indexing and storage for up to a year (http://www.dejanews.com/) > 3. News tends to expire extremely fast. The news server I use has a > 4 Gigabyte enews spool, and it still expires things in days. Sometimes > I'm unable to find time to read news that often. news volume for usenet is frightning, my ISP has 21GB spool, which is only enough for 2 weeks for most, 1 week for binaries, and 2 days of warez > 4. News doesn't always propogate reliably. Often things expire at some > intermediate site and never make it to some people. This is not really a problem with a comp group, some alt groups yes, but if the group is carries by the majority of sites (as a legit new comp group would be) then propogation is not a problem > 5. News doesn't propogate as fast as email. Sometimes people answer questio > on the PICLIST in only a few minutes. Well, mail varies, as does news, most mail is probably faster than most news > 6. I really don't want to read "Make Money Fast" spam all the time. The cancelbots seem to be working, I found maybe 5 or 6 messages out of 400 or so in comp.arch.embedded > 7. It really isn't that difficult for people that are interested to subscribe. > But having at least a trivial entry barrier does act as somewhat of a > "bozo filter". (Sorry if that sounds elitist.) It does, but it also is usefull, the reterorobomoderator on alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt serves a similar function, in that it cncells postings from a new username, untill either they are added to the list by the maintainer, or the user puts PRR in the message to inform the robomod that they've read the posting rules. > > 8. If you don't like getting the PICLIST mail in your normal mailbox, you > can: > > A. subscribe in digest mode so you get the email batched into > large messages > > B. arrange to have a separate mailbox just to PICLIST I'd say few people have this option. > C. use procmail, which can sort your email based on regular > expressions An increasing number do not have this option either. > > Cheers, > Eric > -- Ian Stirling. | http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie. | With information on the PDA I'm making.

>>NO! That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point. >>Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden >>increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful >>input from list members. I also prefer having the discussions >>automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go >>retrieve them from a newsgroup. That's my $0.02 worth... >> >>Larry Griffin >I AGREE with Larry. That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture. >Mark A. Corio And I AGREE with Larry and Mark TOO. SET ******************************************************************************** Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - RemoveMEsalvadorTakeThisOuTinti.edu.ar Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE (Electronic Control & Instrumentation) Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina

In article <19961103214743.10047.qmailEraseME.....brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith <EraseMEericBROUHAHA.COM> writes >Karel Hladky <RemoveMEkhladkyEraseMEEraseMEKHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote: >> I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify >> starting a PICLIST newsgroup. > >This subject keeps coming up every few months. I, for one, don't want a >newsgroup. OK, just thought I'd ask. For me it makes no difference, my mail/news reader (Turnpike) treats lists as virtual newsgroups anyhow. As for archiving - is the list being archived at present ? Last time I looked (few months back) it didn't seem to be all that up to date. And the searches aren't exactly user friendly. Karel -- ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++ Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy RemoveMEkhladkyspam_OUTKILLspamkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/

Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) wrote: > > >>NO! That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point. > >>Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden > >>increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful > >>input from list members. I also prefer having the discussions > >>automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go > >>retrieve them from a newsgroup. That's my $0.02 worth... > >> > >>Larry Griffin > > >I AGREE with Larry. That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture. > > >Mark A. Corio > > And I AGREE with Larry and Mark TOO. > > SET > > ******************************************************************************* * > Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - RemoveMEsalvadorTakeThisOuTspaminti.edu.ar > Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE > (Electronic Control & Instrumentation) > Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina So do I... Gael