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'OT: Network hardware questions'
1999\01\13@195531 by john pearson

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I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together.
I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a 10Mhz
hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer and an
occasional file.
If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I be able to use any brand hub or
will I have to use the same brand as the nics.
Any good books for beginners, or web sites?
Thanks
John

1999\01\14@074638 by Gregory Oleynikov

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Hi John!
   If there are only two computers on your network you  need no hubs at all.
Just use a cross-wired patch cord to connect NICs. NIC full-duplex (if any)
option will work also.

Cross-wired connection:

       10 MHz            100 MHz
   1 -------    3        1------- 3
   2 --------   6        2------- 6
   3 --------   1        3--------1
                               4--------4
                               5--------5
   6 ---------  2        6------- 2
                                7------- 7
                                8--------8


Best regards
   Gregory  V.Oleynikov

john pearson wrote:

> I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together.
> I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a 10Mhz
> hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer and an
> occasional file.
> If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I be able to use any brand hub or
> will I have to use the same brand as the nics.
> Any good books for beginners, or web sites?
> Thanks
> John

1999\01\14@095331 by lilel

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> I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together.

I just did this in this fashion:

I bought two identical ethernet cards, had my office Network Guru
make me a cable (the one that looks like a phone plug that I don't
know the name of) that has a crossover (ala an old null modem cable)
and plug it into a WIN 95 machine.  a few curses later, I had a
network!  You don't need a hub to connect two machines.

With thin ethernet cable you would need cable, two tees, and two
75 ohm (I think?) terminations.



> I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a
> 10Mhz hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer
> and an occasional file. If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I
> be able to use any brand hub or will I have to use the same brand as
> the nics. Any good books for beginners, or web sites? Thanks John
-- Lawrence Lile

=> Median Filter Source Code
=> AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting
=> Brownout tester plans
=> Amateurish pictures of my family

at:  http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

1999\01\14@140254 by calls

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The coax style ethernet termnators should be 50 ohms.  Although you
may get away with the 75 ohm variety for a couple machines, the 50
ohm terminatorscan be acquired easily as they're  only as far
away as your local Radio Shack.  Definitely get identical ethernet
cards-- you'll save a ton of time when you install and configure them
into your machines.  If you use coax to connect your machines, you
don't need any crossover cable.
    With Win95/8, you can use the windows networking stuff, with the
NETbui protocol.  It allows you to share printers, files, etc.

Priority:      normal
Date:          Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:51:04 +0000
Reply-to:      spam_OUTlilelTakeThisOuTspamtoastmaster.com
From:          Lawrence Lile <.....lilelKILLspamspam@spam@TOASTMASTER.COM>
Organization:  toastmaster
Subject:       Re: OT: Network hardware questions
To:            PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

> I am new to networking. I want to connect my two computers together.

I just did this in this fashion:

I bought two identical ethernet cards, had my office Network Guru
make me a cable (the one that looks like a phone plug that I don't
know the name of) that has a crossover (ala an old null modem cable)
and plug it into a WIN 95 machine.  a few curses later, I had a
network!  You don't need a hub to connect two machines.

With thin ethernet cable you would need cable, two tees, and two
75 ohm (I think?) terminations.



> I am looking at a Eithernet starter kit with two 10/100 nics and a
> 10Mhz hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer
> and an occasional file. If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I
> be able to use any brand hub or will I have to use the same brand as
> the nics. Any good books for beginners, or web sites? Thanks John
-- Lawrence Lile

=> Median Filter Source Code
=> AutoCad blocks for electrical drafting
=> Brownout tester plans
=> Amateurish pictures of my family

at:  http://home1.gte.net/llile/index.htm

1999\01\14@152323 by uter van ooijen / floortje hanneman
picon face
Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever
connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)?

regards,
Wouter

----------
> From: Gregory Oleynikov <.....GregOlKILLspamspam.....SOFT-WEST.RU>
> To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: OT: Network hardware questions
> Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 13:43
>
> Hi John!
>     If there are only two computers on your network you  need no hubs at
all.
> Just use a cross-wired patch cord to connect NICs. NIC full-duplex (if
any)
{Quote hidden}

10Mhz
> > hub. Will I really miss 100Mhz. I only want to share a printer and an
> > occasional file.
> > If I want to upgrade to a 100Mhz hub, will I be able to use any brand
hub or
> > will I have to use the same brand as the nics.
> > Any good books for beginners, or web sites?
> > Thanks
> > John

1999\01\14@170940 by Andy Kunz

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At 09:17 PM 1/14/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever
>connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)?

AUI port.

You guys should ALL download a copy of "The Hardware Book" from the net.
It's a collection of all kinds of cables, interfaces, pinouts, etc. that
are handy.  I keep a shortcut on my desktop so I can grab it any time.

Sorry, no URL but Yahoo or similar should find it.

Andy



  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\01\14@173829 by kfisk

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>
> At 09:17 PM 1/14/99 +0100, you wrote:
> >Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever
> >connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)?
>
> AUI port.
>
> You guys should ALL download a copy of "The Hardware Book"
> from the net.
> It's a collection of all kinds of cables, interfaces,
> pinouts, etc. that
> are handy.  I keep a shortcut on my desktop so I can grab it any time.

Could you attach the shortcut to an email? or is it a short cut to the file
on your machine?

{Quote hidden}

1999\01\14@232737 by Tjaart van der Walt

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Kevin Fisk wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I had a link from my web page until early last year. The
owner of the 'Hardware Book' was killed in a motorcycle
accident. His page went down a few days later. It was one
of the best sites on the net.

--
Friendly Regards          /"\
                         \ /
Tjaart van der Walt        X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
tjaartspamspam_OUTwasp.co.za  / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
|--------------------------------------------------|
|                WASP International                |
|R&D Engineer : GSM peripheral services development|
|--------------------------------------------------|
| Mobile : @spam@tjaartKILLspamspamsms.wasp.co.za  (160 text chars) |
|     http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html     |
|Voice: +27-(0)11-622-8686  Fax: +27-(0)11-622-8973|
|          WGS-84 : 26¡10.52'S 28¡06.19'E          |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\01\15@082742 by Mark Willis

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Wanted to give a quick answer:  AUI cables resemble "yellow garden
hose", I'd use 10BaseT or 10Base2 before that stuff.  It's thick, heavy,
and a pain.

 I have a 10Base2 LAN here, works fine, with 2 8-port hubs for
visitors.  The handiest thing I've found for 10Base2 is the "F" style
connector for plugging into your net card ("NIC"), instead of a "T"
type:

 The Stem of the "F" goes into the NIC, the RG-58 50-ohm cables then
both come in / leave from the same direction.

 The reason this is handy is that you no longer have to block something
else with coax on both sides (i.e. you cannot plug in a printer without
an extra hand to hold the LAN cable out of your way.)  All Electronics
IIRC has these for $1.25 or $1 in quantity, I'm considering getting
about 20 and getting rid of my "T" connectors <G>

 It is easier to upgrade 10BaseT installations to 100BaseT, admittedly
- (If you're renting and need to run 10 computers' Cat 5 cables hung
from the side of the hallway to a big hub, imagine the look on the
landlord's face.)  When I first got into networking machines, 100BaseT
wasn't dreamed of yet, having a mix can work really well;  Printing is
plenty fast here (I put a buffer on the old dot matrix printers to speed
up the print server, the laser doesn't need it.)

 I agree fully that identical NICs is a good idea (Get spares if you
can, not that they go bad, but so visiting machines or new machines can
drop on the LAN quickly.)

 If I were starting new, I'd go with 100BaseT if affordable, or 10BaseT
if not, so you can re-use cabling ($10 for NICs for 10BaseT isn't bad.)

 Mark

wouter van ooijen / floortje hanneman wrote:
>
> Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever
> connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)?
>
> regards,
> Wouter
>
> <snipped>

1999\01\15@092720 by Philip Restuccia

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There are a few mirror sites that still have the Hardware Book online;
I've just now verified them so you should have no problems getting
there:

http://hwb.acc.umu.se/index.html
http://www.dataplus.se/hwb/
http://www.sonic.net/~alanwall/hwb/hwb.html

Good luck!  The Hardware Book is definitely a useful resource; I'm sorry
to hear about the owner, but I'm glad his work has not disappeared.

       Phil

Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Philip Restuccia
Senior Principal Software Engineer
Periphonics Corporation
KILLspamphilip.restucciaKILLspamspamperi.com

1999\01\15@095654 by Sten Dahlgren

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Philip Restuccia wrote:
>
> There are a few mirror sites that still have the Hardware Book online;
> I've just now verified them so you should have no problems getting
> there:
>
> http://hwb.acc.umu.se/index.html
> http://www.dataplus.se/hwb/
> http://www.sonic.net/~alanwall/hwb/hwb.html
>

Those sites above is from 97 and mid98.
Check this site for a continuing work on hwb.

http://ftp.sunet.se/hwb

ftp.sunet.se is a big ftp site in sweden, there may be other things to
get
there to :-)

regards
/Sten
--
Sten Dahlgren  ! I'd rather have 39 hp under my right arm than
Enea Data AB   ! one horse under my bottom !
Box 232        !
183 23 TŠby    !
Sweden         !
+46 8 6385038  !
RemoveMEstdaTakeThisOuTspamenea.se   !

1999\01\15@151425 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
There are AUI (15 pin tranceiver interface) equivilents of a 10baseT hub,
usually with some sort of upstream tap (In my office lab, I have a little
box with 4 AUI "DCE" ports and a 10baseT output.)  This eliminates the
requirement for a tranceiver per port plus big yellow coax plus 2.5m required
separation.  As far as I know, there is no AUI equivilent of the 10baseT
"crossover" cable that allows two systems to be connected with "just a
cable."

Given current ecconomics, it is probably cheaper to buy AUI 10baseT
Transceivers and the crossover cable (or hub.)  The AUI interface has
become so uncommon that equipment that specifically deals with it has
not come down in price as much as the 10baseT stuff.  (OTOH, this also
means that "data centers" all over are tearing out their old AUI-based
stuff and putting in 10baseT instead.  You may be able to find USED
AUI concentrators and cables and such for very cheap indeed (well, I
have a big box of it.)  If it's free, it might even be worth dealing
with the heavy cables and unreliable connectors :-))

BillW
cisco

1999\01\15@161557 by paulb

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William Chops Westfield wrote:

> As far as I know, there is no AUI equivilent of the 10baseT
> "crossover" cable that allows two systems to be connected with "just a
> cable."

 The AUI connection contains power lines (to power the interface) and
*three* control pairs; two in one direction and one in the other.  It's
a bit difficult to reconcile these with just a cable!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\16@051343 by Lee Jones

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>> Is there an equivalent "0-modem" possibility for transciever
>> connections (those D15 connectors with the shifting locks)?

If I recall correctly, the AUI (attachment unit interface)
spec uses 4 pairs.  They are power out (AUI to transceiver),
data out (to transceiver), data in (from transceiver), and
collision detect (from transceiver).

You _might_ be able to make a null-modem AUI to AUI cable
using just the data-in and data-out pairs on both ends.
Lack of collision detect could be a problem.  But in a setup
with only 2 machines, the collision rate might be low enough
that the upper level network protocols could cope with it.

Much easier to put an AUI to 10baseT transceiver on each
NIC and run a cross-over UTP cable between them.


> Wanted to give a quick answer:  AUI cables resemble "yellow
> garden hose", I'd use 10BaseT or 10Base2 before that stuff.

Technically, the AUI cable is a (usually 4 pair) cable with a
DB15 male connector on one end and a DB15 female connector on
the other end.  It hooks the AUI port on the NIC to a 10base5
(aka thick Ethernet) transceiver.  It can be up to 40 meters.
It is also known as a transceiver cable or drop cable.

A 10base5 (Thick Ethernet) coax cable was usually orange (I
also worked with blue).  It's about 1/2" outside diameter,
rigid, and has a black mark every 2.5 meters.  You were only
supposed to place a tap at a marked location.

(It makes reasonable antenna cable for use up to ~900 MHz.)

Tapping into the cable was fun.  It was a vampire tap.  There
was a special tool [I think I could find mine if I looked].
It had a stepped drill bit.  You twisted it against the coax
cable and it cut away the outer insulation, the braided shield,
and the center dielectric.

The transceiver's tap assembly then clamped around the coax.
A pin went through the hole you just drilled and poked into the
~0.08" (~2mm) diameter solid copper center conductor.  Other
pins(?) made contact with the shield.  Exciting part was ensuring
that you didn't short the center pin to the grounded shield braid
(which could take down the entire network).


> It's thick, heavy, and a pain.

10base5 (Thick Ethernet) coax cable is all of those things.


> I have a 10Base2 LAN here, works fine, with 2 8-port hubs for
> visitors.  The handiest thing I've found for 10Base2 is the "F"
> style connector for plugging into your net card ("NIC"), instead
> of a "T" type:

> The Stem of the "F" goes into the NIC, the RG-58 50-ohm cables then
> both come in / leave from the same direction.

The ultimate Thinwire Ethernet system was probably made by DEC
(Digital Equipment Corp).  Wallplate had 2 female BNCs on it.
You hooked the Thinwire coax to the back of the wallplate like
a you would to a T connector.  When nothing was plugged into the
wallplate's socket, it passed the signal straight through.

There was a drop cable that went to the NIC.  One end had a BNC
connector in the middle of a doubled-over piece of small diameter
50-ohm coax.  The other end had a 1/2" thick by 1" by 1" connector.

Coax went from the wall connector to the BNC and back to the wall
connector.  An outside jacket kept the overall diameter to about
the same size as a piece of RG58 coax.  Very neat on the NIC end.

When you plugged the wall connector into the wallplate, the
mechanism broke the internal signal path, routed the Ethernet
signal out the coax to the BNC (i.e. NIC), and back in on the
other coax.  It was Thinwire that was as easy to use as 10baseT.
Just quite a bit harder to install.

You basically built a distributed hub into your office walls --
one wallplate at a time.


> I agree fully that identical NICs is a good idea

I tend to buy ones from "name" manufacturers that have decent
web sites and continue to provide drivers as time passes.  I've
found that a NIC is more likely to be removed from service due
to lack of a current driver than due to hardware failure.

                                               Lee Jones

1999\01\17@051258 by paulb

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Shawn Call wrote:

>      With Win95/8, you can use the windows networking stuff, with the
> NETbui protocol.  It allows you to share printers, files, etc.

 You can even use WIN95 *without* NetBeui, just using Internet-standard
TCP/IP which seems eminently sensible to me to simplify matters since I
use an internet gateway (Linux).

 The only disadvantage I have noted is that the timeouts are a bit
long, so it takes the W95 "Client" a fair while to decide what machines
are *not* presently connected when you perform a network DIR call.

 To run TCP/IP you have to allocate IP addresses to each machine from
the LAN address range 192.168.x.x , and list all machines in a file in
the Windows directory called LMHOSTS (no extension).  e.g.
#------- File: LMHOSTS --------
192.168.1.101   BOBS
192.168.1.102   CAROLS
192.168.1.103   TEDS
192.168.1.110   ALICES
192.168.1.111   BACKROOM
#-------- etc. EOF ------------
 The names are what you called the machines in the "Identification" tab
in Network setup, and the "Workgroup" must be common to all machines,
but these are much the same requirements for NetBeui.

 Win95 does NOT seem to be case-sensitive regarding these names.  YMMV.

 Easy!  Pity this information does not come (in usable form) with W95!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

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