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'Operating System used for PIC Programming'
1999\02\17@140024 by Peter Crowcroft

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In the current march 1999 issue of the australian electronics magazine,
Silicon Chip, is the statement "If you're still using Windows 3.11
(unlikely, if you're into programming PICs!)..... " (page 39.)


Now we recently had everyone telling the list their age.

I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
they used for programmming and code writing. (I read somewhere recently
that over 40% of computer systems in the USA still operated on W3.11). W98
gets all the publicity but I suspect that W95 and W3.11 still have a
'silent majority' following.

I think many readers of the list would be interested.


regards,  Peter

-------------------------------------------------
Peter J. Crowcroft     DIY ELECTRONICS (HK) Ltd
PO Box 88458,   Sham Shui Po,  Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255      Fax: 852-2725 0610
        Web: http://kitsrus.com
-------------------------------------------------

1999\02\17@140859 by Alvaro Deibe Diaz

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I began programming in DOS (PicStart), then W3.1, and W95 finally (PicStart
Plus).

regards, Alvaro.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Peter Crowcroft <spam_OUTpeterTakeThisOuTspamKITSRUS.COM>
Para: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Fecha: miŽrcoles, 17 de febrero de 1999 20:04
Asunto: Operating System used for PIC Programming


{Quote hidden}

1999\02\17@141311 by Wagner Lipnharski

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I will create a small form to be answered (4 click buttons) to collect this
statistics, at my web site,  and tell you guys later the results.

Wait until tonight, then access it at http://www.ustr.net/tellme.htm

Wagner.

Peter Crowcroft wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\02\17@141857 by mwestfal

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Peter Crowcroft wrote:
>
> I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
> they used for programmming and code writing.


In my cubicle here, I have 2 computers. Someone made a management decision
that all us engineers would use Windows NT Workstations. Bad choice for
engineering work, IMHO.

I had to request a second computer so I could do things like program
PICs, and run other things that dweebs like me connect to computer serial
and parallel ports.

The other computer is a 486-dx2 running windows 3.11
It works great!

NT sucks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike       N6KUY
.....mwestfalKILLspamspam.....odc.net
http://www.odc.net/~mwestfal/mike.html
Linux religious dogma: "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1999\02\17@142524 by Steven Kosmerchock

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Peter,
I use Win 3.11 at work (hard drive is partioned) and Win95 at home to program PI
Cs.
I would of course prefer to use NT.

Best regards,
Steven




Steven Kosmerchock
Engineering Technician/Student
CELWAVE
Phoenix   Arizona   USA
Email:  EraseMEsteve.kosmerchockspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcelwave.com
http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/lab/6584

1999\02\17@153422 by ryan pogge

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I have 3

one is an old Pentium 166 which I just use to program micros... it runs 95

the second is my Pentium 400 win 98 box with my beloved voodoo 2 cards
for games (Quake,Quake2,and Unreal mostly) :)

which brings up an interesting thought.... most of you PIC guys probably
dont play too many games do you?  or do you?

and the third is my dual 450 workstation which runs dual boot NT4,
and linux which I use  mostly for graphics  programs that use
multi threading such as 3ds MAX, Soft Image, PhotoShop, Maya,
Rhino etc.....


>Peter,
>I use Win 3.11 at work (hard drive is partioned) and Win95 at home to
program PICs.
{Quote hidden}

1999\02\17@154412 by Bob Blick

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6 computers linux only
2 dual boot win95/linux
3 win 95 only
1 win 3.11 only

I use a win95 computer for pic development. Ultraedit is my editor of
choice.

With all those computers I don't really like computers very much.

-Bob

1999\02\17@160910 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
OK, It's done, please don't answer to the list, it will
fill it crazy, just answer it at the form:

http://www.ustr.net/tellme.htm

Thanks. Wagner.

1999\02\17@161741 by Reginald Neale

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Peter asked:

>
>I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
>they used for programmming and code writing. (I read somewhere recently
>that over 40% of computer systems in the USA still operated on W3.11). W98
>gets all the publicity but I suspect that W95 and W3.11 still have a
>'silent majority' following.
>

 I'm a Mac person who started with PICs before there were useable
 Macintosh tools. After months of frustration with emulated DOS etc
 I gave up and bought a PC to use for programming. It runs WIN95
 on a 75 mHz Pentium. I have a Picstart Plus and use MPLAB.

 Reg Neale

1999\02\17@162912 by Quentin

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ryan pogge wrote:

> which brings up an interesting thought.... most of you PIC guys probably
>  dont play too many games do you?  or do you?
>
Games? Nah, games are for people who does not know how to code.

Yeah, right! Then why is my home/home office PC a 333a, 128M RAM,with
VoodooII with Win98? I fly sims (Falcon4, F15, TAW). I also do my
programming on it with MPLAB, in ASM.

My Office PC still runs on Win95. Never bothered to upgrade it as it is
still a 486 DX100 (was my home PC 3 generations ago). I don't use it for
programming because of to much noise there, but sometimes I wonder if
that is not the case when my wife is at home as well <duck>.
Office PC is also used for when I am testing prototypes (comms, etc.).
Ain't gonna put my new 333a in the line of fire for that, hehe.

Interesting, in school I was still dreaming about getting a ZX1.
Quentin

1999\02\17@164347 by Dave Johnson
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>I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
>they used for programmming and code writing.
Macintosh. I've never even launched MPLAB, and I hope I never have to. I
can run Windows on my Mac if I have to (and sometimes I do), but I try to
avoid it whenever possible :-)

Dave Johnson

1999\02\17@165827 by Graeme Smith

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GRAEME SMITH                         email: @spam@grysmithKILLspamspamfreenet.edmonton.ab.ca
YMCA Edmonton

Address has changed with little warning!
(I moved across the hall! :) )

Email will remain constant... at least for now.


> Peter Crowcroft wrote:
> >
> > In the current march 1999 issue of the australian electronics magazine,
> > Silicon Chip, is the statement "If you're still using Windows 3.11
> > (unlikely, if you're into programming PICs!)..... " (page 39.)
> >

Why Unlikely? What else is STABLE enough for a working machine?

Windows 9x has never impressed ME very much.

By the way, is there anybody out there supporting W3.11 like Caldera
supports drdos?

                               GREY

1999\02\17@165831 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
cisco is standardized on W95 or NT for workstation use (note that this is not
where SW development is done, generally - just web browsing, mail reading,
and X-window access to big unix.)  Before W95, intel platforms were
considered "unsuitable" and the standard was MacOS (and now, MACs are
de-supported.)

BillW

1999\02\17@170829 by Tony Nixon

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picon face
I use an old 486 clunker at home and used to use one here at work. Both
served my programming needs without any worries except for the odd
glitch - usually my own fault.

Work decided to upgrade to Win 95 and a new Pentium speed blaster. With
all the new bloatware it uses, I think the fan runs faster than the
computer, and it just seems to be a tin box full of problems.

I wonder if things are now advancing at such a rate that no one fully
understands how to get a PC to run reliably any more.

--
Best regards

Tony

Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.
** NEW PicNPro Programmer and Port Interface **

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email KILLspampicnpokeKILLspamspamcdi.com.au

1999\02\17@201839 by Mark Willis

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Tony Nixon wrote:
> <snipped>
> Work decided to upgrade to Win 95 and a new Pentium speed blaster. With
> all the new bloatware it uses, I think the fan runs faster than the
> computer, and it just seems to be a tin box full of problems.
>
> I wonder if things are now advancing at such a rate that no one fully
> understands how to get a PC to run reliably any more.
> <snipped>

 Not IMHO;  Methinks it's just that a simple act of Win95 exorcism,
followed by Dos 6.22 and WFW 3.11 installation, will cause your machine
to work rather better <G>

 Humor aside, it's not speed or complexity of the hardware - or
software - that's the problem - The problem's in poorly written
software, from my perspective (Compare a 486DX4/100 running Linux on
32Mb RAM, running NetScape - versus the same application on a P2-333
with 64 Mb RAM and tons more hard drive space <G>  Major efficiency
gains from better-written, better-debugged software...)

 I'll admit readily to being biased (I remember S-100 days all too
well, when ZCPR3 was king), AND, I know darn well that the problem
(IMHO) is that products are (still!) being rushed to market "in order to
beat the competition", not "Once they're Soup".  So the levels of
delivered BUGS (aka "misfeatures" or whatever this week's name is <G>)
is way way higher than it should be.  Evidence for my argument:  Dos 4.0
<EG>; Win 3.0;  Win98's initial release on most any laptop <EG>

 I've NEVER seen Win3.11 move which port a mouse "was on" driver to
fight with the modem driver or a sound card driver, over who has control
of the serial port or IRQ (Win95 does it apparently randomly, on some
machines.)  Don't tell me someone messed with the registry either (not
while I was watchin' <G>)  Not that WFW 3.11 is perfect (It gets major
fits when I attach my laptop to the LAN here & then detach it - it keeps
taking 20 seconds longer than average, as it looks for the laptop, "It
must be still here on the LAN someplace!" until it times out <Ack!>  And
I still like Dos best, so far (I'll love Linux, most likely, as I move
over there.)

 This is a major part of why I like working on avionic or other
"Zero-tolerance" type software where you actually test for bugs and
attempt to stamp 'em all out (And why I like the Open Source movement,
despite some concerns on how software contractors will survive if it
becomes the rule rather than the exception!)

 Now if we could get to where none of us ever had to re-design the
wheel from the ground up...

 (My machines range from tiny Siig 286's to 386 & 486 boxes, mostly Dos
machines, the LAN servers are WFW 3.11, some P5 workstations running WFW
3.11 usually, a Win95 workstation, and the PC110's and a couple laptops
- Only Dos is guaranteed to be on any machine at any given time, in fact
my fastest newest Pentium box doesn't have windows on it right now.)

 Mark

1999\02\17@203113 by Eric Oliver

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3 Computers

1 notebook WINNT4 Workstation
1 PC WinNT Workstation
1 PC Win95 I use this for uC development

Eric

1999\02\17@204821 by Andy Kunz

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>one is an old Pentium 166 which I just use to program micros... it runs 95

That's my main box :-(

>which brings up an interesting thought.... most of you PIC guys probably
> dont play too many games do you?  or do you?

I don't even have Solitaire on my boxes.  No games (although I used to play
Asteroids on my TRS-80).

I also have a 233 Dell using 95, and a Compaq Contura Aero 486/33 running
95, and a 166 laptop running (you guessed it) 95.

My brother's a Linux evangelist at Rutgers, though, so if I ever want else
I call him.  FWIW, my machines don't get reset very often, maybe once a
week if I feel like it, and never have a problem.

Andy


  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\02\17@210654 by Regulus Berdin

picon face
I use W95 on my workstation (Celeron 266) at work.
Our 2 servers are running on Linux (both are P200MMX).

At home, W95 on a 486DX2-100 and a Cyrix 300 dual boot with W98 and
Linux.

regards
Reggie

1999\02\18@044058 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,
agreed with this polling.
I use DOS (Caldera Open DOS 7.02) for development. (And Linux 2.0.33 for
the Internet).
Imre


On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Peter Crowcroft wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\02\18@050803 by Bob Drzyzgula

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On Thu, Feb 18, 1999 at 02:47:42AM +1100, Peter Crowcroft wrote:
>
> I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
> they used for programmming and code writing.

For this purpose, Win95 OSR 2.5. For other purposes,
Linux, Solaris, Windows NT, DR-DOS 7.03.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
RemoveMEbobTakeThisOuTspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\02\18@132132 by Arnold Grubbs

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At home I use as my main system a Pentium II - 233 with 192meg RAM and a
8.4 gig HD, with Win 95.

Also around the house are other systems that stuck around after I
'upgraded' ... they include

a Pentium 1 - 60 with 16M ram and a 1.2 gig and 540 meg HD running '95

2 NEC 486sx-25's with 4 or 12 meg RAM
I these a few months ago for $29 each from an electronics surplus house on
the web.  I thought
that I would use these on the work bench, to upgrade the old XT there now..
for use when I get time to dive into 'pic' ing

1 gateway 2k laptop 486dx2-50 with 20meg RAM and 330meg HD, Win 95
Used for data collection from the chronograph  and exterior ballistics
calculations when I am over at the rifle range.

a 386dx-40 with 4 meg RAM and 420meg HD, running win 3.11- for weather sat
image reception

and a 10mhz v-20 based XT system with a 30meg HD in it.  it runs dos 3.31.
It is on the work bench in the basement,
until I  get time to take one of the NEC's down there and get it set up for
the work bench.
Maybe a computer collector would be interested in it... ha!


At work, ( I don't work with PIC's, sad to say)   I have 4 of HP Pentium II
- 200's and a AMD486-100
in my "main" area on the plant floor.  We use w 3.11 on the AMD system and
w95 on 2 of the maintenance
computer systems. One of the units runs NT4.0.   I use these to maintain
and program Allen Bradley PLC-5's, SLC-500's, micrologics-5550 and
Modicon 984's and 484 PLC systems.  Most of these systems have several  (up
to 8) servo drives that are also
intelligent  "box's"  that need programming and tweaking from time to time.

There are also a couple of Pentium II -350 systems that run NT-4.0 that are
used as hosts for a Cognix Checkpoint vision processor
that is used for 100% inspection and orientation of input parts to a couple
of the production machines.

We have a bunch of 80196 based 'in house' developed control systems.
I hope that after I get 'my feet wet' with PIC's I'll be able to use some
of these for embedded systems in the plant.
I have several projects that I would like to use PIC's in  at work.. I just
need to get time to learn more about them..

This is why I have been 'lurking' on this list, trying to decide what to do
for software and programming hardware...
When things slow down here in a month or so (couple of big projects going
on at work)  I'll be able to get started...
For the mean time I am 'lurking and learning'  on the LIST.

Have a good day!        AG





- Arnie Grubbs - KA0NCR
spamBeGone-agrubsspamBeGonespamteknetwork.com

1999\02\18@155947 by Sam Powell

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1) Dual PII 400 - main development
W98
2) Psion 5          - Coding/Sketching 'on the road'                  Epoc32
3)Mac SE/30    - Coding when I particularly hate 98            MacOS 7.5.5
4)DX/4 100       - As above
Linux (SuSe 5.2)

ICQ: 23977120
E-Mail: TakeThisOuTspwebEraseMEspamspam_OUTglobalnet.co.uk

1999\02\18@161444 by Fansler, David

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Work - a slew of PII servers running NT4 Server
       A PII 233 running NT4 Workstation on the desk
       An IBM 380 Thinkpad w/win95 - good for pic while away from the
office/home

Home -  PII 266 running Win98 - main development computer
       P200MMX running BeOS - for a really different OS and to learn C++ on

David V. Fansler
Network Administrator
AutoCyte, Inc.
800-426-2176 Ext. 261
RemoveMEdfanslerspamTakeThisOuTautocyte.com <dfanslerEraseMEspam.....autocyte.com>
Now Showing! http://www.mindspring.com/~dfansler
Opinions Expressed Within Are Mine And May Not Reflect Those Of My Employer

1999\02\18@162104 by marcel

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Mac Pic perfect software for pic supports warp and picstart and other
programmers with very nice emulator.
I use my NT machine as a proxy server between my mac and cable modem and have
Electronic Work Bench
on the NT server Electronic design software is very expensive for the Mac.
I am using Wingate as a proxy server now tried Win proxy but trial period is
over supports Real audio/video
win gate not  any suggestion's on this offtopic.

Marcel
EraseMEM.v.d.Biltspamfibre.A2000.nl

Reginald Neale wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\02\18@224638 by James Cameron

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Peter Crowcroft wrote:
> I would be more interested if people could report what operating
> system they used for programmming and code writing.

Linux.

Editor is xemacs <http://www.xemacs.org/>, with colour highlighting of
the code, one-keystroke assembly and burn, dependency tracking, error
highlighting (click to find the source in error), and built in mailer.

Source configuration control with CVS <http://www.cyclic.com/>, which
although I use extensively for open source software projects I also use
for keeping a development history of my PIC code.

Assembler is gpasm <http://reality.sgi.com/jamesb/gpasm/> a blindingly
fast assembler compared to mpasm, and comes with full source code.

Simulator is gpsim <interstice.com/~sdattalo/gnupic/gpsim.html>,
though I have only used it a few times.

Programmer is picprg2.2 <www.tatoosh.com/nexus/picpgmr.shtml>,
which works out of the box on 16F84's and required a bit of
reprogramming for 12C509-JW's.

Serial emulator is ckermit <http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/>, which lets
me stuff around with all sorts of baud rates and script some very
strange exchanges between a PIC and the PC.

Documentation control with Netscape Communicator's Composer
<http://www.netscape.com/>, so that projects have their own web page on
my local system with pointers to source code and final pictures from a
digital camera.

--
James Cameron                                      (RemoveMEcameronEraseMEspamEraseMEstl.dec.com)

OpenVMS, Linux, Firewalls, Software Engineering, CGI, HTTP, X, C, FORTH,
COBOL, BASIC, DCL, csh, bash, ksh, sh, Electronics, Microcontrollers,
Disability Engineering, Netrek, Bicycles, Pedant, Farming, Home Control,
Remote Area Power, Greek Scholar, Tenor Vocalist, Church Sound, Husband.

"Specialisation is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein.

1999\02\19@095316 by Lou Calkins

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On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Peter Crowcroft wrote:
> I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
> they used for programmming and code writing.

All of my code writing is done with the Brief editor running under the MKS
Toolkit Korn shell which runs in a window on Win98.  This machine is a
Micron Millennia 450.  For assembly and debug I use MPLAB 4.0.  MPLAB runs
just fine as long as I use firmware v1.50.00 for the PICSTART.  My old
machine which works fine for MPLAB runs Win 3.11.

I am looking for a new editor that can handle the longer file names (any
suggestions?  I have heard about Crisp which they say can emulate Brief).
I also am getting real interested in Linux.  I have another machine (486-66
16M RAM) and I wonder if Linux would run on that.  Boy, if most of my
programs would run on Linux, Microsoft would be in REAL trouble with me.

> gets all the publicity but I suspect that W95 and W3.11 still have a
> 'silent majority' following.

The reason there is still that base out there is because a lot of us folks
who need to get something done with our computers do not want to spend time
and grief putting up with new bugs and odd features of a new OS.  We like
stability!  I always dread the thought of loading a new OS just to see what
doesn't work the same any more.

1999\02\19@115423 by Kelly J. Kohls

picon face
Greetings All!

>I would be more interested if people could report what operating system
>they used for programmming and code writing. (I read somewhere

I am presently using Windows 3.11 for my PIC programming.

Kelly J. Kohls, N5TLE
Email: RemoveMEkkohlsspam_OUTspamKILLspamjuno.com  or  RemoveMEn5tleTakeThisOuTspamspamqsl.net
Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/n5tle/

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1999\02\20@093928 by leo.perretti

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On 18 Feb 1999 Marcel wrote:

>Mac Pic perfect software for pic supports warp and picstart and other
>programmers with very nice emulator.
>I use my NT machine as a proxy server between my mac and cable modem
and have
>Electronic Work Bench
>on the NT server Electronic design software is very expensive for the
Mac.
>I am using Wingate as a proxy server now tried Win proxy but trial
period is
>over supports Real audio/video
>win gate not  any suggestion's on this offtopic.

There is no need to use a proxy server to connect a Macintosh with a Pic
programmer. I use MacPic with Picstart Plus, and I connect them by an
old modem cable having a Mini Din connector at one edge, and a 25 pin D
connector at the other edge, with a 25 to 9 pin adaptor connected to the
Picstart Plus; all works fine.
MacPIC is a very fine system, the sole which allows Mac users to use
Pics without dealing with M$ stuff, or emulators. Kevin Coble, who cares
its development, recently announced he will issue the first non-beta
release in the next future; he is also very quick in fixing errors
reported by users, so at present the product is rather stable. I use it
to program 17C44.
As to the operating system, I use the 68k version of MacPIC with a
Powerbook 190, OS 7.5, and the PowerPc version with a PowerMac G3, OS
8.5. Both work fine.

Regards
Leonardo Perretti

EraseMEleo.perrettispamspamspamBeGoneprojectpp.it

1999\02\20@191734 by Andy Kunz

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face
>I am looking for a new editor that can handle the longer file names (any
>suggestions?  I have heard about Crisp which they say can emulate Brief).

Programmers File Editor (PFE) http://www/lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe to
download it.

Andy

  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\02\20@203208 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Sat, Feb 20, 1999 at 07:14:46PM -0500, Andy Kunz wrote:
> >I am looking for a new editor that can handle the longer file names (any
> >suggestions?  I have heard about Crisp which they say can emulate Brief).
>
> Programmers File Editor (PFE) http://www/lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe to
> download it.

Also, NoteTab. http://www.notetab.com. Lite version is
free, Pro version is awesome.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
RemoveMEbobKILLspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

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