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PICList Thread
'Motor Feedback'
2000\02\08@093406 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I have an autohelm for my sailboat that I would like to replace the &quot;smarts&quot;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">with a PIC.&nbsp; The motor has a small circuit board attached to it that I feel</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">is some sort of feedback circuit.&nbsp; My analog skills have never been a strong</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">point, and wanted to take advantage of the list to see if someone out there</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">could give me an educated guess to this circuit.&nbsp; I contacted Maxon to see</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">if it was one of their feedback units, but they stated that motor was a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">special order with no feedback.&nbsp; The unit runs from 12vdc</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Thanks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">David</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Red</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 27 ohm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .3 ohm power resistor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Yel -----/\/\/\/\/\----|----/\/\/\/\/\/--|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 220 ohm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |----/\/\/\/\/\/----|---Motor------|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |----------|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Blue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Green</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Just in case the ASCII art gets distorted,&nbsp; there is a yellow wire that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">feeds a 27 ohm and a 220 ohm resistor.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The other end of the 27 ohm goes to a red wire and a .3 ohm power resistor.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The other end of the 220 resistor goes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to one terminal of the motor, and to a Blue wire and a Green wire.&nbsp; The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other end of the .3 ohm power resistor goes to the 2nd terminal of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">motor.</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Are you absolutely sure that the blue and the green are tied together?&nbsp; My first guess would be that the 0.3R resistor is for current measuring purposes, and the 27R and 220R provide a reference voltage to the control electronics.&nbsp; However, to sense current there would have to be a wire comming from the junction of the 0.3R resistor and the motor.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Cheers</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
</P>

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2000\02\08@111522 by Fansler, David

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Michael - I think I have it ringt, but will try to re-check tonight.
Thanks,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Rigby-Jones [spam_OUTmrjonesTakeThisOuTspamNORTELNETWORKS.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:31 AM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Motor Feedback





       -----Original Message-----
From:   Fansler, David [SMTP:DFANSLERspamKILLspamAUTOCYTE.COM]
Sent:   Tuesday, February 08, 2000 1:52 PM
To:     .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        OT: Motor Feedback

       I have an autohelm for my sailboat that I would like to replace the
"smarts"
with a PIC.  The motor has a small circuit board attached to it that I feel
is some sort of feedback circuit.  My analog skills have never been a strong

point, and wanted to take advantage of the list to see if someone out there
could give me an educated guess to this circuit.  I contacted Maxon to see
if it was one of their feedback units, but they stated that motor was a
special order with no feedback.  The unit runs from 12vdc

       Thanks
David

                             Red
                      |
           27 ohm     |     .3 ohm power resistor
Yel -----/\/\/\/\/\----|----/\/\/\/\/\/--|
     |                                  |
     |      220 ohm                     |
     |----/\/\/\/\/\/----|---Motor------|
                         |
                    |----------|
                    |          |
                  Blue       Green

       Just in case the ASCII art gets distorted,  there is a yellow wire
that
feeds a 27 ohm and a 220 ohm resistor.
The other end of the 27 ohm goes to a red wire and a .3 ohm power resistor.
The other end of the 220 resistor goes
to one terminal of the motor, and to a Blue wire and a Green wire.  The
other end of the .3 ohm power resistor goes to the 2nd terminal of the
motor.

Are you absolutely sure that the blue and the green are tied together?  My
first guess would be that the 0.3R resistor is for current measuring
purposes, and the 27R and 220R provide a reference voltage to the control
electronics.  However, to sense current there would have to be a wire
comming from the junction of the 0.3R resistor and the motor.

Cheers

Mike

2000\02\09@083613 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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part 0 6053 bytes
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">After reviewing the circuit mounted to the motor, I did find an error - so</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">here is the revised schematic.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Red</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 27 ohm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; .3 ohm power resistor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Yel -----/\/\/\/\/\----|----/\/\/\/\/\/--|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 220 ohm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |----/\/\/\/\/\/----|---Motor------|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Blue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Green</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Just in case the ASCII art gets distorted,&nbsp; there is a yellow wire that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">feeds a 27 ohm and a 220 ohm resistor.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The other end of the 27 ohm goes to a red wire and a .3 ohm power resistor.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The other end of the 220 resistor goes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to one terminal of the motor, and to a Blue wire.&nbsp; The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other end of the .3 ohm power resistor goes to the 2nd terminal of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">motor and a Green wire.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This is more than likely a protection scheme to limit the current to the motor.&nbsp; The 27R and 220R resistor provide a reference to the control circuitry.&nbsp; By placing these devices in close proximity to the motor, any voltage drops in supply cables are ignored.&nbsp; The current limit will probably become active when the voltage drop across the 0.3R resistor exceeds that accross the 27R resistor.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I=(V*(27/247))/0.3&nbsp; where V is the supply voltage.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Your original post asked if this was some kind of feedback circuit.&nbsp; Well it is in a sense, but it dosen't feedback positional information, only current draw</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Cheers</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike.</FONT>
</P>

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2000\02\09@085702 by Andrew T Kelley

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On Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:34:03 -0000 Michael Rigby-Jones
<EraseMEmrjonesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTNORTELNETWORKS.COM> writes:
{Quote hidden}

If it does feed back current...then the chip probably calculates the
speed from it..

Andrew
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