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'OT: Re: EMI'
1998\09\10@111202 by miked

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>   Let me guess. It was an American.  They have done that in Canada as well.
> Some of those air
> search radars are quite powerful not to mention dangerous. I have heard
> rumours of cooking birds
> in flight at 500 yards. Think what that might do to your body.

A guy I went to school with from the Airforce told of being able to set
a cardboard
box on fire by setting it in front of a fighter's nose radar.

1998\09\11@095024 by miked

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> That's what I call "Burn-through" :)
> I passed my ham "tech" licence about 10 years ago, 50 questions, and I'm
> allowed to use up to 1500W on 144, 22, 440, 902, 1296, 2405, .... 10G and on
> up.  Basically, I can take the door off a BIG microwave oven and feed it
> into a dish.. There's actually a way to modulate video into a microwave oven
> klystron.
>
> since I do have a grain of common sense, I've stayed below 100mW on the
> microwave bands.
>
Bob Blick had a project on his page using a microwave oven as a CW
transmitter. He removed it
as being too dangerous.

1998\09\11@102516 by David VanHorn

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>> since I do have a grain of common sense, I've stayed below 100mW on the
>> microwave bands.
>>
>Bob Blick had a project on his page using a microwave oven as a CW
>transmitter. He removed it as being too dangerous.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.  IMHO, the tech licence ought to be
limited to maybe 250W VHF and UHF, and maybe 10W higher. That covers 99% of
what people do, and avoids a lot of problem potential. I've never heard of
anyone frying themselves or someone else with a ham microwave project, and I
don't want to either.

A kW on HF is one thing, the hazards are mainly limited to direct exposure
to the antenna voltage nodes. A kW at 2 GHz can bounce around, and easily be
pencil-beamed for long distances.

1998\09\11@121132 by Keith H

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David VanHorn wrote:

> I've never heard of anyone frying themselves or someone else
> with a ham microwave project, and I don't want to either.

Fried ham? Only if oil/butter/fat is involved.
Otherwise its boiled or baked ham.
You may flame/grill/toast me for this cheesy joke.

1998\09\11@141800 by Mark Willis

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Keith H wrote:
>
> David VanHorn wrote:
>
> > I've never heard of anyone frying themselves or someone else
> > with a ham microwave project, and I don't want to either.
>
> Fried ham? Only if oil/butter/fat is involved.
> Otherwise its boiled or baked ham.
> You may flame/grill/toast me for this cheesy joke.

 Last time I walked by an Indoor Suntanning place, it smelled sort of
like butter, seriously.

 Just don't aim that thing at me...

1998\09\11@170827 by Sean Breheny

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Well, I don't think that most techs are going to know how to generate a kW
of power at 2 GHz, unless they do something stupid like take apart a
microwave oven. Also, if I remember correctly from my Tech test, there are
questions in the pool about microwave safety (i.e., don't look into a
waveguide, don't operate more than 1 W or so around people, and don't do
anything with lots of power unless you know what you are doing). If you are
dense enough to look past these suggestions, then you are probably going to
get yourself killed somehow anyway.

In addition, in my experiance, even most Extra class hams know little about
microwaves. So, unless you are arguing that no hams be allowed >10W above
450 MHz, then I must disagree.

Sean


At 09:14 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

+--------------------------------+
| Sean Breheny                   |
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM |
| Electrical Engineering Student |
+--------------------------------+
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
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1998\09\11@185404 by David VanHorn

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>Well, I don't think that most techs are going to know how to generate a kW
>of power at 2 GHz, unless they do something stupid like take apart a
>microwave oven.

There's about one in every house..

>Also, if I remember correctly from my Tech test, there are
>questions in the pool about microwave safety (i.e., don't look into a
>waveguide, don't operate more than 1 W or so around people, and don't do
>anything with lots of power unless you know what you are doing). If you are
>dense enough to look past these suggestions, then you are probably going to
>get yourself killed somehow anyway.


True, but the tech exam really dosen't require enough tech, imho, to be
messing about with the power levels that you're authorized to use.  I'm one
myself, and although I'd be affected by it too, I'd be willing to compromise
in the interests of safety.  I can't imagine that it would affect my
operations much or at all, and I don't know many that would.

>In addition, in my experiance, even most Extra class hams know little about
microwaves.

Well... I'd say it's a lot more likely that they have an appreciation for
the hazards involved, and how to safely work with high power.

>So, unless you are arguing that no hams be allowed >10W above 450 MHz, then
I must disagree.


I don't see a need to extend the restriction to all hams based on the idea
that some might not be able to handle it.
I think it's reasonable to assume that someone who passed the general etc
exams is more likely to be able to use that kind of power safely.

Again, I'm casting myself out with the bathwater, When I passed my tech, I
kept going in the theory till I flunked.. I flunked extra by 1 point, no
studying.  So, I'm one of the exceptions to the idea that the tech class
probably dosen't have enough theory/experience to handle what they've been
granted.

1998\09\12@093753 by paulb

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David VanHorn wrote:

>>In addition, in my experiance, even most Extra class hams know little
>> about microwaves.
> Well... I'd say it's a lot more likely that they have an appreciation
> for the hazards involved, and how to safely work with high power.

> I think it's reasonable to assume that someone who passed the general
> etc exams is more likely to be able to use that kind of power safely.

 An interesting observation.  *Here,* the Limited (="Tech") exam is the
same as the Full one, the only addition being Morse.  You will no doubt
be aware of the "old boys" behaviour of the Full calls who swear blind
that they are the only "true" amateurs and that no-one without
demonstrated Morse proficiency must *ever* be permitted to use the
sacred HF bands.

 The fact of the matter is that the Limited operators have always been
demonstrably more technically proficient and competent *as a group*.
Under these circumstances, any purported link between Morse proficiency
and competence to engineer high-power microwave equipment truly beggars
the imagination!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\09\12@124127 by David VanHorn

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>David VanHorn wrote:
>
>>>In addition, in my experiance, even most Extra class hams know little
>>> about microwaves.
>> Well... I'd say it's a lot more likely that they have an appreciation
>> for the hazards involved, and how to safely work with high power.
>
>> I think it's reasonable to assume that someone who passed the general
>> etc exams is more likely to be able to use that kind of power safely.
>
>  An interesting observation.  *Here,* the Limited (="Tech") exam is the
>same as the Full one, the only addition being Morse.  You will no doubt
>be aware of the "old boys" behaviour of the Full calls who swear blind
>that they are the only "true" amateurs and that no-one without
>demonstrated Morse proficiency must *ever* be permitted to use the
>sacred HF bands.


I was using the old classifications, sorry, Tech-Plus then.

>  The fact of the matter is that the Limited operators have always been
>demonstrably more technically proficient and competent *as a group*.
>Under these circumstances, any purported link between Morse proficiency
>and competence to engineer high-power microwave equipment truly beggars
>the imagination!


Oh I do not for one shake consider there to be any such link. I was
referring to the more thorough General, Advanced, and Extra theory exams.

1998\09\13@101643 by paulb

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David VanHorn wrote:

> Oh I do not for one shake consider there to be any such link. I was
> referring to the more thorough General, Advanced, and Extra theory
> exams.

 I'm not really aware of the structure; just musing on *ours*.  It's
simple and comfortable; and i'm sure fully detailed on the ARRL site.

 And I'm really *not* going to perpertrate/ perpetuate an [OT] slanging
match on morse!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

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