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'PART III: TROUBLESHOOTING WITH ITU PROGRAMMER'
1998\03\30@104159 by Wilson Tam

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Good Day, This is version three of the
TROUBLESHOOTING WITH ITU PIC PROGRAMMER series.

The following text maybe a bit detailed, however
I am not experience with PIC, (since I'm a student
from Toronto).  Thus, please bare with me as I
share my problems to All, and if anyone as any
suggestions, please help me out!  Appreciate it!

Begin:

After reading about some of the suggestions given
by many PIC programmers, I have went back to my
work bench and tried the suggested solutions, but
as you can see I still encounter the same
problem:  ERROR IN PROGRAMMING!

Going back to the basics:>

Objective:  Program 16F84

If any one has purchased this ITUPIC programmer,
(KIT VERSION), could anyone tell me whats
required to get it operating properly.

Up to this point I have tried:

1) Changing the programming wire (presently using
  a 5 inch male/female D-type wire.
2) Checking the output voltage at specific points
     a)  Input voltage is 18-19V DAC
     b)  TTL (7406)  = 5V
     c)  Vin into LM317  18V+
         Vout from LM317 regulator gives 13V (exactly as
                                              specified)
3) Also tried externally power the Vin for LM317, supplying 18V+ from two
  9V dry cells.  Vout reads 13V (good!)
4) Since the ITU program is DOS based, I have load the
  programm in MS-DOS settings.
5) Checked soldering job.

Questions:
1)  In terms of the ITU solftware,
   The READ from PIC16 and ERASE PIC16 functions properly.
   However, when I PROGRAM , the ERROR IN PROGRAMMING shows
   up.

   Q)  In MPLAB and MPASM; before I assemble my file,
                            I have
                            (i)
                             selected the N914??  Intel
                             settings (instead of default mode) as
                             specified in the ITU manual.
                            (ii)
                             selected 16F84 microcontroller.
   Observations: The programming LEDs does blink for sec,
                 but immediately afterwards, the error shows up.
                 However, I believe the HEX file is read properly.
                 The problem is the interface between PIC and
                 software.

Additional Note:

After talking to a friend of mine (whom is also part
of this PICLIST), we discovered that there are some
possible problems in the ITU  design.  To be exact, R11
(if you have ITU PIC specs) is a 100ohm resistor placed
in parallel with a Data line (D0), however it doesn't
make sense for it to be this small in magnitude.
If 5V is being sent in, the resistor would act as load,
therefore taking in most of the input current, leaving
a sufficiently low current into the main curcuit.
Therefore, my question is should I try:
    1) desolder this R11?
    2) Increase the resistance (approx 10kohmn)?
According to your experience, what effect does these
changes do the circuits.

Thanks!  Your suggestions are greatly valued!

1998\03\30@110038 by ogerio Odriozola

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face
I have an ITU PIC programmer (kit), have not used it for more than a year
(got Picstart-plus) so I don't remember much about running the software.
But it worked ok from the first run. I followed the ITU design exactly so I
don't think the problem is there unless a part is shot, I think software is
more likely a possible cause. You could try to reload your software into
your computer, or contact Chris at ITU.






spam_OUTtamwTakeThisOuTspamECF.UTORONTO.CA on 30/03/98 09:39:32 AM

Please respond to .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

To:   PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Rogerio Odriozola/MTY/TVA/Dataflux)
Subject:  PART III: TROUBLESHOOTING WITH ITU PROGRAMMER




Good Day, This is version three of the
TROUBLESHOOTING WITH ITU PIC PROGRAMMER series.
The following text maybe a bit detailed, however
I am not experience with PIC, (since I'm a student
from Toronto).  Thus, please bare with me as I
share my problems to All, and if anyone as any
suggestions, please help me out!  Appreciate it!
Begin:
After reading about some of the suggestions given
by many PIC programmers, I have went back to my
work bench and tried the suggested solutions, but
as you can see I still encounter the same
problem:  ERROR IN PROGRAMMING!
Going back to the basics:>
Objective:  Program 16F84
If any one has purchased this ITUPIC programmer,
(KIT VERSION), could anyone tell me whats
required to get it operating properly.
Up to this point I have tried:
1) Changing the programming wire (presently using
  a 5 inch male/female D-type wire.
2) Checking the output voltage at specific points
     a)  Input voltage is 18-19V DAC
     b)  TTL (7406)  = 5V
     c)  Vin into LM317  18V+
         Vout from LM317 regulator gives 13V (exactly as
                                              specified)
3) Also tried externally power the Vin for LM317, supplying 18V+ from two
  9V dry cells.  Vout reads 13V (good!)
4) Since the ITU program is DOS based, I have load the
  programm in MS-DOS settings.
5) Checked soldering job.
Questions:
1)  In terms of the ITU solftware,
   The READ from PIC16 and ERASE PIC16 functions properly.
   However, when I PROGRAM , the ERROR IN PROGRAMMING shows
   up.
   Q)  In MPLAB and MPASM; before I assemble my file,
                            I have
                            (i)
                             selected the N914??  Intel
                             settings (instead of default mode) as
                             specified in the ITU manual.
                            (ii)
                             selected 16F84 microcontroller.
   Observations: The programming LEDs does blink for sec,
                 but immediately afterwards, the error shows up.
                 However, I believe the HEX file is read properly.
                 The problem is the interface between PIC and
                 software.
Additional Note:
After talking to a friend of mine (whom is also part
of this PICLIST), we discovered that there are some
possible problems in the ITU  design.  To be exact, R11
(if you have ITU PIC specs) is a 100ohm resistor placed
in parallel with a Data line (D0), however it doesn't
make sense for it to be this small in magnitude.
If 5V is being sent in, the resistor would act as load,
therefore taking in most of the input current, leaving
a sufficiently low current into the main curcuit.
Therefore, my question is should I try:
    1) desolder this R11?
    2) Increase the resistance (approx 10kohmn)?
According to your experience, what effect does these
changes do the circuits.
Thanks!  Your suggestions are greatly valued!

1998\03\30@110630 by ogerio Odriozola

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face
I have the ITU PIC programmer (kit version), haven't used it for more than
a year (got Picstart-Plus) so I don't remember much about the software. But
it worked ok since the first run, and I followed ITU's design 100%. I think
the problem would more likely be in your cable or software unless you have
a shot part. Have you tried reloading your software from the diskette? Have
you tried it from another PC?
You could also contact Chris at ITU.

Rogerio

1998\03\30@114049 by Norm Cramer

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face
I think your problem is still your cable.

You did not indicate that you tried it with the programmer plugged directly
into the PC's port.  When I tried to use mine with a ribbon cable, it
failed exactly as you described.  I fixed the problem by using a cable with
a metal shell not a plastic one which most ribbon cable connectors use
(contacts the chassis of the PC).  The shells on both ends of the cable
must be connected together for it to work.  This solution worked for mine
and a friend who had the same problem.  If you don't want to make a new
cable, try connecting the PC's chassis to the programmers ground and see if
it works.

Norm

At 10:39 AM 3/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\03\30@120530 by Theo Alpert
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face
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Wilson Tam wrote:

[big snip]
> If any one has purchased this ITUPIC programmer,
> (KIT VERSION), could anyone tell me whats
> required to get it operating properly.

See my previous note to the list. I'm using one of these that I
purchased in kit form.

> Up to this point I have tried:
>
> 1) Changing the programming wire (presently using
>    a 5 inch male/female D-type wire.

As both Norm (among others) and myself (in my last message)
mentioned:
Try directly connect the programmer to the PC's parallel port.

> 2) Checking the output voltage at specific points
>       a)  Input voltage is 18-19V DAC

DAC? You've tried both DC and AC?
Try switching to a 12-16 VAC supply.

[snip]
> 4) Since the ITU program is DOS based, I have load the
>    programm in MS-DOS settings.

Try booting up an old DOS 6.x bootdisk and trying things.

> Questions:
> 1)  In terms of the ITU solftware,
>     The READ from PIC16 and ERASE PIC16 functions properly.
>     However, when I PROGRAM , the ERROR IN PROGRAMMING shows
>     up.

Been there, had this exact problem.

[snip]
>     Observations: The programming LEDs does blink for sec,
>                   but immediately afterwards, the error shows up.
>                   However, I believe the HEX file is read properly.
>                   The problem is the interface between PIC and
>                   software.

The problem is R11. See below.

{Quote hidden}

I'm not sure my first message made it to the list.
Solder a (aprox) 12ohm resistor across the current R11 (100 ohms)
I used the bottom of the board, to make future removal easier.

-theo

1998\03\30@133927 by KEAN, ROB

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face
I ordered an ITU PIC1+ kit about 6 weeks ago.  The programmer worked
correctly the first time.
My guess would be that you have a bad part... Probably the 74LS10 (I
think that's the chip, I'm not at home right now to verify that).

robkean
.....rkeanKILLspamspam.....scsn.net

> {Original Message removed}

1998\03\30@134148 by KEAN, ROB

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face
yeah, Chris has always been very helpful whenever I've had a question.
The longest I had to wait for an answer was 8:00am the next morning...

robkean

> {Original Message removed}

1998\03\30@142921 by Gaston Gagnon

picon face
It seems to me that this previous message did not get trough. So here it
is
again.

Wilson Tam wrote:

> ... regarding the problems I encountered during
> the programming of a PIC16F84, this part II takes the
> suggestions received ....

Hi Tam!
I have purchased the preassembled version of the ITU PIC-1a rev 2.0 and
made NO CHANGES to it except using a standard 6 ft cable instead of the
4
ft one received with the programmer. ;-)

My PC it is a 486 133Mhz but I have used it with equal seccess on many
Pentium 100 machines all running Win95.

There is one other BIG DIFFERENCE (beside the cable length) and this is
my grain of salt,  I am using the program written by Nigel Goodwin.
You can download  WPicProg from Nigel's site. This program runs under
Win95.

   EraseMEnigelgspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTlpilsley.demon.co.uk

Remember, after you start the program, to make shure to check mark:
Output, Clock and Input and leave: Vdd and Vpp unchecked on the Hardware
Settings panel in the Options menu.
Nigel added some buttons on that panel that I find very helpfull for
troubleshoothing wiring and other hardware problems.

I am glad if this helps you.
Regards
Gaston Gagnon.

1998\03\31@213705 by Frank Mckenney

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face
Tam,

One point I'm not clear on.  Are you using the programmer simply as a PIC
programmer (putting the PIC into the ITU ZIF socket)?  Or are you hooking
the ITU board up to your circuit and attempting to use it as an
"in-service programmer"?

If the latter, do you still have a problem if you remove the PIC from your
circuit and plug it into the ITU programmer ZIF socket?


Frank McKenney            / OS/2 Advisor (OS2BBS)
McKenney Associates       / Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Internet: rrs0059spamspam_OUTibm.net / TalkLink: WZ01123

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