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'PIC Prototyping board sources'
1998\02\04@215311 by Frank Mckenney

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I'm working on my first PIC project, an X-10 data logger based on the
16F84. Since I'm not in a position to design or etch my own circuit
boards, I went looking for pre-designed boards on the 'web.

The only boards I could find were the microEngineeering Labs PICProto
boards, and I'd like to find a board a little closer to my needs.  I know
I'll need to mount a MAX232, an 8-pin RTC, and a crystal oscillator; I'd
_like_ to also add a 10-pin "header" for onboard programming. Plus a few
extra parts I'll suddenly discover I need at the last minute (;-).

Is anyone aware of any other sources for pre-etched PIC boards which
would be available in the USA?


Frank McKenney            / OS/2 Advisor (OS2BBS)
McKenney Associates       / Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Internet: spam_OUTrrs0059TakeThisOuTspamibm.net / TalkLink: WZ01123

1998\02\04@221012 by Stephen Court

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Not sure about USA, but Don McKenzie at DonTronics in Melbourne Australia has a pretty cool board called the DT101.  Have a look at it at http://www.dontronics.com/dt101.html

For US$6 you get enough room for a 16C84 (16F84), MAX232, RTC, EEPROM, 12bit ADC, and a little bit of proto area.
He even offers free mail delivery!!!
BTW, I don't work for Don :)

Regards,
Stephen Court
Brisbane, Australia.

-----Original Message-----
From:   Frank Mckenney [SMTP:.....rrs0059KILLspamspam@spam@ibm.net]
Sent:   Thursday, February 05, 1998 12:39 PM

I'm working on my first PIC project, an X-10 data logger based on the
16F84. Since I'm not in a position to design or etch my own circuit
boards, I went looking for pre-designed boards on the 'web.

1998\02\04@232738 by Gary T. Pepper

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At 09:38 PM 2/4/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm working on my first PIC project, an X-10 data logger based on the
>16F84. Since I'm not in a position to design or etch my own circuit
>boards, I went looking for pre-designed boards on the 'web.
>
>The only boards I could find were the microEngineeering Labs PICProto
>boards, and I'd like to find a board a little closer to my needs.  I know
>I'll need to mount a MAX232, an 8-pin RTC, and a crystal oscillator; I'd
>_like_ to also add a 10-pin "header" for onboard programming. Plus a few
>extra parts I'll suddenly discover I need at the last minute (;-).
>
>Is anyone aware of any other sources for pre-etched PIC boards which
>would be available in the USA?
>
>
>Frank McKenney            / OS/2 Advisor (OS2BBS)
>McKenney Associates       / Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
>Internet: rrs0059spamKILLspamibm.net / TalkLink: WZ01123
>
>

Jameco Electronics has some PIC prototyping boards, around $10 to
$17 (US) each.  Different models target specific PIC processors and/or
pin-out configurations.

Happy PICing!

Gary Pepper
.....gpepperKILLspamspam.....capitalnet.com


Jameco:
1-800-831-4242
http://www.jameco.com

1998\02\04@233151 by Al Williams

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We don't make PCBs, but you might look at our solderless prototyping
solution. Check out http://www.al-williams.com/awce.htm
The prototyper handles Stamp I, II, PicStics, and 16X84.

Regards,

Al Williams
AWC
*Solderless Stamp and PIC Prototyping at http://www.al-williams.com/awce.htm

{Original Message removed}

1998\02\05@000432 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:38:49 -0500 Frank Mckenney <EraseMErrs0059spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTibm.net>
writes:
>I'm working on my first PIC project, an X-10 data logger based on the
>16F84. Since I'm not in a position to design or etch my own circuit
>boards, I went looking for pre-designed boards on the 'web.

You don't need an etched circuit board to make a small PIC circuit work.
Nearly all of my prototypes are on perforated board (available at Radio
Shack at astronomical markup).  It's low cost, infinitely rewirable, and
usually has room for last-minute changes.  Good soldering skill is
required.  If you don't have it, you ought to learn sometime anyway.

Here are some general practices.

- Use good IC sockets.  The plastic ones with dual leaf contacts are
fine.  There should be metal on both sides of where the pin would go
looking into the holes from the top.  Stay away from plastic ones with
just a simple single spring contact, they fall apart.  Machined-pin ones
(gold, of course) can be used if there's a big surplus in the budget.
There isn't much advantage to them for general hacker work.

- Glue the socket that will contain the PIC to the board.  I use hot-melt
glue.  This saves stress on the wiring when the PIC is repeatedly removed
for programming and reinserted.

- Put a 0.1 or 0.22 uF bypass capacitor at the top or the bottom end of
the PIC, and run its leads directly to the Vdd and Vss pins.  Of course
when using larger PICs that have multiple Vdd and/or Vss pins, connect
them all together.  Wire ground and power to all the ICs using #24 bare
copper wire before installing any other wiring.  Put capacitors near the
other ICs as needed (Sequential circuits, like shift registers, memory
chips, counters, etc. definitely should have them).

- Put the crystal and its capacitors right next to the PIC.  The wires
need to be short and direct.  The midpoint of the 2 capacitors can be
connected either to Vdd or GND.

- Use wire-wrap wire for the signal wires.  Cut it to length, and strip
1/8" off of each end.  Bend a hook in the end and wrap it tightly around
the pin, then solder.  This takes some practice.  A medium sized pair of
"forcepts" or "hemostats" or whetever the doctors that use them call
them, is very good for bending the wire.

Circuits made this way can be the same size or smaller than printed ones
(of course, not if SMT parts were to be used) and quite durable.  It only
takes a couple of hours, and no special materials, to make a
one-of-a-kind circuit with 3 or 4 chips.


_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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1998\02\05@001239 by Leon Heller

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In message <199802050240.VAA000.78@localhost>, Frank Mckenney
<rrs0059spamspam_OUTIBM.NET> writes
>I'm working on my first PIC project, an X-10 data logger based on the
>16F84. Since I'm not in a position to design or etch my own circuit
>boards, I went looking for pre-designed boards on the 'web.
>
>The only boards I could find were the microEngineeering Labs PICProto
>boards, and I'd like to find a board a little closer to my needs.  I know
>I'll need to mount a MAX232, an 8-pin RTC, and a crystal oscillator; I'd
>_like_ to also add a 10-pin "header" for onboard programming. Plus a few
>extra parts I'll suddenly discover I need at the last minute (;-).
>
>Is anyone aware of any other sources for pre-etched PIC boards which
>would be available in the USA?

Why not just use a piece of Veroboard? It's ideal for prototyping with
PICs and similar devices.

Leon
--
Leon Heller: @spam@leonKILLspamspamlfheller.demon.co.uk http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk
Amateur Radio Callsign G1HSM    Tel: +44 (0) 118 947 1424
See http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk/dds.htm for details of my AD9850
DDS system. See " "/diy_dsp.htm for a simple DIY DSP ADSP-2104 system.

1998\02\05@132641 by Rob Santello

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> Leon wrote:
>Why not just use a piece of Veroboard? It's ideal for prototyping with
>PICs and similar devices.

My question - is "Veroboard" the same as "Stripboard"?  I've been seeing
several magazine projects  built on Stripboard lately.  It looks like it
would be a fast way to transfer a design to a PCB with relatively little
effort.  Seems the most difficult part is laying out the parts so it works
with the parallel track design.  I've even seen the ad for a CAD program to
aid with this called "Stripboard Magic" (http://www.ambyr.com).
- Has anyone used stripboard?
- Is it really a quick and easy way to put a project onto a PCB?
- How easy is it to 'cut' the tracks (is the special cutting tool more
helpful or even needed)?
- Is it relatively cheap? (compare to "perforated board ("available at
Radio Shack at astronomical markup"))".
- And lastly.  If it is practical, is it available in the US.  I couldn't
find any suppliers on the web.

Thanks,
--rob--

1998\02\05@142304 by John Payson

picon face
> - Has anyone used stripboard?

I use perfboards laid out with a pattern of horizontal quads/fives seperated
by pairs of vertical buses; the buses (generally useful for power/ground)
are also available at the top and bottom of the board.  My company laid out
this board, got oodles of them made, and has found them quite useful for a
variety of projects.  Some of my design decisions on the board were less than
ideal (I put on some nice connector areas, but should have just put in a DB25
rather than both a 25 and a 9; and I should have only included one set of
double-row connectors rather than two).

Still, though, IMHO a combined horizontal/vertical arrangement can be handy.
Radio Shack has a couple of boards with this general idea, though they're
not perfect.

> - Is it really a quick and easy way to put a project onto a PCB?

Our custom perfboards work out pretty nicely.  Plated through-holes and
solder mask are nice (except when I oops and have to unsolder something.

1998\02\05@142354 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Rob Santello wrote:

> > Leon wrote:
> >Why not just use a piece of Veroboard? It's ideal for prototyping with
> >PICs and similar devices.
-snip-
> My question - is "Veroboard" the same as "Stripboard"?  I've been seeing
-snip-
> - Is it relatively cheap? (compare to "perforated board ("available at
> Radio Shack at astronomical markup"))".
-snip-

Hi Rob,
In the US you'd look for "Vectorbord" (their spelling, not mine). Radio
Shack's perforated board is a very low quality version. The Vector epoxy
glass board is tough stuff.

Vector part number 196P44WE is a good place to start.

You have to get good with your hands(no, no, not the way Beavis is good
with his hands!), and follow the other good advice about hotgluing the
sockets down(and using double-wipe sockets).

Cheers,
Bob

1998\02\05@153332 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Have not everybody? ;)

>- Is it really a quick and easy way to put a project onto a PCB?

Yes.

>- How easy is it to 'cut' the tracks (is the special cutting tool more
>helpful or even needed)?

Special tool is like a 3mm (1/8") drill bit. You can grind (is it the right
word? a little screwdriver so the tip is like a drill and use it.

>- Is it relatively cheap? (compare to "perforated board ("available at
>Radio Shack at astronomical markup"))".
>- And lastly.  If it is practical, is it available in the US.  I couldn't
>find any suppliers on the web.

Lots of manufacturers and types in Europe. Pertinax or glass fibre. Also a
lot of versions with cut traces for use with IC's and other compoents
without need for cutting, also with suitable power supply rails. There are
also version with tracks like vero but tracks cut in very small length (3)
and also a type with only a copper ring around every hole.

Personally, I prefer the totally copperless board described in earlier letter.
/Morgan
/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  KILLspammrtKILLspamspaminame.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\02\05@161509 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 11:03 AM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>-snip-
>
>Hi Rob,
>In the US you'd look for "Vectorbord" (their spelling, not mine). Radio
>Shack's perforated board is a very low quality version. The Vector epoxy
>glass board is tough stuff.
>
>Vector part number 196P44WE is a good place to start.

Bob et al.,

I have never seen inexpensive vectorboard. The only two suppliers that I
know of for it are digikey and mouser, and they seem to charge several
times what the shack charges for boards like this. Take, for example, an
ISA card type prototyping PCB, the shack has them for about $17,
Vectorboard hits you for about $50, if I recall. Wow, if I had to spend $50
each time I made a significant change to a prototype, I wouldn't be able to
do anything with electronics. Not only is this true for the specialized
boards like ISA cards, but it seems true even for the other more common
types, aw well. PLEASE do tell me if I am missing something here or if
there is a cheaper supplier.

Thanks,

Sean



+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Fight injustice, please look at
http://homepages.enterprise.net/toolan/joanandrews/

Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7TakeThisOuTspamcornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\02\05@164436 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Sean Breheny wrote:

> I have never seen inexpensive vectorboard. The only two suppliers that I

The 4.5 x 17 inch vectorboard, best grade, is about $9. Less than the cost
of a windowed PIC. That's about $0.12 per square inch.

The stuff with copper planes and plated holes is more expensive, and a
pain to use.

The really crappy stuff is about 5 or 6 dollars a sheet.

cheers,
Bob

1998\02\05@171415 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
At 01:23 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>> I have never seen inexpensive vectorboard. The only two suppliers that I
>
>The 4.5 x 17 inch vectorboard, best grade, is about $9. Less than the cost
>of a windowed PIC. That's about $0.12 per square inch.
>
>The stuff with copper planes and plated holes is more expensive, and a
>pain to use.
>
>The really crappy stuff is about 5 or 6 dollars a sheet.

Hello again,

I assume from what you are saying that the 4.5 x 17 inch vectorboard has no
copper on it. Please excuse me for being a newbie when it comes to
different prototyping methods, but how do you use a board which has no
copper on it? wire wrap? solder individual wires?

Thanks and sorry for the OT ness, but I though that this might best be left
on the list so that others could see the answer, also.

Thanks,

Sean

+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Fight injustice, please look at
http://homepages.enterprise.net/toolan/joanandrews/

Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
spamBeGoneshb7spamBeGonespamcornell.edu
Phone(USA): (607) 253-0315

1998\02\05@182951 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Sean Breheny wrote:
> I assume from what you are saying that the 4.5 x 17 inch vectorboard has no
> copper on it. Please excuse me for being a newbie when it comes to
> different prototyping methods, but how do you use a board which has no
> copper on it? wire wrap? solder individual wires?

Someone wrote about this method last night as well, but a recap(or at
least, the way I do it).
No copper on the vectorboard, just put in the parts and solder them
together. Discrete parts like resistors and capacitors can just be
soldered together. Integrated circuits should be put in sockets and parts
can be soldered to the sockets. If you need to connect pins together or go
further than the than something reaches, solder on pieces of wire. The IC
sockets will survive better if you use a spot of hot-glue to hold them to
the vectorboard, and don't solder to the pins unless the socket is
empty(especially if you used a cheap socket). Wire-wrap wire works ok, or
solid wire salvaged from the phone company.

For pictures of this method, take a look at:
http://www.bobblick.com/bob/stamp/charger.html
www.bobblick.com/bob/projects/sign2.html
www.bobblick.com/bob/projects/mclock.html
http://www.bobblick.com/bob/projects/hbridge/hb2.jpg

sorry none of them are bottom views.

cheers,
bob

1998\02\06@012048 by Leon Heller

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In message <TakeThisOuT199802051823.KAA17895EraseMEspamspam_OUTtomcat.ns.net>, Rob Santello
<RemoveMErmsantespamTakeThisOuTNS.NET> writes
>> Leon wrote:
>>Why not just use a piece of Veroboard? It's ideal for prototyping with
>>PICs and similar devices.
>
>My question - is "Veroboard" the same as "Stripboard"?  I've been seeing
>several magazine projects  built on Stripboard lately.  It looks like it
>would be a fast way to transfer a design to a PCB with relatively little
>effort.  Seems the most difficult part is laying out the parts so it works
>with the parallel track design.  I've even seen the ad for a CAD program to
>aid with this called "Stripboard Magic" (http://www.ambyr.com).
>- Has anyone used stripboard?

Yes, Veroboard the stripboard made by Vero.


>- Is it really a quick and easy way to put a project onto a PCB?

Quite quick and easy.

>- How easy is it to 'cut' the tracks (is the special cutting tool more
>helpful or even needed)?

You can use a small drill.

>- Is it relatively cheap? (compare to "perforated board ("available at
>Radio Shack at astronomical markup"))".

Fairly cheap.

>- And lastly.  If it is practical, is it available in the US.  I couldn't
>find any suppliers on the web.

You can get it in the US from Farnell (and Vero).

>
>Thanks,
>--rob--

--
Leon Heller: leonEraseMEspam.....lfheller.demon.co.uk http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk
Amateur Radio Callsign G1HSM    Tel: +44 (0) 118 947 1424
See http://www.lfheller.demon.co.uk/dds.htm for details of my AD9850
DDS system. See " "/diy_dsp.htm for a simple DIY DSP ADSP-2104 system.

1998\02\06@043613 by Leo van Loon

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My experience tells me;

- Making simple single projects, stripboard is usefull. It is of no use as
first step in the production of a PCB.

- More complex single projects are best made by a system like ROADRUNNER,
sold by Farnell. Connections are made direct from pin-to-pin with solderable
wire through 'castellated' distribution strips.

Mind that these methods are very time expensive. It is very difficult to
avoid mistakes and to find the mistakes.

- Make prototypes for PCB production direct as PCB. A cheap EDA program as
EDWin made by Visionics: http://www.bahnhof.se/~visionics/tindex.htm  let
you make the PCB as you produce the schematic. It annotates and
back-annotates schematic in PCB artwork and back from PCB to schematic.
Simple printing and photoresist etching makes a PCB in half an hour. It
takes a lot of time to get the experience, but this experience pays back.

Leo van Loon
http://www.tip.nl/users/sbb.simpeltronics



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Rob Santello <EraseMErmsantespamNS.NET>
Aan: RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: vrijdag 6 februari 1998 9:05
Onderwerp: Re: PIC Prototyping board sources


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