Post by thread:P16Pro Programming problem

Greetings. I recently built Bojan Dobaj's P16Pro programmer and am using the P16Pro software to try to program a 16F877. I seem to have no problems when I try to erase, read or blank check the microcontroller, but when I go to program it, I get a programming error. Here are the numbers it has spit out at me so far: 2 151F 2A1F 0 1283 2883 0 1283 2903 3 159F 349F I have gotten some of the numbers a couple of times. I don't know what these numbers represent. The only thing I can think of is that I'm pretty sure my voltages are off a bit. My +5V is more like +6.6V and my +13V is around +14.5V. I built the power supply section exactly as described. In fact I built it twice as I was sure I had burned one of the regulators, but I still get these voltage readings. Here is the url if you wish to check out the programmer/software: www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620/ Just in case it helps, I trying to run this on a 386SX25. I checked out the programmer in the PICAll software and near as I could tell it seemed to work. If someone had a checklist or procedure to follow to verify that it is working ok that would be great. I hope someone out there can help me...I don't even know where to begin. Thank you in advance, Josh Koffman spam_OUTjoshyTakeThisOuTmb.sympatico.ca

Josh Koffman wrote: > > Greetings. > I recently built Bojan Dobaj's P16Pro programmer and am using the P16Pro > software to try to program a 16F877. snip--- > I hope someone out there can help me...I don't even know where to begin. > > Thank you in advance, > Josh Koffman > .....joshyKILLspam@spam@mb.sympatico.ca Read the extensive help text built into the product. There is also a test feature to check voltages, and yes your voltages look way out. Don McKenzie donKILLspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and PICmicro Hardware and Software. Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html Simplest-Cheapest Intro to Micros?? http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

> > I recently built Bojan Dobaj's P16Pro programmer and am using the P16Pro > > software to try to program a 16F877. > > Read the extensive help text built into the product. There is also a > test feature to check voltages, and yes your voltages look way out. Thanks for replying Don. Do you think it will help if I redo the power supply section with two LM317 each tweaked so I get the exact voltages I need? Also, where are these help texts? In the zip file there wasn't much. Are they in the help section of the PICAll software? Thank you again for your help, Josh Koffman .....joshyKILLspam.....mb.sympatico.ca

Josh Koffman wrote: > > > > I recently built Bojan Dobaj's P16Pro programmer and am using the P16Pro > > > software to try to program a 16F877. > > > > Read the extensive help text built into the product. There is also a > > test feature to check voltages, and yes your voltages look way out. > > Thanks for replying Don. Do you think it will help if I redo the power > supply section with two LM317 each tweaked so I get the exact voltages I > need? Also, where are these help texts? In the zip file there wasn't > much. Are they in the help section of the PICAll software? > > Thank you again for your help, > Josh Koffman > EraseMEjoshyspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmb.sympatico.ca I hope you are talking about the PICALLW file, or the windows version. set the hardware up to p16pro first. you can wander you way through the on line help, and it gives you details to run the test program and toggle the printer port bits for voltage testing and operation. You don't need the accuracy of 317s or 1% resistors, these voltages aren't critical, but the measurements you gave almost sounds like the meter is faulty. I mean a 7805 should give you an output of +/- 5%. In fact, i have found 4.9 to 5.0 is general with the regs I get. Don McKenzie donspam_OUTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and PICmicro Hardware and Software. Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html Simplest-Cheapest Intro to Micros?? http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

Ken Kaarvik wrote: > > > My +5V is more like +6.6V and my > > +13V is around +14.5V. I built the power supply section exactly as > > described. In fact I built it twice as I was sure I had burned one of > > the regulators, but I still get these voltage readings > > These are the results I had too when I used a 74HC05. It has a protection > diode on the output. > Make sure you're using an "LS" part (74LS05). I use TTL parts not HC or LS, this may be your problem, i know TI LS parts can be a real pain. In fact all i use for the simple programmer is the 7407. Peter in HK for his DIY kits, supplies a 7406, as he had similar problems to me. you just need to set up the hardware config to suit the chip type, that is 7406/7407. Don McKenzie @spam@donKILLspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and PICmicro Hardware and Software. Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html Simplest-Cheapest Intro to Micros?? http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

> > Thanks for replying Don. Do you think it will help if I redo the power > > supply section with two LM317 each tweaked so I get the exact voltages I > > need? Also, where are these help texts? In the zip file there wasn't > > much. Are they in the help section of the PICAll software? > > I hope you are talking about the PICALLW file, or the windows version. > set the hardware up to p16pro first. > you can wander you way through the on line help, and it gives you > details to run the test program and toggle the printer port bits for > voltage testing and operation. I am going to look for these in a few minutes > You don't need the accuracy of 317s or 1% resistors, these voltages > aren't critical, but the measurements you gave almost sounds like the > meter is faulty. > > I mean a 7805 should give you an output of +/- 5%. In fact, i have found > 4.9 to 5.0 is general with the regs I get. Actually I suspected my regulators were bad, so I breadboarded the power supply section. With all the parts in I got about 6.6 and about 14.5 volts on the outputs, but as soon as I pulled the 7808 out, the output dropped from 6.6 to 5.0V. I don't know why. Both regulators check out separately. I am going to try it with two separate supplies I think. Also how could this be a problem of what buffer I used? Thank you very much for your help! Josh Koffman KILLspamjoshyKILLspammb.sympatico.ca

74LS06 is a 30V open collector output, supply current is 31mA!!!, while the 74LS05 is lower voltage (5V) open collector output, its supply current is only 2.4mA. The biggest difference between TTL and LS units, is the fanin/fanout, means that the input/output impedances for the TTL are lower than the LS, of course it generate a power hungry qualification for the TTL units. In most cases (not all), you can use a LS in place of a plain TTL, by including a pull up resistor at the LS output (around 2k2), while the input is not always that need a pull-down resistor (to simulate the TTL lower impedance) around 15k. TTL, LS or HCT at the PC parallel port, will work a little bit different, mainly regarding to sharp pulses and capacitances on the cable, etc. You will not see HCT units at the parallel port output, and in some pc cards you can see plain TTL as the output, just to satisfy some external low impedances circuits (old printers and other fancy devices). Using a different impedance chip (TTL instead LS or vice-versa), can cause problems with bounced signals and "ringing" noises. Some high speed applications as programmers and eprom emulators, can get some problems mainly at the "clock" pin. In some cases you need to "play" with a capacitor from the Clock pin to ground (your circuit side), start with a 30pf and go up to 20nF, you can find one that "miraculously" makes your unit works nice. It depends on lots of things, even ground loops between your PC and the external device, up to fluorescent lights installed right above the parallel cable... I got a T-Shirt from the club saying "PUT A CAPACITOR ON IT". Wagner. Don McKenzie wrote: > > Ken Kaarvik wrote: > > > > > My +5V is more like +6.6V and my > > > +13V is around +14.5V. I built the power supply section exactly as > > > described. In fact I built it twice as I was sure I had burned one of > > > the regulators, but I still get these voltage readings To make sure your voltmeter is operating nice (gross calibration check), measure a 9V (new) battery. Looks like your voltmeter is uncalibrated indicating more than actual voltage. If it is the case, the 9V battery would read around 12V, considering your misread 5V as 6.6V. {Quote hidden}> > These are the results I had too when I used a 74HC05. It has a protection > > diode on the output. > > Make sure you're using an "LS" part (74LS05). > > I use TTL parts not HC or LS, this may be your problem, i know TI LS > parts can be a real pain. > > In fact all i use for the simple programmer is the 7407. Peter in HK for > his DIY kits, supplies a 7406, as he had similar problems to me. you > just need to set up the hardware config to suit the chip type, that is > 7406/7407. > > Don McKenzie RemoveMEdonTakeThisOuTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

> > My +5V is more like +6.6V and my > > +13V is around +14.5V. I built the power supply section exactly as > > described. In fact I built it twice as I was sure I had burned one of > > the regulators, but I still get these voltage readings > > These are the results I had too when I used a 74HC05. It has a protection > diode on the output. > Make sure you're using an "LS" part (74LS05). Ken, I am using the 74LS05. And the power supply is giving those voltages even when disconnected from the rest of the circuit. I will be posting more in a few minutes... Thank you, Josh Koffman spamBeGonejoshyspamBeGonemb.sympatico.ca

Don, > I hope you are talking about the PICALLW file, or the windows version. > set the hardware up to p16pro first. > you can wander you way through the on line help, and it gives you > details to run the test program and toggle the printer port bits for > voltage testing and operation. I am talking about the windows version. I am running it under win95 just to test the hardware. I know the setup screen where you can toggle the bits. I can turn on and off the two LEDs. The problem is I don't know if any of the other bits are working as they should. I guess what I am looking for is for instance, test pin X on the socket. When you activate bit X, pin X should be +5V. I hope that makes some sense. > You don't need the accuracy of 317s or 1% resistors, these voltages > aren't critical, but the measurements you gave almost sounds like the > meter is faulty. > > I mean a 7805 should give you an output of +/- 5%. In fact, i have found > 4.9 to 5.0 is general with the regs I get. I suppose I should have elaborated. The 7805 only put out 6.6 volts when the 7808 was also in the circuit. As soon as I pulled the 7808, the 7805 immediately dropped back to 5 volts. Both regulators check out separately. I will be posting more in a few minutes. I hope you can take the time to read it...Thank you. Thank you for all your help! Josh Koffman TakeThisOuTjoshyEraseMEspam_OUTmb.sympatico.ca

<x-flowed>At 11:26 PM 4/22/00 -0500, Josh Koffman wrote: >I suppose I should have elaborated. The 7805 only put out 6.6 volts when >the 7808 was also in the circuit. As soon as I pulled the 7808, the 7805 >immediately dropped back to 5 volts. Both regulators check out >separately. I have not seen your circuit, but I think I know what is going on. Tell me - do you have the GND lead of the 7808 connected to the +5V rail? If so, what you are seeing is the effect of the ground current of the 7808 raising the +5V supply. The cure is simple: add a 1K resistor from 5V to gnd. Your voltages should drop to their expected values. dwayne Dwayne Reid <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTplanet.eon.net> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 16 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2000) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. </x-flowed>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 12:13 PM 4/23/00 -0600, Dwayne Reid wrote: >At 11:26 PM 4/22/00 -0500, Josh Koffman wrote: >>I suppose I should have elaborated. The 7805 only put out 6.6 volts when >>the 7808 was also in the circuit. As soon as I pulled the 7808, the 7805 >>immediately dropped back to 5 volts. Both regulators check out >>separately. I have seen this in cases where a second supply (like your 8V supply) was feeding into the +5V through protection diodes on a chip.. - -- Are you an ISP? Tired of spam? http://www.spamwhack.com A pre-emptive strike against spam! Where's Dave? http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?kc6ete-9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBOQNZxIFlGDz1l6VWEQJQXwCgiTX1u9+Fw7SGqO6p9qtgAqNcuHcAn3yD 9CuyGsNc0c7A9OF8PllDxarg =wAvg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

This is a common mistake to not assembly the exact components from a design. For example, the LED (with a resistor) connected to the output voltage of power supply. Some people think it is a fancy non-sense hardware. They think it is not necessary and just don't assembly it. In some cases they are correct, but they need to check everything to see if removing that LED it will not change something. At the first sight it will not, but if that LED is the only existent "load" to the power supply output, it will make a difference not to install it. Some PIC programmers have LEDs for the 5V and 13.5V, in some cases not installing them can create the below effect of increasing +5V. Another common mistake is not installing the 0.1uF decoupling capacitors in a digital circuit. I already debugged a digital board with serious problems, it was missing all the 6 decoupling capacitors planned to be there. Wagner Dwayne Reid wrote: {Quote hidden}> > At 11:26 PM 4/22/00 -0500, Josh Koffman wrote: > >I suppose I should have elaborated. The 7805 only put out 6.6 volts when > >the 7808 was also in the circuit. As soon as I pulled the 7808, the 7805 > >immediately dropped back to 5 volts. Both regulators check out > >separately. > > I have not seen your circuit, but I think I know what is going on. Tell me > - do you have the GND lead of the 7808 connected to the +5V rail? If so, > what you are seeing is the effect of the ground current of the 7808 raising > the +5V supply. The cure is simple: add a 1K resistor from 5V to > gnd. Your voltages should drop to their expected values. > > dwayne > > Dwayne Reid <dwaynerEraseME.....planet.eon.net> > Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA > (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax > > Celebrating 16 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2000) > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. > This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited > commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.