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'Is it time to give up?-Windows Question'
2009\02\23@123711 by John Ferrell

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The question is whether I should continue to try to fix my Windows XPPRO or format and reload it. There are a very large number of programs to reinstall and moving all the old emails I have kept is going to be difficult. I do have another XPPRO machine on the network I can move to. Most of my data is on separate hard drives both internal and external. That will not be a problem.



The current system will not run .net applications and will not allow .net compilers to run. I have an update that will not install that is trying to update a Windows Installer program that has been superseded. It is not a matter of no information available, it is a matter of being overwhelmed by information when I search the topic! BTW, I have a program that I bought from an MVP site that will move the email files (Outlook Express) but needs .net to work.  



The subject system XP Disk is very old (2002?) so if I go that route I will need to spend a very long time with updates.



Other than the .net and updates issue the machine seems to be doing OK.



If it were easy to move the Outlook Express files I would be inclined to move to the new machine I think.



Opinions please?

John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US

2009\02\23@132047 by Michael Algernon

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If you have another machine you can use for awhile, try using both for  
a while.   Possibly get your .net issues resolved on the new machine  
and then move everything else over.   There may be applications that  
will move your Outlook express files for you.

Another possibility is to get another drive and install an up to date  
copy of XPPRO on it.  Set up your machine to be dual boot or use VM to  
support two copies of XPPRO or just swap drives mechanically.  This  
will allow you to sort out your problems .  With VM you can just leave  
the machine with two heads and use both.   Make sure your backup  
scheme is working well.
MA

{Quote hidden}

 WFT Electronics
Denver, CO   720 222 1309
" dent the UNIVERSE "

All ideas, text, drawings and audio , that are originated by WFT  
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2009\02\23@134619 by Herbert Graf

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On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 12:39 -0500, John Ferrell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Just my opinion, but bite the bullet. In fact, I'd go one further and
use this as an opportunity to change the way you do things to reduce
your reliance on one particular install of the OS.

Back when I used windows I'd "force" myself to wipe and reinstall
regularly (around once a year at least). While this may sound a little
crazy, in the long run I think it saved me alot of time.

First off it keeps you machine "clean", all those trial programs and
apps you don't use anymore just disappear.

Second it forces you do set things up so that you aren't tied to a
particular machine, network shares for projects, different email clients
that don't rely on proprietary formats for storage, things like that.

I've continued the practice even with my Linux installs. I recently
wiped my laptop and installed the latest version of Ubuntu. Even I was
surprised by how quickly I had everything up and running again (Only
glitch I had was I forgot where I put my wireless key...). It's taken me
many years to figure things out, but now that it's done it's nice to
know that any of my systems can go down and it won't really affect me,
at worst I'm looking at about 1 hour for OS install and config, from a
bare drive.

TTYL

2009\02\23@143026 by Richard Prosser

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2009/2/24 Herbert Graf <spam_OUTmailinglist4TakeThisOuTspamfarcite.net>:
{Quote hidden}

I think you need to reformat & reinstall.

Won't outlook express let you export emails to an archive and then
import them again later?

IIRC service pack 3 included all the updates to that time. So you just
need a SP3 disk and then carry out the remaining updates since then.
Still a hassle, but not as bad as it might be.

Richard

2009\02\23@144855 by Tamas Rudnai

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> The current system will not run .net applications and will not allow .net
compilers to run.
> I have an update that will not install that is trying to update a Windows
Installer program
> that has been superseded. It is not a matter of no information available,
it is a matter of
> being overwhelmed by information when I search the topic! BTW, I have a
program that
> I bought from an MVP site that will move the email files (Outlook
> Express) but needs .net to work.

First of all make a backup from your system - I suggest Norton Ghost which
makes it possible to make a snapshot style backup directly to DVD then you
can 're-Ghost' your machine or restore the image to another disk/partition
without the need of reinstalling the OS or any of the application.

.NET:
Check if you have any of the .NET verison installed on your machine already,
and remove if yes. Then install .NET version 1.1 first, then 2.0 and finally
3.0. Note, most of the .NET app will run with 1.1 so you may not need the
newer ones, but it does not hurt except the disk space it needs. But the bad
thing is that newer version does not replace old ones, however, you need to
install the old first - well, what can I say? :-)

Tamas


On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Richard Prosser <.....rhprosserKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\02\23@151447 by Barry Gershenfeld

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As difficult as it is to find an opinion on this subject ;-) I would propose
using a mail program that doesn't have the word "Outlook" in it, and leave
the rest of the system as it is.

Not that I think too highly about loading on things like .NET.  Here at work
I have a separate box that I operate via the Remote Desktop, and anytime I
have to install something that makes me uneasy, it goes onto that box, not
the one in front of me.

2009\02\23@165600 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Won't outlook express let you export emails to an
>archive and then import them again later?

Yes, but you don't need to do that ...

Just copy the .dbx files to another suitable media to save it, and then when
you get the new OS sorted, copy them back into a suitable directory, and
point OE at them (IIRC you do this by 'change directory where files are
stored' option) and it will find the files and ask if you want to use them.
Say 'yes' and it will use the folder/subfolder structure that was saved.

2009\02\23@170757 by John Ferrell

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Moved to [OT] .. sorry for the inconvenience.
John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US


{Original Message removed}

2009\02\23@183036 by John Ferrell

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That sounds too easy... I will try setting it up on the new machine.
John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US


{Original Message removed}

2009\02\23@183336 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Feb 23, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

> I suggest Norton Ghost which makes it possible to make a snapshot  
> style backup

Any other suggestions?  The more recent versions of Ghost have been  
much more complex and invasive "full backup solutions" that insist o  
having "Norton Utilities" installed, leave pieces doing who-knows-what  
running all the time, and other annoyances...

BillW

2009\02\24@120909 by Bob Axtell

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Is this the one that the ISP claims has a virus?

Why not just unplug the internet cable, and get your email from an
uninfected machine? I agree, reloading bunches of apps will create a
very bad week.

--Bob

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:39 AM, John Ferrell
<.....johnferrellKILLspamspam.....earthlink.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\02\24@125426 by Clint Sharp

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In message
<EraseMEd02e69350902231129k7a72208axce20d021753b1286spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmail.gmail.com>, Richard
Prosser <rhprosserspamspam_OUTgmail.com> writes
>IIRC service pack 3 included all the updates to that time. So you just
>need a SP3 disk and then carry out the remaining updates since then.
>Still a hassle, but not as bad as it might be.
>
Slipstream SP3 into a new XP install disk, there are programs out there
that will do it for you, all you have to do is get hold of the network
install service pack and tell the program where it and your XP disk are,
then burn the ISO file to a disk.

The OP should also look for Autopatcher, it's a *very* useful utility
that will automate the download and installation of all required MS
updates after you have a working system.

FWIW, file and setting transfer wizard works well if you have somewhere
to put the data files.
>Richard
>

--
Clint Sharp

2009\02\25@073348 by Gerhard Fiedler

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William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

>> I suggest Norton Ghost which makes it possible to make a snapshot  
>> style backup
>
> Any other suggestions?  

Acronis. Works well, no "side kicks".

Gerhard

2009\02\25@093907 by Robin D. Bussell

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For free there's clonezilla live, I've used it many dozens of times to
backup and restore XP partitions on several different machines with no
issues despite all the dire warnings it gives about the NTFS drivers
being of unguaranteed quality. YMMV of course!

It's all based around linux, in practice all you have to do is download
an ISO file from here:
http://clonezilla.org

then burn it to a disc, boot off it and you're off. I've used a number
of different USB hard drives as the destination for the image files,
again with no problems, the only non intuitive thing is you have to wait
until told to plug in the usb hard drive rather than plugging it in from
the start.

Cheers,
   Robin.

-----Original Message-----
From: @spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On Behalf
Of Gerhard Fiedler
Sent: 25 February 2009 12:34
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: Is it time to give up?-Windows Question

William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

>> I suggest Norton Ghost which makes it possible to make a snapshot  
>> style backup
>
> Any other suggestions?  

Acronis. Works well, no "side kicks".

Gerhard

2009\02\25@101736 by Tamas Rudnai

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I did not know cloneZilla, looks promising. Thanks for that.

Do you know if it supports creating encrypted backups? So if someone takes
your backup drive they would not be able to access to your data?

Thanks,
Tamas


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Robin D. Bussell <RemoveMERobinBTakeThisOuTspamexcelerate.info>wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2009\02\25@115253 by Jake Anderson

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
>
>  
>> I suggest Norton Ghost which makes it possible to make a snapshot  
>> style backup
>>    
>
> Any other suggestions?  The more recent versions of Ghost have been  
> much more complex and invasive "full backup solutions" that insist o  
> having "Norton Utilities" installed, leave pieces doing who-knows-what  
> running all the time, and other annoyances...
>
> BillW
>
>  
boot from a linux live CD and use DD if you want a perfect snapshot.
alternately you could probably just DD the boot sector and copy all the
files across if you want something a little more compact.

2009\02\25@213242 by John Ferrell

face picon face
I have no reason to suspect a virus. The machine has always been protected
by Norton.

John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Axtell" <spamBeGonebob.axtellspamBeGonespamgmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <TakeThisOuTpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Is it time to give up?-Windows Question


Is this the one that the ISP claims has a virus?

Why not just unplug the internet cable, and get your email from an
uninfected machine? I agree, reloading bunches of apps will create a
very bad week.

--Bob

2009\02\26@000849 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Feb 25, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Jake Anderson wrote:

> boot from a linux live CD and use DD if you want a perfect snapshot.

I don't want a "perfect snapshot."  I want a compressed file (or  
preferably a set of DVD-sized files) that can be easily restored to a  
disk of potentially different geometry...

Clonezilla looks interesting; thanks for the pointer...

BillW

2009\02\26@045035 by Clint Sharp

picon face
In message <F2B3AC10075D43C087A1524C67775535@xppro>, John Ferrell
<RemoveMEjohnferrellspamTakeThisOuTearthlink.net> writes
>I have no reason to suspect a virus. The machine has always been protected
>by Norton.
Possibly one of the best reasons to suspect a virus short of not
actually having any AV software. I regularly have to clean up infected
machines that were 'protected' by Norton.

>
>John Ferrell  W8CCW
--
Clint Sharp

2009\02\26@061033 by Richard Seriani

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrellEraseMEspam.....earthlink.net>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspammit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: Is it time to give up?-Windows Question


>I have no reason to suspect a virus. The machine has always been protected
> by Norton.
>
> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>
John,
Norton may not be enough.
You may want to check out Ask-Leo. One good place to start:
http://ask-leo.com/internet_safety_how_do_i_keep_my_computer_safe_on_the_internet.html

Richard


2009\02\26@064642 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Clint Sharp <RemoveMEpiclistEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu> wrote:

> Possibly one of the best reasons to suspect a virus short of not
> actually having any AV software. I regularly have to clean up infected
> machines that were 'protected' by Norton.
>

There is no 100% AV soultion as virus creators are always writing something
that is not being detected by the latest AV products - and they can test
their 'creatures' over many AV products very easily using online testers
like VirusTotal or ThreatExpert.

However, only Norton made the 100% for more than 36 consecutive tests in the
ViruBulletin - that bulletin is owned by another AV company which could not
even achive this - from time to time everyone else filed. But an AV by
itself is not enough if you do not have another security solution like a
good client side firewall that can detect processes or injected threads
accessing to malicious sites or showing some other dangerous behaviours like
rootkit or backdoor activities.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\02\26@103548 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 21:32 -0500, John Ferrell wrote:
> I have no reason to suspect a virus. The machine has always been protected
> by Norton.

I'm going to ignore saying what I think of Norton's "protection"...

That said, frankly your position is very dangerous. No AV software is
100%. Never mind the fact that the virus/trojan/malware writers are
trying 24/7 to bypass the "protection" AV software gives, no AV software
is perfect. It can miss stuff it shouldn't. To believe your machine is
fine simply because it runs AV software is unwise, at best.

TTYL

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