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'LCD-Driver & Frequ. Measurement with 16c84'
1996\08\25@134206 by R.Kunert

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Hi All,

I'm searching for a solution for the following problem:
I want to measure a Frequency up to 1kHz and display this Frquency on a
7-Segment LCD Display with 4-Digits (similar to AN 563). Afterwards I
want to output the measured frequency on a Port.
I guess the 16c84 haven't much enough ports for this purpose. But anyway,
has anyone a solution?

Thanks for all Ideas

Ralf

1996\08\25@155701 by nogueira

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R.Kunert wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm searching for a solution for the following problem:
> I want to measure a Frequency up to 1kHz and display this Frquency on a
> 7-Segment LCD Display with 4-Digits (similar to AN 563). Afterwards I
> want to output the measured frequency on a Port.
> I guess the 16c84 haven't much enough ports for this purpose. But anyway,
> has anyone a solution?
>
> Thanks for all Ideas
>
> Ralf

I have two diferent projects, one measure frequency and
the other drive a 4 digits 7-segment LED display.

My application use TMR0 with prescaler. It count the
number of pulses in 1 second or 0.1 seconds, than it
takes the value left in the prescaller and append to
the value in TMR0 to get a 16 bits number.
In 1 second I have 1 Hz resolution and in 0.1 second
I have 10 Hz resolution.

If you are interested, I can send you via e-mail.

Octavio
--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
  e-mail:   spam_OUTnogueiraTakeThisOuTspammandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
========================================================

1996\08\27@035703 by Asian digital

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At 04:55 PM 8/25/95 -0200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Hi,
       I'm quite interested in your frequency counting project. Would you
mind emailing me more information? Thanks.

Regards
Peter

1996\08\27@132030 by Rob Santello

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Octavio,

>I have two diferent projects, one measure frequency and
>the other drive a 4 digits 7-segment LED display.

I too would like info on your work.

Actually, let me ask you a question.  I play drums and often need to use a
metronome to set and maintain correct tempo.  This works but has drawbacks
in live situations where it is nice to let the tempo move around a bit but
still be at or near the reference tempo.  When using a metronome, once you
'drift' off beat you are 'out of sync' with the metronome and its difficult
to tell if you are still playing at the same rate with a quick glance.
There is a product on the market that uses a piezo on the snare drum and
displays the real time tempo (bmp: in beats per minute) on three 7 segment
LEDs (range: 40-300 bpm).  I bought one and it was terrible!  He used
discrete logic (11 IC's) and the tracking was bad and the resolution varied
according to the range.  Basically it was worthless!  I could really use
something like this and I knew even I could do better.  I've gotten started
on my prototype and so far have a metronome running along at a fixed 120bpm.
Using an '84 with a ICL7218D multiplex display driver (would eventually like
to roll this function into the '84), blah blah blah....

Anyway my question to you is, might you be interested (or have the time
even) to help?  I've been way to busy with work and other things to be able
to put time into this learning project but I could really use the working
product now.  I'm sure someone with your experience could whip something
simple like this out in no time.  Whereas, it will (already has) take me
much longer.  I do have some other 'features' to add to it if possible but
mostly just need to get this part of it going.  I don't know if you would be
interested in something like this or not.  If so, I'd take anything from
free suggestions to (depending on cost) compensating you for more detailed
help.  I will supply any info you would need (parameters, circuit ideas,
function, interface).

I guess I just need to know if you are even interested or able to do
anything like this? If so, what might you need to charge for your time?

Please let me know (or at least send the info on your semi-related projects
- anything that could help will be extremely appreciated!).

Thanks for your time...
Rob Santello
hm: (916) 366-6330  Rancho Cordova, CA

1996\08\27@150033 by John Payson

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> Actually, let me ask you a question.  I play drums and often need to use a
> metronome to set and maintain correct tempo.  This works but has drawbacks
> in live situations where it is nice to let the tempo move around a bit but
> still be at or near the reference tempo.  When using a metronome, once you
> 'drift' off beat you are 'out of sync' with the metronome and its difficult
> to tell if you are still playing at the same rate with a quick glance.

How about this for a device...

Initially, you would punch in the tempo and it would blink the light at
the appropriate rate.

If it detected a "beat" input just before the light was supposed to blink,
it would bump the speed up a little bit.  If it detected a beat just after
the light was supposed to blink, it would bump the speed down a little bit.
By varying the size of its "grab/ignore" zones, you could trade off ability
to adjust more quickly to changes in tempo for ability to ignore notes that
weren't "on the beat".

How does that sound for an approach?  [nb: I'd probably want to add some
phasing logic as well to help the system even more]

1996\08\27@152850 by mfahrion
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> > Actually, let me ask you a question.  I play drums and often need to use a
> > metronome to set and maintain correct tempo.  This works but has drawbacks
> > in live situations where it is nice to let the tempo move around a bit but
> > still be at or near the reference tempo.  When using a metronome, once you
> > 'drift' off beat you are 'out of sync' with the metronome and its difficult
> > to tell if you are still playing at the same rate with a quick glance.
>
> How about this for a device...
>
> Initially, you would punch in the tempo and it would blink the light at
> the appropriate rate.
>
> If it detected a "beat" input just before the light was supposed to blink,
> it would bump the speed up a little bit.  If it detected a beat just after
> the light was supposed to blink, it would bump the speed down a little bit.
> By varying the size of its "grab/ignore" zones, you could trade off ability
> to adjust more quickly to changes in tempo for ability to ignore notes that
> weren't "on the beat".


Hmmmm - interesting application - a metronome that follows you
instead of vice versa.  My music professors would have thrown a fit
:)

Anyway - I'm not sure you can just let the thing track you, if it
does this what's the point of having it?

How about you keep the standard speed metronome but add an
additional meter/gauge/display to indicate the "error" in tempo.
Not the distance of your beat from it but the differences in the
time between beats.  I can picture a vertical bar graph sort of
thing, which would illuminate progressively upwards when you exceed
the set tempo and downwards when as you drag.  This would help you
return to the original tempo with no loss/distortion of the original
"signal".

And here I thought that drummers kept a perfect tempo running in
their heads :)

Best regards
-mike
mfahrionspamKILLspambb-elec.com

1996\08\27@174115 by Edwin Park

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    I play a lot of live music [and I am also a drummer :) ] and such an
    application may prove useful.  Some of the music being played live is
    electronic (i.e. MIDI, drum machine, etc).  Anyway, they are very
    unforgiving about getting out of tempo.  Real musician try to stay in
    beat with the rest of the band if the band seems to be changing the
    tempo a bit; however, these machine just go their own (and correct
    tempo).  People's meter are not perfect, so such a feedback system in
    an electronic music device would be nice.

    The best solution would be to have a monitor (speaker) come back to
    all the musicians, but oftentimes, this is not possible.  First, we
    have to set up quickly, so we always do not have a chance at a sound
    check.  Second, sometimes, we cannot figure a way around the feedback
    we may get if we did have a monitor come back to all the musicians.

    Of course, one has to be careful to prevent the "meter" from speeding
    up ad infinitum after the band starts to speed up.  This often happens
    in beginning bands (like my sixth grade concert band).  When one
    person in the band sped up, the rest of the band sped up, than more
    people sped up, etc.  It gets quite disastrous.

    -Edwin

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

{Quote hidden}

Hmmmm - interesting application - a metronome that follows you
instead of vice versa.  My music professors would have thrown a fit
:)

Anyway - I'm not sure you can just let the thing track you, if it
does this what's the point of having it?

How about you keep the standard speed metronome but add an
additional meter/gauge/display to indicate the "error" in tempo. Not
the distance of your beat from it but the differences in the time
between beats.  I can picture a vertical bar graph sort of thing,
which would illuminate progressively upwards when you exceed the set
tempo and downwards when as you drag.  This would help you return to
the original tempo with no loss/distortion of the original "signal".

And here I thought that drummers kept a perfect tempo running in
their heads :)

Best regards
-mike
.....mfahrionKILLspamspam.....bb-elec.com

1996\08\27@174259 by nogueira

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Asian digital wrote:
> Hi,
>         I'm quite interested in your frequency counting project. Would you
> mind emailing me more information? Thanks.
>
> Regards
> Peter

Hi Peter, this is the routine
RA2 is connected to TMR0 input and the input is connected
to signal via 47K resistor.
The routine return the 24 bit value in REG3,REG2,REG1

;******************************************************
; ROTINA DE CONTAGEM, TEMPO DO LOOP 16us
; To 0.1s GATE=25
; To 1s GATE=250
;******************************************************
CONTA
       BCF     PORT_A,2                ;PARA CONTAGEM
       CLRF    REG3                    ;ZERA O REGISTRO
       CLRF    REG2
       CLRF    REG1
       MOVLW   250                     ;250 NORMALMENTE
       MOVWF   COUNT                   ;ZERA CONTADOR DE TEMPO
       CLRF    RTCC
       NOP
       NOP
       BSF     PORT_A,3                ;LIBERA CONTAGEM
CONTINUA
       NOP
       NOP
       NOP
       NOP
C0      NOP
       NOP
       NOP
       BTFSC   INTCON,RTIF            ;TESTA ESTOURO
       GOTO    INCRM
       NOP
       GOTO    NINCR
INCRM   BCF     INTCON,RTIF
       INCF    REG3,1                 ;SIM INCREMENTA REG3
NINCR   DECF    COUNT,1
       BTFSS   STATUS,Z
       GOTO    CONTINUA
       MOVLW   250
       MOVWF   COUNT
       DECFSZ  GATE,1
       GOTO    C0

       BCF     PORT_A,3               ;PARA CONTAGEM
       MOVF    RTCC,W
       MOVWF   REG2                    ;SALVA RTCC

MAIS    DECF    REG1,1
       BSF     PORT_A,RS               ;\INCREMENTA PRESCALLER
       NOP
       BCF     PORT_A,RS               ;/
       MOVF    REG2,W
       XORWF   RTCC,W                  ;VE SE RTCC MUDOU
       BTFSC   STATUS,Z
       GOTO    MAIS                    ;NAO MUDOU
       INCF    REG1,1
       RETURN



--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
e-mail:   EraseMEnogueiraspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
========================================================
"ProPic" The first Production PIC Programmer running in
Windows and under US$ 20.00.
Avaible at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato

1996\08\27@174306 by nogueira

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Rob Santello wrote:

> There is a product on the market that uses a piezo on the snare drum and
> displays the real time tempo (bmp: in beats per minute) on three 7 segment
> LEDs (range: 40-300 bpm).  I bought one and it was terrible!  He used
> discrete logic (11 IC's) and the tracking was bad and the resolution varied
> according to the range.  Basically it was worthless!  I could really use
> something like this and I knew even I could do better.  I've gotten started
> on my prototype and so far have a metronome running along at a fixed 120bpm.
> Using an '84 with a ICL7218D multiplex display driver (would eventually like
> to roll this function into the '84), blah blah blah....

I think it's easy to change your metronome to a 'inverse metronome', a device
that show your bpm, so you can adjust yourself.
All you have to do is to read the frequency and multiply by 60.

Octavio
--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
e-mail:   nogueiraspamspam_OUTmandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
========================================================
"ProPic" The first Production PIC Programmer running in
Windows and under US$ 20.00.
Avaible at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato

1996\08\27@174306 by nogueira

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face
Rob Santello wrote:

> There is a product on the market that uses a piezo on the snare drum and
> displays the real time tempo (bmp: in beats per minute) on three 7 segment
> LEDs (range: 40-300 bpm).  I bought one and it was terrible!  He used
> discrete logic (11 IC's) and the tracking was bad and the resolution varied
> according to the range.  Basically it was worthless!  I could really use
> something like this and I knew even I could do better.  I've gotten started
> on my prototype and so far have a metronome running along at a fixed 120bpm.
> Using an '84 with a ICL7218D multiplex display driver (would eventually like
> to roll this function into the '84), blah blah blah....

I think it's easy to change your metronome to a 'inverse metronome', a device
that show your bpm, so you can adjust yourself.
All you have to do is to read the frequency and multiply by 60.

Octavio
--
========================================================
Octavio Nogueira
e-mail:   @spam@nogueiraKILLspamspammandic.com.br
homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato
voice/fax: +55 11 240-6474
========================================================
"ProPic" The first Production PIC Programmer running in
Windows and under US$ 20.00.
Avaible at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato

1996\08\27@182647 by Mark K Sullivan

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Have you guys (i.e. real musicians) seen a product called "the human clock"
?  I think is was from an outfit called Kahler (Koehler?)  It was supposed
to listen to the humans and provide a clock for the sequencers.

- Mark Sullivan -

1996\08\27@191144 by John Payson

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> > Initially, you would punch in the tempo and it would blink the light at
> > the appropriate rate.
> >
> > If it detected a "beat" input just before the light was supposed to blink,
> > it would bump the speed up a little bit.  If it detected a beat just after
> > the light was supposed to blink, it would bump the speed down a little bit.
> > By varying the size of its "grab/ignore" zones, you could trade off ability
> > to adjust more quickly to changes in tempo for ability to ignore notes that
> > weren't "on the beat".
>
> Hmmmm - interesting application - a metronome that follows you
> instead of vice versa.  My music professors would have thrown a fit
> :)
>
> Anyway - I'm not sure you can just let the thing track you, if it
> does this what's the point of having it?

Actually, I was planning [but forgot to mention] to also incorporate a
display [perhaps the numerical display could flash in tempo] so the
drummer [or whomever] could see what tempo he was keeping.  The difference
between this and a conventional frequency counter would be that this unit
could ignore complicated rhythms and things which don't happen on the beat.

> How about you keep the standard speed metronome but add an
> additional meter/gauge/display to indicate the "error" in tempo. Not
> the distance of your beat from it but the differences in the time
> between beats.  I can picture a vertical bar graph sort of thing,
> which would illuminate progressively upwards when you exceed the set
> tempo and downwards when as you drag.  This would help you return to
> the original tempo with no loss/distortion of the original "signal".

Might be one way of doing things.  That or straight numeric--probably not
too much of a difference.

> And here I thought that drummers kept a perfect tempo running in
> their heads :)

I'm no drummer, but I can often manage to judge tempo and pitch pretty
well.

1996\08\27@191357 by John Payson

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> I think it's easy to change your metronome to a 'inverse metronome', a device
> that show your bpm, so you can adjust yourself.
> All you have to do is to read the frequency and multiply by 60.

This presupposes:

[1] Your signal source is a nice straight beat instead of a more complex
   pattern.

[2] Your frequency measurement has suitable resolution (you'd need a device
   which measures the period and displays the reciprocol unless you want
   to wait 10 seconds to get a reading accurate to 6bpm).

[3] Your input beat is sufficiently stable that consecutive readings won't
   be jumping around all over the place.

1996\08\28@135517 by Reginald Neale

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>Have you guys (i.e. real musicians) seen a product called "the human clock"
>?  I think is was from an outfit called Kahler (Koehler?)  It was supposed
>to listen to the humans and provide a clock for the sequencers.
>
>- Mark Sullivan -

I think there is also a product called the Russian Dragon. It's a little
box with a microphone, a MIDI connection and a red or green LED depending
on whether you're ahead of (Rushin') or behind (Draggin') the beat.



.....................Reg Neale.....................
"Ignorance is a renewable resource"   P.J. O'Rourke

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