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PICList Thread
'The PICLIST Fund'
1996\10\01@215517 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I can't help thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.
> ....
> Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay
> him to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants
> to).

Other Andy:

The number-one rule for the PICLIST Fund is that donations are
COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.  This can't be stressed enough.

Please don't publicly exhort specific individuals or corporations to
donate; if you feel strongly that they should contribute to the Fund,
it'd be best to contact them privately.

Thanks.

-Andy (not the other one)

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\02@033957 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Louis A. Mamakos <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Louie:

First, please don't feel that your "lurker" status restricts your
right to voice your opinion on the Fund.  I may not have been clear
enough on this point when it came up a couple of weeks ago, but my
only issue with lurkers (and it's mine personally; it may not be
shared by anyone else) is that I don't think they should try to
change the list CONTENT by simply complaining about it... I'd much
prefer that they steer the list content by actually CONTRIBUTING.

While we're on the subject of list-content, you may have noticed that
each of my replies to publicly-posted questions about the Fund is
headed by a request to "Please send comments/questions about the Fund
to me in PRIVATE e-mail."  I'm not requesting private correspondence
in order to stifle anyone's free speech; my only intent is to avoid
cluttering this list with discussion that's not directly related to
PICs.

Note that I WILL respond publicly to any publicly-posted comments
about the Fund, but please consider sending any comments to me
privately unless you're sure that the 1000 list-members would
benefit from reading them.

Ok... Sorry for digressing.

What you (and, I suspect, other list-members) may not realize is that
we don't "have to" collect funds to support the list.  Jory's been
running the list without any financial support from list-members
since early 1994, and I'm sure that he'd want to continnue running it
even if it started to cost him money as well as his time.

Here's the thing, though:  Recent events have shown that there IS a
limit to what Jory can do with his existing time and equipment, and
-- while the potentially-disastrous "error traffic" problem has been
solved -- it's only going to get worse in the future.

If we can collect some money for Jory -- and remember, we're talking
about a relatively modest amount; we're not going to buy him a
mainframe and a T3 line -- he may be able to avert future crises.

Additionally, he might even add some peripheral services that the
list really needs.  Did you notice the recent discussion regarding
the distribution of large source-code files over the list?  With
enough cash to support an ftp site, he could provide a repository for
those files.

I've been on the list for about two years and I CONTINUALLY see the
same questions asked over and over.  Various people have tried to
deal with this -- Tom Kellett created the PIC FAQ, I put a "PIC
Questions and Answers" page on my company's web site, and lots of
other list members have made code fragments available from their own
web pages -- but the BEST solution would be to have a searchable
archive of the PICLIST available on a PICLIST-specific web page.

As you pointed out, many list-members are in a position to donate
their servers.  In fact, I've already received a number of generous
offers.  Even so, it'd be nice to have some money to support this;
the PICLIST archives are very large and the server owners would
certainly appreciate it if the PICLIST payed for its own disk space.

Also, web-page creation and maintenance is a time-consuming job --
those of you who've sent questions to my company's web page and
haven't yet received an answer already know this -- and it's
unreasonable to assume that Jory's magnanimity extends to performing
this thankless task.  If a PICLIST web-page were created, some of the
money collected by the Fund would probably go to a part-time
Webmaster.

You said, "I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm
involved in, and the expense is not the problem - it's finding the
time to do a good job.  I know that in my case, at least, money
wouldn't fix that problem."

Your premise -- that lack of time is the primary impediment to
running a large list -- is certainly true.  However, your conclusion
may not be so accurate.  Most of a list-owner's time is spent doing
mechanical, repetitive tasks.  Money from the Fund could be used to
hire part-time help, to buy hardware and/or software that might
automate those tasks, or even to make Jory feel better about spending
his own time on them.

As I've been stressing, contributions are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY, and
there's NO GUARANTEE that Jory will do anything specific with the
money we collect.

Nevertheless, over two dozen PICLIST members (including long-time
contributors, new members, and confirmed lurkers) have already sent
me e-mail announcing their intention to contribute, and the checks
have already started coming in.

They'd all appreciate it if Jory decided to use the money to really
improve the list in the future, but most of those people are
contributing because they want to thank Jory for the work he's
ALREADY done.

Oh, by the way... Please don't send comments about the Fund to Jory;
he really has nothing to do with it and he's busy enough already.

If it makes a difference to anyone, you should know that Jory never
asked for any money; the Fund was entirely my idea.  If you have
problems with the concept of collecting vountary contributions for
Jory, PLEASE direct them to me in private e-mail; Jory's the kind of
guy who'd want to reply to any e-mails that he received, and I'm sure
that the last thing any of us want to do is to take up more of his
time.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\02@141600 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Chuck McManis <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Chuck:

I understand your (and others') interest in trying to work out
precise technical solutions to the list's problems -- we're all
engineers, after all -- but I'm afraid that we're getting a little
sidetracked here.

The Fund has just started; I don't think it makes sense to speculate
about what the money'll be spent on until we at least know
approximately how much money there'll be.  I know that everyone here
wants to help out with specific suggestions, but Jory probably won't
be thinking seriously about all this for at least another month or
so.

I hate to keep repeating this, but in order to avoid any potential
misunderstandings and arguments later, I have to:

The money collected by the Fund will be donated to Jory to use as he
pleases... There's no guarantee (although there's a strong
expectation) that he'll even spend it on the PICLIST at all.  None of
the people who've already contributed has a problem with this, but
anyone who DOES shouldn't donate.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\03@161745 by Cobus deBeer

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I can't help thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.
> ....
> Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay
> him to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants
> to).

Other Andy:

The number-one rule for the PICLIST Fund is that donations are
COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.  This can't be stressed enough.

Please don't publicly exhort specific individuals or corporations to
donate; if you feel strongly that they should contribute to the Fund,
it'd be best to contact them privately.

Thanks.

-Andy (not the other one)

Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

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