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PICList Thread
'JW Erase Time'
1997\05\29@103343 by STEENKAMP [M.ING E&E]

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picon face
Hi,

I bought a few JW devices (x54,x56,x57) about two years ago.  These
devices erased in about 4 minutes under my eraser.  Recently I
bought another x57 and this chip takes 12+ minutes to erase under the
same lamp!  Is the part suspect or have Microchip made their devices a
bit harder to erase in the last two years?

Niki
spam_OUTsteenkmpTakeThisOuTspamfirga.sun.ac.za

1997\05\29@115912 by Eric Martens

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face
It could be that the UV light output of the lamp has dropped. This is normal and
it
depends on how much you use the eraser. You see the same problem with solarium
banks, you
know those things people fry themselfs under to get a nice brown skin, they tend
to get
weak after a period of time. My girlfriend has a solarium and i used to lay my
eproms
next to her to have them erased by the UV light. works great  !!!!!

Greetings Eric Martens

***************************
*  Eric Martens           *
*  .....emarKILLspamspam@spam@knoware.nl  *
**************************

----------
| From: N STEENKAMP [M.ING E&E] <STEENKMPspamKILLspamFIRGA.SUN.AC.ZA>
| To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
| Subject: JW Erase Time
| Date: donderdag 29 mei 1997 18:32
|
| Hi,
|
| I bought a few JW devices (x54,x56,x57) about two years ago.  These
| devices erased in about 4 minutes under my eraser.  Recently I
| bought another x57 and this chip takes 12+ minutes to erase under the
| same lamp!  Is the part suspect or have Microchip made their devices a
| bit harder to erase in the last two years?
|
| Niki
| EraseMEsteenkmpspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTfirga.sun.ac.za

1997\05\29@144511 by chris

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Are you sure it isn't the lamp?  This is typical with use.  You may
want to see if your old parts still erase in 4 minutes!

Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris B. Sakkas (chrisspamspam_OUTitutech.com)  http://www.itutech.com
ITU Technologies (@spam@infoKILLspamspamitutech.com)    ftp://itutech.com
*** Upgrade your PICSTART programmer to program the latest devices   ***
*** with the PHOENIX firmware upgrade! See our web page for details! ***
*** VISA and MasterCard accepted     (513) 661-7523                  ***

1997\05\29@145916 by Mike Keitz

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On Thu, 29 May 1997 14:14:10 +0000 Chris Sakkas <KILLspamchrisKILLspamspamitutech.com>
writes:
>Are you sure it isn't the lamp?  This is typical with use.  You may
>want to see if your old parts still erase in 4 minutes!
>
Also, be sure to clean the chip window before erasing.  Fingerprints and
smudges of adhesive from old sticky labels may not look like much under
visible light, but they can block UV quite well.

-Mike

1997\05\29@162333 by Andy Kunz

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At 04:32 PM 5/29/97 GMT+0200, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I bought a few JW devices (x54,x56,x57) about two years ago.  These
>devices erased in about 4 minutes under my eraser.  Recently I
>bought another x57 and this chip takes 12+ minutes to erase under the
>same lamp!  Is the part suspect or have Microchip made their devices a
>bit harder to erase in the last two years?

Look in the window and compare die sizes.

Andy

======================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865 USA
             Electronics for Industry & R/C Hobbyists
        "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
======================================================================

1997\05\29@224725 by Jim Robertson

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At 01:00 PM 5/29/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 04:32 PM 5/29/97 GMT+0200, you wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I bought a few JW devices (x54,x56,x57) about two years ago.  These
>>devices erased in about 4 minutes under my eraser.  Recently I
>>bought another x57 and this chip takes 12+ minutes to erase under the
>>same lamp!  Is the part suspect or have Microchip made their devices a
>>bit harder to erase in the last two years?
>
>Look in the window and compare die sizes.

>Andy

Exactly! If the die is smaller, allow more erase time.

Jim

>
>======================================================================
>Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865 USA
>              Electronics for Industry & R/C Hobbyists
>         "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
>======================================================================
>
>

1997\05\30@054424 by STEENKAMP [M.ING E&E]

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> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I bought a few JW devices (x54,x56,x57) about two years ago.  These
> >>devices erased in about 4 minutes under my eraser.  Recently I
> >>bought another x57 and this chip takes 12+ minutes to erase under the
> >>same lamp!  Is the part suspect or have Microchip made their devices a
> >>bit harder to erase in the last two years?
> >
> >Look in the window and compare die sizes.
>
> >Andy
>
> Exactly! If the die is smaller, allow more erase time.
>

The die is actually smaller, but (this might be a stupid question) why
would a smaller die take longer to erase?  If the floating gates are
smaller, then less charge will be on them and then it would take less
time to remove it...?

Niki
RemoveMEsteenkmpTakeThisOuTspamfirga.sun.ac.za

1997\05\30@062045 by Mike

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face
At 12:49 PM 5/30/97 -0500, you wrote:

>>Look in the window and compare die sizes.
>
>>Andy
>
>Exactly! If the die is smaller, allow more erase time.
>
>Jim

Why is that ?

Mike


Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\05\30@092020 by myke predko

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>> Exactly! If the die is smaller, allow more erase time.
>>
>
>The die is actually smaller, but (this might be a stupid question) why
>would a smaller die take longer to erase?  If the floating gates are
>smaller, then less charge will be on them and then it would take less
>time to remove it...?

The percentage of area the Metal layers over the cells is actually greater
as the Si gets smaller (ie as the Silicon shrinks, the metalization layers
don't necessarily shrink at the same rate).

This is a common problem with EPROMs as they get more dense.

myke

>
>Niki
>spamBeGonesteenkmpspamBeGonespamfirga.sun.ac.za
>
>

"My ancestors didn't spend millions of years clawing their way to the top of
the food chain, just so I could become a vegetarian"

1997\05\30@102141 by Jim Robertson

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face
At 09:18 AM 5/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> Exactly! If the die is smaller, allow more erase time.
>>>
>>
>>The die is actually smaller, but (this might be a stupid question) why
>>would a smaller die take longer to erase?  If the floating gates are
>>smaller, then less charge will be on them and then it would take less
>>time to remove it...?
>
>The percentage of area the Metal layers over the cells is actually greater
>as the Si gets smaller (ie as the Silicon shrinks, the metalization layers
>don't necessarily shrink at the same rate).
>
>This is a common problem with EPROMs as they get more dense.
>
>myke


Thanks Mike, I didn't actually know the reason why myself, only that
smaller die means longer erase time.  You really got me out of the pooh on
this one!

BTW. Look forward to your book coming out. Just make sure we can get it in
Australia!

Regards,

Jim

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