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'Linux'
2000\04\27@131302 by Allen Demers

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Hello all!

I am relatively new to Pics.  I am thinking of undertaking a little
(huge to a novice !:) project.  I would like to make a Mp3 player for
the car. I was wondering if I might pic the lists brains on a few
subjects.  Here are some of the areas I need help in:

1)Will LINUX run on a pic?  If so , which one?  ANd of course how!

2)Is there an easy way to interface with an IDE drive?  Any one have a
clue where I could find out how to do this?  I have found lots of info
on just what an IDE/ATA device is, just not how to use it!  Any help on
the technicalities would be great!

3)Does anyone know if there is an "easy"(pic related) way to decode and
playback an mp3?  I have looked in the archives but keep getting a
search result of >600 hits!

Again any help anyone has would be great.  I am new but I like to think
I learn quickly!  :)

Thanks,
Allen

2000\04\27@131929 by Peter L. Berghold

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On Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 01:07:40PM -0400, Allen Demers wrote:
> 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?  If so , which one?  ANd of course how!
>

That is a very interesting question. First off, I have heard of Linux running
on Palm Pilots, WinCE palmtops, and even older XT class PCs.  However, a PIC
has a lot less RAM available to it than any of the devices I just mentioned.


--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Peter L. Berghold                        spam_OUTPeterTakeThisOuTspamBerghold.Net
"Linux renders ships                     http://www.berghold.net
NT renders ships useless...."

2000\04\27@141601 by Kieran Miller

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> 3)Does anyone know if there is an "easy"(pic related) way to decode and
> playback an mp3?  I have looked in the archives but keep getting a
> search result of >600 hits!

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here a bit. PICs are not meant to
be number crunchers - and decoding an MP3 in real-time takes quite a lot of
oomph.

I'm doing a portable MP3 player of my own, which is controlled by a PIC
16F874. It's interfaced to a Micronas MAS3507D MP3 decoder
(http://www.micronas.com I think), that does all the hard work and the PIC
just keeps it in check, while supplying it with data.

Hope this helps,

Kieran

2000\04\27@143848 by Soren Knudsen

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Check this out if you havent allready

http://www2.empeg.com/main.html

Soren K

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\27@145306 by Scott Dattalo

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On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Allen Demers wrote:

> 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?

No. But a pic can run on Linux. If you happen to get Linux ported to a pic, say
by this weekend, then you can simulate Linux while linux simulates a pic! But
seriously, the current pic devices Microchip offers cannot support Linux. If you
want to go the other way, then check out:

http://www.dattalo.com/gnupic/gpsim.html

Scott

PS. This kind of reminds me of the Palm/Wince situation where someone has ported
Poser (the Palm OS emulator) to Wince. Now except for the 1 week battery life
and daily crashes, you can have the benefits of a Palm Pilot if you've
unfortunately sunk your money into a wince thingy.

2000\04\27@150927 by Andrew Kunz
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>PS. This kind of reminds me of the Palm/Wince situation where someone has
ported
>Poser (the Palm OS emulator) to Wince. Now except for the 1 week battery life
>and daily crashes, you can have the benefits of a Palm Pilot if you've
>unfortunately sunk your money into a wince thingy.

Which explains why they call it "wince"

Andy

2000\04\27@155048 by M. Adam Davis

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> 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?  If so , which one?  ANd of course how!

Technically?  Maybe, but it would run more slowly than molasses going uphill on
a cold day, and require more external support chips/components than an early XT
computer.

Practically? No, Linux will not run on a PIC.  The PIC was not designed for any
processing past that of an 8-bit microCONTROLLER.  Linux should not be run on
anything less than a 16-bit microPROCESSOR.

> 2)Is there an easy way to interface with an IDE drive?  Any one have a
> clue where I could find out how to do this?  I have found lots of info
> on just what an IDE/ATA device is, just not how to use it!  Any help on
> the technicalities would be great!

There are lots of easy ways to interface a PIC with an IDE atapi device, but the
code behind the interface is somewhat more difficult to wrestle.  Look at
http://www.mp3ar.com/ for info on this.

> 3)Does anyone know if there is an "easy"(pic related) way to decode and
> playback an mp3?  I have looked in the archives but keep getting a
> search result of >600 hits!

The MP3 decoding, while not as intensive as the encoding, is still too much for
a PIC to handle.  One should not pursue decoding MP3s on anything less than a
16-bit microprocessor with a built in math coprocessor.

> Again any help anyone has would be great.  I am new but I like to think
> I learn quickly!  :)

Like anything else, you could shoehorn some of these activities into a PIC, but
its not likely that you'll achieve satisfactory results in doing so.

-Adam

2000\04\27@160527 by Robert Wuest

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Allen Demers wrote:

> 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?  If so , which one?  ANd of course how!

No, the Linux kernel requires an MMU and the pic does not have one.

--
Robert Wuest, PE
Sirius Engineering Company

2000\04\28@030157 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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part 0 3534 bytes
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I am relatively new to Pics.&nbsp; I am thinking of undertaking a little</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(huge to a novice !:) project.&nbsp; I would like to make a Mp3 player for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the car. I was wondering if I might pic the lists brains on a few</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">subjects.&nbsp; Here are some of the areas I need help in:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">1)Will LINUX run on a pic?&nbsp; If so , which one?&nbsp; ANd of course how!</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Why would you want to?&nbsp; You don't have to run llinux on something to make it decode MP3 streams....</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">2)Is there an easy way to interface with an IDE drive?&nbsp; Any one have a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">clue where I could find out how to do this?&nbsp; I have found lots of info</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">on just what an IDE/ATA device is, just not how to use it!&nbsp; Any help on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">the technicalities would be great!</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Ongoing discussion on this, and even a competition with a notebook hard drive up for grabs from a piclist member if you write and publish the code.</FONT></P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">3)Does anyone know if there is an &quot;easy&quot;(pic related) way to decode and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">playback an mp3?&nbsp; I have looked in the archives but keep getting a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">search result of &gt;600 hits!</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Use a dedicated hardware decoder such as the Micronas MAS3057D.&nbsp; You just have to supply an MP3 encoded bitstream to this custom DSP chip, it does the rest.</FONT></P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Again any help anyone has would be great.&nbsp; I am new but I like to think</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I learn quickly!&nbsp; :)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Thanks,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Allen</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Check out<U> <A HREF="http://www.mp3ar.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.mp3ar.com</A></U>&nbsp; It has pretty much everything you need.&nbsp; Be warned though, that this is not a trivial project suitable for an absolute beginner.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Regards</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike Rigby-Jones</FONT>
</P>

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2000\04\28@031652 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Allen Demers wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">&gt; 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?&nbsp; If so , which one?&nbsp; ANd of course how!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">No, the Linux kernel requires an MMU and the pic does not have one.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Robert Wuest, PE</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sirius Engineering Company</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">The 32 bit version of Linux does, but ELKS in being developed to run on 80286 down to 8086, and portable to other architectures without an MMU.&nbsp; They've even managed to get linux (mostly) working on Psion's sixteen bit organisers such as the 3a and 3c etc.&nbsp; I'm pretty darn sure you couldn't get linux to fit into any 16x PIC, but maybe the new 18C series??&nbsp; Just another challenge for the mad linux porting community!</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
</P>

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2000\04\28@034640 by David Lions

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Actually, we were looking at copying^H^H^H^H^H^H this design based on
Motorola coldfire:

http://www.moretonbay.com (their 'Netel' product)

It doesn't have MMU.  Got one right here, on our lan, so you can log it but
it's running linux.  Look around their site for the code, which they are
obliged to provide.


As for running Linux on a PIC...


HAHAHAHA!!!  ROTFLMAO!  hehehehahahahohoho..
Bahaa!! Muahhhahahaha!

hehe

haha

HAHAHAHAAA!


OH MY GOD!

haha.

HAHAHAHA!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, geez thats funny.

Find a REAL micro.

PIC = Peripheral Interface Controller?

A PIC, IMHO, is a glorified CPLD.


Linux?  Hahaha. Hahaha thats funny.  Hehehe


heehee


At 08:11 AM 4/28/00 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
>  {Original Message removed}

2000\04\28@072835 by Andrew Kunz

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A PIC that can run 4MB of RAM can emulate a MMU.

<G>

Andy










Robert Wuest <.....rwuestKILLspamspam.....WUEST.ORG> on 04/27/2000 04:02:47 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: Linux








Allen Demers wrote:

> 1)Will LINUX run on a pic?  If so , which one?  ANd of course how!

No, the Linux kernel requires an MMU and the pic does not have one.

--
Robert Wuest, PE
Sirius Engineering Company

2000\04\28@090705 by M. Adam Davis

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Actually, I think it would be very interesting (and maybe a little instructive)
to recreate a 'modern' MPU architechture using a series of PICs.  One or two for
the core, a few for the FPU, one for buss control, interrupts, etc.

-Adam

Andrew Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\28@223310 by Jon Hylands

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On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:51:31 +1000, David Lions <spamBeGonedlionsspamBeGonespamMIVA.COM.AU> wrote:

> As for running Linux on a PIC...
>
> HAHAHAHA!!!  ROTFLMAO!  hehehehahahahohoho..
> Bahaa!! Muahhhahahaha!

Check out http://www.rtjcom.com -- that guy has a pretty interesting Java
VM running on a 68HC11...

I know that's not the same thing as getting Linux on a PIC, but I wonder if
you could shoehorn his Java VM into one of the high-end PICs, if you
interfaced it to external RAM...

Food for thought :-)

Later,
Jon

--------------------------------------------------------------
  Jon Hylands      TakeThisOuTJonEraseMEspamspam_OUThuv.com      http://www.huv.com/jon

 Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle)
          http://www.huv.com

2000\04\29@113235 by picxpert

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Well, Scenix has a Java VM running on an SX52 - seriously!
http://www.scenix.com/news/press/000131.htm

They use external EEPROM or Flash to store the Java program (NOT the VM), as
well as an external SRAM.

Of course, the PIC would be about 10x slower doing this if you tried,
because the 50MHz SX they're using gets 50MIPS, but a 20MHz PIC only gets 5
MIPS. Still, it would be really neat.

-Randy Glenn
RemoveMEPICxpertANTISPAMspamTakeThisOuTtechie.com (remove ANTISPAM)
http://i.am/PICxpert

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half asleep upon my knee,
Some freak, from a menagerie?
NO! It's Eric, the half a bee!" - Monty Python

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