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PICList Thread
'Picstart Plus as ISP programmer??'
1998\03\19@105902 by Joe Little

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    Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
    installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
    connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.


    Joe
    spam_OUTjlittleTakeThisOuTspammindspring.com   http://www.mindspring.com/~jlittle/
    * MIDI * Triacs * PWB CAD Designer * PADS-PCB * Turn Key Electronics *
    Atlanta Ga. USA

1998\03\19@120130 by arvidj

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>      Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
>      installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
>      connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.

If you get any responses to this, would you mind forwarding them
to me.

Also, there are a number of articles on the Microchip site about
ISP and the "better" version of the Microchip Programmer
(i.e. what ever the next version up from the PicStart Plus is).

Thanks,
Arvid

1998\03\19@142433 by Wendall Siemens

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part 0 613 bytes
Goodluck,
Wendall
-----Original Message-----
From:   Joe Little [SMTP:.....Joe.LittleKILLspamspam@spam@SCIATL.COM]
Sent:   Thursday, March 19, 1998 8:33 AM
To:     PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Picstart Plus as ISP programmer??

    Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
    installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
    connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.


    Joe
    .....jlittleKILLspamspam.....mindspring.com   http://www.mindspring.com/~jlittle/
    * MIDI * Triacs * PWB CAD Designer * PADS-PCB * Turn Key Electronics *
    Atlanta Ga. USA

1998\03\19@142439 by tjaart

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Arvid Jedlicka wrote:

> >      Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
> >      installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
> >      connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.

It works. Watch out for :
1) Earth loops
2) Powering the target board with your PP+ (it won't work)
3) Long cables
4) Capacitance on your RB6 and RB7
5) Too small pull-up on MCLR. The PP+ won't be able to move the voltage.

It may be better to power up the target board and not connect the Vdd from the
PP+.


--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
EraseMEtjaartspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
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1998\03\19@142443 by Craig Lee

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Just yesterday I hooked the Picstart Plus into my system as an ISP.

I am using 16F84s and all I did is run wires from MCLR,VSS,RB6,RB7,and
VDD.  Then you need to attach these wires directly to your circuit.  Then,
you
should add a pullup to your real VDD.  I used a 470 ohm resistor.  Then you
should also add a 470 ohm resistor and a diode (I used a schottky)  from
VDD to MCLR with the cathode at MCLR.

Then press program on the Picstart Plus and everything works wonderfully.
I was also impressed with the rev 3.40 of MPLAB.  This and the new Rev1.5
firmware for the PicStart hardware, realizes quite a downloading speed
increase.

If you want more information, go on their website http://www.microchip.com
and get
the PDF on ISP.  It explains the connections and methodology for the other
PIC
devices.

Craig

{Original Message removed}

1998\03\19@164536 by Don McKenzie

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Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
>
> Arvid Jedlicka wrote:
>
> > >      Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus
> to a PIC
> > >      installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic
> about
> > >      connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it
> could work.
>
> It works. Watch out for :
> 1) Earth loops
> 2) Powering the target board with your PP+ (it won't work)
> 3) Long cables
> 4) Capacitance on your RB6 and RB7
> 5) Too small pull-up on MCLR. The PP+ won't be able to move the
> voltage.
> It may be better to power up the target board and not connect the Vdd
> from the PP+.

I have often thought of using one of those cheap A/B DB-25 switch boxes,
and installing the pic of your choice into the common position, just a
db25 connector to a pic socket, and using very short cables to make the
connections to the programmer and target board.

Don McKenzie  donspamspam_OUTdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
For more details, send a blank message to @spam@infoKILLspamspamdontronics.com
or KILLspamsimstickKILLspamspamdontronics.com or RemoveMEbasicsTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com

1998\03\19@173534 by wwl

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On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:22:42 -0600, you wrote:

>>      Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
>>      installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
>>      connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.
>
I've used it to blow ssop 16c711's - the problem is it that it doesn't
like to see much capacitance across the 5V supply - 4.7U was a
problem. Worked fine without the cap, or with external power to the
PIC. Wouldn't be hard to knock up a buffer - a single transistor would
probably do it.
    ____                                                           ____
  _/ L_/  Mike Harrison / White Wing Logic / spamBeGonewwlspamBeGonespamnetcomuk.co.uk  _/ L_/
_/ W_/  Hardware & Software design / PCB Design / Consultancy  _/ W_/
/_W_/  Industrial / Computer Peripherals / Hazardous Area      /_W_/

1998\03\20@000615 by Gregg Kricorissian

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Joe asked:
  >Has anyone tried making a cable to run from the PicStart Plus to a PIC
  >installed on a target board?  Unless there's something magic about
  >connection lengths, or crosstalk, or.... it seems like it could work.

Yes Joe, it can be made to work quite well if you observe various
precautions in your design, some of which are outlined in Microchip's
various articles on the topic.  In fact, from my experience the PicStart
Plus works much better than the original ProMate (the new ProMate, however
works well).

Here are some guidelines I've developed from hard experience:

1. Keep the ISP cable short: 6" to 8" max
2. Incorporate a switch or jumpers to isolate the MCLR and Vdd lines during
programing
3.  Microchip has a design for a buffer/driver interface.  I made one work,
but found it really isn't necesary if you do your target hardware design
right.
4.  Keep Rb6 and Rb7 as high impedance inputs, if you have to use them at
all in your design.  That way you won't have to use isolating jumpers on
them, and you'll be able to feed them directly from the programmer (a
lesson learned the hard way: the "data" line *must* be bi-birectional, and
there is no way to buffer it ... Microchip leaves it to you to find out).
5. With the target circuit in "program" mode (ie; jumpers pulled), keep the
capacitance across the PIC low (ie: make sure your bulk bypass cap is on
the "other side" of the isolating jumpers).  It's OK to leave your 100n cap
across the PIC.

Hope this helps,
.. Gregg

TakeThisOuTgrkricorEraseMEspamspam_OUTccs.carleton.ca

1998\03\20@000622 by tjaart

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Don McKenzie wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I'm not quite sure what you mean - can you explain it some more?

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
RemoveMEtjaartspamTakeThisOuTwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
|   Vehicle tracking | Telemetry systems | GSM data transfer  |
|    Voice : +27-(0)11-622-8686 | Fax : +27-(0)11-622-8973    |
|              WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E                 |
|_____________________________________________________________|

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