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PICList Thread
'PIC Erase Times'
1996\06\17@071324 by John B C Walker

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Dear All,

This is a very simple question:

I have just started working with the EPROM after having started off on
the '84. How long should a 16C57 be placed under a UV lamp for total erasing?

Thanks.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: spam_OUTceejbcwTakeThisOuTspamcee.hw.ac.uk
              .....ceejbwKILLspamspam@spam@pp.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\06\17@080759 by Newfound Electronics

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>Dear All,
>
>This is a very simple question:
>
>I have just started working with the EPROM after having started off on
>the '84. How long should a 16C57 be placed under a UV lamp for total erasing?
>
>Thanks.
>
>J.W.
>

Generally, the 16C57s erase in two to three minutes but I have not timed it
exactly. This is the same with the other 5x devices but NOT so for most of
the 16Cxx devices that can take 10 to 30 minutes depending on the eraser and
over 2 hours if the code protection is "ON."

A few weeks ago I posted a list of devices that have uneraseable code
protection so keep this in mind also if using the 16Cxx OR THE **NEW**
16C55x DEVICES!!!! (16C554/556/558)

Regards

Jim

1996\06\17@092847 by John B C Walker

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On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Newfound Electronics wrote:

> >I have just started working with the EPROM after having started off on
> >the '84. How long should a 16C57 be placed under a UV lamp for total erasing?
>
> Generally, the 16C57s erase in two to three minutes but I have not timed it
> exactly. This is the same with the other 5x devices but NOT so for most of
> the 16Cxx devices that can take 10 to 30 minutes depending on the eraser and
> over 2 hours if the code protection is "ON."
>

Thanks for the reply.
Is it possible to permanently damage a PIC by leaving it for too long a
period under a UV lamp?

Cheers.

J.W.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
       Johnnie Walker
       MSc Digital Systems Engineering
       Heriot-Watt University
       email: ceejbcwspamKILLspamcee.hw.ac.uk
              .....ceejbwKILLspamspam.....pp.hw.ac.uk
       www: http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceejbcw
       tel: (0131) 343 2864
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1996\06\17@131206 by Newfound Electronics

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>On Mon, 17 Jun 1996, Newfound Electronics wrote:
>
>> >I have just started working with the EPROM after having started off on
>> >the '84. How long should a 16C57 be placed under a UV lamp for total
erasing?
{Quote hidden}

Johnnie,

I'm happy to help out but now you are asking a tough one. Some people claim
it will shorten the life of the device but others say this is rubbish.

I have left devices under the eraser for hours and it didn't seem to   hurt
them.

Somehow I thing the real danger in over erasing is if the eraser produces
heat. It is the heat build-up that is likely to kill the device more than
anything.

Keep in mind the devices have a finite life and are rated for 100
erase/program cycles.

I believe it is the actual programming that slowly kills the device more
than the erasing however, don't be suprised to hear a conflicting opinion.

Regards

Jim

1996\06\17@152206 by Todd Peterson

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At 01:59 PM 6/17/96 +0100, you wrote:

>> Generally, the 16C57s erase in two to three minutes but I have not timed it
>> exactly. This is the same with the other 5x devices but NOT so for most of
>> the 16Cxx devices that can take 10 to 30 minutes depending on the eraser and
>> over 2 hours if the code protection is "ON."

Really?  I've never had to go longer than 45 seconds with a PIC16C57.  I'm
using a UltraViolet Products (UVP) eraser, and it seems to work very well.
Usually I get a complete erase in 30 seconds.  I have gone through many
erase cycles on a lot of chips, so I don't think it's too hard on the PIC's.

-Todd Peterson



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1996\06\17@171846 by Newfound Electronics

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>At 01:59 PM 6/17/96 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>> Generally, the 16C57s erase in two to three minutes but I have not timed it
>>> exactly. This is the same with the other 5x devices but NOT so for most of
>>> the 16Cxx devices that can take 10 to 30 minutes depending on the eraser and
>>> over 2 hours if the code protection is "ON."
>
>Really?  I've never had to go longer than 45 seconds with a PIC16C57.  I'm
>using a UltraViolet Products (UVP) eraser, and it seems to work very well.
>Usually I get a complete erase in 30 seconds.  I have gone through many
>erase cycles on a lot of chips, so I don't think it's too hard on the PIC's.
>
>-Todd Peterson
>
Todd,

Well there are erasers and erasers! I have been supprised that PICLISTERS
have quoted times about half of what my eraser takes. I too have "thrashed"
my 16C57 JWs. They are VERY robust and alway program 100% The only cause of
death I have experience with them is a slightly too high Vpp voltage
problem. They don't like this but otherwise they are "TANKS!"

Regards,

Jim

1996\06\18@020221 by fastfwd

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Todd Peterson <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> >> Generally, the 16C57s erase in two to three minutes but I have
> >> not timed it exactly. This is the same with the other 5x devices
> >> but NOT so for most of the 16Cxx devices that can take 10 to 30
> >> minutes depending on the eraser and over 2 hours if the code
> >> protection is "ON."
>
> Really?  I've never had to go longer than 45 seconds with a
> PIC16C57.  I'm using a UltraViolet Products (UVP) eraser, and it
> seems to work very well. Usually I get a complete erase in 30
> seconds.

Todd and others:

The necessary erase-time for a particular EPROM is ONLY a function of
the intensity of UV light at the proper frequency that's impinging on
the die.

That intensity is governed by three factors:  The center-frequency of
your UV source and the shape of its frequency spectrum, the intensity
of the source, and (usually most important) the distance between the
source and the die.

Many UV erasers (e.g., the "Datarase" series that's so popular among
hobbyists) use relatively low-intensity bulbs but place the chips
right up against them.  Others (like the Spectraline erasers)
position the chips further away from higher-intensity bulbs...
There's a large difference in erase-times between those two devices.

In any case, the relative erase-times that were described for 16C5x
devices and 16Cxx devices are pretty accurate, and the newer parts
whose code-protect fuses are non-permanent DO take an incredibly long
time to erase.

-Andy

P.S.  Wait a minute.  I can see it coming, so before anyone asks...

     No, you CAN'T "over-erase" a PIC by leaving it in the eraser
     too long.

Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\06\18@064523 by Robert Lunn

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> -Andy
>
> P.S.  Wait a minute.  I can see it coming, so before anyone asks...
>
>       No, you CAN'T "over-erase" a PIC by leaving it in the eraser
>       too long.

Too late Andy. ROTFS

___Bob

1996\06\18@073350 by eyal

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>
> I'm happy to help out but now you are asking a tough one. Some
> people claim it will shorten the life of the device but others
> say this is rubbish.
>
> I have left devices under the eraser for hours and it didn't seem
> to hurt them.
>
I ereased a number of PIC 16C5x.
Without the protect bit the erease took about 10-20 minuts.
I think that the time diffrence is caused by the eraser.
I once set the protect bit. After that the devices needed about
20 - 40 minuts to erease (with the protect bit cleared).

Eyal Oppenheimer
E-mail: RemoveMEeyaloTakeThisOuTspamaks.com
R&D
Aladdin Knowledge Systems Ltd.
Tel:    +972-3-636-2222
Fax:    +972-3-537-5796
WWW Home Page:  http://www.aks.com

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