I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area of
expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the kind of
products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the moment
i earn a good pay.
These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i used to
have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with high
level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life quality.
I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that i`m
doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m single, live
alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need. One
could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is best for
me, but money also matters.
I would like to know your opinion about this.
--
View this message in context: old.nabble.com/Job-satisfaction-or-money--tp28504683p28504683.html
Sent from the PIC - [OT] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Negotiate with them, and get the money up. Sounds like they know you,
like you. You didn't say whether they or you initiated the thought of
coming back, they probably need you. :) Think long term money. Is there
possibility of other employers in the area? What would money be if you
moved to another area?
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area of
> expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the kind of
> products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the moment
> i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
> doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i used to
> have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with high
> level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that i`m
> doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m single, live
> alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need. One
> could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is best for
> me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
>
Your situation is unique to you, so you are the one who has to make the
call.
Pay is an important aspect of any job, and in some measure or another, a
gauge
of success of one's life and life work. Job satisfaction is another
important
aspect of one's career. Some would say pay is most important. However, in
my
opinion, job satisfaction is the more important of the two.
My reasoning for this is that if you aren't satisfied in the job you have,
regardless
If it is simple or complex, no amount of money would really make it
worthwhile.
However, if you are satisfied in your job, and enjoy it, the fact that you
earn less
money is only a minor setback. There are always raises, both periodic and
non periodic.
The periodic ones are typically cost of living raises, and virtually
everyone on the
payroll get them. But the non periodic raises are the ones I tend to aim
for. And I
have gotten several of them in my career so far. These come from the fact
that if you
are satisfied with your job, you will tend to work longer or harder or more
effectively,
and be looking for opportunities to excel. Your superiors will most of the
time see this,
and realize that you go the extra mile, and to keep you in their employ, as
well as reward
for a job well done, will issue a non periodic raise. At least in my
experience, that is
what has happened.
So, bottom line from my perspective is weigh the benefit of working where
you are satisfied
Or where you're not satisfied. Then factor in the loss of the extra income.
In other words, based on the information you supplied, is it worth 30% of
your current pay to
have a job you enjoy doing, and one that you can't wait to get to in the
morning versus having extra
money from a job that you can't wait until quitting time arrives every day.
To me, the choice is simple. I would take the satisfying job earning less
pay. But that is me.
You have to make your own choice. FYI, I have worked for basically two
companies for the last
27 years. Texas Instruments Inc. for 15 years and for Ion Geophysical Inc.
for 12. At both
of these employers, I have thoroughly enjoyed my job.
I worked in Product Engineering at TI and am currently working in R&D
Engineering at Ion Geophysical.
I can't wait to get to work in the mornings, and I also stay late most days
because I
choose to, not because I am required to. I like the atmosphere where I
work, and I truly like my
coworkers.
I am a blessed man for having the good fortune of having jobs that I truly
love.
To me that is the important thing.
You just have to decide which is more important to you.
For me, the over riding theoretical factor would be job satisfaction.
However, I've only ever had 1.5 jobs where I felt I had some sort of
job satisfaction.
If you can afford to go back to your previous job, that is you haven't
taken on extra rent or mortgage to match your current salary, then the
move back would seem easier. As they are asking you back, perhaps they
could eb asked to consider an increase of some kind or some other perk
that might be to your benefit, though a 70% increase in pay is
unlikely.
If you have extended your expenditure to match your new earnings, then
your decision becomes, will the old pay cover this or not.
At some point you also have to take a chance, if employment is picking
up in your area, then it might be worth sticking out the current job
and seeing if something better comes along. If though the current one
causes you to dread getting out of bed in the morning (or night), is
fraught with arguments and you leave work wondering how you didn't bop
someone on the nose, then back to the old job it'd be (for me).
Some ideas...
a) negotiate some increase in pay for returning to them.
b) negotiate some other perks in lieu of a pay raise.
One idea might be to get reduced hours. Think what a half day or maybe
a whole day off could do for you. You could develop your own projects
to the point where the next job change will be to work for yourself.
>
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area
> of expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and
> the kind of products i`m working on are not motivational for me.
> However, at the moment i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job,
> wich doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where
> i used to have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop
> products with high level of complexity and high aggregate value and
> have more life quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that
> i`m doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m
> single, live alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents
> if I need. One could say that this is the moment to make changes and
> doing wath is best for me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
You should also consider how each job will position you for future
work. It sounds as if the job change is appealing to you mostly
because the projects are larger and more challenging/interesting. If
this is the case, don't ignore how this will look to future employers
as opposed to hanging on at your current job where your work might be
more mundane. Even if you give up a little bit of pay now, it may be
worth it in the long run, even ignoring quality of life and just
looking at money, if it enables you to move into positions in the
future where you are satisfied AND well paid. Whether or not this is
the case here is for you to decide.
Also, to echo previous responders, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.
Your current hesitance to switch, fueled by the fact that you have a
job and don't need this one, puts you in a strong position to leverage
more out of the deal, which could be more salary, more vacation, a
better title, more choice/control over projects, etc. The first offer
is almost never the final offer, esp if they specifically value you
personally and you aren't just another resume in the stack. You also
might be able to use the offer from your old job as leverage to
improve your current job situation in some way, if such an improvement
is even possible there.
>
>
> :: I would like to know your opinion about this.
>
> For me, the over riding theoretical factor would be job satisfaction.
> However, I've only ever had 1.5 jobs where I felt I had some sort of
> job satisfaction.
>
> If you can afford to go back to your previous job, that is you haven't
> taken on extra rent or mortgage to match your current salary, then the
> move back would seem easier. As they are asking you back, perhaps they
> could eb asked to consider an increase of some kind or some other perk
> that might be to your benefit, though a 70% increase in pay is
> unlikely.
>
> If you have extended your expenditure to match your new earnings, then
> your decision becomes, will the old pay cover this or not.
>
> At some point you also have to take a chance, if employment is picking
> up in your area, then it might be worth sticking out the current job
> and seeing if something better comes along. If though the current one
> causes you to dread getting out of bed in the morning (or night), is
> fraught with arguments and you leave work wondering how you didn't bop
> someone on the nose, then back to the old job it'd be (for me).
>
> Colin
>
>
> --
> cdb, colinKILLspambtech-online.co.uk on 10/05/2010
>
> Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk
>
> Hosted by: http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jens:
Have yo checked out how well the company is doing? Many years ago I
accepted a dream job good pay, excellent location, every thing was great
except the company was being sold and the plant would close. This was
known by very few people.
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area of
> expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the kind of
> products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the moment
> i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
> doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i used to
> have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with high
> level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that i`m
> doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m single, live
> alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need. One
> could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is best for
> me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
>
I have had over 20 jobs , including summer jobs , jobs I quit , jobs I
was fired
from and jobs that I really liked. I have jobs at companies that went
out of
business. I never stay at a job if I don't like it or feel it
involves immoral
activities. I had a job in Chicago in the 1980s that paid $35/hour
* , where I
could set my own agenda for each day and I where I had some really
some great times.
Gradually I could see that I was of less value to the company and one
day at lunch
with the owner ( I had lunch with him nearly every day ) I told him I
was firing
myself.
You have one life and I would advise not wasting one moment of it
doing stuff that
you are not enlivened by.
Gus
$2.60
using the Consumer Price Index
$2.30
using the GDP deflator
$2.58
using the unskilled wage
$2.87
using the Production Worker Compensation
$3.79
using the nominal GDP per capita
$5.11
using the relative share of GDP
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my
> area of
> expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the
> kind of
> products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the
> moment
> i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
> doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i
> used to
> have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with
> high
> level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life
> quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive
> that i`m
> doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m
> single, live
> alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need.
> One
> could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is
> best for
> me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
>
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/result.php?
use
[]=
DOLLAR
&use
[]=
GDPDEFLATION
&use
[]=
VCB
&use
[]=
UNSKILLED
&use
[]=
MANCOMP
&use
[]=NOMGDPCP&use[]=NOMINALGDP&year_source=1980&amount=1&year_result=2009
What's this "job satisfaction" thing you speak of?
NEVER switch jobs voluntarily for a reduction in real pay, unless you
can guarantee it quickly furthers your career somehow, or if your
current job affects you physically.
What's this "job satisfaction" thing you speak of?
NEVER switch jobs voluntarily for a reduction in real pay, unless you
can guarantee it quickly furthers your career somehow, or if your
current job affects you physically.
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area of
> expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the kind of
> products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the moment
> i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
> doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i used to
> have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with high
> level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that i`m
> doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m single, live
> alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need. One
> could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is best for
> me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
>
I suppose that you live in a rich country and earn substantially more
than the minimum needed to have a decent living.
If in the new job you will also earn more than the minimum necessary,
AND your present job is affecting your health or self-esteem, AND if you
think the new job will fix this, then I would say "go for it".
But don't forget, as other mentioned, to check whether the new company
is not falling apart.
Regards,
Isaac
__________________________________________________
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Blick" <bobblickspam_OUTftml.net>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <@spam@piclistKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] Job satisfaction or money?
>I would like to hear what "job satisfaction" is, and how it could
> possibly be worth 30%.
>
> I mean, maybe I have it, but if I do, it's no better than what I get
> changing the timing belt on my car.
>
Feeling of fufillment/achievement? To take an extreme example - If someone
offered you a tech job on the forthcoming mission to mars(*insert dream job
as appropriate) but told you it would earn you 30% less than your current
job at supermarket x, that (IMHO) would be worth a pay cut. For me, music
is/has been one of my main earners and the money (honestly) was never very
important because I loved the job so much, the whole experience was the
driving factor. In the end of the day what we enjoy or are satisfied by is
an entirely personal thing. For some people the 30% may be irrelevant, in
fact money itself may be so (yes I know it's unlikely, but some people do
spend their lives working for other things), while others would see it as
the main factor. I personally view money as just a tool, and I know it does
not bring enjoyment or satisfaction by itself, but used wisely it can help
one to achieve their goals, whatever they may be. Also responsibilities
(significant others etc) may play a huge part in the final decision. I think
it's a simple question with a very complicated answer that will differ
slightly for all of us. Personally I'd say I don't know the OP well enough
to advise him at all on this matter, although I can tell him I'd *probably*
go for the job I enjoyed more if it was me, all other things being equal
(apart from the money obviously :-).
The idea is that you don't feel the needs higher in the pyramid until
you have fairly well satisfied all the lower sets of needs.
Personally, I'd suggest thinking long and hard about the 50% more pay you're
getting now and whether that could be used to result in more satisfaction
(personal growth, freedom, security, opportunities for travel and
learning etc)
outside the job, now or in the future. If you needed to find another job
for some reason in a year or two, which would be the better springboard for
that? What if your circumstances change for the better or the worse, which
gives you more room to adjust to the bad or to take advantage of
opportunities?
Do you have a written 1/3/5-year plan for yourself, where you want to be, and
how you will get there? How about 20 years from now?
On Mon, 10 May 2010 03:27:54 +0100, "Oli Glaser" said:
> Feeling of fufillment/achievement? To take an extreme example - If
> someone
> offered you a tech job on the forthcoming mission to mars(*insert dream
> job
> as appropriate) but told you it would earn you 30% less than your current
> job at supermarket x, that (IMHO) would be worth a pay cut. For me, music
> is/has been one of my main earners and the money (honestly) was never
> very
> important because I loved the job so much, the whole experience was the
> driving factor. In the end of the day what we enjoy or are satisfied by
Interesting. I don't think working on someone elses projects would ever
qualify as my dream job. It would essentially be working on someone
elses dream.
It doesn't matter if I am "creative" in the job or not, if I'm working
on my own projects it is fulfilling. If it's someone elses "dream", it's
not mine.
I've been a working musician, too, same thing. Unless it's my music,
it's not as fun. In fact, it sort of ruins it. Think how unfulfilled
George Harrison felt after all those years of only getting one song per
album. And he was in the Beatles.
So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes. Otherwise,
no.
People in my private life enjoy my company more If I enjoy my work life.
And currently I enjoy my work.
You may have to sell your soul for an extra few bucks. People say chase the
dollar, and taking this advice to the nth degree may require you fill a
vacancy in the local drug cartel for example. Yes the pay might be good but
the hours, bosses, customers and stress would probably suck.
> On Mon, 10 May 2010 03:27:54 +0100, "Oli Glaser" said:
>> Feeling of fufillment/achievement? To take an extreme example - If
>> someone
>> offered you a tech job on the forthcoming mission to mars(*insert dream
>> job
>> as appropriate) but told you it would earn you 30% less than your current
>> job at supermarket x, that (IMHO) would be worth a pay cut. For me, music
>> is/has been one of my main earners and the money (honestly) was never
>> very
>> important because I loved the job so much, the whole experience was the
>> driving factor. In the end of the day what we enjoy or are satisfied by
>
> Interesting. I don't think working on someone elses projects would ever
> qualify as my dream job. It would essentially be working on someone
> elses dream.
>
> It doesn't matter if I am "creative" in the job or not, if I'm working
> on my own projects it is fulfilling. If it's someone elses "dream", it's
> not mine.
>
> I've been a working musician, too, same thing. Unless it's my music,
> it's not as fun. In fact, it sort of ruins it. Think how unfulfilled
> George Harrison felt after all those years of only getting one song per
> album. And he was in the Beatles.
>
> So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes. Otherwise,
> no.
>
I'm completely with you on that one Bob. For me, it would also have to be my
own "dream", but that wouldn't exclude sharing a common dream with others.
This is exactly why I am self employed, so I can have full control over my
own projects and I know exactly who's to blame when it doesn't work, a kind
of "if you want something doing properly do it yourself" approach. It's not
that I can't work with others, in fact I enjoy it, but that "business" often
gets in the way of creativity and corporate environments can be mind-numbing
places, and the level of detachment in most companies nowadays completely
obliterates any idea of personal project or achievement. Indeed, sometimes
you may not even know what the finished "product" will be. I think Marx hit
a few nails on the head in his Theory of Alienation (although Chaplin in
Modern Times didn't do a bad job either :-)
With the music I always did my own stuff, the thought of anything else was
alien to me. I suppose the furthest I got down the other road was session
work and teaching. On the Beatles front, the one song per album George
Harrison wrote was usually pretty good though, so maybe he felt fulfilled in
that respect - at least he wasn't Ringo :-)
My main point was that it's different people, different aspirations,
different outlook etc, so I don't think there are any hard and fast rules to
go by.
On Mon, 10 May 2010 05:19:41 +0100, "Oli Glaser" said:
> that respect - at least he wasn't Ringo :-)
LOL!
> My main point was that it's different people, different aspirations,
> different outlook etc, so I don't think there are any hard and fast rules
> to
> go by.
Luckily there are lots of niches, when we look hard enough we find one
that fits.
Jens Konig wrote:
oney also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
Jens, I think as many other said that the decissión is up to
you but may be our opinion can give you several watches on
the same picture that can make your mind clear.
If you are young, single, no kids and with possible parents
support I would chase for the better "career program". 30%
is a lot of money but as many one said you could fight for
some more.. may be you could reach about 15% less than your
actual job.
In the pursue for a career plan, you have to think what you
would like to do in the near future . A developer? A
techincal salesman? A manager? Many high tech companies do
require technical qualified people for their jobs. It comes
a time when real complex equipmen have to be leaded by real
senior engineers (some people think that if you work for 10
years you are a senior, well that's not true, you can work
10 years turning leds on an off and that doesn't make you a
senior ... unless you are working on a HDTV device LOL).
So, if your current job is boring, not technically
challenging and is not on the line you want to be within the
near future.. so I think facts are showing you the answer...
money is important but living is important too.
I've seen many technical people , engineers, that worked on
a not too well paid job for several years, suddendly a new
company comes to town and hires the best technical people
for 2 to 3 times their current income!! why? because they
needed the best to do the best and because the best for
their work are the technical skilled people, not the best
paid in their previous job...
When I see job postings, they always demand skills not your
previous sallary... if your current sallary comes together
with a non challenging technical job and with no career
plan... then well you have there the answer too... may be
the money that you earn today will be the money you will
earn all your life in that job...
In another job, where technical skills are appreciated, you
will earn more as you are better on what you do...
I hope you cearl your mind and choose what's better for you.
Ditto. :) Except with the current messed up economy, in some areas, but
I would expect if you are on this list, (having the education and
experience) that wouldn't apply.
> What's this "job satisfaction" thing you speak of?
>
> NEVER switch jobs voluntarily for a reduction in real pay, unless you
> can guarantee it quickly furthers your career somehow, or if your
> current job affects you physically.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
>
I was going to point out maslow's hierarchy of needs, but Spehro beat
me to it. It essentially says that once your basic needs are met, you
have a desire to fulfill "self actualization" - a sense of creation,
fulfillment - ie, you are being your best "self".
The current job allows you to meet your needs, but it is limiting your
self actualization.
What you seem to be saying is that the lower paying job would be more
fulfilling. You also suggest that your basic needs would still be
met, though you might have to compromise your current standard of
living, you'd still have a roof, food, friends, and the means to live
a reasonably healthy life.
If that's so, then it appears that you would be better off as a whole
moving to the lower paying position, which, in reality, meets more of
your needs than the higher paying position.
However, your job should not be your life, and you may actually be in
a stronger position if you don't try to make your job fulfill all your
needs. Diversify a bit - otherwise when you lose your job you lose
more than mere financial support, you also lose your creative outlet.
I know people who work boring day jobs, but spend their free time
doing incredibly creative work, collaborating with others, teaching,
etc. They use work as a way to meet their basic needs and free them
to pursue other interests outside of work.
As an engineer, however, you are in a lucky group - people who can
puruse their dream and often support themselves through it. If you
create your passion during the free time your better paying job gives
you, and use the extra money to fuel your 'hobby' side of life, you
may well find that with a little tweaking it can become the means to
support your basic needs as well.
But we can only give you more information and ideas. You'll still
need to decide what you should do, and I believe that you're best off
sitting down and deciding what/where you want to be in 5 years.
Imagine the ideal situation, and then figure out the path that will
take you there. You may find that neither of these companies is
actually on the way to your destination. Alternately, you may find
they are both on the way, and so the decision is arbitrary.
But thinking ahead is probably going to give you more direction than a
simple pro/con list.
Hope this gives you a little more to think about, and good luck!
>
> Hi all,
>
> I can`t say that i`m totally disgusted with my job, i work on my area of
> expertise (embedded sw and hw developer) but the enviroment and the kind of
> products i`m working on are not motivational for me. However, at the moment
> i earn a good pay.
>
> These days i receive a invite to come back to work in my old job, wich
> doesn`t pay so good (actually 70% of my actual salary) but where i used to
> have a good enviroment of work, where i could develop products with high
> level of complexity and high aggregate value and have more life quality.
>
> I haven't made up my mind at all yet, actually i`m so indecisive that i`m
> doing a list with advantages and disadvantages of each one. I`m single, live
> alone, have no kids and i can have support of my parents if I need. One
> could say that this is the moment to make changes and doing wath is best for
> me, but money also matters.
>
> I would like to know your opinion about this.
> --
> View this message in context: old.nabble.com/Job-satisfaction-or-money--tp28504683p28504683.html
> Sent from the PIC - [OT] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
Bob Blick wrote:
> Interesting. I don't think working on someone elses projects would ever
> qualify as my dream job. It would essentially be working on someone
> elses dream.
>
> It doesn't matter if I am "creative" in the job or not, if I'm working
> on my own projects it is fulfilling. If it's someone elses "dream", it's
> not mine.
IDK, I remember working overtime in what you may describe "sweatshop
conditions", and having my boss pry me off working on "his dream" because it
was 3 am. Maybe it's because I was young and naive, but I definitely relate
to being excited about something that is not "my own".
Someone mentioned the space program. When I read books about the Apollo
program, they are full of people saying that they were "proud to be a part
of it", and most of them made great sacrifices to make it possible.
Even slave laborers understand "job satisfaction". One great illustration is
a scene from Solzhenitsyn's "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" where
the bricklayers working under terrible conditions, in bitter cold, get
pleasure from the rhythm of the work and the feeling of accomplishment that
one gets from making something with his own hands.
> So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
Why don't you?
I think you and I would have far fewer disagreements, if you started your
own business -- because our worldviews would become much better aligned. :)
> > So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
> Why don't you?
> I think you and I would have far fewer disagreements, if you started your
> own business -- because our worldviews would become much better aligned. :)
Fighting words, consciously or no.
I'd go so far as to suggest, entirely with my list-member hat clamped
firmly on my head, that such suggestions are best left unmade in some
circumstances, such as this one.
It could be argued that if this were true it might be because it would
promote increased myopia, aka focus on the immediately relevant for
survival at the expense of the wider perspective or greawater good
etc. I'm not saying that myself - I'm self employed and consider
myself to be (too?) highly focused on the greater good, but if such an
argument were mooted, or if the suggestion was found distasteful, or
if a counter proposal was made, one could hardly be surprised. No?
>>> So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
>
>> Why don't you?
>
Because usually that "only 30% pay cut" is seriously in doubt if you
go from being an employee to owning your own business. Expertise
in ... anything else ... doesn't necessarily translate into expertise
in running a small business.
Russell McMahon wrote:
>> > So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
>
>> Why don't you?
>
>> I think you and I would have far fewer disagreements, if you started your
>> own business -- because our worldviews would become much better aligned.
>> :)
>
> Fighting words, consciously or no.
You know I consider you my friend, Russell. However, I wish you didn't try
to overanalyze what I write. I asked a simple question, without any intent
to provoke an argument. I meant what I said, and I said what I meant -- take
it at face value.
> I'd go so far as to suggest, entirely with my list-member hat clamped
> firmly on my head, that such suggestions are best left unmade in some
> circumstances, such as this one.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, fellow list member. ;)
> It could be argued that if this were true it might be because it would
> promote increased myopia, aka focus on the immediately relevant for
> survival at the expense of the wider perspective or greawater good
> etc. I'm not saying that myself - I'm self employed and consider
> myself to be (too?) highly focused on the greater good, but if such an
> argument were mooted, or if the suggestion was found distasteful, or
> if a counter proposal was made, one could hardly be surprised. No?
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I think that in trying to
"protect" and "keep peace" (some would call it "touchy-feely PC"), you are
making things worse. For example, you already blew my innocuous comment out
of proportion, using the slippery slope logic.
Counter proposal -- in other words, an invitation to "get a job", i.e., join
the "regular" workforce? Been there, done that, may consider it again in the
future.
William "Chops" Westfield wrote:
>>>> So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
>>
>>> Why don't you?
>>
> Because usually that "only 30% pay cut" is seriously in doubt if you
> go from being an employee to owning your own business. Expertise
> in ... anything else ... doesn't necessarily translate into expertise
> in running a small business.
True, but the opposite is also true. Nate Seidle would not be the owner of a
multimillion dollar company today, if he got a job back in 2003, like most
of his college mates. And we wouldn't have Sparkfun.
William "Chops" Westfield wrote:
>>>> So would I take a 30% cut if I got to do my own stuff? Yes.
>>>>
>>> Why don't you?
>>>
> Because usually that "only 30% pay cut" is seriously in doubt if you
> go from being an employee to owning your own business. Expertise
> in ... anything else ... doesn't necessarily translate into expertise
> in running a small business.
>
> BillW
>
>
> My main point was that it's different people, different aspirations,
> different outlook etc, so I don't think there are any hard and fast
> rules to go by
For the past week I've been collecting and filtering the applications
for a friend's job ad. Laminating, framing, mounting, etc for private
and commercial art/printing
It's skill-with-practice-and-training work, handling other people's
property all day
I've been very surprised by the background of some of the applicants.
One I looked at this morning has a Civil Engineering BE and
qualifications in traffic management, but would like the job because
of his interest in photography. Similarly a double-degree microbiologist
at the weekend. In fact the ones who aren't recent school-leavers
(generally girls) with an interest in arts/photography/ have work
histories that at first glance make them look totally unsuitable or
over-qualified and making an employment quantum leap
But then I remember my own work history. An industrial chemist
for many years, then a switch to carpentry. Then a job literally right
next door to where I lived working in a frozen food warehouse (free
food is as good as a pay rise). All the time jobbing in bands, free-
lance cabinetmaking, and learning electronics and computing. Pay
went up or down over the years, but I was never unsatisfied. I see
my contemporaries from time to time, who stuck with our original
jobs, and they look old
It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day roster,
for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2 weeks
but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am certain i
would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to drive
approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have. The
problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want to return
to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer, I may
find there is nothing good on offer.
I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but I would
kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
> On May 13, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Justin Richards wrote:
>
> It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
>
> Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day
> roster,
> for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2
> weeks
> but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
>
> I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
> 1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am
> certain i
> would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to
> drive
> approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
>
> The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
> requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have.
> The
> problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
> relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want
> to return
> to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer,
> I may
> find there is nothing good on offer.
>
> I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but
> I would
> kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
Thank you all for the answers and advices. It is always nice learning from
other's experience.
Actually, i haven't made up my mind yet and when decide it, if it is the
wrong choice, there is no going back.
I can resume my situation like that:
- actual job: low technology, working without pressure, high professional
development environment
- possible future job: high technology, working under pressure, development
environment is "home made"
>
> So what is your decision and how did you arrive at it ?
> Did anyone else get to vote ?
> How will you know looking back if it was the wrong choice ?
> Gus
>
>> On May 13, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Justin Richards wrote:
>>
>> It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
>>
>> Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day
>> roster,
>> for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2
>> weeks
>> but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
>>
>> I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
>> 1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am
>> certain i
>> would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to
>> drive
>> approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
>>
>> The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
>> requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have.
>> The
>> problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
>> relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want
>> to return
>> to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer,
>> I may
>> find there is nothing good on offer.
>>
>> I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but
>> I would
>> kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
Thank you all for the answers and advices. It is always nice learning from
other's experience.
Actually, i haven't made up my mind yet and when decide it, if it is the
wrong choice, there is no going back.
I can resume my situation like that:
- actual job: low technology, working without pressure, development
environment is "home made"
- possible future job: high technology, working under pressure, high
professional development environment
>
> So what is your decision and how did you arrive at it ?
> Did anyone else get to vote ?
> How will you know looking back if it was the wrong choice ?
> Gus
>
>> On May 13, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Justin Richards wrote:
>>
>> It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
>>
>> Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day
>> roster,
>> for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2
>> weeks
>> but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
>>
>> I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
>> 1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am
>> certain i
>> would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to
>> drive
>> approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
>>
>> The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
>> requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have.
>> The
>> problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
>> relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want
>> to return
>> to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer,
>> I may
>> find there is nothing good on offer.
>>
>> I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but
>> I would
>> kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
Thank you all for the answers and advices. It is always nice learning from
other's experience.
Actually, i haven't made up my mind yet and when decide it, if it is the
wrong choice, there is no going back.
I can resume my situation like that:
-actual job: low technology, working without pressure, development
environment is "home made", salary: X
- possible future job: high technology, working under pressure, high
professional development environment, salary: X*0.9 (i have negotiated for a
better value than X*0.7)
>
> So what is your decision and how did you arrive at it ?
> Did anyone else get to vote ?
> How will you know looking back if it was the wrong choice ?
> Gus
>
>> On May 13, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Justin Richards wrote:
>>
>> It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
>>
>> Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day
>> roster,
>> for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2
>> weeks
>> but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
>>
>> I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
>> 1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am
>> certain i
>> would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to
>> drive
>> approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
>>
>> The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
>> requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have.
>> The
>> problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
>> relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want
>> to return
>> to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer,
>> I may
>> find there is nothing good on offer.
>>
>> I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but
>> I would
>> kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
Thank you all for the answers and advices. It is always nice learning from
other's experience.
Actually, i haven't made up my mind yet and when decide it, if it is the
wrong choice, there is no going back.
I can resume my situation like that:
-actual job: low technology, working without pressure, development
environment is "home made", salary: X, around 20 kilometers away from home
- possible future job: high technology, working under pressure, high
professional development environment, salary: X*0.9 (i have negotiated for a
better value than X*0.7), around 5 kilometers away from home
>
> So what is your decision and how did you arrive at it ?
> Did anyone else get to vote ?
> How will you know looking back if it was the wrong choice ?
> Gus
>
>> On May 13, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Justin Richards wrote:
>>
>> It is interesting as I am currently faced with a similar question.
>>
>> Currently fly in/fly out, 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off 12 hour a day
>> roster,
>> for $X. I enjoy the work, the people but I am away from home for 2
>> weeks
>> but also home for a whole 2 weeks every month.
>>
>> I recently applied for a position based 40 km's from home (instead of
>> 1000kms) that is 8:30am - 4:30pm for less than $0.7X and I am
>> certain i
>> would enjoy the work, the people and be home every night but have to
>> drive
>> approx 2 hours each day and no 2 weeks off at a time.
>>
>> The problem is the new job looks like I would have a good chance as it
>> requires a odd set of skills and experience that I happen to have.
>> The
>> problem being is that these jobs that match my odd skill set and pay
>> relatively well dont come up very often in the city. So if I want
>> to return
>> to the city later and do a normal 9 to 5 job like the one on offer,
>> I may
>> find there is nothing good on offer.
>>
>> I do consider myself very fortunate however as I have a choices, but
>> I would
>> kick myself if I made the wrong choice.
btech-online.co.uk on 10/05/2010
