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'New to PIC'
1996\12\12@104414 by B. Davies

picon face
Hi everyone,  I am new to microcontrollers and PICs.   My question is does
anyone have any strong recommendations regarding which programmer a newcomer
should buy?   I have looked at The Digikey catalog and the JDR catalog and I
am considering buying a programmer from one of these three companies;
Parallax
Microchip
Micro Engineering

Any info would be appreciated
Thanks                                                       B P Davies

1996\12\12@111148 by Customized Controller Solutions

flavicon
face
Hello,

I've been very happy with the BASIC compilier by Micro Engineering.
I'm fairly new to PICs myself.  The nice thing about it is that it
allows you to make calls to your ASM routines from within the basic
program.  This is refered to as 'Inline Assembly'.  It also makes
it nice to be able to open up the ASM file for the purpose of studying
how your BASIC code is converted and the proper ASM syntax for the PIC.
The PIC ASM code is a lot different than the 8051 ASM code.  Studying
the output(while you have your manual in hand) allows you to get a better
understanding of the code.  Unless you have some complicated programming
issues to deal with, or have a need for great speed, use the basic for
most of your code.  Then you can ease into the Assembly Language.

I have not run into any speed problems with the Micro Engineering
BASIC compilier, but as I say I'm fairly new the to PICs and have not
done a lot with them yet.

That's my three cents.  It was two cents... but that's inflation.

Brent Pollock
Customized Controller Solutions
spam_OUTccsTakeThisOuTspamewol.com

Embedded Control. Digital and Analog Electronics and Communications.
Process Control, Windows interfaces to embedded products
(Visual Basic 4.0 Pro)...on and on...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------ End of reply.  Quoted text follows --------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:43 AM 12/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}


'New to PIC'
1997\05\07@192251 by Andres Araneo
picon face
I am new with PICs and don't know much about electronics, however I have
no problems in understanding ASM languages. I have the programmer, the
16C84 and a 16C74 (still looking for that #%H:\pic\pic archive 2 UV lamp). Can anyone tell
me where cn I find the basic connections to make it work or some sort of
explanation. I found a plot to test the 16C84 to make it blink one led
(with some effort i made it blink eight!). But I don't quite understand
what are these capacitors etc.. for. Any comments appreciated.


'New to PIC'
1997\09\03@194054 by Cliff Rogers
flavicon
face
G'day all,

I'm a computer technician in Cairns, Queensland, Australia.
I trained as a radio tech in the RAAF and then as a Computer Tech Also in the
RAAF.
I am interested in computer control systems. I worked for Honey in the
Industrial Service Division for 4 years so I have a working
knowledge of Process Control.
I am currently working on project that use the parallel printer port of a pc for
control.
I would like to learn about the world of PIC. I have more than 20 years
experience with electronics and 18 years experience with
computers. I have found a few FAQs on the net but they only seem to cover a bit
of history.
1: Where do I start?
2: What do I need?
3: Is there a better, easier, cheaper PIC?

That will do for now, Thanks,

Cliff Rogers.    .....absoluteKILLspamspam@spam@tpgi.com.au

1997\09\03@211301 by Greg Newberry

picon face
Cliff,

I'm in there with you. I've been 'lurking' in the background of this
list gathering information. I've been in the computer industry for about
17 years and an ham radio operator for about 21 years. Love to tinker
and I really need a good winter learning project.

I've been collecting software and internet web page address to look at.
It does seem that the 16F84 is a favorite starting chip. But as to
software or programmers I am really lost. If you find some stuff let me
know. I've found a few good web sites and I'll send you some to look at.

http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/pic/
digiserve.com/takdesign/pic-faq/faqindex.html
digiserve.com/takdesign/pic-faq/links.html
http://www.microchip2.com/mplab.htm
www.lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaame/pic/pic.htm
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/piclinks.html
http://www.melabs.com/mel/home.htm
http://www.isc-durant.com/nolan/article.htm
http://www.htsoft.com/pic/
http://www.isc-durant.com/nolan/article.htm

Hope these help. You may have already been there but have fun

Greg

--
-------------------------------------------------
|  Greg Newberry    newberryspamKILLspamcyberhighway.net   |
|  WB7DUO QRP-L #760                            |
|  NorCal #1899  CQC #465  AR-QRP #65           |
-------------------------------------------------

1997\09\04@003144 by Cliff Rogers

flavicon
face
G'day, I found this one on the net here in Oz. I haven't found anyone who has
tried it yet to get their comments.

http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck/pickaxe.html

It's a kit with software.

Cliff.


----------
{Quote hidden}

1997\09\04@055913 by obo (Ingenieria Fotonica)

flavicon
face
Hello,
I've start with this web page:
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/
Microchip has  a lot of information and a free assembler and simulator, in
               http://www.microchip.com

Then you need a PIC part (the 16F84 is great and cheap) and a programmer,
I've build the LUDIPIPO programmer, very cheap and reliable.

good luck,
 Adolfo.

At 09:25 4/09/97 +1000, you wrote:
>G'day all,
>
>I'm a computer technician in Cairns, Queensland, Australia.
>I trained as a radio tech in the RAAF and then as a Computer Tech Also in the
> RAAF.
>I am interested in computer control systems. I worked for Honey in the
> Industrial Service Division for 4 years so I have a working
>knowledge of Process Control.
>I am currently working on project that use the parallel printer port of a
pc for
> control.
>I would like to learn about the world of PIC. I have more than 20 years
> experience with electronics and 18 years experience with
>computers. I have found a few FAQs on the net but they only seem to cover
a bit
> of history.
>1: Where do I start?
>2: What do I need?
>3: Is there a better, easier, cheaper PIC?
>
>That will do for now, Thanks,
>

1997\09\04@085137 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Cliff Rogers wrote:
>
> G'day, I found this one on the net here in Oz. I haven't found anyone
> who has
>  tried it yet to get their comments.
>
> http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck/pickaxe.html

Nuh! I think it's a bit of a dud! ;-)

You could try:
http://www.dontronics.com/pickaxe.html

You will also find free Windows and DOS software and full schematics to
do
in-circuit programming with the PIC16C84 and PIC16F84.

It uses a 4PDT switch to do a program then run cycle. The target chip
stays in the target board, so that code changes can be done in a few
seconds.

1 or 2 people on this list use it now I believe.

Don McKenzie  donspamspam_OUTdontronics.com   http://www.dontronics.com

SimmStick(tm) Atmel & PIC proto PCB's. 30 pin Simm Module Format.
SLI, the serial LCD that auto detects baud rates from 100 to 125K bps.
Send a blank message to @spam@infoKILLspamspamdontronics.com for more details.

1997\09\04@190012 by Cliff Rogers

flavicon
face
G'day, thanks for that, Cliff.

----------
> From: Adolfo Cobo (Ingenieria Fotonica)

>  .. start with this web page:
>  www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/
>  Microchip has  a lot of information and a free assembler and simulator, in
>  http://www.microchip.com
>
>  Then you need a PIC part (the 16F84 is great and cheap) and a programmer,
>  I've build the LUDIPIPO programmer, very cheap and reliable.

1997\09\04@190019 by Cliff Rogers

flavicon
face
G'day all, has any one other than Don got a comment on his Pickaxe? :-)

> http://www.dontronics.com/pickaxe.html
>
> >  I haven't found anyone who has tried it yet to get their comments.
> >
>
> 1 or 2 people on this list use it now I believe.
>

Thanks Cliff.

1997\09\05@141930 by lilel

flavicon
face
;               life.asm



; ;       TITLE  'ACCELERATED LIFE TEST FOR RELAYS
; *******************************************************************"
; ;;     REVISION HISTORY"
; ;;
; ;;    1    1-21-97  LAWRENCE LILE   CREATED FROM IRON2.V54

; *******************************************************************"
;
;   CLOCK:
;  INTERNAL 4MHZ OSCILLATOR
;
;
;   I/O:
;   GP0 =
;   GP1 =
;   GP2 =
;   GP5 =  Relay
;   GP4 =  led


       CBLOCK          0X08
       ACCaLO
       ACCaHI
       ACCbLO
       ACCbHI
       ACCCLO
       ACCCHI
       ACCDLO
       ACCDHI
       ACCELO
       ACCEHI
       OVERFLOW

       LOLIMIT
       HILIMIT

       TEMP
       TEMP1
       FLAGS

       SETPOINT

       ENDC

       #DEFINE LED             4

       #DEFINE RELAY           5





STATUS  equ     0x03            ;Status Register
CARRY   equ     0               ;Carry bit
Z_bit   equ     2               ; ZERO BIT




       LIST    p=12C508   ; PIC12C508 is the target processor

; Load definitions of registers
      INCLUDE <P12C508.INC>

; long pages  999 LINES
      LIST     N=999
; WIDE PAGES 200 COLUMNS
      LIST     C=200

; BLOW CONFIGURATION FUSES

      __CONFIG _CP_OFF & _WDT_ON & _INTRC_OSC & _MCLRE_ON

       ORG 0
       MOVWF   OSCCAL  ; STORE OSCILLATOR CALIBRATION WORD
       GOTO MAIN

;*************************************************************************
;
;               MACROS
;*************************************************************************

       ORG 2



;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;               BOOTROUTINE  sets up ports, variables, etc.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

BOOTROUTINE     MACRO
       MOVLW   B'00001110'
       TRIS GPIO





       ENDM    ; END BOOTROUTINE

WAITASEC        ; SUBROUTINE
       CLRF ACCALO

WAITLOOP
       CLRWDT
       INCFSZ  ACCALO, F
       GOTO WAITLOOP
       INCFSZ  ACCAHI, F
       GOTO WAITLOOP
       RETLW 0





;*****************************************************************************
;       MAIN ROUTINE
;
;*****************************************************************************



MAIN


       BOOTROUTINE

       BCF GPIO, RELAY
       BCF GPIO, LED

       CALL WAITASEC
       BSF     GPIO, RELAY
       BSF     GPIO, LED
       CALL WAITASEC



GOTO MAIN




;       FILL REST OF MEMORY WITH GOTO START COMMAND
       FILL  (GOTO MAIN), (0X1FD - $)







       END


;****************************************************************

1997\09\05@141935 by lilel

flavicon
face
Greg enlightened us all with,...

>. It does seem that the 16F84 is a favorite starting chip. But as
> to software or programmers I am really lost. If you find some stuff
> let me know.


I'm training a technician in basic PIC (not PICBasic) right now.
Here's the steps we're going to take:

Get a David Tait 16c84 programmer (very cheap) or talk your MCHIP rep
into getting a good price on an old PICstart 1b (semi obsolete).
Later, get a good programmer.  Later yet, get an emulator.

Get MPLAB for free from MCHIP
Get databooks on the processor you will use.


Try to write a piece of code that will blink an LED.  It won't run or
compile at all the first time you wrote it, unless you are Bill
Gates or are very lucky.

Ask dumb questions here and with your MCHIP rep until it runs.

Build it.

Then make it do more.   make the LED time out accurately.  add a
peizo speaker or a relay.  Make it read a key.  etc. etc.

Attached is an example of such a file that I use to life test relays.
It is the simplest functioning program I have, and is a useful
learning tool.  It is written for the 12C508, but would work on the
16C84 with some modifications.  Pick over it, and ask me how it
works.


Best Regards,

Lawrence Lile


'New to PIC'
2003\01\10@211916 by Jeff Lawver
picon face
Hello everyone,


       I'm new to PIC, and pretty new to anything related to it. I'm pretty good
in C/C++ and know a bit of assembly for x86. I have a few PICs coming
[PIC16F84A-04/P] and some 12x's that I'm not going to use since they have
EPROM. but I would like to know how to go about starting with the PIC. I
want to eventually get into robotics with the PIC but I'm satisfied with
whatever projects I can get done. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--Jeff

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2003\01\10@224342 by Josh Koffman
flavicon
face
Check out http://www.piclist.com . While you are there, check out the
list FAQ, as you seem to have missed out on the proper use of topic tags
for your post. There are a number of beginner's projects that might be
applicable. In addition, it's a wonderful resource when you get stuck.
You will need a programmer though, which can be close to a religious
debate on the list. Best bet is to read through the list of programmers
on the piclist.com website. You will also need MPLAB, the development
environment available from Microchip's website,
http://www.microchip.com. A good idea would be to download the
datasheets for the chips you have chosen and read them. Read (or at
least skim) the whole thing, it really does explain quite a bit. And
since someone else will doubtless mention this, I might as well. You may
wish to start with some different chips. In the 16F series, the 16f628
is a great replacement for the 16f84, it has more features and costs
less. The 16f877 is a great 40 pin device. You may wish to look at the
18f series though. General consensus seems to be this is where most PICs
are heading, with some of the data and program memory paging issues
fixed. However, the smallest ones available now start at 28 pins. In
addition, you will have to carefully choose a programmer, and there is
less sample code available for the 18F series.

Hope this helps,
Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

Jeff Lawver wrote:
> I'm new to PIC, and pretty new to anything related to it. I'm pretty good
> in C/C++ and know a bit of assembly for x86. I have a few PICs coming
> [PIC16F84A-04/P] and some 12x's that I'm not going to use since they have
> EPROM. but I would like to know how to go about starting with the PIC. I
> want to eventually get into robotics with the PIC but I'm satisfied with
> whatever projects I can get done. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--
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2003\01\11@080242 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> but I would like to know how to go about starting with
> the PIC.

Read http://www.voti.nl/swp

Ditch the 16F84's and go for 12F629/675, 16F630/676, 16F628, 16F877, or
18Fxxx.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu>

2003\01\13@094919 by llile

flavicon
face
Welcome, Jeff!

Many others will give good suggestions, and cruising around the
piclist.com site, and the sites it links to like Myke Predko's site
http://www.myke.com will certainly fill your brain up fast.

But here is how I would start.  Your first project should be the LED
BLINKY MERIT BADGE.  This apparently useless project can find some
application if you want to make a statement, such as putting a blinking
LED on your name badge at an electronics conference.

It works like this.  Take any PIC, doesn't matter which one, the '84 is
fine.  Program it in assembly language to blink an LED on and off 1X per
second.  Why use assembly?  1.  It is free.  2. You have to know some
assembler to program PICs in C efficiently.  3. It is fairly
straightforward to do.

Eventually you will probably use C for all your PIC projects, but learn
the assembler anyway.

The circuit diagram is trivial and it sounds like you already know enough
to hook it up.  You'll have to get some kind of proggrammer.  If your
budget is limited search around for David Tait programmers, Noppp (no
parts parallel port) programmers, and there are a lot of others.  If you
have a hundred clams to blow just buy a PICSTART PLUS from mouser.com. Get
MPLAB free from Microchip.com, and talk your local rep out of a paper
databook (they are getting harder to find.  Electronic databooks stink.)
Then read the databook until you fall asleep every night for a week. Works
better than sominex.




-- Lawrence Lile
Senior Project Engineer
Toastmaster, Inc.
Division of Salton, Inc.
573-446-5661 voice
573-446-5676 fax




Jeff Lawver <TakeThisOuTres1ewenEraseMEspamspam_OUTVERIZON.NET>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
01/10/2003 08:07 PM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list


       To:     PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
       cc:
       Subject:        New to PIC


Hello everyone,


       I'm new to PIC, and pretty new to anything related to it. I'm
pretty good
in C/C++ and know a bit of assembly for x86. I have a few PICs coming
[PIC16F84A-04/P] and some 12x's that I'm not going to use since they have
EPROM. but I would like to know how to go about starting with the PIC. I
want to eventually get into robotics with the PIC but I'm satisfied with
whatever projects I can get done. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--Jeff

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body



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2003\01\13@141108 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 08:48:24AM -0600, RemoveMEllileEraseMEspamEraseMESALTONUSA.COM wrote:
> Welcome, Jeff!
>
> Many others will give good suggestions, and cruising around the
> piclist.com site, and the sites it links to like Myke Predko's site
> http://www.myke.com will certainly fill your brain up fast.

It's almost overwhelming.

Each of us approaches the task from a different point of view. Just remember
that all the advise is pretty good and do what you feel comfortable wieh.

>
> But here is how I would start.  Your first project should be the LED
> BLINKY MERIT BADGE.  This apparently useless project can find some
> application if you want to make a statement, such as putting a blinking
> LED on your name badge at an electronics conference.

Agreed on the project. However it's importance is critical for two reasons:

1) It exercises your entire toolchain. So you know that every tools works and
  you know how to invoke every step.
2) It gives positive visual output of success.

The importance of both of these cannot be underestimated.

>
> It works like this.  Take any PIC, doesn't matter which one, the '84 is
> fine.

I would amend this point slightly. Pick the PIC that you are most likely to
use for real projects. Why? Because there is an instinctive attachment to
whatever tools first offer success. One of my colleagues used to call it
"Love what you learn." It applies to cars, appliances, programming languages,
and microcontrollers.

So whatever is picked is generally used as a hammer trying to find a nail.
Since it's a natural tendency, why not go ahead and pick a better hammer.

Based on this I'd recommend in order: 16F876/77(A) 16F628, 18F452. Once the
inexpensive toolchains catch up the 18F parts will go to the top of the list.

>  Program it in assembly language to blink an LED on and off 1X per
> second.  Why use assembly?  1.  It is free.  2. You have to know some
> assembler to program PICs in C efficiently.  3. It is fairly
> straightforward to do.

This is a somewhat tough go. I agree with Lawrence, but I'm painfully aware of
the "Love what you learn" concept. Assembly's single downfall is it's near
total lack of abstraction. And while for PIC assembly it certainly won't do
too much damage for simple projects, as the tasks get more complex, the steeper
the hill to climb becomes. Not because PIC assembly is difficult per se, but
because the process of combining small instructions into something usable
becomes tougher as you go alone the path.

>
> Eventually you will probably use C for all your PIC projects, but learn
> the assembler anyway.

Here's where I want to end my discussion. I think it's best to start with your
likely production toolchain. It's going to require a time and understanding
committment in any case, and the knowledge isn't as easily transferrable as
we'd like to believe. As a simple example doing a bitbanged serial port in
assembly on a 16F84 is a completely different task than programming the 16F877
UART in C. So you end up learning the toolchain/taskchain twice.

Based on the above I'd throw out the following:

* 16F877. Best of the widely supported 16F family.
* JAL. Wouter has everything now. No reason not to use it.
* ICD/Bootloader. Shortens the development turnaround time.

And I'd still start with the blinky LED... ;-)

BAJ

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(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2003\01\14@190242 by Jeff Lawver

picon face
Thanks for the advice everyone :]



-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Byron A Jeff
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:10 PM
To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: New to PIC


On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 08:48:24AM -0600, EraseMEllilespamspamspamBeGoneSALTONUSA.COM wrote:
> Welcome, Jeff!
>
> Many others will give good suggestions, and cruising around the
> piclist.com site, and the sites it links to like Myke Predko's site
> http://www.myke.com will certainly fill your brain up fast.

It's almost overwhelming.

Each of us approaches the task from a different point of view. Just remember
that all the advise is pretty good and do what you feel comfortable wieh.

>
> But here is how I would start.  Your first project should be the LED
> BLINKY MERIT BADGE.  This apparently useless project can find some
> application if you want to make a statement, such as putting a blinking
> LED on your name badge at an electronics conference.

Agreed on the project. However it's importance is critical for two reasons:

1) It exercises your entire toolchain. So you know that every tools works
and
  you know how to invoke every step.
2) It gives positive visual output of success.

The importance of both of these cannot be underestimated.

>
> It works like this.  Take any PIC, doesn't matter which one, the '84 is
> fine.

I would amend this point slightly. Pick the PIC that you are most likely to
use for real projects. Why? Because there is an instinctive attachment to
whatever tools first offer success. One of my colleagues used to call it
"Love what you learn." It applies to cars, appliances, programming
languages,
and microcontrollers.

So whatever is picked is generally used as a hammer trying to find a nail.
Since it's a natural tendency, why not go ahead and pick a better hammer.

Based on this I'd recommend in order: 16F876/77(A) 16F628, 18F452. Once the
inexpensive toolchains catch up the 18F parts will go to the top of the
list.

>  Program it in assembly language to blink an LED on and off 1X per
> second.  Why use assembly?  1.  It is free.  2. You have to know some
> assembler to program PICs in C efficiently.  3. It is fairly
> straightforward to do.

This is a somewhat tough go. I agree with Lawrence, but I'm painfully aware
of
the "Love what you learn" concept. Assembly's single downfall is it's near
total lack of abstraction. And while for PIC assembly it certainly won't do
too much damage for simple projects, as the tasks get more complex, the
steeper
the hill to climb becomes. Not because PIC assembly is difficult per se, but
because the process of combining small instructions into something usable
becomes tougher as you go alone the path.

>
> Eventually you will probably use C for all your PIC projects, but learn
> the assembler anyway.

Here's where I want to end my discussion. I think it's best to start with
your
likely production toolchain. It's going to require a time and understanding
committment in any case, and the knowledge isn't as easily transferrable as
we'd like to believe. As a simple example doing a bitbanged serial port in
assembly on a 16F84 is a completely different task than programming the
16F877
UART in C. So you end up learning the toolchain/taskchain twice.

Based on the above I'd throw out the following:

* 16F877. Best of the widely supported 16F family.
* JAL. Wouter has everything now. No reason not to use it.
* ICD/Bootloader. Shortens the development turnaround time.

And I'd still start with the blinky LED... ;-)

BAJ

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