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'R[OT]FL - Sun invents the mainframe computer'
1999\09\25@042550 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Sun "Sun Ray 1 network appliance"

I thought it must be April 1st up there in the Northern hemisphere but
apparently not :-)
I'm still not sure that they are not pulling my leg.
Talk about full circle.
Sorry, no PICs here - but a top end PIC would be just about good enough :-)

NO local computing whatsoever.
8M RAM
No local storage


RM

PS For the young - look up the following words in a computer dictionary. It
looks like they are going to prove useful (again)

Dumb terminal.
Main frame.
Dinosaur.
_______________________________________

http://www.sun.com/sunray1/feature.html

and

http://www.sun.com/products/sunray1/whitepapers/aberdeen/;$sessionid$PIY1VBQ
AAEJYBAMUVFZE45Q

The ideal appliance solution for enterprise workgroups.
Easy to use, easy to administer, easy to like
Your work is always there -- when you want it, where you want it
Your data is safe
Improved productivity and lower costs go hand-in-hand.

Are you looking for centralized administration and a rich user experience?
Look no further. The "plug-and-work" Sun RayTM 1 enterprise appliance
requires no client administration or upgrades while at the same time putting
the power of the server on your desktop. On top of that, you get the unique
capability of "hot desking" -- the ability to instantly access your
computing session from any appliance in your workgroup -- exactly where you
left off.


The Sun Ray 1 enterprise architecture is made up of the appliance itself,
Sun Ray enterprise server software, and Hot Desk technology. The first true
appliance for the Service Driven Network, the Sun Ray 1 enterprise appliance
is ideal for your enterprise workgroup environment's business-critical
applications -- including customer management, call centers, training and
education, government, financial services, and ERP -- and never needs
upgrading.


Easy to use, easy to administer, easy to like.
With Sun Ray 1 enterprise appliances, you get a greatly simplified
environment that offers the benefits of client-server computing without the
costs of maintaining fat clients. So you can gain greater control over your
desktop -- significantly reducing purchase, service, and support costs,
while still securely accessing your favorite applications. In fact, you can
access applications on any application server -- whether it's running the
SolarisTM Operating Environment, Windows NT, or JavaTM technology-based
applications.
And while you're enjoying those benefits, you're also getting the inherent
benefits of a stateless terminal: low cost, high reliability, remote
administration, and centralized support -- because you're supporting one
central server instead of a fleet of independent PCs.

Sun Ray 1 appliances are centrally managed by Sun Ray enterprise server
software, which provides user authentication and user session management,
enhances your security, and further reduces the complexity and
administration of your IT environment. The Sun Ray enterprise server
software runs on the reliable, available, scalable (RAS) SolarisTM Operating
Environment (SPARCTM Platform Edition), allowing deployment in conjunction
with other management tools such as Solaris Resource ManagerTM and Sun
Enterprise SyMONTM that further ease administration and resource management
on the network.

Your work is always there -- when you want it, where you want it.
To begin working on a Sun Ray 1 enterprise appliance, simply insert your
smart card. The Sun Ray software on the server recognizes your user ID and
instantly reinstates your existing user session right where you previously
left off. So you can go to any Sun Ray 1 appliance on your workgroup LAN and
access all your data and your entire environment.
If you're interrupted for any reason, and want to continue working on your
application later at a different location within the workgroup, just insert
your smart card in the new appliance -- and your application and environment
are exactly as you left them.

Your data is safe.
In the unlikely event that you'd want to swap out one of your highly
reliable Sun Ray 1 appliances, you can do so without worrying about losing
your session -- because your entire state and user environment is running on
the server, not on the desktop. If your appliance gets disconnected for any
reason, simply plug it -- or another appliance -- back in, and you're
immediately back up right where you left off.

Improved productivity and lower costs go hand-in-hand.
>From a management perspective, Sun Ray 1 appliances offer incredibly
low-cost network computing. They have a very low cost per seat, require zero
desktop maintenance, and you only have to maintain one instance of the
operating system on the server. Plus, there's no retraining, rewriting, or
porting of applications.
Sun Ray 1 appliances improve user productivity and user satisfaction thanks
to their ease-of-use features, instant boot features, and data reliability
since the data resides on the server instead of the desktop. You don't lose
valuable time waiting for the system to start up, recover data or restart
applications.

In addition, you're no longer required to have a one-to-one relationship of
desktop clients to users, so sharing Sun Ray 1 appliances is practical and
secure. Say your business has multiple shifts: no problem. One user can
simply take out his or her smart card, and the next user can come in, call
up his own environment, and be instantly productive. There's no danger of
users somehow corrupting each others files, and no slow down in work.

You'll also enjoy improved administration and security with Sun Ray 1
appliances. You eliminate the hassles of software distribution, upgrades are
done on the central server instead of at each desktop, and you get better
desktop control to implement your IT policies more effectively. Plus, you
leverage the outstanding RAS capabilities that Sun is famous for. In short,
the Sun Ray 1 enterprise appliance is a reliable, safe way to bolster
productivity while minimizing costs.


_____________________________
What can one dinosaur hater do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

1999\09\25@065638 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Sat, Sep 25, 1999 at 08:18:51PM +1200, Russell McMahon wrote:
> Sun "Sun Ray 1 network appliance"
>
> I thought it must be April 1st up there in the Northern hemisphere but
> apparently not :-)
> I'm still not sure that they are not pulling my leg.
> Talk about full circle.
> Sorry, no PICs here - but a top end PIC would be just about good enough :-)
>
> NO local computing whatsoever.
> 8M RAM
> No local storage
>
> PS For the young - look up the following words in a computer dictionary. It
> looks like they are going to prove useful (again)
>
> Dumb terminal.
> Main frame.
> Dinosaur.

Perhaps you've not tried to support devices *with*
local storage and computing in a clerical application,
e.g. airline ticket agent, insurance claims processor,
auto repair shop workorder tracking, large retail outlet,
etc. In very many applications, distributed computing and
storage offers a laundry list of negatives with almost no
positives. Suppose that you had 2000 people working in an
insurance claims office. Why would you put something like
a disk drive at each of the 2000 desks? Western Digital's
MTBF spec for an EIDE hard disk is 300,000 hours. With
two thousand drives in service, one can then expect a
failure on average once a week. And with the tendancy of
stochastic processes to cluster, what you can *really*
expect is the occasional Very Bad Week with a half-dozen
failures, each of which can be quite disruptive.  (I've
done computer support for a group of 350 users for fifteen
years and can tell you that it really does work this way).
Add something like Microsoft Windows (a stochastic process
in and of itself) into the mix and worse, buggy Windows
applications, and it adds up to a sizable staff of people
who do very little but scurry about fixing problems for
people who don't even *care* what kind of stupid computer
they have as long as they can code their quota of insurace
forms for the day and get home in time to have dinner with
the family.  Offices are harsh, difficult environments
for something as complex as a computer. They are dusty
and unaffordable to cool 24x7. They inhabited by klutzes
that trip over power cords and spill coffee and visited
nightly by cleaning people looking for places to plug
in the vaccuum.  Factory floors, repair shops, garages,
airports and so on are of course even worse.

Mainframes are excellent solutions for these kinds of
applications, and they never really went away. PCs and
such came into favor because it was difficult to get
enough computing capacity in the mainframe and networking
bandwidth out to the desktops to support graphical
interfaces; thus the primary role of the PC was to
provide the processing in support of the user interface.
The mainframes still provided the back-end data
storage and much of the application processing.
However, it is now quite straightforward to build a
mainframe and supporting networks with the capacity
to do that kind of work, and the desktop computer
option looks less and less attractive all the time.

There is a huge market for systems to support these
kinds of applications, and Sun is getting filthy rich
selling them.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
spam_OUTbobTakeThisOuTspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================
       http://www.drzyzgula.org/bob/electronics/
============================================================

1999\09\25@090748 by Russell McMahon

picon face
I'm not really against main frames - they certainly have their place. I just
think its superbly funny for them to be being written up by the sales and
marketing guys as a new discovery, the latest paradigm, gee look at the
advantages etc. Next step, the air conditioned rooms, men in white coats,
raised floors etc.

And, yes, I have spent substantial time in proximity to a clerical support
environment (now happily well behind me) and am aware of the problems which
arise.

RM


_____________________________
What can one man do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/




From: Bob Drzyzgula <.....bobKILLspamspam@spam@drzyzgula.org>
>Perhaps you've not tried to support devices *with*
>local storage and computing in a clerical application,

1999\09\25@092629 by Steve Kelley

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part 0 11729 bytes
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>It looks like the *
distributed O/S and applications * might be where it's all headed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>You'll be able to wonder
around the house ( or work ) with a laptop that has nothing but</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>an LCD and keyboard / mouse
/ modem / x-megs of ram . . . . . you'll plug in ( for power )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>and connect to the * master
* , who will have all of your * apps * stored on-line .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>I wonder if the servers
name will be * HAL * ?&nbsp;&nbsp; Sort of spooky : - (</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2>Regards . . . .
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif"
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Steve Kelley</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif"
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Protobyte Inc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif"
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<A href="infospamKILLspamprotobyte.com">.....infoKILLspamspam.....protobyte.com</A></FONT></DIV>> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="MS Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
   <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>{Original Message removed}

1999\09\25@100603 by bowman

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:
>
> I'm still not sure that they are not pulling my leg.
> Talk about full circle.

Haven't you noticed the progression? I was first introduced to computing
on an OS360 in the '60s and thought it sucked. Got back into it in the
70's when you could actually get your hands on a 8080 or Z80 and play.
Loved actually being able to develop without having to deal with a
slothlike cross assembler on some overloaded Unix box, with a dead
simple CP/M environment. Then came DOS, Windows, Linux, and now this. At
least they are using a smart card rather than a piece of pasteboard with
holes in it. Mainframe jocks don't die, they just keep popping up at
inoportune moments, like herpes.

Just keeping the SNR low....
--
Bear Technology  Making Montana safe for Grizzlies

http://people.montana.com/~bowman/

1999\09\26@032151 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Steve said :
>It looks like the * distributed O/S and applications * might be where it's

> all headed. You'll be able to wonder around the house ( or work )
> with a laptop that has nothing but an LCD and keyboard /
> mouse / modem / x-megs of ram . . . . . you'll plug in ( for power )
>and connect to the * master * , who will have all of your * apps *
> stored on-line .
>I wonder if the servers name will be * HAL * ?   Sort of spooky : - (


More spooky than you may think if this happened:-)
Did you ever wonder where Arthur C Clark got the name HAL from?
Try this. Move each letter in the name HAL one place further along the
alphabet.
:-)
Too bad for Sun that the name wasn't RTM.

RM

____________________________
What can one man do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

   {Original Message removed}

1999\09\26@040008 by Mark Willis

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face
What I want (closest thing like this) is to have all my home machines
Beowulfing together, when not otherwise in use, perhaps with most info
stored securely in MY server, but no way am I going to trust MY personal
info to someone else's "secure" server.  Use such a widget for when/if
it's appropriate, sure;  Be unable to choose to store anything on my
hardware, Nope.  I'd say something like "They can have my HDD's when
they pry my fingers off 'em", but from what I've seen they're getting a
little over-eager to DO that...  Why do people keep solving the WRONG
problems, from my point of view?  <G>

Most of the reason I have all these machines:  Lack of expandability on
any given computer (Try, just Try, putting a gang EPROM programmer,
STK-200, PicStart Plus or Warp-13a, EMP-10, EMP-20, Parallax programmer,
a modem or two, a mouse, external portable hard drive, and anything Else
like 3-4 printers, all onto one computer.  LOTSA LUCK.  Insufficient
IRQ's, slots, etc.)

How would I go to the park & code PIC code in the sun, if I had no
storage media?  Ack!  <G>  (The old XT laptop will go 8 hours off a
charge...)

Lots to be said for having a few "throwaway" workstations around, for
just general work projects (like testing code that destroys the OS, for
example <G>)

 Mark

1999\09\26@104448 by Bob Wake

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face
Mark Willis wrote:
>
> What I want (closest thing like this) is to have all my home machines
> Beowulfing together

Beowulfing? Is that like Grendelling?

1999\09\26@133614 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Bob Wake wrote:
>
> Mark Willis wrote:
> >
> > What I want (closest thing like this) is to have all my home machines
> > Beowulfing together
>
> Beowulfing? Is that like Grendelling?

 All your computers become part of a large, distributed computer, for
the main site on this, see http://www.beowulf.org/ and/or glance at
http://www.beowulf-underground.org/underground/clemsonFAQ.html.  I
figure it'll speed up things a bit, if I take these 20 old 5X86-133
machines & tie 'em together...

 Mark

1999\09\26@234920 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
At 06:55 AM 9/25/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Add something like Microsoft Windows (a stochastic process
>in and of itself) into the mix and worse, buggy Windows

LOL! That's the best description of Windoze that I have heard yet!

Sean

|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
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