Post by thread:TIP - ZIF socket

>>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ? Could someone, please, help me to identify which one of the many sockets I know are you refering to. Thank you {Quote hidden}> >I do the same but in reverse order: I can not fit the pins of cheap sockets >into the more expensive turned ones, so the chip goes into the turned >pin socket and the PCB gets a cheap socket. > >We do the same at the local young engineers club - and you can imagine >that those chips are pushed in and ripped out constantly! > >regards, >Wouter. > > Best wishes Eduardo R AC Power Control project based on PIC http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Cove/4535 ICQ# 10909825 spam_OUTeriveraTakeThisOuTumemphis.campus.mci.net CHILDHOOD CANCER "Anyone whose family hasn't been touched by it should get down on his knees every night and thank the MAN upstairs"...........SAM COOPER

"Eduardo R." wrote: > > >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ? > > Could someone, please, help me to identify which one of the many sockets I > know are you refering to. > > Thank you > I call them "Tulip" type sockets (don't ask me why , maybe the pins looks like a Tulip flower? ) It is the ones with the round sockets and pins. Quentin

This type of sockets is also commonly refered to as "machine pin" sockets. Corey Drechsler Quentin wrote: {Quote hidden}> > "Eduardo R." wrote: > > > > >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ? > > > > Could someone, please, help me to identify which one of the many sockets I > > know are you refering to. > > > > Thank you > > > I call them "Tulip" type sockets (don't ask me why , maybe the pins > looks like a Tulip flower? ) > It is the ones with the round sockets and pins. > > Quentin

Turned pin IC Sockets are generaly lower profile than the cheaper type which can be an issue in some designs. Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket. Their worst aspect is that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily. You generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal. Thing to do is always use an IC extractor, or use a screwdriver to carefully lever the socket up from both ends. There's always a strong temptation to just use your fingers when no suitable tool is to hand and bent/broken pins result 99% of the time. Mike Rigby-Jones .....mrjonesKILLspam@spam@nortelnetworks.com {Quote hidden}> ---------- > From: Sam Powell[SMTP:spwebKILLspamGLOBALNET.CO.UK] > Sent: 27 January 1999 21:17 > To: .....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: TIP - ZIF socket > > If you meant what does it look like... > > Its like a normal Dual inline except from top down there are not 'slits' > in > the sides but instead circular holes for the chips to be plugged into... > Personally I dont know why their so good... > > > {Original Message removed}

I have found a Digi-Key part which I think they call Low Insertion Fource Socket. On the top it has little plastic rails that when pushed down, spread the pins inside the socket so that you can insert your PIC with little effort. There are two nice things about these sockets. First they are cheaper than the ZIF sockets. Second the pins on the bottom are very similar to DIP pins. I soldered ZIF sockets into my programmer, but I use this one LIF socket in my projects. I just plug the LIF into the socket that will eventually receive the PIC, and use it for the debugging cycle. When the debugging is done, I pull the LIF and plug the PIC in its place. Right now I have it on my protoboard while I debug my SIMM data logger. Later Pherd

|Turned pin IC Sockets are generaly lower profile than the cheaper type which |can be an issue in some designs. |Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a |turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket. Their worst aspect is |that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily. If a new chip is carefully placed into a new machine pin socket, the pins will actually form gas-tight connections with the socket and the resulting assembly is quite robust. After a chip and/or socket is used for awhile, though, the metal can start to fatigue and the connections are no longer as robust. For micros going into harsh environments, where the code is not likely to change, a machine-pin socket is the way to go. For ap- plications where more frequent insertion is expected, quality dou- ble leaf-spring sockets will be reliable longer. When doing development on a board which will eventually be sitting in a harsh environment (with no further code changes expected) it may be a good idea to place a machine socket on the board and then place into that either another machine-pin socket or an Aries(R) ZIF socket. Once development is complete, the second socket can be removed and the chip placed in the bottom one (where it will only be the second device the socket ever contained--so the socket should be good).

> >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ? > > Could someone, please, help me to identify which one of the many sockets I > know are you refering to. In the local electronics shop and mail order outlet only two types of sockest are sold: cheap ones have more or less flat pins (which can easlily bend), the more expensive ones have round pins (which do not bend but can break if you are persistent). Does this help? Wouter.

<w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman writes> >> >>I then use good quality turned pin sockets on the >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I am trying to figure how does the popular turned pin socket look like ? >> >> Could someone, please, help me to identify which one of the many >sockets I >> know are you refering to. > >In the local electronics shop and mail order outlet only two types of >sockest are sold: >cheap ones have more or less flat pins (which can easlily bend), the more >expensive These are "leaf action" or "wiper" sockets. The connections are not very gas tight and they don't hold the IC very tightly. Good for repeated insertions though. >ones have round pins (which do not bend but can break if you are >persistent). Those are the "turned pin" or "machined" sockets you are looking for. They hold the IC very tightly and make a good gas tight seal. Not good for repeated insertions. Cheers, Win Wiencke Image Logic Corporation EraseMEImageLogicspam_OUTTakeThisOuTibm.net

Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: > [...] > > Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a > turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket. Their worst aspect is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree! > that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily. You > generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there > is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal. Thing If you really need to repair one of this sockets you better remove the pin by heating it with a soldering iron and then quickly pressing it through the hole in the plastic. Then you can insert an intact pin from another socket (which you can get the same way) btw: single pins can be very useful to make sockets for exotic parts... > to do is always use an IC extractor, or use a screwdriver to carefully lever > the socket up from both ends. There's always a strong temptation to just > use your fingers when no suitable tool is to hand and bent/broken pins > result 99% of the time. you have to apply as much pressure as possible on the upper socket with your fingers. Then this decreases to ~5% <g> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a medical tool which looks (a bit) like this: (...) (...) X XX X XOOX _XX_ / \ / \ | | \_ _/ (I always wonder how they do this fancy ASCII art...) Stefan Sayer sayerspam_OUTgmx.de > > Mike Rigby-Jones > @spam@mrjonesKILLspamnortelnetworks.com >

>> Personally, for repeated insertions I find the best thing to plug into a >> turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket. Their worst aspect is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree! >> that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily. You >> generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there >> is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal. Thing Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times. Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for development work, and it works well enough in production and long term, that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around. I'll use them maybe on an emulator pod as sacrificial pins.

On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 07:52:41PM -0500, dave vanhorn wrote: > Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times. > Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for > development work, and it works well enough in production and long term, > that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around. C'mon. They're prettier, more expensive and give the appearance of precision engineering. What more do you need? :-) Seriously, I've also had a lot of trouble with them disintegrating after a small bend in the pins. Another problem I've had (related to the topic of this thread) is the pins pushing up through the plastic when you try to stack them into a tight socket below. And this is with Mil-Max sockets. This really can't happen with the side-wipe sockets. You can get a whole cabinet full of 300 generic side-wipe sockets of various sizes from Jameco for $35, which works out to like 12 cents per socket if you ignore the cabinet. The main thing I like the machined pin sockets for is wire-wrap. I don't know that you can get any other kind of wire-wrap socket. I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough. --Bob -- ============================================================ Bob Drzyzgula It's not a problem KILLspambobKILLspamdrzyzgula.org until something bad happens ============================================================

At 07:52 PM 1/28/99 -0500, dave vanhorn wrote: >Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times. >Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for >development work, and it works well enough in production and long term, >that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around. > >I'll use them maybe on an emulator pod as sacrificial pins. > > Ever use the sidewipe type in an automotive application? We had a situation where a tech installed a sidewipe socket on a board that was to be in a race car, a place were "good enough" isn't. The processor fell out. Fortunately this was a "for fun" project, otherwise it could've been ugly. That particular board still has a sidewipe socket, but the PIC is held in place with a cable tie. My boss told me how they qualified sockets in the video game industry: they put 'em on a board mounted to a shaker. If the chip fell out in a certain period of time, it was a no-go. Another problem with sidewipe sockets is the chips will creep out due to thermal expansion. Go find an old video game or any other machine that's had a lot of thermal cycles in its life, and go through the board and push the chips back into their sockets. You'll be surprised. -Keith Wheeler Firmware Engineer ARMA Design http://www.ARMAnet.com/

>The main thing I like the machined pin sockets for is >wire-wrap. I don't know that you can get any other kind of >wire-wrap socket. I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets >for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin >sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough. You can always plug a sidewipe into your ww socket so you get sockets that last :) I imagine amp makes them for anything with pins, but 28 narrows are probably not popular shelf stock.

>Ever use the sidewipe type in an automotive application? We had >a situation where a tech installed a sidewipe socket on a board >that was to be in a race car, a place were "good enough" isn't. >The processor fell out. Fortunately this was a "for fun" project, >otherwise it could've been ugly. That particular board still has >a sidewipe socket, but the PIC is held in place with a cable tie. I don't do high vibration, My stuff sits on a desk for years. It does get shipped tran-pac by barge, but no problems so far. I've been known to take a pallet of terminals and shove them off the third-floor loading dock to check the packaging though. >Another problem with sidewipe sockets is the chips will creep >out due to thermal expansion. Go find an old video game or >any other machine that's had a lot of thermal cycles in its life, >and go through the board and push the chips back into their >sockets. You'll be surprised. This, I should have run into in 10 years and 5M systems, but I haven't seen it yet. Some of our oldest systems had eproms mounted on the bottom of the board as well, which would of course tend to fall out. I donno, I just pass on my experience FWIW.

>Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times. >Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for >development work, and it works well enough in production and long term, >that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around. I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period. They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived. One great place for machined pin sockets is on home made double sided PC boards without plated through holes. It is very easy to solder the pins to the top side pads because of the clearance between the socket body and the board. Almost no other socket works as well for this application. Another great use for machined pin sockets is for little test jigs that you want to connect to your breadboards with 24 AWG telephone wire. I keep a bunch of 25 and 50 pair 24 guage telco wire around to make all the little jumpers I use in the solderless breadboards. You know what I'm talking about - the stuff that used to be used for old PABX phone systems. It just so happens that those pins are a perfect fit to that wire. dwayne Dwayne Reid <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (403) 489-3199 voice (403) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

Bob Drzyzgula wrote: >I also haven't noticed side-wipe sockets >for the PIC16C76, which needs the skinny 0.3" wide 28-pin >sockets. But I may just not have looked hard enough. I just use 2 - 14 pin AMP diplomate sockets stacked end to end. Many thousands of them out there in the cold, abusive world and all working just fine! dwayne Dwayne Reid <spamBeGonedwaynerspamBeGoneplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (403) 489-3199 voice (403) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

>I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is >talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period. >They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being >exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived. Ont thing though, I did run into some honest-to-god counterfits. They looked great, but when you applied solder and heat, that silver coating peeled back and revealed a black pin that wouldn't accept solder with a $50 bribe. I still check sockets before installing them by heating a pin and watching it.

Stefan Sayer wrote: > Michael Rigby-Jones wrote: > > > turned pin socket is...another turned pin socket. Their worst aspect is > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree! > > that the metal they are made from seems to fatigue very easily. You > > generaly get ONE chance at straightening a bent pin(s) and even then there > > is a danger of leaving a pin in the PCB socket on the next removal. Thing Common misconception. When you bend the round pin, you stretch the outer side (you don't really compress the inside much at all..) and when you then 'straighten' it, you are mainly stretching the inner side to equal it. If you bend both 90 deg, the flat pin's outer side stretches much less and is stretched less when you straightened it. YOU weakened the round pin a lot more, because i t took a lot more energy to bend it X deg and then straighten it. Stands to reaso n, you know it took a lot more effort on the pliers when you straightened the round pin vs a flat one.. Similar to why a solid rod is not as strong as a hollow tub e the same diameter with the right wall thickness.

>>I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is >>talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period. >>They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being >>exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived. > >Ont thing though, I did run into some honest-to-god counterfits. They >looked great, but when you applied solder and heat, that silver coating >peeled back and revealed a black pin that wouldn't accept solder with a $50 >bribe. I still check sockets before installing them by heating a pin and >watching it. Thanks for the heads-up, Dave! Any idea where you purchased them from? So far, we've been lucky. Our suppliers are honest-to-goodness AMP distributers (FAI, I think) and I haven't been told of any problems to date. dwayne Dwayne Reid <TakeThisOuTdwaynerEraseMEspam_OUTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (403) 489-3199 voice (403) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

>Thanks for the heads-up, Dave! Any idea where you purchased them from? So >far, we've been lucky. Our suppliers are honest-to-goodness AMP >distributers (FAI, I think) and I haven't been told of any problems to date. It's been a long time. I just wanted to warn about the possibility. They said AMP on them, but I don't believe they came from amp for a minute. They werent tinned, although they looked it. They were plated.

>>Screw machine sockets are good, if you won't use them too many times. >>Paradoxically, the good old AMP sidewipe is the most reliable for >>development work, and it works well enough in production and long term, >>that I'm not sure why the screw machine ones are still around. > >I have found the AMP 'diplomate' IC sockets (the 'sidewipe' sockets Dave is >talking about, above) to be the most reliable socket for production, period. >They continue to maintain a low resistance connection even after being >exposed to H2S (hydrogen sulfide) - no other socket I have tried has survived. I have had total success with AMP Diplomate sockets in small volume production in applications where you usually put an IC in once and ;eave it there (until; it dies or you MUST remove it to trouble-shoot a problem) - I would recommend them happily. Machine screw sockets are especially useful in my experience where alimited number of insertion/removal cycles are required. I too use them as sockets for prototyping to protect the removable cpu - MC socket on IC plugging into eg diplomate seems to work well. regards Russell McMahon

Stefan Sayer wrote: > btw: single pins can be very useful to make sockets for exotic > parts... I scored a small quantity of machined-pin sockets with no insulator. They come on a carrier which is plugged into the pins when supplied. The assembly is placed into the PCB, soldered in place, then the carrier removed and the IC inserted. For soldering the top on non plated-through boards these are the *best*, for obvious reason. Also for ultra-high input impedance op-amps and the like. {Quote hidden}> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a medical tool > which looks (a bit) like this: > > (...) (...) > X XX X > XOOX > _XX_ > / \ > / \ > | | > \_ _/ That's a mean-looking thing. I don't quite recognise it! (;-) -- Cheers, Paul B.

At 12:49 AM 1/30/99 +1000, you wrote: > >> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a medical tool >> which looks (a bit) like this: >> >> (...) (...) >> X XX X >> XOOX >> _XX_ >> / \ >> / \ >> | | >> \_ _/ > > That's a mean-looking thing. I don't quite recognise it! (;-) Wow, it sure is mean lookin! I hope nobody uses that on me anytime soon. Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence except fro the apparent scizzors action? Sean >-- > Cheers, > Paul B. > +---------------*----------------+ | Sean Breheny | | Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM | | Electrical Engineering Student | +---------------*----------------+ Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7 RemoveMEshb7TakeThisOuTcornell.edu Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315 ICQ #: 3329174

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, dave vanhorn wrote: > It's been a long time. I just wanted to warn about the possibility. They > said AMP on them, but I don't believe they came from amp for a minute. They > werent tinned, although they looked it. They were plated. I was given several tubes of these a few years ago. Evil! -bob

>> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a >> medical tool which looks (a bit) like this: >> >> (...) (...) >> X XX X >> XOOX >> _XX_ >> / \ >> / \ >> | | >> \_ _/ > Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence > except fro the apparent scizzors action? I think forceps would be the right English term. Lee Jones

Lee Jones (and others) wrote: > >> Or use a 'Backhaus' (I don't know the English name), a > >> medical tool which looks (a bit) like this: > >> > >> (...) (...) > >> X XX X > >> XOOX > >> _XX_ > >> / \ > >> / \ > >> | | > >> \_ _/ > > Perhaps he means a hemostat, although there is little resemblence > > except fro the apparent scizzors action? > I think forceps would be the right English term. No it definitely is not an artery forcep! On consideration, it looks most like a towel clip, which is designed to hold at one point but clear teh bulk of the material. The ones we currently use though have oblique toothed jaws which would be rather difficult to place under and IC and lift. The older ones have single points and the same applies. I can think of no medical instrument with the flat blades of a purpose-made IC puller though there may well be some orthopaedic (bone) instruments of which I am unaware. -- Cheers, Paul B.