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'Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC'
2003\02\17@134544 by Ryan Underbrink

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Quick Question:

I did a bunch of work with PICs in college, and now I'm hobbying around with them, mainly in robots and such. Back then I did all of my programming in ASM, but I want to know what I should use when I'm wanting to speed up the process and just get something working quickly. I have a copy of PICC Lite, but I see that only works for three chips.  Is there a decently priced (<$100) package that can program all the PIC Micros?  I know most of the ones I've seen are $$$$. And what about BASIC? I've never really messed with BASIC Programming, so I'm not sure what capabilities (PWM and the like) are covered in these BASIC Compiler packages.

Thanks,
Ryan
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2003\02\17@140014 by Stef

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maybe JAL or  XCSB?
http://www.voti.nl

Ryan Underbrink wrote:

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2003\02\17@140636 by Wouter van Ooijen

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read the languages part of http://www.voti.nl/swp

Wouter van Ooijen

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consultancy, development, PICmicro products

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2003\02\17@143753 by John Pearson

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What a great page. Thanks for writing it.

Anyone know of a similar page for DSPs?

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouterspamKILLspamVOTI.NL>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC


{Quote hidden}

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2003\02\17@150944 by llile

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I have called this "The Never Ending Religious War over C Languages" in
the past <GRIN> , another way to look at it is, if you don't like my
answer, look in the PIC archives and you'll find someone with the opposite
opinion.

1.  Hitech PICC lite is free, and you already know the
advantages/disadvantages of it.  Their full-scale version costs $600-800 I
think (look it up)

2. CCS PCM will do any chip with a 14 bit core, costs $99, and is not a
bad program.  I find it a little easier to learn than Hitech C, and a
little more forgiving to the new user, since it is not strictly ANSI
compliant.  Brothers have come to blows with drawn swords over the
differences and advantages of CCS C vs Hitech C, but the bottom line is
CCS is cheaper up front.  CCS charges a maintenance fee of $99 per year if
you want to keep up with the current chips.  Hobbyists might not need to
bother with this.

3.  If you want a GNU compiler, try Jal from Wouter Van Ooijen (Wouter is
a guy on the PICLIST not a company)  Jal is a high-level language for a number of Microchip PIC (16c84, 16f84,
12c508, 12c509, 16F877) and Ubicom SX (SX18 and SX28) microcontrollers
resembling Pascal. http://www.voti.nl/jal/n_index.html    Between these five PICs you could
accomplish about anything you'd ever want to do with a PIC as a hobby
project.  the '877 will do about anything a PIC will do, and the 12C508 is
as small and cheap as they come.  And you can't beat the price.

Why use C or JAL?  Speed of coding and maintainability of your code, plus
a better understanding of what it is doing.

Why stick with assembler?  Learning curve of C can be steep, other tools
cost money.

There are basic compilers for the PIC too.  If you don't already know
BASIC, then they will be as much work to learn as C and as expensive.
There are also Basic Stamps, which have a Basic interpreter built in and
are pretty easy to program.  I don't know much  else about them except
they are a common entry point for hobbyists.

-- Lawrence Lile





Ryan Underbrink <EraseMErunderbrinkspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTEV1.NET>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
02/17/2003 12:49 PM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list


       To:     @spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
       cc:
       Subject:        Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC


Quick Question:

I did a bunch of work with PICs in college, and now I'm hobbying around
with them, mainly in robots and such. Back then I did all of my
programming in ASM, but I want to know what I should use when I'm wanting
to speed up the process and just get something working quickly. I have a
copy of PICC Lite, but I see that only works for three chips.  Is there a
decently priced (<$100) package that can program all the PIC Micros?  I
know most of the ones I've seen are $$$$. And what about BASIC? I've never
really messed with BASIC Programming, so I'm not sure what capabilities
(PWM and the like) are covered in these BASIC Compiler packages.

Thanks,
Ryan
KILLspamrunderbrinkKILLspamspamev1.net

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2003\02\17@152017 by Ned Konz

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On Monday 17 February 2003 12:09 pm, RemoveMEllileTakeThisOuTspamSALTONUSA.COM wrote:
> CCS charges a maintenance fee of $99 per year if
> you want to keep up with the current chips.  Hobbyists might not
> need to bother with this.

More accurately: $99 per year buys the opportunity to try a new
version and see whether it fixed the problems you had without
creating too many others...

At least that's been my experience with their PCH product. I have used
PCM but had to work around a number of its limitations and bugs by
feeding it (pureed and strained) "Baby C".

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GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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2003\02\17@155306 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> 3.  If you want a GNU compiler, try Jal from Wouter Van
> Ooijen (Wouter is a guy on the PICLIST not a company)  Jal is a
high-level
> language for a number of Microchip PIC (16c84, 16f84,
> 12c508, 12c509, 16F877) and Ubicom SX (SX18 and SX28) microcontrollers
> resembling Pascal.

Actually Jal more-or-less supports most flash PICs (12F, 16F630/676,
18F818/819, 16F87x, 16F7x, 18Fxx2/8), but the manual and web page are
outdated and indeed state only the chips listed above. An actually I am
both a guy and a one-man company :)

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\02\17@155931 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> 3.  If you want a GNU compiler, try Jal from Wouter Van

(shit, replying again on the same message)

And actually Jal is not a GNU compiler (that would appear to put it in
the same league as gcc, which is far too much honour), but the source to
the compiler is available under GPL license.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\02\17@161818 by llile

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Entomology lessons:  Which is the reason I (and many others) forked out
the extra 6 C-notes for Hitech C.    OTOH, I am still more comfortable
using CCS C, despite the continuous entomology lessons.



-- Lawrence Lile





Ned Konz <spamBeGonenedspamBeGonespamBIKE-NOMAD.COM>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
02/17/2003 02:19 PM
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       To:     RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
       cc:
       Subject:        Re: Languages -ASM, C++, BASIC


On Monday 17 February 2003 12:09 pm, llileEraseMEspam.....SALTONUSA.COM wrote:
> CCS charges a maintenance fee of $99 per year if
> you want to keep up with the current chips.  Hobbyists might not
> need to bother with this.

More accurately: $99 per year buys the opportunity to try a new
version and see whether it fixed the problems you had without
creating too many others...

At least that's been my experience with their PCH product. I have used
PCM but had to work around a number of its limitations and bugs by
feeding it (pureed and strained) "Baby C".

--
Ned Konz
http://bike-nomad.com
GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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2003\02\18@053117 by Sergio Masci

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XCSB is a structured BASIC. It supports 8, 16 and 32 integers, 32 bit IEEE
754 format floating point. Pointers, arrays, user functions and multi
tasking. The compiler generates optimised native machine code and uses the
XCASM assembler as the backend.

XCASM is a very sophisticated meta assembler. It has high level code
generation capabilities for the PIC. It understands and will generate
optimised code for inline high level expressions (including floating point,
pointer dereferencing, array subscripting and user function invocation).
With it you can write all your control logic in assembler and then your
complex equations (which you might get straight out of a reference book and
not fully understand) in high level notation e.g.

P     .ds_float    1            ; define 32 bit float variable
A    .ds_int        1            ; define 16 bit int variable
Q    .ds             20          ; define array of bytes
J      .ds            1             ; define byte variable

       btfsz    PORTA,0
       goto    lab1

       .let      A = 1 / P * 256 + Q[J]

lab1

XCASM is also directly supported by the ZMech state machine tool

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB
http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCASM
http://www.xcprod.com/titan/ZMECH_PIC
http://www.xcprod.com/titan/ZMECH-DOC/generate/state-machine/block-indx.html

Regards
Sergio Masci

{Original Message removed}

2003\02\18@070245 by Imro Konkol

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Are you real BASIC fun? Try http://www.picputer.com/

Seems better than expensive BasicStamps. Anyway, I had no time to play with
it.

Have a nice day.

Imro Konkol

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