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PICList Thread
'PICList content not as bad as it appears - Some st'
1999\10\11@080222 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>> This list has really gone to the dogs.
>> Perhaps it will improve later, but somehow I doubt it.

>Unfortunate as it is.. I second that motion..
>The Signal has faded to almost nothing, ...

>I don't WANT to sit and wade thru 200 E-mails a day, just to see
>10 that have reasonable (Maybe not wanted, but reasonable) content.

I sympathise with the leavers and agree that there has been some fairly
unnaceptable stuff on the list lately - mainly in the personal abuse


things are probably not nearly as bad as they may seem.
In the last 34 days (since my latest mail file started (I have a year or 2
of older ones elsewhere if required for checking)

1.  There have been about 3700 messages
2.  There have been about 940 messages with [OT] in the title
       About 25%
       Easily filtered
3.  There have been about 690 posts with the word "PIC" in their title
       Many more ARE directly PIC related (see below)

Some of 3. are included in 2.
Some of 1. would have been OT but not a large percentage (I looked through
the titles).

Most of the non-OT marked topics look like the sort of technical material
that I would expect to meet on the PICList.
Here's a continuous alphabetic list (ie NO deletions) started from just
after "Cats!" (which was off-topic, unmarked as such and fairly inane as I
There were from one to many posts on each of these topics.

CCS/PCM PIC12C762 pullups
cheap hard disks [OT]
Cheap Linear potentiometer
Chip Finder
Chip on board assembly (wire bonding)
chipfind website
class D audio amplifier
Cmos Digital Camera
column of dots LED?
Compiling an assembly file for a Microchip EEPROM
Controlling Brushless DC motors
Controlling MOTORS without encoder!!
Cost of surface mount devices
Counter 0 to 999
Counter 0 to 999  and 74HC164
Dallas DS1307Z
data over DC power lines
Decoding LEGO remote control
Digital Data Logger needs LPT specs
Ding Dong!
Ding Dong! I2C calling!
disassemble hex
Dissimilar metals
Doing percentage or ratio
Doing percentage or ratio-Thanks [error correction]

I notice that neither Tjaart or Brad chose to put [OT] in the title of their
posts :-)
But, do come back again at some future date Tjaart, we'll genuinely miss
(Brad I don't know but Y'all are most welcome to come join the party if/when
our SNR again gets high enough ).

come back soon,

     Russell McMahon

>From another world -

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))

{Original Message removed}

1999\10\11@123816 by Mark Willis

My perception of what people are unhappy about, is [OT] posts that
aren't about TECHNICAL issues, but wander into Sports, pet preferences,
religion, politics, history, Car brand preferences, etc. etc....

The thought I came up with is that we might split the current OT
category, into 2 pieces, plus have a PIC related topic;

If we implement the Subcategories for the PICList in the L-Soft list
engine, and give it these 3 categories, it might help some people:

[PICs]  For PIC-related posts
[Tech]  For technical, non-PIC-related posts
[Fluff] For everything else.  (From the point of view of someone who
doesn't want to HEAR politics/religion, that sort of thing's Fluff - I
figure this category will remind people of that.)

Posts with the subcategory thing turned on would be ignored if they
didn't have a proper subcategory, of course.  The L-Soft engine wouldn't
pass improperly formed posts to the list.

(Add to that, drawing and quartering anyone who posts political or
religious stuff in a post that isn't marked just strictly [Fluff], and
some'll be happier - Boy, what it takes to please SOME people!  <G>)

 Mark (Need to get to the Survey today, got the stove so I'll have heat
here later this week, it's cold in here just now!)

1999\10\12@095033 by Andres Tarzia


I like this. You have to FORCE people into using proper categories markers
in the subject line. Only tell us WHEN this starts working...

Andres Tarzia
Technology Consultant, SMART S.A.

{Original Message removed}

1999\10\12@111528 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Oh `gawd' I wanted to stay out of this but I can no longer resist, so
I'll pick on Mark ;-)

  I'll admit that I'm surprised at the number of long-time members of this
list that have recently left. I hope this is temporary or maybe they are
moving on to other interests.

  Most of us have mail readers that allow you to sort by subject. When you
see a subject you are not interested in, ignore it... I don't use "[OT]"
filters because there are some very good discussions in those topics. I
think folks are too sensitive to "[OT]". When you are working with embedded
controllers, subjects ranging from blinking a LED to a rectal thermometer
for use with cattle, are all very much; `On-Topic'...

  I don't think that "[OT]", or any variant, will do any good. Though we
come from different countries and speak different languages, there is one
thing we all have in common; We are human beings. Topics will `wander'...

  Let me ask you folks; When you are at work, do you always talk about your
design or do you talk about other subjects on occasion? Hey, that's "[OT]"!
I'm reminded of four of us in a `cube', leaning over a VT100, waiting on a
C compiler, talking about scuba diving, fishing, flying, and the time I got
stuck in the elevator with Paula who worked upstairs in finance ;-)

  Finally, consider this; When you ask a question here, think about your
audience... Your question is being read by folks from around the planet,
with a `wealth' of expertise. Though there are many familiar names here,
many new names show up when a question applies to their area of expertise.

  I think it's time to stop complaining about "[OT]" and remember what an
asset this list really is...

  - Tom

At 09:37 AM 10/11/99 -0700, Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

  Geesh Mark, did you move into a tent out on the peninsula? ;-)

Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

1999\10\12@114649 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Hey Mark, what is the real possibilities to implement a customized
profile at the listserver for the list members? So one can program not
to receive [Fluff] messages? and so on...  I think this should be a real
"boost", since it saves traffic time at the listserv and solve forever
this "mail filters" at member's mail engines.


1999\10\12@114850 by Nick Taylor

picon face
Well said Tom.  Let's hope that people listen and learn!
- Nick -

Tom Handley wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\10\12@193507 by Mark Willis

I've had worse picking done to me before.

We'll see on the folks who left;  As things change here, other people
will come visit, maybe some previous good people will be back.

Self-control would be good, but some here seem to (sometimes) have a
problem with it;  We (Admins & some others)'re talking about the
situation, seeing what to do.  I still like my "Quatloo" idea, where if
people like your post, they credit you with some of their Quatloos, and
if they don't like it, they fine you, sadly, though, the server software
doesn't have this "unique" feature implemented.  Drat!

I think Jory's pretty busy (I know I am, this move's a bear!), so I'm
thinking about automated solutions, also.


Tom Handley wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\10\12@193707 by Mark Willis

Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Either Jory, or I, would have to update the "control" file for the list,
adding the appropriate categories, and enabling this feature.  Many are
suggesting we just delete "fluff" from the list entirely, there are
other lists for that sort of thing.  (I think Sig lines are enough space
for personal opinions, and should be considered "safe", even if we throw
out all "fluff" - but, 'Tis Jory's list <G>)

One caveat:  Users would have to *re-train* themselves, as any post to
the list without a proper category in place would go into the
Bit-Bucket, not even being returned to the sender.  Each of the users
would have to set those categories they wanted to receive, ON, via a
message to the list server.  Then filtering (of this sort) is done
e-mail's sent out to list members.


1999\10\14@041204 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Mark, please don't change things...

  If you try and `compartmentalize' topics or implement "Quatloo"s, this
list will, like the tomatoes in my garden this time of year, `die on the

  Hell Mark, we are both experienced Sysops and Moderators. Think about the
`Sysop days' when we `begged' for new users and new ideas. This can only
happen in a free and open environment. Of course you have to be vigilant
when it comes to personal, racial, or ethnic, attacks. You also have to make
a judgment-call on what is appropriate for this BBS/Forum/List. This is
always the tough part...

  Put the `burden' of filtering messages on the members of this list. It's
`absolutely trivial' to `sort and ignore' message subjects... What one
person considers "[OT]" another may find helpful.

  And for folks who want Jory and Mark to manage topics, consider their
workload and consider the fact that they don't get payed for this...

  - Tom

At 04:34 PM 10/12/99 -0700, Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

{Quote hidden}

Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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