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PICList Thread
'PIC Programmers'
1994\05\26@092854 by rca

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Hello all,

I'm doing a degree in Information Technology at would like to get into
programming PICs.

I've obtained a copy of the MICROCHIP data book and details of their
development kits. Unfortunatly I cannot really afford the development kit, I
was looking at the PICSTART-16B at 125 UK pounds. Especially as I think I
can get assemblers etc. for my PC of the net and already have the data book.

SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.

Alternatively does anyone in the UK have an "old" programmer that they want
to pass onto a student cheaply?

Thanks for any help you give,

Rafe

----------------------------------------------------------------
Rafe Aldridge - spam_OUTrcaTakeThisOuTspamsirius.tn.rl.ac.uk
R65, Rutherford Appleton Lab,                      wwWWww
Chilton, Oxon, OX11 OQX, UK.                        o  o
------------------------------------------------ooO--(__)--Ooo--


1994\05\26@141609 by Peter Knight

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On Thu, 26 May 1994, Rafe Aldridge wrote:

> SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
> program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.

I can throughly recommend 'pic84pgm.zip' off the Microchip BBS, or
available via Circuit Cookbook on ftp -
bode.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip

Its a very easy to make PC based PIC16C84 programmer.

(I have to admit - I havent actually tried it yet - My first batch of
PIC17C84's is still on back order... :-(  )

Peter
-
Peter Knight      Email: .....p.j.knightKILLspamspam@spam@uk.ac.bradford      Mono: Cathedrow
                                          _  _          _            _
Who says you can't display letters on a 7 |   _| |_ |_  |_| _|  _  _  _|
segment display? OK, so you can't do a W..|_ |_| |_ | | |_ |_| |  |_| _|



1994\05\26@203647 by Tom

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picon face
> Date:          Thu, 26 May 1994 19:12:14 +0100 (BST)
> From:          Peter Knight <P.J.KnightspamKILLspambradford.ac.uk>
> Subject:       Re: PIC Programmers
> To:            Rafe Aldridge <.....rcaKILLspamspam.....sirius.tn.rl.ac.uk>
> Cc:            EraseMEpicspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTfigment.mit.edu

> On Thu, 26 May 1994, Rafe Aldridge wrote:
>
> > SO, does anyone know of a cheaper programmer? Ideally it will be able to
> > program 16C5X, 16C71 and 16C84 devices and be PC based.
>
> I can throughly recommend 'pic84pgm.zip' off the Microchip BBS, or
> available via Circuit Cookbook on ftp -
> bode.ee.ualberta.ca:/pub/cookbook/comp/ibm/pic84pgm.zip
>
This won't handle the 16C5X series, but I'm currently designing
something for that. :-)
Catch22 ?               It uses a <pre-programmed> PIC.     <g>
Not to panic, I'll make it available at cost<ish>,  that is, to
people that talk nice to me. :-)
--
Cheers
                                     Tom



'pic programmers'
1995\08\26@102645 by Mike Jennings
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Hi All
I am going to ask a very literal question. What programmer can be used to
program 16c5x series and 16c6xx series of micros. Keep in mind the home
project makers budget.

I have a programmer circuit for the pic16c84 already in the making (by david
tait).

Thanks
       Mike

1995\08\26@112216 by Don McKenzie

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On Sat, 26 Aug 1995, Mike Jennings wrote:

> Hi All
> I am going to ask a very literal question. What programmer can be used to
> program 16c5x series and 16c6xx series of micros. Keep in mind the home
> project makers budget.
>
> I have a programmer circuit for the pic16c84 already in the making (by david
> tait).
>
> Thanks
>         Mike
>

Silicon Studios I believe will soon have a low cost PCB that will do most
PIC variants on one board, all driven from a parallel printer port. Covers
18, 28, and 40 pin devices.

They can be contacted at:

                                     Silicon Studio
sisspamspam_OUTrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500
ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001
http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia
----------------------------------------------------------


Hope this helps, Don...

Don McKenzie                ~~   _--_|\    ~~   Email: @spam@donmckKILLspamspamtbsa.com.au
29 Ellesmere Cres.,         ~~  /      `\  ~~   Phone:   + 61 3 9338 6286
Tullamarine 3043 Australia  ~~ (         ) ~~  Mobile:   + 61 019 939 799
(10 Miles from Melbourne)   ~~  \/~^~\_@/  ~~   Same address for 21 years
                                      v

1995\08\27@134735 by Chris Sakkas

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>Hi All
>I am going to ask a very literal question. What programmer can be used to
>program 16c5x series and 16c6xx series of micros. Keep in mind the home
>project makers budget.
>
>I have a programmer circuit for the pic16c84 already in the making (by david
>tait).
>
>Thanks
>        Mike

My company makes a programmer for the PIC 16C6x/7x/8x microcontrollers.  We
have a kit that includes the pcb, parts, cable, power supply and our
software for only $29.  If you would like more details, please e-mail me or
have a look at our web page!

Thanks!

Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris B. Sakkas (KILLspamcsakkasKILLspamspamiglou.com)  http://www.iglou.com/ITU
ITU Technologies (RemoveMEITUTecTakeThisOuTspamaol.com)    ftp://iglou.com/members/ITU
Complete PIC programming packages starting at only $29!
See our web page or e-mail us today for more info!

1995\08\30@113346 by Siegfried Grob

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Hi all,

I know that PIC programmers was a frequently discussed matter lately. Anyway
I have some questions:

I need a programmer suitable for In Circuit Programming of all PICs of the
16Cxx-family. I suppose that a programmer must meet the following
specifications:
* The MCLR pin must be configured tristate: hi impedance for normal operation
(MCLR connected to Vdd via ~1k), active low, and active programming voltage
* the Vdd pin should be active 5 V or hi impedance for normal op.
* CLK and DATA pin connected to programmer or hi impedance.

Some background:
all pins should be configurable to hi imp. so that the programmer can stay
connected while the PIC is working in normal operation mode.
The MCLR pin must provide active low to override any resistors between MCLR
and Vdd from the target circuit, and it must provide a low impedance
programming voltage with the necessary programming current (for all PICs but
the 16C84).


Which one is a suitable programmer?



Some words about available programmer hardware:
* The H. Schaer programmer
this is the first and only serial programmer I use at the moment (only for
16C84). At this programmer the MCLR pin is either not connected or active low or
passive VIA 10k at the programming voltage. I am afraid that this configuration
is not capable of sourcing the necessary programming current for PICs, except
the 16C84. Result: Unsuitable for 16Cxx

* The D. Tait programmer
this programmer can connect the MCLR directly to Vpp or via 10k to GND.
Due to the missing active low level and hi impedance: Unsuitable for InCircuit
Programming

* The AN589 programmer
this programmer has an intelligent solution to provide the MCLR with all
necessary voltage levels, but the 5V Vdd cannot be switched off (yet).

I came to the conclusion that the AN589 programmer is the most suitable
universal InCircuit programmer. I thought of adding two transistors to apply
the 5V to the PIC only when MCLR is tied to GND or to Vpp. My PIC application
normally runs at 3 V, but accepts 5 V supplied externally by the programmer,
that is the reason why the 5V of the programmer should be switched off after
programming.


Any comments / better programmer hardware / correction of my statement?



SIS / Antti offers a universal software for these programmers which I wanted
to use. The PIP-2 programmer has the GO function to let a 16C84 run in
normal mode after programming. What is behind this 'undocumented feature'?


Siggi


Siegfried Grob,                                   |
student of electrical engineering,                |
university of ulm, germany                        |
e-mail:  spamBeGonesiegfried.grobspamBeGonespamstudent.uni-ulm.de        |
tel&fax: +49 731 25148                            |
--------------------------------------------------'

1995\08\30@140912 by Antti Lukats

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>SIS / Antti offers a universal software for these programmers which I wanted
>to use. The PIP-2 programmer has the GO function to let a 16C84 run in
>normal mode after programming. What is behind this 'undocumented feature'?

Hm.. that GO functions does that what you are looking for: in circuit run!

ie if the programmer hardware supports +5v or Logic H at MCLR pin then
the PIC will be reset and running, disconnecting (HiZ) RB7 and RB6

The only DIY programmer supporting this feature is AN589.

Note: AN589 does not HiZ correctly RB7 as that pin is connected
to LPT ACK, ie that pin has a pull-up.

cheers antti
----------------------------------------------------------
-- Antti Lukats                          Silicon Studio --
-- TakeThisOuTsisEraseMEspamspam_OUTrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500    --
-- ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001 --
-- http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia        --
----------------------------------------------------------

1995\08\30@143222 by David Tait

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Hi Siegfried,

I think your analysis of the options is fair.  I guess that something like
the AN589 circuit is the best given your criteria, though it's not perfect.
I doubt whether it is really necessary to switch VDD for in-circuit
programming.

Of course, there is really no _best_ solution to in-circuit programming.  For
many of the circuits I deal with it is not necessary to put RB6 or RB7 into
Hi-Z state and I can use open collector outputs to drive these pins provided
I leave the outputs in the off state after programming.  Here is a circuit
I devised recently for a simple RS232 based parallel interface that had only
three outputs available.  By the way, this RS232 based interface makes the
programmer machine independent or at least makes it possible to use the
programmer on any machine with an RS232 interface and a C compiler - I have
used it on an IBM clone (both DOS and Linux) and a Sun workstation and I
guess it will also work on a Mac.  The interface is based on a few cheap CMOS
chips and was designed as part of an ongoing project to produce a universal
PIC programmer, like the ETI one, but one which could be constructed without
needing access to an existing programmer.  Really, a MAX232/16C84 combo makes
a great 16CXX programmer.

Note for this circuit to work the MCLR line is tied to the system VDD via
a diode and 1k resistor on the target board:


VIN      +-------+
>17V     |       |                                        _____
 >--+----| 78L12 |----+-----+----+------------------+  +-[_____]--+
    |    |       |    |     |    |                  |  |   2k2    |
 +__|__  +-------+  __|__   |    |   _____          |  |         _|_
  _____      |      _____   |    +--[_____]--+      |  |         \ /^ RED
47u |       _|_  470n |     |         10k    |      |E |         ---  LED
    |       \ /^      |     |        _____   |    |/   |          |
   ///      ---      ///    |    +--[_____]--+----|    |          |
       GREEN |              |    |    10k         |\   |         ///
        LED  |              |    |          BC560   |C |  _____
            ///             |    +------------+     +--+-[_____]--+
                            |    |            |            100    |
                            |    |           ---                 _|_
/DOUT2* >-------------------------+    1N4148 /_\          1N4148 \ /
                       RB6  |                 |                  ---
/DOUT0* >----+----------->   |        _____    |           _____   |
            |               +-------[_____]---+       +--[_____]--+---->
/DOUT1* >--+------------->             22k     |       |    10k    |  MCLR
          | |   _____  RB7                    |      ///          |C
          | +--[_____]--+------->             |                 |/
          |     _____   |    SYS VDD          +-----------------|   BC550
  DIN0 <--+----[_____]--+                     |C                |\
               2 X 10k             _____    |/                    |E
/DOUT0 >--------------------------[_____]---|   BC550             |
                                    10k     |\                    |
                                              |E    BC560 PNP     |
      Copyright (C) 1995 David Tait           |     BC550 NPN     |
                                             ///                 ///

This can be used with a standard parallel port by employing open collector
buffers to provide the signals /DOUT0*-/DOUT2*  (/DOUT0 has the same logical
levels as /DOUT0* but is not open collector and can come directly from the
port).

The signals are decoded to give +13V, 0V or floating (i.e. +5V) for MCLR.
With more signals available from the port the open collector signals could
come from tri-state buffers instead.

In short, I doubt if you'll have a problem devising a suitable circuit
providing you are happy to provide the software to drive it yourself.

Cheers,

David
--
RemoveMEdavid.taitspamTakeThisOuTman.ac.uk

1995\08\30@222535 by Don McKenzie

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On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Siegfried Grob wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I need a programmer suitable for In Circuit Programming of all PICs of the
> 16Cxx-family. I suppose that a programmer must meet the following
> specifications:
> Siggi

Hi Siegfried,

I hope I'm not missing the point on your 16Cxx in-circuit
programming question, but why would you need to program anything
but an 84 in-circuit?

Please sit me back in my corner if I am way off the mark.   :-))

1)  An EEPROM chip: Fine. Load and go!
2)  An OTP chip: No, why?
3)  An EPROM chip: Yes, but needs eraser placed over chip and
   takes a little time, however as any socket can easily be
   converted to a temporary ZIF socket, a standard programmer
   and several EEPROM version chips may do the same thing more
   readily.

I have a Parallel Port driven Serial In-circuit Programmer that I
would like to see your comments on. It uses the bull-dozer
approach to Load and Go programming. A Program/Run 4PDT switch is
used to control this feature.

It is based on David Tait's design and uses a 10 pin IDC header
and flat ribbon cable to get to the target board. This header is
pin compatible with a design featured by Dr Russ Reiss in Circuit
Cellar magazine.

It also has provision for an on-board 18 pin ZIF socket and a
power supply capable of running both the programmer and a small
target system if required.

A suitable prototype target board (PIGMY) is also available that
has the matching 10 pin header on board and has support for all
18 and 28 pin PICs. It has support circuitry for the Parallax
Basic Interpreter (BS-1) chipset, plus DB-25, MAX-232, etc., etc.

You can check out the circuits, overlays, other hardware features,
assembly instructions, and drivers at the Silicon Studio site:

ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/prod/microchip/3rd-Party/Don.McKenzie/

The following drivers are available: (Not all on Silicon Studio yet)

David Tait U.K.           QBasic, C.
Dr Russ Reiss. U.S.       Circuit Cellar Magazine.
New Zealand Anon.         Visual Basic for DOS.
Silicon Studio Estonia    PIP-02 (MSDOS, WIN_31, WIN_95)
Cybertek Las Vegas U.S.   Assembly Language. (PC). Shareware
                         available for 84, Registration for
                         others. (Working, still Beta-testing)
Nigel Goodwin. U.K.       Pascal  (Working, still Beta-testing)

The files in question are:
DON001_1.ZIP, DON001_2.ZIP, and DON001_3.ZIP. These files are
also available from the MicroChip BBS in the 3rdparty SIG.

Don...

Don McKenzie                ~~   _--_|\    ~~   Email: donmckEraseMEspam.....tbsa.com.au
29 Ellesmere Cres.,         ~~  /      `\  ~~   Phone:   + 61 3 9338 6286
Tullamarine 3043 Australia  ~~ (         ) ~~  Mobile:   + 61 019 939 799
(10 Miles from Melbourne)   ~~  \/~^~\_@/  ~~   Same address for 21 years
                                      v

1995\08\31@005900 by Siegfried Grob

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Hi David,

> Here is a circuit I devised recently for a simple RS232 based parallel
> interface that had only three outputs available.
THREE outputs with RS232???
I only know of RTS and DTR. Or do you abuse the TxD line like the Erik-
Hermann-ultracheap-RS232-programmer?


> Note for this circuit to work the MCLR line is tied to the system VDD via
> a diode and 1k resistor on the target board
That is another point to discuss. The data book says, MCLR must be at least
0.85*Vdd, that is 3,06V at Vdd=3,6V, the difference is 0,54V.
Microchip writes that the MCLR pullup resistor should be not greater than
1k so that the voltage drop at MCLR input with respect to Vdd is smaller than
0,2V (!). With your circuit it seems to be hard to meet this specification:
a 1k : 10k voltage divider together with a diode? Just calculate yourself.
PICs are probably less critical as my (Microchip's?) assumptions are, and
work without problems...


Some notes about your famous 'Basic PIC 16C84 programmer':
I think it is easy to expand and optimize your programmer's design so that it
meets 'my private' specifications by using all the unused drivers of
both ICs. Only one more line of the PC's parallel port would be needed and
therefore the software has to be adapted (which is the only disadvantage).
Interested?


Cheers,
Siegfried

1995\08\31@023356 by Antti Lukats

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>> Here is a circuit I devised recently for a simple RS232 based parallel
>> interface that had only three outputs available.
>THREE outputs with RS232???
>I only know of RTS and DTR. Or do you abuse the TxD line like the Erik-
>Hermann-ultracheap-RS232-programmer?

this is _not_ abuse!

TxD can be forced to any state by setting serial port controller to break.

>> Note for this circuit to work the MCLR line is tied to the system VDD via
>> a diode and 1k resistor on the target board
>That is another point to discuss. The data book says, MCLR must be at least
>0.85*Vdd, that is 3,06V at Vdd=3,6V, the difference is 0,54V.
>Microchip writes that the MCLR pullup resistor should be not greater than
>1k so that the voltage drop at MCLR input with respect to Vdd is smaller than

Microchip databook 1994 page 2-551 (DS30081C-page 17):
Pull-up R < 40KOhms is recommended (look carefully figure 4.2.4)

>a 1k : 10k voltage divider together with a diode? Just calculate yourself.

Microchip _recommends_ a use of diode in series to resistor at MCLR for ISP.
Databook 1994 page 2-567. That circuitry _works_

antti

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Antti Lukats                          Silicon Studio --
-- EraseMEsisspamrasi.lr.ttu.ee                    PO Box 3500    --
-- ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis          Tallinn EE0001 --
-- http://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/~sis            Estonia        --
----------------------------------------------------------

1995\08\31@072647 by Don McKenzie

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face
On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, David Tait wrote:

> PIC programmer, like the ETI one, but one which could be constructed without
> needing access to an existing programmer.  Really, a MAX232/16C84 combo makes
> a great 16CXX programmer.
>

Hi David, pity Max only has two each way, but it would make for an
interesting all round programmer.

Antti could do the drivers before our morning tea break. :-))

Don...

Don McKenzie                ~~   _--_|\    ~~   Email: RemoveMEdonmckEraseMEspamEraseMEtbsa.com.au
29 Ellesmere Cres.,         ~~  /      `\  ~~   Phone:   + 61 3 9338 6286
Tullamarine 3043 Australia  ~~ (         ) ~~  Mobile:   + 61 019 939 799
(10 Miles from Melbourne)   ~~  \/~^~\_@/  ~~   Same address for 21 years
                                      v

1995\08\31@081538 by Adrian Godwin

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Don McKenzie <RemoveMEdonmckspam_OUTspamKILLspamtbsa.com.au> wrote :

>
> I hope I'm not missing the point on your 16Cxx in-circuit
> programming question, but why would you need to program anything
> but an 84 in-circuit?
>
> Please sit me back in my corner if I am way off the mark.   :-))
>
> 1)  An EEPROM chip: Fine. Load and go!
> 2)  An OTP chip: No, why?

For much the same reason as the EEPROM : you can load the code in at
the last possible moment, even if you only get one chance to get it
right. This has lots of advantages in a production situation :

- customisation (e.g. serialisation) of products
- single manufacturing process for software variants
- minimising inventory control of preprogrammed parts
- minimising rework costs after software changes
- minimising handling of components (especially worthwhile for SMT)
- possible programming of parts in an in-circuit-test fixture

The move toward in-system programmable parts is mostly driven by these
advantages, which maximise the advantages gained by suffering the
slightly higher cost of programmable parts (over mask-programmed parts).
The usefulness of these devices for the low-budget user is something
of a (desirable) side effect.

-adrian


'PIC programmers'
1995\09\01@160609 by Eric Smith
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On Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:20:50 +60000, Don McKenzie <RemoveMEdonmckTakeThisOuTspamspamTBSA.COM.AU> wrote:
> ... pity Max only has two each way, but it would make for an
[referring to the MAX-232, which has two drivers and two receivers]

Of course, there are other Maxim parts which have more drivers and receivers
in various combinations.  3/5 and 5/3 are common.

Also, Motorola makes the MC145407 which has 3 drivers and 3 recievers.

Cheers,
Eric

1995\09\01@174812 by Don McKenzie

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On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Eric Smith wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:20:50 +60000, Don McKenzie <EraseMEdonmckspamspamspamBeGoneTBSA.COM.AU> wrote:
> > ... pity Max only has two each way, but it would make for an
> [referring to the MAX-232, which has two drivers and two receivers]
>
> Of course, there are other Maxim parts which have more drivers and receivers
> in various combinations.  3/5 and 5/3 are common.
> Also, Motorola makes the MC145407 which has 3 drivers and 3 recievers.

Yes thanks Eric, I was aware. I dare say others may not know that other
types are available.

I was just following the Max-232 line of David's conversation, however
after David explained his two box theory and I understood what he was on
about, the Max-232 will do fine.

Antti has just told me to forget the Max-232 anyway. Who needs those for
RS-232 interfacing to a PIC.

AS most modern serial ports are driven by a Maxim or equivalent these
days, I think you will find the Max not required at the target end of
things when it comes to PICs. (Well, with minimal signal conditioning).

Don...

Don McKenzie                ~~   _--_|\    ~~   Email: RemoveMEdonmckKILLspamspamtbsa.com.au
29 Ellesmere Cres.,         ~~  /      `\  ~~   Phone:   + 61 3 9338 6286
Tullamarine 3043 Australia  ~~ (         ) ~~  Mobile:   + 61 019 939 799
(10 Miles from Melbourne)   ~~  \/~^~\_@/  ~~   Same address for 21 years
See my promo.zip disk at:   ~~         v   ~~
ftp://rasi.lr.ttu.ee/pub/sis/prod/microchip/3rd-Party/Don.McKenzie/

1995\09\04@184547 by Erik Hermann

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pmdl> Note: AN589 does not HiZ correctly RB7 as that pin is connected
pmdl> to LPT ACK, ie that pin has a pull-up.


I wonder why they didn't use one of the free drivers inside the LS244
for that.



Gruss
   Erik

___ Terminate 1.51


'PIC PROGRAMMERS'
1998\03\25@144050 by Alastair
flavicon
Hi

Is it possible to home build a simple programmer for PICs other than the 16c84?
If so where do I get the scematics?
If you ever need help in audio design I could help.

Thanks

Robert Binneman
Walvis Bay NAMIBIA

1998\03\25@144050 by Alastair

flavicon
Hi

Is it possible to home build a simple programmer for PICs other than the 16c84?
If so where do I get the scematics?
If you ever need help in audio design I could help.

Thanks

Robert Binneman
Walvis Bay NAMIBIA

1998\03\25@173646 by Mo

flavicon
face
>Is it possible to home build a simple programmer for PICs other than the
16c84?
>If so where do I get the scematics?

Robert,
Jens Madsen's Pic Programmer 2 is superb! It uses any 2 general purpose NPN
transistors, 2 caps, 2 resistors and 6 diodes.
It will cost around $3 plus serial cable and needs no external power at all.
It works well with 16X84 and I have tested it with 12C508 and 16C71 on
several
systems.
Jen's  P50xV13 program for the 12c508 is also very reliable. PIP02 for the
others.
If you have any problems, just shout.
http://www.ebar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm
Mo

1998\03\26@025523 by wkysag

picon face
On 26 Mar 97 at 21:28, Alastair wrote:

> Is it possible to home build a simple programmer for PICs other than the
> 16c84?

yes

> If so where do I get the scematics?

you will find some links at
http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/Wolfgang.Kynast/pic.htm

Regards,
Wolfgang
--
Rund um's Geld:
people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/Wolfgang.Kynast/

1998\03\27@005300 by mike

flavicon
face
Mo wrote:
>
> >Is it possible to home build a simple programmer for PICs other than the
> 16c84?
> >If so where do I get the scematics?
>
> Robert,
> Jens Madsen's Pic Programmer 2 is superb! It uses any 2 general purpose NPN
> transistors, 2 caps, 2 resistors and 6 diodes.

Is it just general purpose silicon or germani transistors?
Is it just general purpose silicon germani diodes?

I so curious because i planing to use local parts...

> It will cost around $3 plus serial cable and needs no external power at all.
> It works well with 16X84 and I have tested it with 12C508 and 16C71 on
> several
> systems.
> Jen's  P50xV13 program for the 12c508 is also very reliable. PIP02 for the
> others.
> If you have any problems, just shout.
> http://www.ebar.dtu.dk/~c888600/newpic.htm
> Mo

1998\03\27@100451 by Mo

flavicon
face
>>>Jens Madsen's Pic Programmer 2 is superb! It uses any 2 general purpose
NPN
>>> transistors, 2 caps, 2 resistors and 6 diodes.

>Is it just general purpose silicon or germani transistors?
>Is it just general purpose silicon germani diodes?
>I so curious because i planing to use local parts...

Michael,
The transistors are general purpose silicon transistors.
The diodes are general use silicon diodes.
2 Diodes are low power Zener (5.1V and 8.2V)

Mo


'PIC programmers'
1999\01\04@110939 by John and Elaine Schenk
flavicon
face
<x-rich>I am in need or a PIC programmer that will work with MPLAB and 16F84
mclrs. I am going to try the Parallel Programmer in the Electronics Now
Sept 98issue. Has anybody had any success with this one? Also I am
looking for a complete schematic for the YAP programmer found in Myke
Predko's <italic>Programming and Customizing the PIC
Microcontroller</italic>. A parts list would also be quite helpful. Any
input would be greatly appreciated, this is my first attempt at PICs.


                               Andrew Schenk

</x-rich>

1999\01\04@194715 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
<x-rich>At 10:19 4/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt>I am in need or a PIC programmer that will work with MPLAB and
16F84 mclrs. I am going to try the Parallel Programmer in the Electronics
Now Sept 98issue. Has anybody had any success with this one? Also I am
looking for a complete schematic for the YAP programmer found in Myke
Predko's <italic>Programming and Customizing the PIC
Microcontroller</italic>. A parts list would also be quite helpful. Any
input would be greatly appreciated, this is my first attempt at PICs.


                               Andrew Schenk


</excerpt><<<<<<<<


In answer to your first question...


Check out  http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound


Read carefully!


Jim

--------------------------------------------------------

Jim Robertson

Email: newfoundSTOPspamspamspam_OUTpipeline.com.au


http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound

--------------------------------------------------------

</x-rich>

1999\01\04@210033 by Bill Kichman

flavicon
face
John, don't waste your time building a programmer, your time is much
better spent designing your applications, IMHO. Go to kitsrus.com, buy
kit #96 for $25 (with shipping from Hong Kong!) and download the free
programming software.  The kit is easily assembled in an hour, I had
mine up and running, and my first PIC '84 running in 2 hours! That was
several days ago.  Anyway that's just my opinion, but check it out, it
programs most all PICS...you need only add a m/f 25-pin cable and a wall
wart!  Good Luck.

John and Elaine Schenk wrote:
>
> I am in need or a PIC programmer that will work with MPLAB and 16F84 mclrs. I
am going to try the Parallel Programmer in the Electronics Now Sept 98issue. Has
anybody had any success with this one? Also I am looking for a complete schemat
ic for the YAP programmer found in Myke Predko's Programming and Customizing the
PIC Microcontroller. A parts list would also be quite helpful. Any input would
be greatly appreciated, this is my first attempt at PICs.
>
> Andrew Schenk

1999\01\05@010731 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
<x-rich>At 10:19 4/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>>>

<excerpt>I am in need or a PIC programmer that will work with MPLAB and
16F84 mclrs. I am going to try the Parallel Programmer in the Electronics
Now Sept 98issue. Has anybody had any success with this one? Also I am
looking for a complete schematic for the YAP programmer found in Myke
Predko's <italic>Programming and Customizing the PIC
Microcontroller</italic>. A parts list would also be quite helpful. Any
input would be greatly appreciated, this is my first attempt at PICs.


                               Andrew Schenk


</excerpt><<<<<<<<


I wrote...


In answer to your first question...


Check out  http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound


Read carefully!


Jim


Oops, I meant read the _news highlites_ carefully.


Jim

--------------------------------------------------------

Jim Robertson

Email: spamBeGonenewfoundSTOPspamspamEraseMEpipeline.com.au


http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound

--------------------------------------------------------

</x-rich>

1999\01\05@033859 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 20:54 4/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
>John, don't waste your time building a programmer, your time is much
>better spent designing your applications, IMHO. Go to kitsrus.com, buy
>kit #96 for $25 (with shipping from Hong Kong!) and download the free
>programming software.  The kit is easily assembled in an hour, I had
>mine up and running, and my first PIC '84 running in 2 hours! That was
>several days ago.  Anyway that's just my opinion, but check it out, it
>programs most all PICS...you need only add a m/f 25-pin cable and a wall
>wart!  Good Luck.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong but the software is shareware and requires
a payment of USD$25 to the author.

This is posted on the kits "R" us web site:

Price $US25.00 includes all postage & packing & bank charges. You can use
the secure
    credit card webpage. Note software expires after 21 days and you must
registered it
    ($US25) directly with the software writer.

So your USD$25 programmer "kit" is really a USD$50 "kit" doesn't program
16C5x
parts and certainly has little chance of "working with MPLAB."

I suggest a little work with a web brower and a calculator might be required.

Jim

>John and Elaine Schenk wrote:
>>
>> I am in need or a PIC programmer that will work with MPLAB and 16F84
mclrs. I am going to try the Parallel Programmer in the Electronics Now
Sept 98issue. Has anybody had any success with this one? Also I am looking
for a complete schematic for the YAP programmer found in Myke Predko's
Programming and Customizing the PIC Microcontroller. A parts list would
also be quite helpful. Any input would be greatly appreciated, this is my
first attempt at PICs.
>>
>> Andrew Schenk
>
--------------------------------------------------------
Jim Robertson
Email: KILLspamnewfoundspamBeGonespampipeline.com.au

http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
--------------------------------------------------------

1999\01\05@095651 by WIL REEDER

flavicon
face
Try the man himself http://www.myke.com or EraseMEmykespamEraseMEpassport.ca. good luck

Wil Reeder
@spam@teachtech@spam@spamspam_OUTbc.sympatico.ca
Vancouver,Canada
Faster horses, younger women, older wiskey, and more money!

----------
{Quote hidden}

1999\01\05@231129 by Bill Kichman

flavicon
face
Jim Robertson wrote:
>
> At 20:54 4/01/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >John, don't waste your time building a programmer, your time is much
> >better spent designing your applications, IMHO. Go to kitsrus.com, buy
> >kit #96 for $25 (with shipping from Hong Kong!) and download the free
> >programming software.  The kit is easily assembled in an hour, I had
> >mine up and running, and my first PIC '84 running in 2 hours! That was
> >several days ago.  Anyway that's just my opinion, but check it out, it
> >programs most all PICS...you need only add a m/f 25-pin cable and a wall
> >wart!  Good Luck.
>
> Um, correct me if I'm wrong but the software is shareware and requires
> a payment of USD$25 to the author.
>
Oh yes, I guess it is, but then there's lots of free software out there
that'll also program this device.
{Quote hidden}

Cs, but then I am not SURE that it won't program them either)and certainly has l
ittle chance of "working with MPLAB."  I beg to differ, but then how do you defi
ne "work with"?  I compiled a sample program with MPLAB and programmed the PIC w
ith the resultant hex file with absolutely no problems, but then I am a one-week
new beginner. Maybe there are lots of incompatabilities there.
But again- the device meets my needs, and does so inexpensively, and I
still stand by it as a good starter device.  Besides, my finished
devices will contain in-circuit programming capability anyway. Do the
16C5x devices also allow such 2-pin programming?  If so, then the point
is moot.


>
> I suggest a little work with a web brower and a calculator might be required.
Jim
(Nice stab at my intelligence- no harm done I've thick skin)
> Thanks for the corrections though, Jim.  Your delivery could use a little atti
tude adjustment though(grin).
{Quote hidden}

1999\01\06@132231 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 23:06 5/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

Sigh...

My corrections were for everybody and not some personal attack
on you Bill. Reread what I said and what the original request was.
It was far more subtle than you realized and absolutely informative
and accurate. I'm afraid it all went over your head Bill.


I seem to remember offering you some free and helpful advice
recently.

Now, without understanding what I was saying and  who I was
addressing,  you want to go making remarks about my attitude!

You are free to offer personal opinion but if someone corrects your
mistakes don't try to out expertise them when clearly you are not
qualified or question their attitude when you yourself have misread
the significance of the reply.

Jim


{Quote hidden}

*most* PICs, but then I am not SURE that it won't program them either)and
certainly has little chance of "working with MPLAB."  I beg to differ, but
then how do you define "work with"?  I compiled a sample program with MPLAB
and programmed the PIC with the resultant hex file with absolutely no
problems, but then I am a one-week new beginner. Maybe there are lots of
incompatabilities there.
>But again- the device meets my needs, and does so inexpensively, and I
>still stand by it as a good starter device.  Besides, my finished
>devices will contain in-circuit programming capability anyway. Do the
>16C5x devices also allow such 2-pin programming?  If so, then the point
>is moot.
>
>
>>
>> I suggest a little work with a web brower and a calculator might be
required.
>Jim
>(Nice stab at my intelligence- no harm done I've thick skin)
>> Thanks for the corrections though, Jim.  Your delivery could use a
little attitude adjustment though(grin).
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------
Jim Robertson
Email: RemoveMEnewfoundspamspamBeGonepipeline.com.au

http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
--------------------------------------------------------

1999\01\14@003637 by Derek Bischoff

flavicon
face
No offense to you Jim, but as a third party reading this thread:
"I suggest a little work with a web brower and a calculator might be
required."
was a bit tongue-in-cheek
and worth an apology to Bill.

amen.

Oh and bill, "work with Mplab" means to program from the Mplab, not to use
the hex files created with Mplab. but I get it.... it's a small
inconvenience
for you.


> {Original Message removed}

1999\01\14@011040 by Phillip L Revels

flavicon
face
part 0 3060 bytes
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
   <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>{Original Message removed}

1999\01\14@230736 by Bill Kichman

flavicon
face
Jim, Derek is right.  Although your intent was likely to pass on more
accurate info, which is certainly invited and proper, the way we write
text is all-too-important.  I've been guilty of this myself.  The
calculator and browser comment was a tongue-in-cheek stab, another way
of calling me bad at math and too lazy to do my research, plain and
simple. And then to say your response "went over my head"?  How
insulting.  But no harm done, nonetheless.
We're all different and deal with things differently.  All I would ask,
Jim is by all means provide corrections where they're due, many of us
are beginners here but the message gets quickly lost if it's delivered
with vinegar.  And yes, you *did* offer me some help the other day, and
thanks again for that assistance.  And thanks, Derek, for clarifying the
MPLAB issue!  Quick learning curve, that's what this is all about!
Regards,
R. William Kichman, P.E.

Derek Bischoff wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}


'PIC Programmers'
1999\11\09@090912 by jcowgar
flavicon
face
I have been using the NOPPP PIC Programmer that you can find on the web, and
I am just curious... It says that it programs PIC16F84 and PIC16C84, and
PIC16C83 ... Is it just a matter of what pin's items are connected to
inorder to program other mid-range PIC's, or do they have diffrent internal
programming procedures? For instance, the PIC16C72 or PIC16C77 ?

Thanks!

Jeremy - spamBeGoneKB8LFA@spam@spamspam_OUTqsl.net
KB8LFA - K2 #600

http://www.qsl.net/kb8lfa/

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