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PICList Thread
'PIC Spreadsheet'
1996\11\05@123135 by John Magrane (IsMail)

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part 0 104 bytes


[[ PIC_REF1.XLS : 4366 in WINMAIL.DAT ]]

John Magrane
Field Apps Eng
Bell Industries
408 734-8570



1996\11\05@144145 by optoeng

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I would really appreciate it if someone would give me a clue about how
to setup Netscape Mail so that I can handle this attachment.  Thanks.
--

Paul Mathews, consulting engineer
AEngineering Co.
spam_OUToptoengTakeThisOuTspamwhidbey.com
non-contact sensing and optoelectronics specialists


John Magrane (IsMail) wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1996\11\05@162120 by John Payson

picon face
> Since there has been so much interest in the spreadsheet, I will post a
> copy here. I will also post a copy anytime there is a change (new
> device, prices etc.). Glad to here this has been such a help.

[illegible MIME enclosure deleted]

For most of us here, an Excell spreadsheet is really quite useless.  Would
it be possible for you to convert your sheet to ASCII form and then repost?
Thanks.

1996\11\05@173957 by Dmitry Kiryashov

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John Magrane (IsMail) wrote:

> Hi all,
> Since there has been so much interest in the spreadsheet, I will post a
> copy here. I will also post a copy anytime there is a change (new
> device, prices etc.). Glad to here this has been such a help.
> [[ PIC_REF1.XLS : 4366 in WINMAIL.DAT ]]

Please don't post any _LARGE_ spreadsheet (with prices) to piclist,
send it to interested people by email. (If it is not too lazy ;-)
I think it will be enough to write little note with following subj:
"PICs device prices, documentations, all requests by _EMAIL_"
and with empty note body.

IMHO, There so many other people not interested to receive
every week new copy of _LARGE_ sized pricelist, isn't it ?

Dmitry.
P.S. The time online is money that you spent ;)

1996\11\05@182736 by John Magrane (IsMail)

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Dmitry Kiryashov wrote:
>IMHO, There so many other people not interested to receive
>every week new copy of _LARGE_ sized pricelist, isn't it ?

It was my intention to only distribute the spreadsheet to interested
parties, however the reponse was so overwhelming that I posted to the
list. Never was there an intent to post this listing on a weekly basis,
only as major changes occur.

John

>

1996\11\05@182932 by Lee Jones

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>> [PIC feature & pricing] spreadsheet, I will post a copy here.
>>
>> [[ PIC_REF1.XLS : 4366 in WINMAIL.DAT ]]
>>                 Part 1.2       Type: application/ms-tnef
>>                            Encoding: base64

> I would really appreciate it if someone would give me a clue about how
> to setup Netscape Mail so that I can handle this attachment.  Thanks.

Basically, you can't.  The Base64 encoding is a standard part of the
Internet MIME specification (RFC 1521).  It is handled automatically
& easily Netscape.

However, the resulting WINMAIL.DAT file is effectively an opaque
binary object.  It is in a Microsoft proprietary format.  If what
you wanted was text, you could probably extract it using a editor
and "clean it up" by hand.  However, you want an Excel spreadsheet
which has also has to be treated as an opaque binary object.

Or you can solve the problem by only using Microsoft mail user agents.

                                               Lee Jones

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones Computer Communications             .....leeKILLspamspam@spam@frumble.claremont.edu
509 Black Hills Dr, Claremont, CA 91711         voice: 909-621-9008
-------------------------------------------------------------------

1996\11\05@183531 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 11:41 05/11/96 -0800, Paul Mathews wrote:
>I would really appreciate it if someone would give me a clue about how
>to setup Netscape Mail so that I can handle this attachment.  Thanks.

I'm not sure about Netscape mail -- I have Netscape installed, but a short
look at its mail capabilities showed that they're not sufficient. I use
Eudora Light instead, it is freeware and handles attachments without further
setup: I had the decoded file in my attachment directory. And it has a
couple of other features, which make it one of the great freeware tools.

1996\11\06@030303 by LEE

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At 09:27 1996/11/5 -0800, John Magrane wrote:
>Hi all,
>Since there has been so much interest in the spreadsheet, I will post a
>copy here. I will also post a copy anytime there is a change (new
>device, prices etc.). Glad to here this has been such a help.
>

John, thank you for sending me the file. Posting it through PICLIST will
certainly save you the trouble to send the file to individuals. I welcome
this arrangement.

The file that received by private email works fine and it is great! Its name
is "PIC_REF1.XLS", 51,200 bytes. However, the other one you sent to PICLIST
at 09:27, 5 Nov. was received as "PICSPREA" and was 55,128 bytes. My Excel
displayed it as text file even though I renamed it to "PICSPREA.XLS".

I found a line  "[[PIC_REF1.XLS:4366 in WINMAIL.DAT]]" in the email that
comes with the file in problem. Do I need to use MS Mail to receive it? I am
using the Eudora Light. Can you send the file in .XLS format in the future
rather than in WINMAIL.DAT format?

LEE

1996\11\06@065704 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> John Magrane (IsMail) wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > Since there has been so much interest in the spreadsheet, I will post a
> > copy here. I will also post a copy anytime there is a change (new
> > device, prices etc.). Glad to here this has been such a help.
> > [[ PIC_REF1.XLS : 4366 in WINMAIL.DAT ]]
>
> Please don't post any _LARGE_ spreadsheet (with prices) to piclist,
> send it to interested people by email.

I have to disagree for two reasons:

1) It's not that large and the bandwith isn't that much.
2) To fill several dozen if not a hundred requests for such an important
item is a difficult things to fulfill.

I'll volunteer some FTP space for it as a compromise...

BAJ

1996\11\20@234751 by Norm LeMieux

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    To all: Would it be better to get a pdf version of the Excel
    spreadsheet? Acrobat is, after all, available "free" from many
    locations (such as your Microchip CD-ROM). The only caveat is: Can
    John 'print' in Acrobat format?

    Well, John, can you?

    Norm LeMieux
    MCHIP FAE/NW

1996\11\22@033154 by Andy Barnett

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On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:28:10 -0700, you wrote:

Why not use the Excel viewer - I believe It's on the Mocrosoft Website

Andy B

1996\11\22@042900 by Stuart Taylor

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Hi

I would love to see it in pdf format but just how
big would it be and then how would you encode it.


Cheers

Stuart Taylor

Stuart.TaylorspamKILLspamsolid-state-logic.com

1996\11\22@044555 by nogueira

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Norm LeMieux wrote:
>
>      To all: Would it be better to get a pdf version of the Excel
>      spreadsheet? Acrobat is, after all, available "free" from many
>      locations (such as your Microchip CD-ROM). The only caveat is: Can
>      John 'print' in Acrobat format?
>
>      Well, John, can you?
>
>      Norm LeMieux
>      MCHIP FAE/NW

If he can't, I can do.

Octavio
--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
e-mail:   .....nogueiraKILLspamspam.....mandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
"ProPic" The first Production PIC Programmer running in
Windows and under US$ 20.00.
========================================================

1996\11\23@105035 by peter

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Norm LeMieux wrote:
>
>      To all: Would it be better to get a pdf version of the Excel
>      spreadsheet? Acrobat is, after all, available "free" from many
>      locations (such as your Microchip CD-ROM). The only caveat is:
can
>      John 'print' in Acrobat format?
>
>      Well, John, can you?
>
>      Norm LeMieux
>      MCHIP FAE/NW

I can print pdf but don't want to, it takes so long !
Excel is far quicker so please anything but pdf.
Also maybe you should reconsider using pdf at mchip
the 16f84 data sheet takes 12hours to print on my machine
(486dx33 8meg ram hp-deskjet 540)
I am personally near the point of refusing to accept any more
pdf files as I do with Images (if I can't navigate a site without
loading Images then I leave the site)
If you have to ask what's wrong with loading images then you are
too far from reality to help
I would like to thank John Magrane for posting this to the list
in whatever form he finds the easiest

--
Peter Cousens
email: EraseMEpeterspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcousens.her.forthnet.gr
snailmail: Peter Cousens, karteros, Heraklion, Crete, 75100, Greece,
phone: + 3081 380534,    +3081 324450   voice/fax

--
Peter Cousens
email: peterspamspam_OUTcousens.her.forthnet.gr
snailmail: Peter Cousens, karteros, Heraklion, Crete, 75100, Greece,
phone: + 3081 380534,    +3081 324450   voice/fax

1996\11\23@205845 by Bob Blick

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> I can print pdf but don't want to, it takes so long !
> Excel is far quicker so please anything but pdf.
> Also maybe you should reconsider using pdf at mchip
> the 16f84 data sheet takes 12hours to print on my machine
> (486dx33 8meg ram hp-deskjet 540)

> Peter Cousens


Peter,

I think you need a different printer or new drivers. All the Microchip .pdf
files shoot out of my printer as fast as it can print when in Postscript
emulation, and almost that fast when in HP Laserjet emulation. I have an old
NEC laser printer and a 486.

Cheers, Bob

1996\11\23@210920 by Don McKenzie

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Bob Blick wrote:

> > I can print pdf but don't want to, it takes so long !
> > Excel is far quicker so please anything but pdf.
> > Also maybe you should reconsider using pdf at mchip
> > the 16f84 data sheet takes 12hours to print on my machine
> > (486dx33 8meg ram hp-deskjet 540)
>
> > Peter Cousens
>
> Peter,
>
> I think you need a different printer or new drivers. All the Microchip .pdf
> files shoot out of my printer as fast as it can print when in Postscript
> emulation, and almost that fast when in HP Laserjet emulation. I have an old
> NEC laser printer and a 486.
>
> Cheers, Bob

I couldn't imagine life without PDF files now.
Peter, I had similar problems, 8Mb just isn't enough. You will find 32
Mb closer to what it really needs for a quick Adobe Print out.
Don...

Don McKenzie @spam@donmckKILLspamspamlabyrinth.net.au
DonTronics Tullamarine, Australia
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck

SimmStick(tm) A PIC proto PCB the size of a 30 pin Simm Memory Module.
EASY PIC'n Beginners Guide to using PIC 16/17 MicroChip products.
MEL PicBasic Compiler. Programmers from 15 USD.  Pic-Axe(tm) A New Tool.

1996\11\24@120249 by nigelg

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In message  <KILLspam3298B977.644KILLspamspamlabyrinth.net.au> RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
{Quote hidden}

I couldn't imagine life without them either, but they take a long time for
me to print as well. I'm using a 486DX4/100 with 12Mb of RAM, each page takes
10-15 minutes, and dies after 6-10 pages - I then need to exit Windows and
start again. BTW, I'm using a DeskJet 500 with the HP v4.0 drivers.

Wouldn't it be nice to have 32Mb :-(.

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : spamBeGonenigelgspamBeGonespamlpilsley.demon.co.uk     |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.demon.co.uk |
       | Chesterfield    |                                            |
       | England         |                                            |
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1996\11\24@172140 by Maris Ambats

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> > I couldn't imagine life without PDF files now.
> > Peter, I had similar problems, 8Mb just isn't enough. You will find 32
> > Mb closer to what it really needs for a quick Adobe Print out.
> > Don...
>
> I couldn't imagine life without them either, but they take a long time for
> me to print as well. I'm using a 486DX4/100 with 12Mb of RAM, each page takes
> 10-15 minutes, and dies after 6-10 pages - I then need to exit Windows and
> start again. BTW, I'm using a DeskJet 500 with the HP v4.0 drivers.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice to have 32Mb :-(.
>
> Nigel.
>

To speed up .PDF printing, you might try setting your printer resolution
to 180dpi (if you are printing at 360dpi or higher). This would provide
acceptable resolution for the .PDF files and would increase the printing
speed by approximately 4. The speed increase may in fact be greater than
4X because of the reduced print buffering requirements.

Maris

1996\11\24@213916 by Alex I. Torres

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d> Bob Blick wrote:
d>
>> > I can print pdf but don't want to, it takes so long !
>> > Excel is far quicker so please anything but pdf.
>> > Also maybe you should reconsider using pdf at mchip
>> > the 16f84 data sheet takes 12hours to print on my
>> > machine (486dx33 8meg ram hp-deskjet 540)

Don:

d> I couldn't imagine life without PDF files now.
d> Peter, I had similar problems, 8Mb just isn't enough. You
d> will find 32 Mb closer to what it really needs for a quick
d> Adobe Print out. Don...

I have 5x86-160/8Mb at home running under Win95  -
and all PDF are printed well.
Also I try it at 486dx2-80/8Mb with HP-LJ5L - OK.

One  hint : I already print it to file , and then
copy to printer in DOS window :

         copy /b file.hpp PRN

-----------------------------------------------------
  Best Wishes, Alex Torres.
  Kharkov, Ukraine, exUSSR.
  E-Mail To : TakeThisOuTaltorEraseMEspamspam_OUTcook.kharkov.ua   via InterNet
              or 2:461/28             via FidoNet

--- GoldED 2.50.A0531+
* Origin: Future Hardware, (0572)32-31-62 (2:461/28)

1996\11\24@230811 by Maris Ambats

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I was able to speed up the printing of .PDF files on my Canon BJC-610 by
changing the printer resolution from 360dpi to 180dpi. This produced
adequate resolution and increased the speed by more than the expected
4X, possibly because of reduced print buffering.
I couldn't live without .PDF either -- it's great being able to get data
sheets online. I recently even printed out a 101 page Silicon Systems
modem design manual, obtained from their web site.

Maris

1996\11\26@171827 by Martin McCormick

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In message <RemoveME329754CE.84DspamTakeThisOuTcousens.her.forthnet.gr>, peter cousens writes:
> I can print pdf but don't want to, it takes so long !
> Excel is far quicker so please anything but pdf.
> Also maybe you should reconsider using pdf at mchip
> the 16f84 data sheet takes 12hours to print on my machine
> (486dx33 8meg ram hp-deskjet 540)
> I am personally near the point of refusing to accept any more
> pdf files as I do with Images (if I can't navigate a site without
> loading Images then I leave the site)
> If you have to ask what's wrong with loading images then you are
> too far from reality to help

       I am uncomfortable wasting everyone's time again, but the statements
in the above paragraphs make a beautiful point.  In my case, I don't use
Windows and will not until Microsoft cleans it up as an operating system
so that it is worth my investment in it and a new computer on which to run
it.  I may be able to hack the Excel format and make it work with no problem
and could probably do the same with PDF if it weren't for that !%#@
encryption monkey wrench which is thrown in to the works.

> I would like to thank John Magrane for posting this to the list
> in whatever form he finds the easiest

       I second that also.  The Excel binary is the next best thing to a
straight ASCII file since we do have some hope of recovering the information
from that.  The last time I checked, the Internet did not yet belong  to
Microsoft therefore no law would be broken if information that is freely
available was in a form that was virtually universal.

       Even PostScript is better since the methods for decoding it are
publicly available and all of us can work out the I/O problems to suit
ourselves without having to bother anybody else with them.

       ASCII text should be considered as almost sacred since it works
on even the oldest teletype machines (Heaven forbid!).

       What I would like to see is for MicroChip to have a robot that can
spit out an ASCII text when requested, of any document that can be displayed
this way.  That way, nobody would be out extra labor for something that would
probably have limited appeal, and the robot would insure that new material
could be had as soon as it was posted.

       I originally thought that the PDF's could be processed, but the
encryption ruins even that possibility.  MChip should at least make it possible
to download an unscrambled version of any freely available document.  That
might be good enough.  The present situation just doesn't work for me and
only marginally works for others for various reasons.

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 36.7N97.4W
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group

1996\11\26@181807 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

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G'day Martin,

> In my case, I don't use
> Windows and will not until Microsoft cleans it up as an operating system

They have, actually - it's called Windows NT. I can name about 2 Microsoft
products that are worth using - WinNT and MS Publisher. You do need some
memory to run NT (32MB is good) but since memory prices have crashed this
is no longer a problem (memory used to be the most expensive part of a
PC).

The good things about NT are that it is extremely reliable (if it crashes,
you can be sure it's a hardware problem) - rogue applications cannot bring
down the OS, and it runs the vast majority of DOS and Windows software -
32 bit applications multi-task extremely well, 16 bit apps multi-task ok.
DOS programs run better than under Win3.1.

The only drawback to NT is that some equipment, especially that which has
custom bus interface cards like the PICMAster, will not run under NT. This
means you need to dual-boot, or have another machine just for that kind
of thing.

Cheers, Clyde

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
clydeEraseMEspam.....hitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.hitech.com.au | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For info on the World's best C cross compilers for embedded systems, point
your WWW browser at http://www.hitech.com.au, or email EraseMEinfospamhitech.com.au

1996\11\26@204828 by John E. Nelson

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snip "Excel binary is the next best thing to a straight ASCII file"
****
All versions of EXCEL can save files as ASCII text, usually with a tab as a
field (column) delimiter and CR as record (row) delimiter. The only thing
lost is formating.

snip "Even PostScript is better since the methods for decoding it are
publicly available."
****
How do you recover the text and pictures without all the formating?


snip "PDF's could be processed, but the encryption ruins even that
possibility"
***
I am told that Adobe Illustrator can open PDF files, but I don't have a
copy to verify this. The PDF encryption is LZ compression. If you open a
PDF file as ASCII with a word processor you can view the formatting info,
but the "content" is LZ compressed into blocks.

snip "to download an unscrambled version of any freely available document"
***
Couldn't agree more. Smart web designers should not lock themselves into
Navigator  or Explorer only html codes, pages should be presented with and
without images, and table and non-table versions.  The suggestion that PDF
documents be provided as ASCII text as well is a good one, with the
exception that then you have the problem of images, should they be bundled,
unbundled, TIFFs, GIFs, etc. I think there is a need for freeware/shareware
PDF file decoders. Hint, hint.

1996\11\26@220312 by Hank Gupton

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Martin McCormick wrote:

>        What I would like to see is for MicroChip to have a robot that can
>spit out an ASCII text when requested, of any document that can be displayed
>this way.  That way, nobody would be out extra labor for something that would
>probably have limited appeal, and the robot would insure that new material
>could be had as soon as it was posted.

 I've seen this done.  Trust me, you won't like it.  Schematics get reduced
to an endless series of meaningless component descriptions and wire names.
Putting the body of the text back together is a pain.


>        I originally thought that the PDF's could be processed, but the
>encryption ruins even that possibility.  MChip should at least make it possible
>to download an unscrambled version of any freely available document.  That
>might be good enough.  The present situation just doesn't work for me and
>only marginally works for others for various reasons.

 The PDF interpreter is a smaller monkey on your system than would be the
postscript interpreter, but if PDF is not acceptable to you then postscript
is the next best thing.  It's just that postscript was the old standard that
PDF is replacing.  Postscript, by itself, isn't compressed and doesn't save
the fonts used in the document with the document.  PDF is smaller and fast
for people with Graphical User Interfaces.

 My two cents,

 -- Hank

1996\11\26@225614 by Doug Claar

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>snip "PDF's could be processed, but the encryption ruins even that
>possibility"
>

PDF works great for me, and might be able to be used by everyone, if it
is true that you can use ghostview/ghostscript to read it, since source
for that is freely available.  According to what I've read, you can add
decryption to GhostScript:

       http://www.ozemail.com.au/~geoffk/pdfencrypt/

I remember reading somewhere else that these patches only work if you
know the password, but that it was "easy" to change them to figure out
the password.  (It would seem that it would have to be, since AcroRead
does it).  Alternatively, folks with PDF docs could post the password
along with the PDF file?

==Doug Claar

1996\11\27@094006 by Martin J. Maney

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On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, John E. Nelson wrote:

> without images, and table and non-table versions.  The suggestion that PDF
> documents be provided as ASCII text as well is a good one, with the
> exception that then you have the problem of images, should they be bundled,
> unbundled, TIFFs, GIFs, etc. I think there is a need for freeware/shareware
> PDF file decoders. Hint, hint.

As has been mentioned more than once recently, Ghostscript (and ghostview,
I imagine) have at least some ability to deal with PDF files.
Aggressively freeware.  :-)

As for getting plain ASCII, I'm afraid that's just not an option for
documents that are prepared, as most are these days, using WYSIWYG "word
processors".  (...then we toss the words into the Bass-O-Matic and puree
for a few minutes...)  Postscript is about the only portable output format
you can get from these things.  :-(

1996\11\28@074350 by peter

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Thanks for all the advice on adobe but only a new printer or another
format will do it.
Here is a reply I got from Adobe.

I downloaded V3 if anything it seems slower printing

I like very much the idea of being able to download in ASCII
or pdf that would really be a step forward

Adobe Support wrote:
>
> Hello Peter:
>
> Thank you for contacting Adobe Technical Support/Customer Services via the
Adobe Web site.
> Answering Web messages is new to us and we appreciate you helping us test the
waters! You
> may see things change at this site over the next month or two. For information
about our current
> support policies, select Support and Services from our Homepage
(http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/main.html).
> >From there you can find information on Customer Support (U.S. and Canada
only) or international support.
>
> RE slow print time.
> PDF files are very PostScript intensive, and will take a very log to print to
non PostScript
> Desktop printers. You might want to download the 3.0 beta Reader from our web
site, and see
> if this improves the printing performance. It should.
>
> Best Regards,
> Chris JM
> Acrobat TS
>
> Thread:ACRWIN9609254761199
> The Thread Number (above) allows our mail system to associate this message
with any other message you may have sent regarding this issue.
>
> Thank you for using Adobe's Web e-mail support. This thread is now closed and
you will
> not be able to reply directly to this e-mail. If you need further assistance,
please see one
{Quote hidden}

--
Peter Cousens
email: RemoveMEpeterEraseMEspamEraseMEcousens.her.forthnet.gr
snailmail: Peter Cousens, karteros, Heraklion, Crete, 75100, Greece,
phone: + 3081 380534,    +3081 324450   voice/fax

1996\11\28@080047 by Jim Robertson

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>
>I remember reading somewhere else that these patches only work if you
>know the password, but that it was "easy" to change them to figure out
>the password.  (It would seem that it would have to be, since AcroRead
>does it).  Alternatively, folks with PDF docs could post the password
>along with the PDF file?
>
>==Doug Claar

PDF files only have a password  if the author wanted to protect it in some
way. No protection - no password. (Well, no password supplied or known by the
author at least. There may still be some default encoding though.)

Actually, PDF files can have two different passwords for different security
options.

One of these protection options is to disallow printing so that may cut off
the ghostscript patch mentioned.


Anyway, my vote is for PDF. In fact I tried to convert the PIC spreadsheet
to a
PDF file and I was going to post it on my web page if permission was granted.
Unfortunately, it proved beyond the ability of my PDF writer and probably
needs to be done via the acrobat distiller and I don't have the dollars for
that. :-(

Jim

1996\11\28@103138 by Martin McCormick

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       I goofed.  My last posting concerning why I have not upgraded to
Windows should have only gone to Clyde Smith-Stubbs <RemoveMEclydespam_OUTspamKILLspamhitech.com.au>
instead of the whole list.  I am sorry.

Martin McCormick

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