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'JW parts and erasing'
1998\12\29@183124 by Geoff Thornton

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Hi Guys and GALS,
               Another newbie question I'm afraid. How long does it take to era
se a JW
part with a UV eraser, and does anyone know where to aqurie a CHEAP eraser
in Australia, or failing that where I can get a circuit to build my own?
Thanks.


Regards Geoff :)
==================
spam_OUTgeoffTakeThisOuTspamtechie.com

1998\12\29@221038 by James Cameron

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Glen Torr wrote:
> It is OK but the draw wont allow me to keep my JW parts in machined IC
> sockets as is my preference.

Glen, turn the unit upside down, unscrew the front underside screws by
about four millimetres.  This will let you insert JW parts in machine
pin sockets.

Not the best ... you have to make sure you re-seat the casing before
starting it running.

--
James Cameron                                      (.....cameronKILLspamspam@spam@stl.dec.com)

OpenVMS, Linux, Firewalls, Software Engineering, CGI, HTTP, X, C, FORTH,
COBOL, BASIC, DCL, csh, bash, ksh, sh, Electronics, Microcontrollers,
Disability Engineering, Netrek, Bicycles, Pedant, Farming, Home Control,
Remote Area Power, Greek Scholar, Tenor Vocalist, Church Sound, Husband.

"Specialisation is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein.

1998\12\30@000453 by Mark Rokus

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I keep reading about people erasing for what seems to me, long amounts of time.

I use a "DataErase II" ($40.00us) and if I am only developing, set my watch for
3 minutes.  I have yet to have one not completely clear.  If it is a final
part, I erase for 5 minutes just to be sure.  My reasoning is that heating and
overexposure can do nothing to help the life of my precious Eprom chips.  Any
other thoughts?
Mark Rokus

"Keith M. Wheeler" wrote:

> I usually set our eraser on 10 - 15 minutes, but then this is a mean
> eraser, the parts come out too hot to hold!  I know it'll erase a bare
> die in less than 5 minutes (ask me how I know!).

1998\12\30@003641 by Jim Robertson

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At 22:01 29/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I keep reading about people erasing for what seems to me, long amounts of
time.
>
>I use a "DataErase II" ($40.00us) and if I am only developing, set my
watch for
>3 minutes.  I have yet to have one not completely clear.  If it is a final
>part, I erase for 5 minutes just to be sure.  My reasoning is that heating
and
>overexposure can do nothing to help the life of my precious Eprom chips.  Any
>other thoughts?
>Mark Rokus
>

16C5x, 12C50x, 16C505, 16C61, 16C71 erase very quickly. (minutes)

Newer parts, other than the 12-bit core parts take longer.  10-15 minutes
ball park.
I believe as the die get smaller, the erase time increases.)

Parts like the 16C64, 74 that have eraseable code protection can however take
HOURS to erase programmed code protect bits. This is why some people
erronously claimed on the piclist that unerasable parts could be erased
with several
hours exposure. They were wrong.

Of course, nothing erases quicker than the 16X8x parts!

Jim
--------------------------------------------------------
Jim Robertson
Email: newfoundspamKILLspampipeline.com.au

http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
--------------------------------------------------------

1998\12\30@023757 by Geoff Thornton

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Keith,
       where is the DataErase II available From

>
> I keep reading about people erasing for what seems to me, long
> amounts of time.
>
> I use a "DataErase II" ($40.00us) and if I am only developing,
>
> > I usually set our eraser on 10 - 15 minutes

1998\12\30@024009 by Geoff Thornton

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Thanks for the info glen, I will check it out

> Glen Torr
> TorrTech
>

1998\12\30@032025 by Mark Willis

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DigiKey (http://www.digikey.com) at 1-800-344-4539 has them for
$39.95, among others.  Also Needham's has these though they want $49.95
(See http://www.needhams.com/erasers.htm, though it's inaccurate - The
Datarase III has a timer, the II doesn't (I know, I have 2 II's now -
and a mechanical timer to run 'em.) - also
http://www.needhams.com/prices.htm#resale for pricing)  (Maybe they have
III's, which normally do go for $49.95?)

 Mark, .....mwillisKILLspamspam.....nwlink.com

Geoff Thornton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\12\30@081128 by paulb

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Eduardo R. wrote:

>  I bought a standard battery operated fluorescent lamp  for $9.99 and
> then ordered the UV D G4T5 germicidal lamp for $10.30 , added a safe
> enclosure and ready to go ....12 minutes erasure time is enough for me
> having a pipeline.

>   Safe tip : Never look into the burning lamp.

 Fairly obvious point; leave the transparent cover off with the UV lamp
in place because 1} it won't let the UV through and 2} it'll dissolve.

 Mechanical timers (30 min, with bell!) presently on clearance from
Vorlac in Melbourne (or its sister firm) for 50 cents apiece.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\12\30@101347 by Matt Bonner

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Mark Rokus wrote:
>
> I keep reading about people erasing for what seems to me, long amounts of time
.
>
> I use a "DataErase II" ($40.00us) and if I am only developing, set my watch fo
r
> 3 minutes.  I have yet to have one not completely clear.  If it is a final
> part, I erase for 5 minutes just to be sure.  My reasoning is that heating and
> overexposure can do nothing to help the life of my precious Eprom chips.  Any
> other thoughts?

I've erased '74As that were pronounced OK by my PICStart+ but not by my
ProMate II - typically the promate said that the configuration bits had
not been cleared.  In development, this is not really a problem because
these bits don't change from burn to burn.  Every once in a while,
though, I double the erase time to clear everything (15 min to 30 min on
a 15 year old Spectroline with the original tube).

--Matt

1998\12\30@181151 by Hanafi Tanudjaja

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>ordered the UV D G4T5 germicidal lamp for $10.30 , added a safe enclosure


What is "germicidal " mean  ?


Hanafi

1998\12\30@190204 by dave vanhorn

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At 06:28 PM 12/30/98 +0700, Hanafi Tanudjaja wrote:
>>ordered the UV D G4T5 germicidal lamp for $10.30 , added a safe enclosure
>
>
>What is "germicidal " mean  ?


Kills germs. Anti-Bacterial.  The short wave UV light is used in medical
sterilizers.

1998\12\30@204416 by Mike Keitz

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On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:28:04 +0700 Hanafi Tanudjaja
<EraseMEivkvplnespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCENTRIN.NET.ID> writes:

>What is "germicidal " mean  ?

Most living things, including germs (In the USA, "germ" is a layman's
term for a disease-causing bacteria or virus), tend to die more rapidly
when exposed to strong UV light.  Also the UV light changes oxygen in the
air into ozone.  Ozone also kills germs, but it is not very safe to
breathe.  Although not suitable for hospital grade sterilization, a
common application of these lamps was to disinfect things.  For example,
barber's combs would be stored in a cabinet with a UV lamp to attempt to
kill germs before the next customer arrives.

I suppose if EPROMS were invented before the "germicidal" lamp, then the
lamps would be called "EPROM erasing lamps" which also happen to kill
germs.


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1998\12\30@225124 by Eduardo R.

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>What is "germicidal " mean  ?

 Germs killer.   Germs = very small little thing that can make you ill.


>
>


'JW parts and erasing'
1999\01\01@234549 by Hanafi Tanudjaja
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In my local market,there is like neon tube lamp with blue/violet in
color.People ussually
used this lamp to differentiat between fake and original money.Is this
germicidal lamp ?.

Hanafi T

1999\01\02@000308 by dave vanhorn

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At 06:43 AM 1/1/99 +0700, Hanafi Tanudjaja wrote:
>In my local market,there is like neon tube lamp with blue/violet in
>color.People ussually
>used this lamp to differentiat between fake and original money.Is this
>germicidal lamp ?.
>
>Hanafi T

The lamp you want has a glass-clear case, not white, black, or any other color.
The light it emits is very bad for your eyes, it should not be used where
you can see the light.
The part that you can actually see is very dim compared to the part you
can't see.

1999\01\02@083813 by paulb

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Hanafi Tanudjaja wrote:

> In my local market,there is like neon tube lamp with blue/violet in
> color.  People ussually used this lamp to differentiat between fake
> and original money.  Is this germicidal lamp?

 Nope.  It has a glass tube and a violet coating, both of which
completely attenuate the short-wave UV-C radiation necessary to erase
EPROMs.

 I don't know if it is the same as that to which you refer, but I have
a couple of these palm-size "Money Detector" units.  They're quite cute,
using a 1¸" or so cold-cathode UV-A tube and a power converter from two
penlite cells which take up most of the case.

 While UV-A is a bit of a novelty, at this level that's about all it
is, and the firm selling these cheap uses the modules as the basis for
a much more intereting project; a Geiger counter.  I used one for the
case for a laser, though the laser module seems to have degraded.  I
[OT] wonder what experience others have had with longevity of these
lasers?
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\02@135736 by Peter L. Peres

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Hello,

On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Hanafi Tanudjaja wrote:

> In my local market,there is like neon tube lamp with blue/violet in
> color.People ussually
> used this lamp to differentiat between fake and original money.Is this
> germicidal lamp ?.

If the lamp is covered with a black paint and also makes T-shirts (white
cotton) light up with bluish-white fluorescence, then no.

If the lamp is clear 'glass' and emits a distinct ozone smell when lit
(don't look into it and keep the light off of your skin as far as
possible), then probably, yes.

hope this helps,

Peter

1999\01\02@143759 by Peter L. Peres

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Hello,

> case for a laser, though the laser module seems to have degraded.  I
> [OT] wonder what experience others have had with longevity of these
> lasers?

I have purchased a laser pointer almost 2 years ago and it has degraded to
the point where it only lases when cooled with electronics freeze (-50
deg. C). I estimate that the optical power has decreased about 4-fold or
more. Also, there are distinct dark spots in the ray (image obtained using
a good lens and a piece of paper at 2" as screen). They were not there
when it was new. The module's parameters were about 50mA @3V when new,
output rated at >=4mW. No, I did not 'force' it ;(

Peter

1999\01\02@161049 by paulb

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Peter L. Peres wrote:

> If the lamp is clear 'glass' and emits a distinct ozone smell when lit
> (don't look into it and keep the light off of your skin as far as
> possible), then probably, yes.

 The ozone smell is definitive, but there are two specifications of
germicidal lamp; filtered and unfiltered.  You can only tell by the
smell.  I believe you need the unfiltered one for erasing, and this has
something to do with the various stories you hear about some people
experiencing rapid degradation in their tubes (in terms of erase times).

 My point is, *both* types are Very Bad for your eyes.  Very Bad means
take all precautions to avoid exposure.  It doesn't mean that the
occasional flash will send you blind, but that you should take all steps
to avoid even the occasional flash.  Just Common Sense.

 The purple tubes - pretty harmless, despite what my wife does.

 It's morning, and the Kamikaze bird is in full "thwump", repeatedly
bashing itself against its reflection in the sliding doors.  Oh!  ...
He's gone while I typed this!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\02@161706 by Eduardo R.

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In my local market,there is like neon tube lamp with blue/violet in
>> color.........

 ! NO !... what you saw is called a "Black Light Lamp" that detects counterfeit
currency Bills, logo's on credit cards, etc.  . That's not the germicidal lamp.

.

" Happy of those who fears The Lord "
                    Humbleness is the clue.
         ________  ________  ________
        /         /       / /       /
       /_____    /_______/ /_______/
      /         /  \      / \
     /________ /    \    /   \
     ICQ# 10909825   \_ /     \___________
     eriveraspamspam_OUTumemphis.campus.mci.net

1999\01\02@164649 by paulb

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Geoff Thornton <@spam@geoffKILLspamspamTECHIE.COM> wrote:

>  Another newbie question I'm afraid. How long does it take to erase a
> JW part with a UV eraser,

 How long is a piece of string?

> and does anyone know where to acquire a CHEAP eraser in Australia, or
> failing that where I can get a circuit to build my own?

 Well, point is, if you know how to wire a fluorescent lamp, you have
the circuit.  If you want a timer, then catalog no. Z60072 in Vorlac's
( http://www.vorlac.com.au/vorlac/vorlac1.htm ) December/ January
clearance stock for 50¢ should do the job nicely (you supply the knob!).

 Supplier of germicidal tubes *used* to be Gelman Clemco/ Gelman
Sciences, but hey, that was long ago and far away.  If you buy a 4W tube
and get a small fluorescent lantern from FDBs/ Woolworths, could be
quite cheap.

 If however, a 20W tube is just as cheap, consider a 20W fluorescent
batten fitting, approx. $20.  Look for some painted (black) metal louvre
mesh to make a skirt all around to keep the UV in but air circulating
and fit an interlock switch in the bottom so it only operates when
standing on the bench (on a piece of newspaper - don't stand it on the
carpet!).

 Of course, I scored one at a garage sale (but it was from a mate).
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\02@220847 by Jim Robertson

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At 08:09 3/01/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Peter L. Peres wrote:

>
>  The purple tubes - pretty harmless, despite what my wife does.
>

Her name isn't Jennifer Keyte is it?

Sorry, in joke for Australians! ;-)

Jim
--------------------------------------------------------
Jim Robertson
Email: KILLspamnewfoundKILLspamspampipeline.com.au

http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
--------------------------------------------------------

1999\01\03@040512 by Stuart O'Reilly

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Hmmmm,  I heard it was a Mars Bar.
Could be wrong      <G>
Stu


Jim Robertson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\01\03@072848 by Geoff Thornton

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naughty, naughty I quite like Jennifer!

{Quote hidden}

1999\01\03@225835 by paulb

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Jim Robertson wrote:

> Her name isn't Jennifer Keyte is it?

> Sorry, in joke for Australians! ;-)

 Only those addicted to the Cretinizer.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\04@003008 by Geoff Thornton

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Furhter to my request and information by Paul Webster I have determined that
Lawrence and Hanson in Australia can supply germicidal flouro type lamps,
the price they quoted me was $AUS 18.00 plus tax.

> {Original Message removed}

1999\01\04@062334 by paulb

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Geoff Thornton wrote:

> Lawrence and Hanson in Australia can supply germicidal flouro type
> lamps, the price they quoted me was $AUS 18.00 plus tax.

 Boy I absolutely *HATE* that.  It should be illegal.  I really hope
they make it a Trade Practices *punishable offence* when GST comes in.
Now that'll the real test of political honesty!  (Yes!  Oxymoron noted!)

 That's probably about what I paid for my 4W tube 17 years ago!  What
*size* please?  Some 20W ones were floating around surplus, much
cheaper, but that was a similar time ago (ahh!  reminiscing...).
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\01\04@193237 by Jim Robertson

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At 15:28 4/01/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Furhter to my request and information by Paul Webster I have determined that
>Lawrence and Hanson in Australia can supply germicidal flouro type lamps,
>the price they quoted me was $AUS 18.00 plus tax.

I thought Jaycar were selling "replacement" UV lamps for around $10.
Check them out.

Jim


>> {Original Message removed}

1999\01\04@200418 by Geoff Thornton

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> -----Original Message-----

> At 15:28 4/01/99 +1000, you wrote:
> >the price they quoted me was $AUS 18.00 plus tax.
>
> I thought Jaycar were selling "replacement" UV lamps for around $10.
> Check them out.

Thanks for the info Jim, but the latest Jaycar catalogue has them at $24.95
(cat XE-4951.), with an estimated 22% (don't have a heart attack
non-Aussies) sales tax the Lawrence and Hanson lamps work out at $AUS 21.96
>
> Jim


Regards Geoff :)
==================
geoffEraseMEspam.....techie.com

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