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PICList Thread
'PICLIST: should it be splitted?'
1997\11\17@145803 by Cesare.Lavazza

flavicon
face
This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).

Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
it will be an intelligent idea.

For example:

PICSOURCES
PICAPPLICATION

etc. What do you think?
--
Saluti.

----------------------------------------------------
E-mail: spam_OUTCesare.LavazzaTakeThisOuTspamnemo.it
WWW:    http://radionostalgia.net/Users/Lavazza/

1997\11\17@212827 by netwave

picon face
I agree.

Cesare Lavazza wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\11\17@220418 by Mroczkowski

picon face
IF the PICLIST is split, where would the dividing line be drawn?

I lurk a lot and enjoy most of the postings and would subscribe to each
generation.  The so-called line would be arbitrary.

However, if it would happen, I suggest a FORMAL and a CASUAL split.  This
would satisfy the water-cooler urge for gossip and let the AR's have their
stiff and formal (and terse) technical protocol ;^))

Everyone could be happy?

-Cheers, Hank

{Original Message removed}

1997\11\17@231717 by Chris Mayhew

flavicon
face
This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).

Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
it will be an intelligent idea.

For example:

PICSOURCES
PICAPPLICATION

etc. What do you think?
--
Saluti.

----------------------------------------------------
E-mail: Cesare.LavazzaspamKILLspamnemo.it
WWW:    http://radionostalgia.net/Users/Lavazza/




A very good idea - i left my email uncleared for about 60 hours and found
308 mails

1997\11\18@001704 by Giles L. Honeycutt

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face
I am all for some kind of split.  I am about ready to drop the list
because I just don't have the time to keep up with the flow.
Perhaps someone with the know-how could start up some specialized
pic lists.. I would much prefer to belong to something smaller.
(no offence, but time is short and it is getting dark early now)

--
          Giles L. Honeycutt
          .....gilesamiKILLspamspam.....ix.netcom.com

1997\11\18@002307 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
I admit that the volume of mail from the list is almost overwhelming,
especially at 14.4 Kbps, but I do not know how one would go about deciding
which of the two resultant lists to send his mail to. There are really many
different categories of mail that I see here:
- Beginner PIC questions (FAQ type stuff)
- Advanced PIC questions (specific questions related to PIC programming,
PIC hardware, etc.)
- PIC-related questions (questions about a non-PIC part of a PIC based
       project)
- non-PIC related electronics questions
- really-OT  stuff (i.e. talking about people/sheep from New Zealand,    etc.)
- the ever-popular piclist politics (like the message you are reading
right now)

Actually, messages from the first two categories represent less than 10% of
the traffic (in my estimation). How many people are really only interested
in the first two categories?? I know that for me, I learn a great deal
about electronics by reading the messages from the third and fourth
categories. I would say that the last two categories represent about 25-50%
depending on what threads are going at any one time. These could be
eliminated, and I don't think that people would really mind. I do not
think, though, that an occasional funny comment tacked on to the end of a
thread is harmful, or would take up too much bandwidth.

Sean




At 04:40 PM 11/18/97 +1300, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
Web Page Under Construction!
shb7spamspam_OUTcornell.edu

1997\11\18@014440 by tjaart

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face
Just a thought here, but if the list was plit up, wouldn't
everybody end up subscribing to all the lists anyway? Multiply
all the "UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE" messages by the number of extra
lists, and the benefits do seem to wither, don't they?

All the members more or less share the same needs and interests.
The fact that this list is so active, and has so many members
means that we must be doing something right...

The OT threads are almost always amusing, if not informative.
(Even though I'm a married man, the NZ sheep thread was
interesting <BG>)

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
@spam@tjaartKILLspamspamwasp.co.za
_____________________________________________________________
| WASP International http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html |
|       R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development    |
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|_____________________________________________________________|

1997\11\18@015854 by Pasi T Mustalahti

picon face
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Cesare Lavazza wrote:

> This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).
> Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
> it will be an intelligent idea.
>
> For example:
>
> PICSOURCES
> PICAPPLICATION

PTM: these might be needed too:
PICLIST_OT and
PICLIST_FOR_THE_ABSOLUT_BEGINING_BEGINER_ASKING_FUNNIES

>
> etc. What do you think?
> --
> Saluti.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> E-mail: KILLspamCesare.LavazzaKILLspamspamnemo.it
> WWW:    http://radionostalgia.net/Users/Lavazza/
>

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1997\11\18@035425 by wky

flavicon
face
On 17 Nov 97 at 20:45, Cesare Lavazza wrote:

> This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).
...
> PICSOURCES
> PICAPPLICATION

You forgot the biggest group:

 PICOFFTOPIC

I would really appreciate if all posters
could use the  [OT]  marker for their
not strictly PIC releated postings.

Regards,
Wolfgang

--

1997\11\18@092623 by Charles Laforge

picon face
I deleted the original message but heres what I think.  If you're gonna
split the list you might as well split it into three categories. What
were the first two?  Sources and applications right.  Now your third
category should be "bitch about the PIC list, bitching about bamdwidth,
bitching about binaries and all other bitches and complaints. By only
subscribing to the first two I'm positive I will reduce the mail in my
box by 50%.

Enough for now...

Charles



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

1997\11\18@101135 by Glenn Johansson

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face
part 0 413 bytes
The real intention with a mailing list is so that posters can force messages upon others through their e-mail, if the topic is important enough (for example an important discovery or to ask an important question since the answer can't be found anywhere else).

For less important topics, NEWSGROUPS or other forums should be used, where people can seek up messages only if they are interested.

Glenn
Sweden




1997\11\18@102637 by Dennis Merrill

flavicon
face
I for one, enjoy the high activity level of the piclist.  PIC's by
themselves are really not that interesting.  It's much more fun when we are
discussing applications for them and different ways of doing things (like
the robot lawnmower).  Let's face it, threads that discuss solely PIC
programming are only about 5% of the messages.  I enjoy interacting with
people from all over the world and reading about their engineering problems
- and the responses usually open up my ideas to whole new ways of thought!
I think that removing the 'social' aspect of the piclist would be a shame.

                                               - Dennis

P.S. Although I could do without all of the UNSUBSCRIBE ME PLEASE SIR
messages :)

1997\11\18@110807 by ndie Ohtsji [4555]

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face
I think I would wind up subscribing to both lists anyways and possibly
sending a relevant message to BOTH groups as sometimes I have questions
regarding both topics or there is too fine line between the two to only
send to one list.  For people like me who would subscribe to both, I think
it would mean even MORE mail.

I learn a lot of things (even things I don't want to know about) through
some of the postings.  I admit, that some of the really OT subjects don't
do much for me, but I just hit the delete button before reading too much.
It's not that bad....really.

-Randie
                                   ________
  Randie Ohtsji                   / ____/ /__  ____  ____ ___  _________
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  Vancouver, B.C.  CANADA       \____/_/\___/_/ /_/\__,_/\__  /_/  \___/
  Phone: (604) 293-1611 x4555      ________________________/ /
  Fax:   (604) 293-4317           /_________________________/




>Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
>it will be an intelligent idea.
>
>For example:
>
>PICSOURCES
>PICAPPLICATION
>
>etc. What do you think?

1997\11\18@113853 by Frank Schmalz

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face
At 20:45 17.11.97 +0100, you wrote:
>This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).
>
>Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
>it will be an intelligent idea.
>
>For example:
>
>PICSOURCES
>PICAPPLICATION
>

I don't like the idea. I would end up in subscribing to all of the lists
with the disadvantages already mentioned by Tjaart.
-Cut down the real OT stuff. (sheep e.t.c)
in this point I am of the same opinion as Sean Breheney, who wrote:
--snip---
categories. I would say that the last two categories (OT and politics)
represent about 25-50% depending on what threads are going at any one time.
These could be eliminated, and I don't think that people would really mind.
I do not think, though, that an occasional funny comment tacked on to the
end of a thread is harmful, or would take up too much bandwidth.
--snip---
-Some discussions would be a lot shorter if phrases like "you stupid" or
"you moron" (whatever that is ;) ) would not be used. I am not subscribed
to : "How to call somebody names in English"






         Franky X.
----------------------------------------------------------
                       RemoveMEschmalzspamTakeThisOuTmailserv.rz.fh-muenchen.de

1997\11\18@124813 by David W. Duley

picon face
In a message dated 97-11-18 02:56:32 EST, you write:

<<
> This mailing list is becoming too large (100 messages daily).
> Should someone split it into two related lists? I think
> it will be an intelligent idea.
>
> For example:
>
> PICSOURCES
> PICAPPLICATION

PTM: these might be needed too:
PICLIST_OT and
PICLIST_FOR_THE_ABSOLUT_BEGINING_BEGINER_ASKING_FUNNIES
 >>
You left off whinning_about_the_pic_list.
Where the hell is the List police when you need them!

1997\11\18@165427 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
I say AMEN!

This is exactly my sentiments also.


At 09:20 AM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
Web Page Under Construction!
shb7EraseMEspam.....cornell.edu

1997\11\18@181127 by Ron Kreymborg

flavicon
face
Splitted?? Like Tjaart, if the list was split I would subscribe to the
new sub-lists because I am interested in ALL the threads. I would arrange
my mailer so all the pic mail dropped into the one folder, and so for me
the only change would be different reply-to headers which I could safely
ignore. The list suits me as it is, but if others would like to split
the list for good reasons, that's ok by me too.

Ron

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
> Just a thought here, but if the list was plit up, wouldn't
> everybody end up subscribing to all the lists anyway? Multiply
<snip>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ron Kreymborg                   Computer Systems Manager
Monash University               CRC for Southern Hemisphere Meteorology
Wellington Road
Clayton, VIC 3168               Phone     : 061-3-9905-9671
Australia                       Fax       : 061-3-9905-9689
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1997\11\18@194841 by Ram Krishnan

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yes, sp  lit.

1997\11\18@195720 by Dmitry Kiryashov

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Ron Kreymborg wrote:

> Splitted?? Like Tjaart, if the list was split I would subscribe to the
> new sub-lists because I am interested in ALL the threads. I would arrange
> my mailer so all the pic mail dropped into the one folder, and so for me
> the only change would be different reply-to headers which I could safely
> ignore. The list suits me as it is, but if others would like to split
> the list for good reasons, that's ok by me too.

I also think there are no reason to split piclist.
Sometimes messages with [OT] subject give a new idea for me.

WBR Dmitry.

1997\11\18@211912 by Steve Baldwin

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One way to halve the volume of messages to the list would be to kill this
thread.

Re: Binaries. - Somebody posted a binary. Oops !
That person isn't likely to do it again and anyone else might like to post
a message asking if someone with better facilities would mind helping to
distribute it.

Re: OT subjects.
This is a list dedicated to a particular type of microcontroller.
Microcontrollers get used in all sorts of situations. If we weren't
interested in interacting with the real world, we'd be writing Windows
software. IMHO, if it bolts onto a PIC it's on topic.

BTW. In 7 years on the net, this is the first list I've seen with the [OT]
convention. Damn good idea.

These are my opinions in digest form. Extended ear-bashings available on
request.

Steve.

1997\11\19@035917 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message  <EraseME199711190315.QAA17772spamkcbbs.gen.nz> RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
> One way to halve the volume of messages to the list would be to kill this
> thread.
True.

[snips]
> Re: OT subjects.
> This is a list dedicated to a particular type of microcontroller.
> Microcontrollers get used in all sorts of situations. If we weren't
> interested in interacting with the real world, we'd be writing Windows
> software.

Some of us do both, of course.


IMHO, if it bolts onto a PIC it's on topic.
>
I agree, but how far removed from the PIC can you go. For example,
we use a PIC to generate sine waves that are used to excite LVDTs.
So should we be discussing how LVDTs work?

Further away, we use PICs all over our materials testing machine
controllers (but not for the main processor I hasten to add as there
is a competitor or two on the list) would it be reasonable to discuss
fracture toughness, stress relaxation, tensile tests etc on the
***PIC***List?

Both examples are indirectly connected with PICs, but I think that
the second is too far off topic and there are other places on the
net where these things can be discussed.

My point again is that the [OT] convention can be used as an excuse
to post wildly off-topic questions. It really isn't a big deal, though.

Putting another point in this, one of the reasons, I believe, that this
list is popular and off topic questions are posted is that there is
such a wealth of experience and diversity here that I have not found
anywhere else.


Regards,


Mike Watson

1997\11\19@090945 by Aydin Yesildirek

flavicon
face
I vote for NO.

I don't believe anyone will benefit from splitting the list,
although categories not specified yet. It will turn the list into
that of motorola's, not many audience.

If we have sources and app. sublists as suggested, many people will
subscribe to both. For most only difference will be that some
messages posted twice increasing the incoming mail.

IMHO, this will not help to get rid off  [OT] which I find useful
myself. Unsubscribe email requests will still be there. For beginners
repeating same questions, if you have a newbee list not many people
will listen it and it may shortly become useless and die out. Then we
may see the same newbee questions distributed into multiple pic
sublists.

I think we may worsen the case by splitting the list.

Aydin

PS: I see that there many PIC FAQs around. Is it possible to have
single unified official :) PIC FAQ residing on a web page and pointed
out regularly on the list for newcomers, including the etiquette,
do's and don'ts?

1997\11\19@104302 by Bruce Cannon

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face
Its size is annoying, I agree, that's also its value.  I'd just have to
subscribe to all the technical threads, as would many I assume.

How about 1. filtering the piclist into a folder of its own, 2. sorting by
topic and trashing unread any topic that doesn't interest you?  3. deleting
the whole thing every other day, etc...?

At 11:12 PM 11/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Bruce Cannon
Style Management Systems
Remember: Electronics is changing your world...for good!

1997\11\19@114956 by engelec

picon face
I vote for NO.

I do not see any reason to split the piclist.
PIC always controls some thing. How can you talk about pic only if your
always
communicating with other devices. If you have a question about your
project pic+
other devices connected together how would you do this send 2 e-mails
one for {ot}
the other for pic?




Andre

1997\11\20@001322 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
One way to "split" the list that might work is to have a moderated subset.
The moderator ("editor") would delete off-topic, FAQ, and uninteresting
messages, leaving behind a smaller subset that would be forwarded off to
the pickier subscribers.  I doubt that there are any volunteers for this,
and I doubt that very many people are willing to pay for the service
(consider "microprocessor report", which might be considered an in-depth
summary of comp.architecture or whatever, and sells for $700/year per
subscription.)

Microchip might consider it in their own interest to assign someone to
do this and provide a "moderated list" as a website or somesuch (a sort
of one-newsgroup private nntp server?)  The mechanics could be relatively
simple, especially since they already have employees reading the list.
Of course, some posters may feel that having their messages show up on
a commercial site to be unacceptable, opening a political can of worms.

BillW

1997\11\21@185742 by Pierce Nichols

flavicon
face
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Dennis Merrill wrote:

> I for one, enjoy the high activity level of the piclist.  PIC's by
> themselves are really not that interesting.  It's much more fun when we are
> discussing applications for them and different ways of doing things (like
> the robot lawnmower).  Let's face it, threads that discuss solely PIC
> programming are only about 5% of the messages.  I enjoy interacting with
> people from all over the world and reading about their engineering problems
> - and the responses usually open up my ideas to whole new ways of thought!
> I think that removing the 'social' aspect of the piclist would be a shame.

       I have to agree with Dennis here -- the best part of this list is
the fact that it's not all code samples; most of it is about the things we
actually do with these nifty little devices, which IMNSHO is somewhat more
interesting than just programming discussions. Any discussion of
programming without discussion of applications is pretty sterile.

       -pn

"I have a work order for the immediate demolition of your reality tunnel."

       -Bob, RAW Construction Corp.

--Begin Geek Code Block--|------Begin Goth Code Block------
v3.12                    |v3.1
GAT[GCS,GS] d-@ s+: !a   |GoCS2)$PS3$ TJtAn PGL B10Bk!
c++@>$ u+>+++>$ P+>+     |CDbrp8S V6s M4 ZGoPuExgExtClMe
L+>++ E+>+ W+ N++ !o K+  |C7ome a20 n5F b56 h180 g6T??95F/A
W-- O- M- V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ |m1Ea@Z3? w6TA V3 r6EP p54565Rd
PGP t+@ 5+ X++ R+[GURPS] |D37 h6 sM9P SsYy k6Z N??91OE
[DARKSUN] !tv b++>+ D I+ |RfsS Lus9
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---------------End Magick Code Block------------------

1997\11\25@144045 by W.E. van Bemmel

picon face
Can anyone explain me what that [OT] convention is about? New here...

Wim van Bemmel.

Steve Baldwin wrote:

{Quote hidden}


'PICLIST: should it be splitted?'
1997\12\01@122643 by Martin R. Green
flavicon
face
I gotta disagree with this.  A mailing list is, like a newsgroup, just
a discussion forum, but without the huge amount of advertising and job
posting crap found in the groups.  I subscribe to this list
specifically because I value the ideas I get by reading other peoples
discussions, and I gave up on the newsgroups several years ago.

A couple of messages a day?  That is a list that is about to disappear
into oblivion.

CIAO - Martin.

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:36:54 +0100, Glenn Johansson
<RemoveMEglennTakeThisOuTspamspamWRITEME.COM> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Martin R. Green
EraseMEmrgreenspamspamspamBeGoneNOSPAMbigfoot.com

To reply, remove the NOSPAM from the return address.
Stamp out SPAM everywhere!!!

1997\12\02@194308 by Marc Heuler

flavicon
face
Hi Chris (Chris Mayhew), in <RemoveME1.5.4.32.19971118034006.0068b904KILLspamspambopis.co.nz> on Nov 18 you wrote:

> PICSOURCES
> PICAPPLICATION
>
> etc. What do you think?

What about PICTRICKS?

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