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PICList Thread
'Serial, In-circuit programming'
1996\12\10@042558 by Gregg Kricorissian

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Dear PIC'ers

As usual I have this problem ... I haven't seen anything written about
serial in-circuit programming of the 16LC84, aside from the little bit in
the data book on page 52.  I hadn't paid much attention to it until
recently; that is, now that I know I have to use an SOIC package device in
the final product design.

I see in-circuit programming to be very advantageous, since it will allow us
to load a routine for hardware verification during manufacturing test, and
then re-program the 16LC84 with the operating code ... all without
disturbing the hardware.

Trouble is I can't find anything in my MPLAB or Picstart PLus manuals (or
the Microchip CD) about considerations for in-circuit programming: neither
how one should size the isolating resistors shown on page 52, nor the
availablilty of a commercial serial programmer.  Is it one of those things
that's "left as an exercise for the reader", or is there a product already
available to do the job?

Because of time constraints, I'd rather buy than build one, but building is
still do-able.  Perhaps it's nothing more than building a driver/buffer
stage between my Picstart and the application circuit?  Does anyone out
there have any good pointers for in-cicuit programming?

Many thanks,
... Gregg

1996\12\10@070150 by Jim Robertson

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At 04:10 AM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear PIC'ers
>
>As usual I have this problem ... I haven't seen anything written about
>serial in-circuit programming of the 16LC84, aside from the little bit in
>the data book on page 52.  I hadn't paid much attention to it until
>recently; that is, now that I know I have to use an SOIC package device in
>the final product design.


Snip...

{Quote hidden}

Gregg,

It is starting to be a little dated now, but you can download the
documentation for my PP1 programmer. It has a chapter on ISP and what I
know about it back then. You may find the knowledge contained of value,
then again you might not....

It is in the FTP section of my web grossly neglected web site at.

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~newfound

Feel free to pick my brians (within reason) or even to buy one of my
programmers (says me very squeamishly...) :-)


Regards,

Jim

1996\12\10@122617 by John Payson

picon face
> As usual I have this problem ... I haven't seen anything written about
> serial in-circuit programming of the 16LC84, aside from the little bit in
> the data book on page 52.  I hadn't paid much attention to it until
> recently; that is, now that I know I have to use an SOIC package device in
> the final product design.

In-circuit programming is wonderful, if you are aware of its constraints.

> I see in-circuit programming to be very advantageous, since it will allow us
> to load a routine for hardware verification during manufacturing test, and
> then re-program the 16LC84 with the operating code ... all without
> disturbing the hardware.

Great for debugging (before and after production) too...

> Trouble is I can't find anything in my MPLAB or Picstart PLus manuals (or
> the Microchip CD) about considerations for in-circuit programming: neither
> how one should size the isolating resistors shown on page 52, nor the
> availablilty of a commercial serial programmer.  Is it one of those things
> that's "left as an exercise for the reader", or is there a product already
> available to do the job?

I don't know about commercial serial programmers; I know I've built two of
my own, and incorporated circuitry directly onto the boards for a couple
other products.  As for software, I'm afraid I don't know; my good stuff I
developed for work, and I don't know if I can give it away.

As for the isolation resistors, that really depends upon your application;
if you are using RB6 and RB7 for output only, you can skip the resistors
entirely (though you need to ensure that whatever they control won't "mind"
if these mins have signals on them during programming).  If they are inputs
only, the resistors can be large, subject only to the constraint that large
values may slow down the response of the port.  The final caveat to consider
is that if the PC is to be left connected you may want to have it wired so
as to be able to "tri-state" itself from those two pins or else use a relay
on your programmer to disconnect those pins entirely.

> Because of time constraints, I'd rather buy than build one, but building is
> still do-able.  Perhaps it's nothing more than building a driver/buffer
> stage between my Picstart and the application circuit?  Does anyone out
> there have any good pointers for in-cicuit programming?

I wouldn't be surprised if the PicStart could handle ISP'ing easily; I've
never done it.  One concern I'd have regarding your application, however,
is that I'd suggest if possible using RB6 and RB7 for outputs only (or else
for nothing at all) and putting moderately large (e.g. 47K) resistors in
series with the RB6 and RB7 wires.  Since you're using the LC part, it sounds
as if your voltage won't always be at a nice even +5; when programming, you
should have VDD at +5, but you should also verify your part at whatever volt-
age it will be running in the "real world".

1996\12\10@131236 by Alberto Alonso (Albund)

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In message <spam_OUT2.2.32.19961210091040.00a49eecTakeThisOuTspamalfred.ccs.carleton.ca>, grkricor@cc
s.carleton.ca writes:
>Dear PIC'ers
>

[Deleted stuff]

>Because of time constraints, I'd rather buy than build one, but building is
>still do-able.  Perhaps it's nothing more than building a driver/buffer
>stage between my Picstart and the application circuit?  Does anyone out
>there have any good pointers for in-cicuit programming?
>
>Many thanks,
>... Gregg

I'm currently developing a serial programmer. The following will be some
of its features:

* Still the power from the computer. (No damm adaptor needed).
* Connects to the serial port.
* Smallest desing posible. I'm trying to fit it into the D-sub case.
* Modularity. Have the posibility of connecting a 5 pin cable or
adaptors with ZIF sockets.
* Production quality. Verify the PIC for all ranges of voltages (this is
just a wish which probably won't be able to do, at least on the size
that I want).
* RS232 comm capabilities? I was planning on using a MAX232 chip to
handle serial communications using pins B6 and B7 (since most of my
applications use the computer for communications). This might be
implemented in a module due to size constraints.
* Free??? My design will probably be free. I will plan on selling the
kits to put it together or just sell the board (this depends on whether
there is enough interest to send it to a production place).

Anyway, the desing should be complited by mid Jan or Feb. Let me know if
you guys are interested since that would make me do it faster and also
how many of you would like to purchase at least the board (so that I
send it to a production place).

Cheers,

Alberto

1996\12\11@083754 by Jens Dyekjfr Madsen
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Alberto Alonso (Albund) wrote:
>
> In message <.....2.2.32.19961210091040.00a49eecKILLspamspam@spam@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca>,> grkricor@cc
{Quote hidden}

Take a look at
  http://www.ebar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm
or
  http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm

Programmer is not production quality. But it meets RS232 standards.
Vpp is 13V and Vcc is stable at 5.1V during read/program.

Regards,
Jens

1996\12\11@094934 by Jens Dyekjfr Madsen

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Gregg Kricorissian wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Take a look at
  http://www.ebar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm
or
  http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm

Programmer is not production quality. But it meets RS232 levels.
Programming voltage is 13V and Vcc is 5.1V during program/read.

Regards,
Jens Dyekjfr Madsen

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