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PICList Thread
'PIC to help our girlfriends'
1998\06\11@073156 by Leonardo De Palo

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face
Hi,
as the subject seems not serious, my proposal to the PIC comunity should be
very serious.
I have been a request from a girl sounding like this "Is possible to build a
battery powered depilator, to remove unwanted hair"
My answer was YES! Because I was thinking at the depilator used at the
beauty center, but after some research I do not fount the voltage, frequency
and duration value to be used use to remove electricaly the hair.

As our comunity of PICer is large, with a lot of competence and experience
in different areas, my idea is:

Can we open a discussione to analyze all the aspect like, safety, voltage,
current ecc. of a new electronic depilator based on 16F84 and called "PIC
DEPILATOR"?

This knoledgment can be used to build a working prototype of PIC DEPILATOR?

regards

Leonardo

1998\06\11@084957 by alex_holden

picon face
This is almost as funny as the 555 powered PIC emulator.
If you sharpened the top edge of a JW package and glued it to a stick,
you could make a primitive (or is it highly advanced?) cutthroat razor:

/-----\                     /\
|     |                    / /
|     |                   / /
-------                  / /
/       \                / /
|       |               / /
|  MP-  |              / /
| FOAM  |             / /
|       |          /\/ /
|       |         /  \/
|       |        /    \
|       |       /     /\
---------      /  O  /\
             /     /\
             \    /\
              \  /\
               \/\
                \

I suspect the plastic package of a 16F84 would not keep an edge as well
as the ceramic package of a JW device.

Leonardo De Palo wrote:
> Can we open a discussione to analyze all the aspect like, safety, voltage,
> current ecc. of a new electronic depilator based on 16F84 and called "PIC
> DEPILATOR"?
>
> This knoledgment can be used to build a working prototype of PIC DEPILATOR?

--
--------------- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. --------------
: Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham :
---------- http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1532/ ---------

1998\06\11@110511 by Keith Howell

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Leonardo,

I'm an electronic engineer.
What's a girlfriend?
They sound hairy.
:-)

If you have one, surely you have more enjoyable things to do
than chat with cyber-nerds on the net? :-)

There is already an easy way to get rid of unwanted bikini-line hair.
Spit it out!

If you like making battery powered electronic items for girls,
how about a PIC-driven vibrator? You could make it far smaller
with more features than an organic penis, and if you sell it by
mail order, you can tell people to allow 28 days for it to come!

Yours non-too-seriously, KH

1998\06\11@180545 by Leonardo De Palo

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face
Hi,

Keith, I can understand that the argument can generate hilarity and can be
take at the first approach not seriously.
Also, if you consider that the english language is not my mother language
and writing about girls, hair, battery powered and device, the general
hilarity is easy to explode.

But now, becaming serious, the business of the depilator is big. In my
country is selled a permanent hair removal caming from Cordoba - Argentina,
at the equivalent price of 3.500 US dollars.

This apparatus, (reading the technical description) are able to generate a
variable tension between 200 and 800 Volt, with  45 milliampere at 1 Mhz.
The front panel have a timer and a couple pushbutton to increase or decrease
the power at the tweezer.

This device is powered from main line at 220 volt, and as you know any
medical or paramedical device should be powered by batteries to avoid any
potential injury of the patience

No other technical information I' able to obtain.


The spit out  at the bikini-line of the hair is not my primary job, (I'm
thinking to consider it) but I know the removal is not permanet.

Using current at high frequency the bulb of the hair is permanent destroied.


My call of PIC DEPILATOR is for discuss about the value of the current, the
frequency (fixed or sweeped) the time and other unknow parameter and the way
to use the PIC to controll all the function of the apparatus.

Yours more seriously :- |

Leonardo




-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Keith Howell <spam_OUTkeithhTakeThisOuTspamARCAM.CO.UK>
A: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: gioved“ 11 giugno 1998 16.13
Oggetto: Re: PIC to help our girlfriends


{Quote hidden}

1998\06\12@060539 by Keith Howell

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Leonardo De Palo wrote:

> writing about girls, hair, battery powered and device, the general
> hilarity is easy to explode.

The word "explode" makes me nervous.

> But now, becaming serious, the business of the depilator is big.
> In my country is selled a permanent hair removal caming from Cordoba
> Argentina, at the equivalent price of 3.500 US dollars.

Three _thousand_ five hundred??!! Or three bucks fifty cents?

> This apparatus ... generate 200 to 800 Volt, 45 milliampere at 1 Mhz.

Ouch!

A small bulb lights inside my head (metaphorically)...

South America... electricity... humans...

The people selling this 'apparatus': are they connected in some way
with the more military-oriented governments and their security
people? Does the apparatus include a wooden chair and strong leather
straps?

> This device is powered from main line at 220 volt

Doesn't this sound a suspiciously... _large_ power source?

> The spit out at the bikini-line of the hair is not my primary job

Nor mine, but then I've not seen any employment ads for it either.

> Using current at high frequency the
> bulb of the hair is permanent destroyed.

And perhaps the owner?

Well I wish you luck in in your endeavours to apply
the electrodes of enlightenment to the nipples of ignorance!

1998\06\14@215522 by Ingmar Meins

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If you can supply a suitable blonde or brunette prototype, for purely scientific
testing of course, then I'm sure us Aussie PIC users would be happy to assist
!!!

Ingmar ;)


Leonardo De Palo wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1998\06\14@215531 by paulb

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Leonardo De Palo wrote:

> This apparatus, (reading the technical description) is able to
> generate a variable voltage between 200 and 800 Volt, with 45
> milliampere at 1 Mhz.

 That calculates to 36 watts maximum.  Since it is my profession, I can
tell you with some accuracy that that power level will burn a quarter
inch diameter hole in you inside of two seconds (or should that be
"inside of you"?).

 However, it is probable that it represents the short circuit current
limit, in which case the peak output power into the load calculates at
a quarter of this or nine watts.  That still does quite a bit of damage!

 In practice, the traditional method is to needle the hair follicle to
apply the current, requiring considerable skill and care.  The obvious
approach of applying the voltage to the hair itself is limited by the
fact that it is a rather good insulator.  It has a miniscule hollow core
however, so a high voltage may deliver sufficient power to destroy the
hair follicle.  I would expect the hair to burn out like a fuse at the
same time!  The danger is that such a high voltage can easily arc to the
adjacent skin, or the operator touch the skin anyway.

> The front panel has a timer and a couple pushbutton to increase or
> decrease the power at the tweezer.

 It thus sounds plausible that the timer is used to deliver a
single fractional-second burst with each depression of the trigger.
Diathermy "coagulation" current is indeed modulated, traditionally in
down-ramping pulses ("ringing" of a resonant circuit excited by large
impulses).  This contrasts with "cutting" current which is CW, throwing
sparks which explode individual cells on contact.  Coagulation just
cooks the tissue, but if strong enough, chars and burns it away.

 If there's a message in this, it is that there seems to be a major
S&M element in this depilation stuff, easily on a par with tattoo (but
then the good clinics do that too!).

> This device is powered from main line at 220 volt, and as you know any
> medical or paramedical device should be powered by batteries to avoid
> any potential injury to the patient

 You *could* power it by gel-cells to avoid a lot of problems with
isolation design and certification.  Although significant, the power
must, given the above considerations (e.g. pain), be limited to small
bursts at a time.  Usual trick is to use the same socket for the working
electrodes and the charger to guarantee only one function is used at any
one time.

> The spit out at the bikini-line of the hair is not my primary job,
> (I'm thinking to consider it) but I know the removal is not permanent.

 I'm not sure, Leonardo, whether your English is sufficient to have
twigged that the phenomenon referred to (in a "tongue-in-cheek" or
joking fashion) here was *accidental* pickup of hairs in the mouth
whilst engaging in an activity on the bikini line whose prime intention
was other than hair removal.

> My call of PIC DEPILATOR is for discuss about the value of the
> current,

 Controlled by controlling voltage

> the frequency (fixed or swept)

 *Must* be fixed, should be about 460kHz; there is a specification for
this.  *Not* 1MHz which is in the middle of the AM radio band and would
make you extrremely unpopular extremely fast.

 Using RF *does* make the transformers very light, but the reason for
using it is *actually* that there is no effect on tissue other than ...
heating.  The simple "do-it-yourself" electrolysis (correctly named in
this case) kits FWIW consist of a 9V battery, current limiting resistor,
grounding plate as part of the casing (grounding has not been mentioned
so far) and forceps or whatever.  To the extent that they might work, it
is by delivering a current too low to feel, for a much longer time.

 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\06\14@215551 by Wim E. van Bemmel

picon face
Most hilareous, this discussion, though is has certenly interesting points..

What amuses me is that the word "PIC", though spelled "pik", but pronounced
the same, means what in english would be called "cock".
So to us Dutch we are discussing the features of a cock epilator..


Keith Howell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
 Regards,

 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 Wim E. van Bemmel
 No Unsollicited Commercial .....bemspanKILLspamspam.....xs4all.nl
 Life is about Interfacing ....
 ------------------------------------------------------------------

1998\06\14@221237 by Josef Hanzal

flavicon
face
> Can we open a discussione to analyze all the aspect like, safety, voltage,
> current ecc. of a new electronic depilator based on 16F84 and called "PIC
> DEPILATOR"?

I would suggest dePICator...

Josef

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