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PICList Thread
'My PIC is dead. 29.4.99 RIP'
1999\04\29@132157 by Stuart Meier

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Sadly, my IND TEMP SMT 12c508 died this after noon, when I shot it with
Freeze 75 thermal spray. This stuff claims to go down to -49degC, but the
PIC was sitting in the sunshine when it got hit, so I expected it not to go
lower than -40. I was very sad it DIED - I thought it might freeze until
warmed up a bit, but now certified dead and in the WPB.

Unfortunately I don't have a -40 thermometer.

Should it have died, or just frozen up until warmed up or reset. ANyone any
idea on PIC response outside certified range?

Stuart Meier

1999\04\29@132752 by Kevin Fisk

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Thermal shock could have killed it.

Stuart Meier wrote:
>
> Sadly, my IND TEMP SMT 12c508 died this after noon, when I shot it with
> Freeze 75 thermal spray. This stuff claims to go down to -49degC, but the
> PIC was sitting in the sunshine when it got hit, so I expected it not to go
> lower than -40. I was very sad it DIED - I thought it might freeze until
> warmed up a bit, but now certified dead and in the WPB.
>
> Unfortunately I don't have a -40 thermometer.
>
> Should it have died, or just frozen up until warmed up or reset. ANyone any
> idea on PIC response outside certified range?
>
> Stuart Meier

1999\04\29@134620 by Ron Barnes

picon face
Yep, sounds like thermal shock.... your PIC in the
sunshine was probably sitting around 120F or so then
you hit the poor little guy with -40 degree freon,
instantly shrinking the little wire interconnects, the
die, everything.  Chances are you snapped the little
wires from the die to the pins.

--- Kevin Fisk <spam_OUTkfiskTakeThisOuTspamWKPOWERLINK.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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1999\04\29@134624 by engelec

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Stuart,

I use extended rated pics there is E letter on it  up to 125C
in our dino we ran a test up to 140C it was still working
fine sorry I didn't try cold test but this test tells me that
microchip products are very reliable and you can trust them.
I personally do.
I like to know what temp range pic did you test.?

Andre



Stuart Meier wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\04\29@142525 by Thomas McGahee

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Stuart,
What killed the PIC is not the temperature that you took it to,
but the RATE OF CHANGE of temperature. Within a fraction of a second
you took it from something substantially above 20 deg C to something
below 40 deg C. With that large a RATE of change the innards of the
PIC could well have been damaged by thermal shock. What you did
was the equivalent of hitting the insides of the PIC with a
sledge hammer. Always reduce the temperature SLOWLY. Don't just
sneak up on the poor PIC and blast it with a super-cold spray.
Apply the spray at first from a distance, and then slowly come
closer so the chip has a chance to cool at a relatively slow rate.

When attempting to actually RUN a frozen chip, be aware that the
onlsought of current coursing through the chip can cause local
heating that can ALSO cause a local thermal shock. You will have
various temperature gradients present, and even if the chip
works, it may appear flakey until the over-all chip temperature
stabilizes.

Fr. Tom McGahee

----------
{Quote hidden}

1999\04\29@144611 by Richard Martin

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"It's not the fall (in temperature) that killed it, it's the sudden
[start]"      Anon.

1999\04\29@153628 by John Bellini

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It could have been condensation shorting the pins as well as thermal
shock.

               -----Original Message-----
               From:   Stuart Meier [.....smeierKILLspamspam.....PAVILION.CO.UK]
               Sent:   Thursday, April 29, 1999 10:21 AM
               To:     EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
               Subject:        My PIC is dead. 29.4.99 RIP

               Sadly, my IND TEMP SMT 12c508 died this after noon, when
I shot it with
               Freeze 75 thermal spray. This stuff claims to go down to
-49degC, but the
               PIC was sitting in the sunshine when it got hit, so I
expected it not to go
               lower than -40. I was very sad it DIED - I thought it
might freeze until
               warmed up a bit, but now certified dead and in the WPB.

               Unfortunately I don't have a -40 thermometer.

               Should it have died, or just frozen up until warmed up
or reset. ANyone any
               idea on PIC response outside certified range?

               Stuart Meier

1999\04\29@165305 by Reginald Neale

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>It could have been condensation shorting the pins as well as thermal
>shock.
>
 That would be my guess too. Fish it out of the WPB, blow it
 off with an air jet, dry it gently with a heat gun, wait a
 couple of hours and test it again.

 Reg Neale

1999\04\29@180130 by Stuart Meier

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Thanks for all the responses.  I should have thought of thermal shock, and
condensation. He seemed fine all covered in snow, death was during the warm
up it appeared (either because of lag as the core of the PIC caught up with
external temp, or the snow melting...)

So next time I shoot him with Freon  I will give him warning, and do it
v----e----r----y        s---l----o----w----l----y!

Stuart Meier

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas McGahee <tom_mcgaheespamspam_OUTSIGMAIS.COM>
To: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: 29 April 1999 19:25
Subject: Re: My PIC is dead. 29.4.99 RIP


>Stuart,
>What killed the PIC is not the temperature that you took it to,
>but the RATE OF CHANGE of temperature. Within a fraction of a second

1999\04\29@192818 by Tim Hamel

picon face
I'm sitting in my chair cracking up the way you guys refer to PICs as
"beings." We should start a list..."You know you've been using PICs too long
when..." <VBG> btw, when are the funeral services?

Tim H.

In a message dated 4/29/99 3:02:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RemoveMEsmeierTakeThisOuTspamPAVILION.CO.UK writes:

{Quote hidden}

1999\04\30@135620 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <012501be928b$c2427fc0$1d084ad4@StuartMeier>, Stuart Meier
<spamBeGonesmeierspamBeGonespamPAVILION.CO.UK> writes
>Thanks for all the responses.  I should have thought of thermal shock, and
>condensation. He seemed fine all covered in snow, death was during the warm
>up it appeared (either because of lag as the core of the PIC caught up with
>external temp, or the snow melting...)

I would suspect the chip must have been faulty to have died in this way,
I've been squirting chips with freezer for years (while looking for
thermal intermittent faults), and good chips don't have any problems
with been turned into an iceberg :-).
--

Nigel.

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1999\04\30@200812 by mdelong

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I agree, the chip might be defective.

Where I used to work(we made DRAM's), packaged chips were subjected to much more
severe thermal shock than what you had described.  When we had failures, we
normally traced it back to either fabrication or packaging problems.

Regards,

Bancherd(Mike) DeLong

Nigel Goodwin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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