Post by thread:OT: Network hardware questions

Hi John! If there are only two computers on your network you need no hubs at all. Just use a cross-wired patch cord to connect NICs. NIC full-duplex (if any) option will work also. Cross-wired connection: 10 MHz 100 MHz 1 ------- 3 1------- 3 2 -------- 6 2------- 6 3 -------- 1 3--------1 4--------4 5--------5 6 --------- 2 6------- 2 7------- 7 8--------8 Best regards Gregory V.Oleynikov john pearson wrote: > I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together. > I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a 10Mhz > hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer and an > occasional file. > If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I be able to use any brand hub or > will I have to use the same brand as the nics. > Any good books for beginners, or web sites? > Thanks > John

> I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together. I just did this in this fashion: I bought two identical ethernet cards, had my office Network Guru make me a cable (the one that looks like a phone plug that I don't know the name of) that has a crossover (ala an old null modem cable) and plug it into a WIN 95 machine. a few curses later, I had a network! You don't need a hub to connect two machines. With thin ethernet cable you would need cable, two tees, and two 75 ohm (I think?) terminations. > I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a > 10Mhz hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer > and an occasional file. If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I > be able to use any brand hub or will I have to use the same brand as > the nics. Any good books for beginners, or web sites? Thanks John -- Lawrence Lile => Median Filter Source Code => AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting => Brownout tester plans => Amateurish pictures of my family at: http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

The coax style ethernet termnators should be 50 ohms. Although you may get away with the 75 ohm variety for a couple machines, the 50 ohm terminatorscan be acquired easily as they're only as far away as your local Radio Shack. Definitely get identical ethernet cards-- you'll save a ton of time when you install and configure them into your machines. If you use coax to connect your machines, you don't need any crossover cable. With Win95/8, you can use the windows networking stuff, with the NETbui protocol. It allows you to share printers, files, etc. Priority: normal Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:51:04 +0000 Reply-to: spam_OUTlilelTakeThisOuTtoastmaster.com From: Lawrence Lile <.....lilelKILLspam@spam@TOASTMASTER.COM> Organization: toastmaster Subject: Re: OT: Network hardware questions To: PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU > I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together. I just did this in this fashion: I bought two identical ethernet cards, had my office Network Guru make me a cable (the one that looks like a phone plug that I don't know the name of) that has a crossover (ala an old null modem cable) and plug it into a WIN 95 machine. a few curses later, I had a network! You don't need a hub to connect two machines. With thin ethernet cable you would need cable, two tees, and two 75 ohm (I think?) terminations. > I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a > 10Mhz hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer > and an occasional file. If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I > be able to use any brand hub or will I have to use the same brand as > the nics. Any good books for beginners, or web sites? Thanks John -- Lawrence Lile => Median Filter Source Code => AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting => Brownout tester plans => Amateurish pictures of my family at: http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? regards, Wouter ---------- > From: Gregory Oleynikov <.....GregOlKILLspam.....SOFT-WEST.RU> > To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: OT: Network hardware questions > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 13:43 > > Hi John! > If there are only two computers on your network you need no hubs at all. > Just use a cross-wired patch cord to connect NICs. NIC full-duplex (if any) {Quote hidden}> option will work also. > > Cross-wired connection: > > 10 MHz 100 MHz > 1 ------- 3 1------- 3 > 2 -------- 6 2------- 6 > 3 -------- 1 3--------1 > 4--------4 > 5--------5 > 6 --------- 2 6------- 2 > 7------- 7 > 8--------8 > > > Best regards > Gregory V.Oleynikov > > john pearson wrote: > > > I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together. > > I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a 10Mhz > > hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer and an > > occasional file. > > If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I be able to use any brand hub or > > will I have to use the same brand as the nics. > > Any good books for beginners, or web sites? > > Thanks > > John

> > At 09:17 PM 1/14/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever > >connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? > > AUI port. > > You guys should ALL download a copy of "The Hardware Book" > from the net. > It's a collection of all kinds of cables, interfaces, > pinouts, etc. that > are handy. I keep a shortcut on my desktop so I can grab it any time. Could you attach the shortcut to an email? or is it a short cut to the file on your machine? {Quote hidden}> > Sorry, no URL but Yahoo or similar should find it. > > Andy > > > > \-----------------/ > \ /---\ / > \ | | / Andy Kunz > \ /---\ / Montana Design > /---------+ +---------\ http://www.montanadesign.com > | / |----|___|----| \ | > \/___| * |___\/ Go fast, turn right, > and keep the wet side down! >

Kevin Fisk wrote: {Quote hidden}> > > > > At 09:17 PM 1/14/99 +0100, you wrote: > > >Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever > > >connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? > > > > AUI port. > > > > You guys should ALL download a copy of "The Hardware Book" > > from the net. > > It's a collection of all kinds of cables, interfaces, > > pinouts, etc. that > > are handy. I keep a shortcut on my desktop so I can grab it any time. > > Could you attach the shortcut to an email? or is it a short cut to the file > on your machine? > > > > > Sorry, no URL but Yahoo or similar should find it. > > > > Andy I had a link from my web page until early last year. The owner of the 'Hardware Book' was killed in a motorcycle accident. His page went down a few days later. It was one of the best sites on the net. -- Friendly Regards /"\ \ / Tjaart van der Walt X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN tjaartspam_OUTwasp.co.za / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL |--------------------------------------------------| | WASP International | |R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development| |--------------------------------------------------| | Mobile : @spam@tjaartKILLspamsms.wasp.co.za (160 text chars) | | http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html | |Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686 Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973| | WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E | |--------------------------------------------------|

Wanted to give a quick answer: AUI cables resemble "yellow garden hose", I'd use 10BaseT or 10Base2 before that stuff. It's thick, heavy, and a pain. I have a 10Base2 LAN here, works fine, with 2 8-port hubs for visitors. The handiest thing I've found for 10Base2 is the "F" style connector for plugging into your net card ("NIC"), instead of a "T" type: The Stem of the "F" goes into the NIC, the RG-58 50-ohm cables then both come in / leave from the same direction. The reason this is handy is that you no longer have to block something else with coax on both sides (i.e. you cannot plug in a printer without an extra hand to hold the LAN cable out of your way.) All Electronics IIRC has these for $1.25 or $1 in quantity, I'm considering getting about 20 and getting rid of my "T" connectors <G> It is easier to upgrade 10BaseT installations to 100BaseT, admittedly - (If you're renting and need to run 10 computers' Cat 5 cables hung from the side of the hallway to a big hub, imagine the look on the landlord's face.) When I first got into networking machines, 100BaseT wasn't dreamed of yet, having a mix can work really well; Printing is plenty fast here (I put a buffer on the old dot matrix printers to speed up the print server, the laser doesn't need it.) I agree fully that identical NICs is a good idea (Get spares if you can, not that they go bad, but so visiting machines or new machines can drop on the LAN quickly.) If I were starting new, I'd go with 100BaseT if affordable, or 10BaseT if not, so you can re-use cabling ($10 for NICs for 10BaseT isn't bad.) Mark wouter van ooijen / floortje hanneman wrote: > > Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever > connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? > > regards, > Wouter > > <snipped>

There are a few mirror sites that still have the Hardware Book online; I've just now verified them so you should have no problems getting there: http://hwb.acc.umu.se/index.html http://www.dataplus.se/hwb/ http://www.sonic.net/~alanwall/hwb/hwb.html Good luck! The Hardware Book is definitely a useful resource; I'm sorry to hear about the owner, but I'm glad his work has not disappeared. Phil Tjaart van der Walt wrote: {Quote hidden}> > Kevin Fisk wrote: > > > > > > > > At 09:17 PM 1/14/99 +0100, you wrote: > > > >Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever > > > >connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? > > > > > > AUI port. > > > > > > You guys should ALL download a copy of "The Hardware Book" > > > from the net. > > > It's a collection of all kinds of cables, interfaces, > > > pinouts, etc. that > > > are handy. I keep a shortcut on my desktop so I can grab it any time. > > > > Could you attach the shortcut to an email? or is it a short cut to the file > > on your machine? > > > > > > > > Sorry, no URL but Yahoo or similar should find it. > > > > > > Andy > > I had a link from my web page until early last year. The > owner of the 'Hardware Book' was killed in a motorcycle > accident. His page went down a few days later. It was one > of the best sites on the net. > -- Philip Restuccia Senior Principal Software Engineer Periphonics Corporation KILLspamphilip.restucciaKILLspamperi.com

There are AUI (15 pin tranceiver interface) equivilents of a 10baseT hub, usually with some sort of upstream tap (In my office lab, I have a little box with 4 AUI "DCE" ports and a 10baseT output.) This eliminates the requirement for a tranceiver per port plus big yellow coax plus 2.5m required separation. As far as I know, there is no AUI equivilent of the 10baseT "crossover" cable that allows two systems to be connected with "just a cable." Given current ecconomics, it is probably cheaper to buy AUI 10baseT Transceivers and the crossover cable (or hub.) The AUI interface has become so uncommon that equipment that specifically deals with it has not come down in price as much as the 10baseT stuff. (OTOH, this also means that "data centers" all over are tearing out their old AUI-based stuff and putting in 10baseT instead. You may be able to find USED AUI concentrators and cables and such for very cheap indeed (well, I have a big box of it.) If it's free, it might even be worth dealing with the heavy cables and unreliable connectors :-)) BillW cisco

>> Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever >> connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)? If I recall correctly, the AUI (attachment unit interface) spec uses 4 pairs. They are power out (AUI to transceiver), data out (to transceiver), data in (from transceiver), and collision detect (from transceiver). You _might_ be able to make a null-modem AUI to AUI cable using just the data-in and data-out pairs on both ends. Lack of collision detect could be a problem. But in a setup with only 2 machines, the collision rate might be low enough that the upper level network protocols could cope with it. Much easier to put an AUI to 10baseT transceiver on each NIC and run a cross-over UTP cable between them. > Wanted to give a quick answer: AUI cables resemble "yellow > garden hose", I'd use 10BaseT or 10Base2 before that stuff. Technically, the AUI cable is a (usually 4 pair) cable with a DB15 male connector on one end and a DB15 female connector on the other end. It hooks the AUI port on the NIC to a 10base5 (aka thick Ethernet) transceiver. It can be up to 40 meters. It is also known as a transceiver cable or drop cable. A 10base5 (Thick Ethernet) coax cable was usually orange (I also worked with blue). It's about 1/2" outside diameter, rigid, and has a black mark every 2.5 meters. You were only supposed to place a tap at a marked location. (It makes reasonable antenna cable for use up to ~900 MHz.) Tapping into the cable was fun. It was a vampire tap. There was a special tool [I think I could find mine if I looked]. It had a stepped drill bit. You twisted it against the coax cable and it cut away the outer insulation, the braided shield, and the center dielectric. The transceiver's tap assembly then clamped around the coax. A pin went through the hole you just drilled and poked into the ~0.08" (~2mm) diameter solid copper center conductor. Other pins(?) made contact with the shield. Exciting part was ensuring that you didn't short the center pin to the grounded shield braid (which could take down the entire network). > It's thick, heavy, and a pain. 10base5 (Thick Ethernet) coax cable is all of those things. > I have a 10Base2 LAN here, works fine, with 2 8-port hubs for > visitors. The handiest thing I've found for 10Base2 is the "F" > style connector for plugging into your net card ("NIC"), instead > of a "T" type: > The Stem of the "F" goes into the NIC, the RG-58 50-ohm cables then > both come in / leave from the same direction. The ultimate Thinwire Ethernet system was probably made by DEC (Digital Equipment Corp). Wallplate had 2 female BNCs on it. You hooked the Thinwire coax to the back of the wallplate like a you would to a T connector. When nothing was plugged into the wallplate's socket, it passed the signal straight through. There was a drop cable that went to the NIC. One end had a BNC connector in the middle of a doubled-over piece of small diameter 50-ohm coax. The other end had a 1/2" thick by 1" by 1" connector. Coax went from the wall connector to the BNC and back to the wall connector. An outside jacket kept the overall diameter to about the same size as a piece of RG58 coax. Very neat on the NIC end. When you plugged the wall connector into the wallplate, the mechanism broke the internal signal path, routed the Ethernet signal out the coax to the BNC (i.e. NIC), and back in on the other coax. It was Thinwire that was as easy to use as 10baseT. Just quite a bit harder to install. You basically built a distributed hub into your office walls -- one wallplate at a time. > I agree fully that identical NICs is a good idea I tend to buy ones from "name" manufacturers that have decent web sites and continue to provide drivers as time passes. I've found that a NIC is more likely to be removed from service due to lack of a current driver than due to hardware failure. Lee Jones

Shawn Call wrote: > With Win95/8, you can use the windows networking stuff, with the > NETbui protocol. It allows you to share printers, files, etc. You can even use WIN95 *without* NetBeui, just using Internet-standard TCP/IP which seems eminently sensible to me to simplify matters since I use an internet gateway (Linux). The only disadvantage I have noted is that the timeouts are a bit long, so it takes the W95 "Client" a fair while to decide what machines are *not* presently connected when you perform a network DIR call. To run TCP/IP you have to allocate IP addresses to each machine from the LAN address range 192.168.x.x , and list all machines in a file in the Windows directory called LMHOSTS (no extension). e.g. #------- File: LMHOSTS -------- 192.168.1.101 BOBS 192.168.1.102 CAROLS 192.168.1.103 TEDS 192.168.1.110 ALICES 192.168.1.111 BACKROOM #-------- etc. EOF ------------ The names are what you called the machines in the "Identification" tab in Network setup, and the "Workgroup" must be common to all machines, but these are much the same requirements for NetBeui. Win95 does NOT seem to be case-sensitive regarding these names. YMMV. Easy! Pity this information does not come (in usable form) with W95! -- Cheers, Paul B.