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'Re[2]: C Compiler'
1996\11\05@113217 by Scott Walsh

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    Well on the same code from before, here is the result of the MPLABC
    Demo version!

    It uses 14 words of ROM.

    regards,
    Scott.
    =====================================================================

                                      void main()
                                      {

                                      /* Variables local to main */
    0026                              char a;
    0027                              short int b;

    0005 3001    MOVLW  01h                   if ( a == 1 ||  a == 2)
    0006 1283    BCF    03,5
    0007 0226    SUBWF  26,W
    0008 1903    BTFSC  03,2
    0009 280F    GOTO   000Fh
    000A 3002    MOVLW  02h
    000B 1283    BCF    03,5
    000C 0226    SUBWF  26,W
    000D 1D03    BTFSS  03,2
    000E 2812    GOTO   0012h
    000F 1283    BCF    03,5                      b = 0;
    0010 01A7    CLRF   27
    0011 2815    GOTO   0015h                 else b = 1;
    0012 3001    MOVLW  01h
    0013 1283    BCF    03,5
    0014 00A7    MOVWF  27
    0015 0008    RETURN               }


'Re[2]: C compiler'
1997\08\06@033427 by Dag Stle Bakken
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> I guess, if you plan to hack with it, it may be fun enjoy it.  But if you
> really plan to do something serious and you don't like asm you should get
> a bug free C compiler. MChips mplabc sounds worse than ccs. It may be
> better idea to develop C based program for a different micro.

I wouldn't know if this statement about CCS is true, but to say that it's
better to use another controller for C-based programs is totally wrong.
There are C-compilers available for PICmicros that are "bug-free".

-Dag

1997\08\06@033433 by Dag Stle Bakken

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>> I guess, if you plan to hack with it, it may be fun enjoy it. But if you
>> really plan to do something serious and you don't like asm you should get
>> a bug free C compiler. MChips mplabc sounds worse than ccs...

> I believe both the mentioned bugs were corrected. CCS always responds in a
> timely manner to bug reports. No matter which compiler you use you
> absolutely must look at the assembly output to see what the compiler has
> wrought, and you must understand what the compiler is going to do with your
> code.

With a good C-compiler, you will not have to look at the asm output (of
course), and that good compilers exists.


-Dag

1997\08\06@041420 by blunn

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Bob Lunn
08/06/97 06:12 PM


> There are C-compilers available for PICmicros that are "bug-free".

    Hmm, even allowing for the quote marks this is a dangerous assertion.

    Proving the correctness of anything as complicated as a compiler is
    a daunting undertaking.  If any supplier of a Pic 'C' compiler is
prepared
    to prove its correctness, I would be very interested in hearing it.

___Bob

1997\08\06@081857 by Mike Smith

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---Original Message-----
From: spam_OUTblunnTakeThisOuTspamKEYCORP.COM.AU <.....blunnKILLspamspam@spam@KEYCORP.COM.AU>
To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, 6 August 1997 17:45
Subject: Re: Re[2]: C compiler



{Quote hidden}

That statement raised my eyebrows, too.

Two additions.
1 - you don't need to qualify it with Pic C compiler.  Any C compiler would
be included in your statement.
2 - you can't prove such a thing.  Disprove it, yes.  Even validation suites
can only disprove.

MikeS
<EraseMEmikesmith_ozspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTrelaymail.net>

1997\08\06@104048 by James Musselman

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We just completed our first project with the HiTech compiler for the
PIC16C73A.
The HiTech compiler had 0 install problems and 0 compilation/user problems.
It worked extremely well.  There was no need to ask for emergency "bug
fixes".

"Bug free"is a little exaggerated of a statement.  Perhaps the same
comments could be
said of assemblers, and maybe of all software that does anything
significant?  Maybe
we should lay-out PCBs by hand because the CAD software has bugs?  (Note: I
do not say
"might"have bugs).

We have extensively used the Bytecraft C compiler through version 2.07bbs
and
have also used the new HiTech C compiler v7.70 PL1 CDROM release.  The
MicroChip MPLAB-C was based on an older version of the Bytecraft compiler
that is known to have MANY bugs.  Shame on Microchip for distributing it!


James


----------
{Quote hidden}

assertion.
>
>      Proving the correctness of anything as complicated as a compiler is
>      a daunting undertaking.  If any supplier of a Pic 'C' compiler is
> prepared
>      to prove its correctness, I would be very interested in hearing it.
>
> ___Bob

1997\08\06@105335 by Walter Banks

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> I wouldn't know if this statement is true, but to say that it's
> better to use another controller for C-based programs is totally wrong.
> There are C-compilers available for PICmicros that are "bug-free".


I have been following this thread with considerable interest. The
compiler developers are faced with several major issues related to
bugs, features and optimization.  When we are aggressive with our
optimization then the likelihood of bugs increases. The same is
true with features. Bugs are induced in the compilers when we
change implementation strategies on new processors or processors
where there is not a large body of big completed applications to
understand the subtle issues. The early MPC development saw
a lot of this until experience with the PIC processor families
stabilized the compiler. Interestedly the current support for the
16C66, '67, '76, '77 required the knowledge gained from the first
half dozen or so applications now going into production.

Testing, as several have pointed out, determines only what doesn't
work. It is a very tough problem. The tests we use come from four
sources. We buy commercial test suites, two separate groups in
Byte Craft write test suites (developers and customer support
people), We contract out the writing of specific test suites to outside
companies specializing in this type of work and we use the publicly
available test suites and example code.

Our tests come from


'Re[2]: C Compiler'
1998\11\05@093800 by Wolfgang Kynast
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Hi James,

>> see http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/wky/pic.htm#table4

JC> But none of those C compilers were freeware or shareware, they all had a
JC> license fee.  Was there any particular compiler you were referring to,
JC> Wolfgang?

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/jokinen/
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/c.html
are free.
HiTech has a version free for 21 days.

BTW, why do you think somebody should give away a C compiler
for free? "Shareware" meens 'try before buy' - nothing else.

Regards,
Wolfgang
--
PIC links:
http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/wky/pic.htm

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