Searching \ for 'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/devices.htm?key=pic
Search entire site for: 'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'.

Truncated match.
PICList Thread
'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\09\26@023615 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

As many of you know, the PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory
Bell, who's been operating, maintaining, and (occasionally)
moderating it since then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing
lists, you know that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's
managed to make the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and
we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

There are now over 1,000 subscribers to the list, and it's becoming
increasingly difficult for Jory to run it with his existing equipment.
Last week, as you know, he even considered dissolving the list
because the error traffic generated by the list server had grown to
the point where it was overloading his 8-year-old Macintosh SE.

That short-term problem has been solved, at least temporarily, but
it's not hard to foresee further problems which might not be handled
so easily.  For example, MIT currently provides the list service for
free, but only because Jory once performed some consulting work for
the university.  Every so often, the university notifies Jory that
they're going to pull his free account, and he's only managed to keep
it THIS long through the assistance of an MIT faculty member who's
been lobbying on his behalf.

Sooner or later, though, the MIT account will go away and Jory will
be faced with the prospect of having to invest not only his time,
but a significant sum of money in order to keep the list running.

Here's the deal:

If we can collect some money for Jory, there'll be a greater chance
that he'll be able to keep the list running no matter what happens
with his MIT account.  If we collect enough, Jory may even be able
to set up a PICLIST web site, list-member FTP site, etc.

I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for this PICLIST
Fund.  The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly, so if you'd
like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't want to deal
with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

   The PICLIST Fund
   c/o Fast Forward Engineering
   1984 Casablanca Court
   Vista, CA  92083-5043
   USA

IMPORTANT:  Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory
           Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in order
           for any funds to be withdrawn from the account, so this
           shouldn't make anyone nervous.

           Please include your e-mail address with your check.

           If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the
           rest of the list is concerned), please include a note to
           that effect.

To ensure that everything is aboveboard, I'll be doing the following:

   1.  Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a "contribution
   number" to it and notify the contributor in private e-mail that
   his donation has been received.

   2.  Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund activity.
   This summary will detail EVERY donation, including the
   contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise) each
   contributor's name.

   3.  I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get
   in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund
   account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

At this time, I expect that we'll keep the account open for only six
months or so, then close it and send all the cash to Jory Bell.  If
we end up keeping the account longer (beyond the April 15th
income-tax deadline), we'll probably withdraw the appropriate tax
from the account.  ASIDE FROM THAT ONE POSSIBLE WITHDRAWAL, NO MONEY
WILL BE WITHDRAWN FOR ANY PURPOSE UNTIL THE ACCOUNT IS CLOSED.  I'm
going to be managing the fund on my own time; NO PORTION of your
donations will go to me.

Now, everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.  Donations are
ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if you
donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.  No one will think any
less of you if you choose not to contribute to the fund, and if you
don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's operational) will
continue to be available to you for free, as it always has been.

I've given some thought to "suggested donation amounts".  If you
want to contribute but don't think these amounts are appropriate,
please send whatever amount makes you comfortable (and, if you think
the following suggestions are WILDLY inappropriate, please let me
know in private e-mail).  Do give the following some thought,
though:

   SUGGESTED DONATION AMOUNTS:

   FRIEND           If you're a Student, you should be able to
   (Student):  $10  afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                    one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline,
                    and it's not much more than the quantity-one
                    retail price of a PIC16C84.

   FRIEND           If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job
   (Employed): $30  should be able to afford $30.

   PATRON:     $50  A decent programming reference book costs at
                    least this much.  If you've received as much
                    useful information from the list as you might
                    reasonably expect to find in the average
                    textbook and want to show your gratitude, this
                    is the way.

   GOD:        $75  Many of us have actually profited financially
                    from the list, either through help that other
                    list-members gave us with our commercial
                    products or through sales of development
                    software and hardware that we've advertised on
                    the list.  If you fall into this category, a $75
                    donation shouldn't significantly affect your
                    balance sheet.

ONE MORE IMPORTANT NOTE:

   I'm going to ensure that all the collected donations go directly
   to Jory Bell, but I'm making NO PROMISES as to the eventual use
   to which he puts it.  Even Jory doesn't yet know exactly what
   he'll spend the money on.

   In fact, Jory may decide to use the money to take a trip to
   Tahiti or something.  Personally, I don't care -- I figure that,
   after all the work he's put into the list, he DESERVES a vacation
   -- but if you're the type of person who wants to know PRECISELY
   what your dnation will be used for, this may be an issue.

   If that's the case, please send your suggestions for possible
   uses of the money to me in private e-mail.  I'll summaarize the
   suggestions I've received in my bi-weekly reports and, of
   course, pass them on to Jory.

I've tried to think of everything here, especially in the area of
assuring everyone that the PICLIST Fund will be managed honestly and
responsibly, but if you think I've omitted anything or if you have
any other suggestions, please feel free to tell me in private e-mail.

Remember:  Donations are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdTakeThisOuTspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\27@122606 by Steve Davidson

flavicon
face
Andrew, Jory, and List;

I will be glade to donate for the list and any trips Jory wants to take,
I find the list VERY VALUABLE....but, the direction seems a little soft.
How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local commercial
servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable if
Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be paid
some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I would
imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
control of any sort in doing so. With a thousand users you are talking
about a couple buck a year each, and the list has no obligations to
anyone.  i.e. it could switch servers if their is any problems.  By
taking donated money and buying hardware you will eventually end up in
some sort of a "disagreement" when changes need to be made.  Try to make
it a hands off type operation that can be easily passed on to others.  I
know in the DC area you can get your own web page, couple meg of storage,
internet connection and e-mail for $15 - 25 month.  I can check here in
the Boulder area, but I'm not much of a SA, so it would be best to find
something in Jory's  or Andrew's area.

This is a suggestion and I will be glade to donate on what ever the final
solution is.

You guys are doing great,

Steve



--- On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:40:01 -0800  Andrew Warren
<.....fastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------

-------------------------------------
E-mail: .....sdavidsonKILLspamspam.....its.bldrdoc.gov
Steven Davidson
Dept. of Comm.  NTIA-ITS.N2
325 Broadway
Boulder, CO  80303
W 303-497-3411  FAX 5995
-------------------------------------


'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\01@114145 by Andy Errington
flavicon
face
>From:  Steve Davidson[SMTP:EraseMEdavidsonspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTITS.BLDRDOC.GOV]
>Snip<
>How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local
>commercial
>servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
>storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable
>if
>Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be
>paid
>some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I
>would
>imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
>Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
>control of any sort in doing so.
>Snip<

Whilst I am appreciative of the PICLIST forum, where I have received
much help, and been able to give (I hope) some help I can't help
thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.  True they may
'moderate' (=censor) the list, but it is not really in their interest so
to do.

Parallax (makers of the BASIC Stamp, based on a Microchip PIC) support
and maintain the Stamp mailing list, so why not?

Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay him
to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants to).

Andy (the other one)
BTW I have five fingers on each hand, should I be on this list anyway?

1996\10\01@230240 by Louis A. Mamakos

flavicon
face
<c=GB%a=_%p=Lancaster_Univer%l=XENU-961001154020Z-2936spamspam_OUTxenu.lancs.ac.uk>> Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:01:12 -0400
Sender:
@spam@louieKILLspamspamTransSys.COM


Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
alien to me in this venue.

I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

I don't mean to speak out of turn here, especially since I'm just a
"lurker" on this list, but I've never run across this sort of thing
before.

louie

1996\10\02@003831 by Robert Lunn

flavicon
face
>Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>alien to me in this venue.

       Times change.

       The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
       structure.

>I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
>expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
>know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

       The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
       currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

       A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
       favours (ie no politics).

       Self-sufficiency is proposed.

___Bob

1996\10\02@005531 by Louis A. Mamakos

flavicon
face
> >Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
> >ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
> >help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
> >alien to me in this venue.
>
>         Times change.
>
>         The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
>         structure.

Yeah, and the two lists I run now are on my own machine, so what's
the point?  It's not as if a University if required to host a
mailing list.  This stuff is far from rocket science these days.

> >I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
> >expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
> >know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.
>
>         The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
>         currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

If I'm not mistaken, the mailing list is hosted on an IBM mainframe.  It's
just not clear to me what role Jory's machine plays in a simply automated
mailing list facility, and why it's on the critical path.

I understand that the administrators of the host may be unwilling to
continue to host the list, but I was surprised that the perceived solution
was to take up a collection rather than simply ask if anyone else was
willing to host the mailing list.

>         A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
>         favours (ie no politics).
>
>         Self-sufficiency is proposed.

I would think that someone in the community might be willing to host
the list - that's self-sufficiency.

Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection;
that's never happened in any of the discussion groups/mailing lists I've
been involved with in the past.  Usually if the list loses it's "home", a
simple query to the community/membership of the list usually brought
multiple offers out of the woodwork.

Perhaps things have changed.  I'll just go away now.

Louis Mamakos

1996\10\02@024505 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
   ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
   help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
   alien to me in this venue.

Well, things are different now.  In the old days network connections were
expensive and hard to get (DoD contract requried, etc), and so they were
shared by lots of people with lots of free time (read "students".)  And
while links were slow, there was lots more bandwidth than was being used.
Mailing lists were more or less invented at MIT, and then they started
multiplying.  The digest was invented when the traffic on SF-lovers got to
be "too much" due to the release of the first Star Trek film.  Human-Nets;
Info-micro; info-cpm; PD software collections maintained by the army at
White Sands Missile Range on 600Mb drives the size of a washing machine.
Requests would go out for modifications and improvements to OS software and
utilities for the ArpaNet hosts, but time and money were problems that had
already been solved, just to get THAT far.  Sigh.  The good old days.

Now of course, Internet is ubiquitous and cheap.  Anyone can get their own
account, the big machines with extra cycles are replaced by little machines
that are merely turned off, and companies start to worry about things like
exposure and liability.  The iconoclastic counterculture with the ability
will defend archives of near-pornography on free-speech and "annoy big
brother" grounds, and bandwidth-wasting gratuitous graphics on "we CAN do
it, so we MUST" grounds, but a moderately sized mailing list discussing a
somewhat obscure microcontroller has trouble finding a home.

On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
your $100k/year DoD contract...

BillW

1996\10\02@025117 by Robert Lunn

flavicon
face
>snip, snip, blah, blah...
>Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection...

       Andy's FAQ seems to cover the points you raise.

___Bob

1996\10\02@091214 by Christopher Zguris

picon face
At 11:43 PM 10/1/96 PDT, you wrote:
>    Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>    ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>    help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>    alien to me in this venue.
>
[SNIP]
>On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
>HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
>get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
>your $100k/year DoD contract...
>
>BillW
>

I have a mailing list running from world.std.com . It costs $5/month for the
account, and $5/month for the list. The admin nonsense is forwarded to this
account, and it works fine (for $20, you also get a web page). For $20/month
a shell account at Netcom (nationwide) gives the account owner up to 5 lists
for free. If _I_ can find a listprovider in NYC (where _nobody_ wants to run
one), it shouldn't be any big deal to find a provider elsewhere (or try
world.std.com - geographic location isn't really important. Telnet in, set
the .forward address, and done).

Chris

   ======================================================================
         Christopher Zguris  -  KILLspamczgurisKILLspamspaminterport.net  -  Uhhh, Ear?
                 1991 Honda VFR (Red, with red accessories)
          AMA, HSTA, CRVBMWR, HRCA, IVFROC, ex-Big Apple Vegetarian

                 I have known since I was very young that my
               purpose in life was to be Miss America. I have
                 lived my entire life with that idea in mind.
                   - Tara Dawn Holland, Miss America 1996
   ======================================================================

1996\10\02@122642 by Chuck McManis

flavicon
face
Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a
pentium
class machine running FreeBSD or Linux ? (about $800 here in the Silicon
Valley) Presumably bandwidth is an issue. I've heard the number "over 1000
subscribers." Looking at the mail volume clearly an ISDN class system would
be adequate, possibly even a 33.6Kb line.

What exactly is needed in terms of hardware and connectivity to adequately
support the PIC list? What sort of access does Jory need to the system?
(root? user? other?)

--Chuck

1996\10\02@182726 by Bernie Gordon

flavicon
face
At 12:54 AM 10/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You might as well discontinue the list instead of begging.

1996\10\03@023956 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Chuck McManis <RemoveMEcmcmanisTakeThisOuTspamFREEGATE.NET> wrote:

> Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a

Quite frankly, the notion of setting up a system solely to handle
the PICLIST is silly. The resources needed would barely
be noticed by even a very small Internet host. Disk space is
probably the most significant resource used (for archiving messages
etc.). Bandwidth is not an issue, with proper configuration, a 28.8K
link would be good up to about 5000 subscribers.

Having said that, I support the Fund idea, if only to reward Jory for his
work. But I see no reason why the continued operation of the list should
not depend on the kindness of strangers. There are plenty of people around
willing to make available spare resources - the hardest part will always
be getting one or more people to contribute their time to the administration
tasks.

At this point in time the most important thing to do is make a clear
statement that we want the list to continue - exactly how this will
happen can evolve over time. There's no major crisis right now - just
a few little ones.


--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
spamBeGoneclydespamBeGonespamhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.hitech.com.au | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For info on the World's best C cross compilers for embedded systems, point
your WWW browser at http://www.hitech.com.au, or email TakeThisOuTinfoEraseMEspamspam_OUThitech.com.au

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 1996 , 1997 only
- Today
- New search...