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PICList Thread
'OTP erase'
1997\08\14@030453 by David BALDWIN

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Hello everybody,

       I am going to try if OTP parts can be erased with radiations or X rays.
Does someone already tried this?

David

1997\08\14@031324 by Andrew Warren

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David BALDWIN <David BALDWIN <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>> wrote:

> I am going to try if OTP parts can be erased with radiations or X
> rays. Does someone already tried this?

David:

Yes, someone has.  Contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't work.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

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1997\08\14@044055 by Antti Lukats

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At 12:10 AM 14/8/97 -0800, you wrote:
>David BALDWIN <David BALDWIN <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>> wrote:
>
>> I am going to try if OTP parts can be erased with radiations or X
>> rays. Does someone already tried this?
>
>David:
>
>Yes, someone has.  Contrary to popular opinion, it doesn't work.

maybe not for PIC's but for most OTP memory it *does* work.

It takes a lotsa X-ray: a machine used for that purposes is left
working for 30..90 minutes at maximum power with the emitter head
few millimeters from the chip bodies.

The guy who has this machinery in his cellar said that all OTP
EPROM's have been erased. time*energy depends on manufacturer.
Also some Intel micros have been erased. He has not tried PIC's.

I would *not* advise to do such experiments in rural areas.

antti






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1997\08\14@083441 by Andy Kunz

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>I would *not* advise to do such experiments in rural areas.

Why not in rural areas?  Nobody around to see you glow... <G>

Has anybody tried nuclear sources, though?  I mean, this part of the
country is known for uranium and radium deposits, so  ...

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\08\14@084237 by nvdw
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Antti Lukats wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Anybody tried Microwave ovens ??? ;-)

Nic

1997\08\14@084242 by tjaart

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> >I would *not* advise to do such experiments in rural areas.
>
> Why not in rural areas?  Nobody around to see you glow... <G>
>
> Has anybody tried nuclear sources, though?  I mean, this part of the
> country is known for uranium and radium deposits, so  ...

Why not just turn them around and use the other side...(Just like
a vinyl LP record)

--
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1997\08\14@090323 by Andrew Warren

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Nic van der Walt <Nic van der Walt <@spam@nvdwKILLspamspamwasp.co.za>> wrote:

> Anybody tried Microwave ovens [for erasing OTP PICs]???

   Uh, no.

   You also can't erase PICs by putting them in a magnetic field,
   accelerating them to significant fractions of the speed of
   light, playing loud music at them, holding them under water,
   shaking them vigorously, or tapping on them with small hammers.

   Surprising, huh?

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

=== For PICLIST help (including "unsubscribe" instructions),
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=== send it to: RemoveMElistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

1997\08\14@093732 by Martin R. Green

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I have read that some people have had success erasing OTP devices with very
high (industrial) levels of x-rays.  Medical x-ray machines are designed
for minimum exposure, so they would not work (or would take a year to erase
a device), but one of the machines that, for instance, checks pipeline
welds for defects might do the trick.  Of course, the radiation might fry
the logic circuits, but at least your device would be erased ;-)


CIAO - Martin R. Green
spamBeGoneelimarspamBeGonespambigfoot.com

----------
From:   Andy Kunz[SMTP:TakeThisOuTmontanaEraseMEspamspam_OUTFAST.NET]
Sent:   Thursday, August 14, 1997 8:31 AM
To:     RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Re: OTP erase

>I would *not* advise to do such experiments in rural areas.

Why not in rural areas?  Nobody around to see you glow... <G>

Has anybody tried nuclear sources, though?  I mean, this part of the
country is known for uranium and radium deposits, so  ...

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\08\14@112221 by Antti Lukats

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>Has anybody tried nuclear sources, though?  I mean, this part of the
>country is known for uranium and radium deposits, so  ...

Yes experiments are made. most chips were fried before erase.

One 8751 style thing survived the erasure with some minor trouble
in logic circuitry.

antti

No Limits                                 Go To
Basics of AVR                              AVR
AVRBASIC         http://www.avrbasic.com          Born for Basic

Grand opening in August.
Watch out for first week offers.

1997\08\14@114914 by Norm Cramer

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At 08:31 AM 8/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I would *not* advise to do such experiments in rural areas.
>
>Why not in rural areas?  Nobody around to see you glow... <G>
>
>Has anybody tried nuclear sources, though?  I mean, this part of the
>country is known for uranium and radium deposits, so  ...
>

Probably can't get the flux levels you would need.  Maybe you could dig
some up, mail (UPS is on strike) it to Savanna River SC and let them enrich
it for you :-)  Seriously though, the levels needed would require shielding
and control of the dose of radiation that you got.

An iteresting study would be to see what different sources of radiation
could cause the best erase.  I would guess that a source that gave off
gamma's at about the same energy level as the UV light would work fine.
Wonder what kind of shielding the package adds?

Probably the best method would to be to etch a hole in the package and use
a light.

Norm

1997\08\14@195032 by Eric Smith

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Andrew Warren <fastfwdEraseMEspam.....IX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
> You also can't erase PICs by putting them in a magnetic field,
> accelerating them to significant fractions of the speed of
> light, playing loud music at them, holding them under water,
> shaking them vigorously, or tapping on them with small hammers.

However, *sufficient* application of any of these methods will render it
impossible to determine whether the PIC is erased or not.

1997\08\14@195852 by Andrew Warren

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Eric Smith <EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> > You also can't erase PICs by putting them in a magnetic field,
> > accelerating them to significant fractions of the speed of
> > light, playing loud music at them, holding them under water,
> > shaking them vigorously, or tapping on them with small hammers.
>
> However, *sufficient* application of any of these methods will
> render it impossible to determine whether the PIC is erased or not.

   Yeah... And the really neat thing is that you achieve the same
   result whether you apply those methods to the PIC or to the guy
   trying to erase it.

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdEraseMEspamEraseMEix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

=== For PICLIST help (including "unsubscribe" instructions),
=== put the single word "help" in the body of a message and
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1997\08\15@020729 by nigelg

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In message  <RemoveME199708141303.IAA04879TakeThisOuTspamspamdfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>> EraseMEPICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
> Nic van der Walt <Nic van der Walt <RemoveMEnvdwKILLspamspamwasp.co.za>> wrote:
>
> > Anybody tried Microwave ovens [for erasing OTP PICs]???
>
>     Uh, no.
>
>     You also can't erase PICs by putting them in a magnetic field,
>     accelerating them to significant fractions of the speed of
>     light, playing loud music at them, holding them under water,
>     shaking them vigorously, or tapping on them with small hammers.

How about LARGE! hammers :-).

Nigel.

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1997\08\16@050616 by Ian Raymond Douglas

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For anyone thats interested, my mother-in-law will breathe on any otp's
you want erased for a small fee. We don't call her dragon's breath for
nothing!  8-)

On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Andrew Warren wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\08\17@011522 by David Duffy

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>For anyone thats interested, my mother-in-law will breathe on any otp's
>you want erased for a small fee. We don't call her dragon's breath for
>nothing!  8-)

Don't you mean the laser beam eyes that can kill a son-in-law at 10 paces ?
Every married man on the PicList will know what I mean !   :-)

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