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'New to surface mount PICs, need to select a progra'
2009\06\14@181613 by Jason Hsu

picon face
I'm part of the Data Acquisition Prototype group within Project Phoenix
(open source blood pressure monitor):
http://www.phoenix.tc-ieee.org/023_Data_Acquisition_Prototype/Data_Acquisition_Prototype.htm

We'll be using PIC microcontrollers.  I have experience using PIC
microcontrollers, but only through-hole versions, which I program using a
PICSTART Plus.

We MUST use surface-mount components, as this is necessary to make the
wearable blood pressure monitor as unobtrusive as possible.  The challenge:
I have NO experience with programming surface mount PICs - all my experience
so far has been through hole.

I need your help figuring out what surface-mount programmer we should get.
>From what I have heard, surface mount requires ICP (in circuit programming)
and involves connecting the PIC circuit directly to the programmer instead
of moving the PIC back and forth between the programmer and the circuit.

My questions:
1.  For those of you who made the switch from through-hole PICs to
surface-mount PICs, what other new twists did you have to learn?
2.  What do I need to know about the various programmers (ICD modules,
emulator POD series, etc.)?  I don't even know what questions to ask about
these.
3.  Just how tiny is the connector that allows you to connect the PIC
circuit to the programmer?
4.  What else should I know?  I don't even know where to begin.

--
Jason Hsu
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt-c.txt
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt-asm.txt

2009\06\14@183329 by solarwind

picon face
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Jason Hsu<spam_OUTjhsu802701TakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I would just make a PCB with a pin header and connect it to the PICKIT2.

2009\06\14@193014 by peter green

flavicon
face

> I need your help figuring out what surface-mount programmer we should get.
> >From what I have heard, surface mount requires ICP (in circuit programming)
> and involves connecting the PIC circuit directly to the programmer instead
> of moving the PIC back and forth between the programmer and the circuit.
>  
Pretty much yes, you can get programmers with ZIF sockets for SMT chips
that can be used to program them before soldering them in but they tend
to be expensive and finiky.

Personally I use in circuit programming all the time even if the chip is
DIL (which it usually is in my case), it's much more conviniant and the
ability to debug with an ICD2 is also sometimes useful.

> 3.  Just how tiny is the connector that allows you to connect the PIC
> circuit to the programmer?
>  
You need five lines (VDD,GND, PGC,PGD and VPP) between the programmer
and target circuit, what connector you use to carry them to the target
is up to you.
> 4.  What else should I know?  I don't even know where to begin.
>  
take a look at http://www.embedinc.com/picprg/icsp.htm

2009\06\14@224537 by Funny NYPD

picon face
Try use the reference design (PCB decal) on this tutorial with pogo-pin cables:
http://augroups.blogspot.com/2009/01/cbl-0703-pogo.html

Actually have 5 or 6 ICSP pads (6 pads is recommended for fault-tolerance) on the PCB will make life a lot easier on upgrading your firmware. It really doesn't matter the PIC is SMD or through-hole package.

Using PIC bootloader is another approach, especially when opening the product enclosure is not pleasant. These are a few references (Serial bootloader and CAN bus bootloader, one for PIC18 and one for dsPIC30F):
http://augroups.blogspot.com/2009/06/au-pic18f-serial-bootloader-user-manual.html

http://augroups.blogspot.com/2009/02/table-of-content-1-introduction-1.html

As of Programmer and fixture, you can refer to our BB0703 and 3-in-1 mini-lab:
www.auelectronics.com/System-PICkit2.htm
http://www.auelectronics.com/Hardware-MiniLab.htm


Please keep us posted on your project, sounds very interesting.

We handle/design with SMD components all the time, I am sure you will see SMD is much easier than through-hole components very soon.

Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com




________________________________
From: Jason Hsu <.....jhsu802701KILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>
To: piclistspamKILLspammit.edu
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:16:11 PM
Subject: New to surface mount PICs, need to select a programmer

I'm part of the Data Acquisition Prototype group within Project Phoenix
(open source blood pressure monitor):
http://www.phoenix.tc-ieee.org/023_Data_Acquisition_Prototype/Data_Acquisition_Prototype.htm

We'll be using PIC microcontrollers.  I have experience using PIC
microcontrollers, but only through-hole versions, which I program using a
PICSTART Plus.

We MUST use surface-mount components, as this is necessary to make the
wearable blood pressure monitor as unobtrusive as possible.  The challenge:
I have NO experience with programming surface mount PICs - all my experience
so far has been through hole.

I need your help figuring out what surface-mount programmer we should get.
>From what I have heard, surface mount requires ICP (in circuit programming)
and involves connecting the PIC circuit directly to the programmer instead
of moving the PIC back and forth between the programmer and the circuit.

My questions:
1.  For those of you who made the switch from through-hole PICs to
surface-mount PICs, what other new twists did you have to learn?
2.  What do I need to know about the various programmers (ICD modules,
emulator POD series, etc.)?  I don't even know what questions to ask about
these.
3.  Just how tiny is the connector that allows you to connect the PIC
circuit to the programmer?
4.  What else should I know?  I don't even know where to begin.

--
Jason Hsu
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt.html
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt-c.txt
http://www.jasonhsu.com/swrwatt-asm.txt

2009\06\14@234759 by Jason Hsu

picon face
I see on Wikipedia that there are three methods of debugging: software
emulation, in-circuit debugging, and in-circuit emulation.  Software
emulation is what I have done in the past with through hole PICs and the
PICSTART Plus.  From the Wikipedia description, it sounds like in-circuit
emulation would be the most suitable of these three options.

What do you think?  Is there any good reason I should consider in-circuit
debugging instead of in-circuit emulation?

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