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'India's N-test (fwd)'
1998\05\14@153152 by Vishram Sarurkar

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Dear Friends,

Take a moment and go through these facts:


1. US is the only nation, thus far, to have used the N-weapons.

2. Maximum number of N-tests were conducted (and are still being
conducted) by US, a whooping 1200 odd tests have been conducted thus far
by the Yankees, followed by the erstwhile soviet (700) and China (140+).

3. US is the only agressor in the world, in today's world; it stages wars
and proxy wars - never for its country nor to defend it.  It enjoys
wars.  It can  assume mantle to strom the Iraqi deserts, for and on
behalf of Kuwait. They do not even need an invitation to do that!

4. None of the so called test ban and non-proliferation treaties proposed
by US talk about dismantling of US N-warheads!

5. US preaches (and practices) "what is good for americans, is good for
the rest of the world".  Every other nations, unfortunately, are bullied
to buy this theory.

US does not want to play on a level play ground, it stands high above
all, over a huge stockpile of arms and preaches to the third world about
the dangers of it.  Unfortunately, countries like Australia, which had
taken a tough stand on Frence' pacific N-test, for its own ecology have
to sustain the same on India.  Japan's reaction should be viewed as plain
anguish of someone who had undergone the horror that N-weapon was.  But,
just tell them that we will never try to fabricate ICs and small cars and
will buy  from them; they will be happy.

So called, the big five nuclear nations is just an illusion; the US,
erstwhile  USSR, China, France and UK are not the only countries with
N-arm.  Now, we too are there - rightfully, along with a host of other
shadow powers  like, Pakistan, N.Korea, S.Korea, Iraq(??), Uzbeck, Kazak,
Turkmanistan,  Ukraine, etc.  The real danger is with the coutries who
have not toiled  to get it, but acquired through other means.  The entire
Arab nations  have access from the parts of ex-USSR; Pakistan has access
to chinese technology.

Tell them that India waited for about 25 years before the circumstances
forced it to go for the second test.  This reluctance on the part of India
just indicates that it did not wish to be seen as an agressor, it never
had been one.

Last,  but not least, if anyone is not willing to look into the ground
realities ask them to shut and ponder about the consequences of 1200 odd
tests by the US.  If 1200+ cannot harm the earthlings, a mere 4 tests can
never do that.

Pass this mail  to anyone, whom you might think would be interested.  I
would welcome all feedbacks; supports and flames.

I am planning to follow this posting with another one on "India should
now sign the CTBT and NPT"

Jai Hind.
Vishram.

1998\05\14@193123 by Andy Kunz

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>3. US is the only agressor in the world, in today's world; it stages wars
>and proxy wars - never for its country nor to defend it.  It enjoys
>wars.  It can  assume mantle to strom the Iraqi deserts, for and on
>behalf of Kuwait. They do not even need an invitation to do that!

The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.

Other than that, what you says has a lot of truth contained within it.

Andy

==================================================================
                    Andy Kunz - Montana Design
         Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
==================================================================

1998\05\14@224157 by smg

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Are you sure you are really INFORMED? Do you really know what you are
talking about?  Did you read that stuff, or did someone tell it to you or
did you get your information from the "News"?

----------
> From: Andy Kunz <spam_OUTmontanaTakeThisOuTspamFAST.NET>
> To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: India's N-test (fwd)
> Date: Thursday, May 14, 1998 6:57 PM
>
> >3. US is the only agressor in the world, in today's world; it stages
wars
{Quote hidden}

1998\05\15@101257 by Scientific Measurement Group

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Jai Hind:

You really are convinced that you have some knowledge.  I am fully aware
that you do not, but that is your problem. I belive you will not want to be
confused by facts or truth.  You appear to me as one who is dominated by
your own ideas.  That is OK.  It does not matter to me.  However, I am
requesting that you use a more appropriate forum for your "bursts of
ideological wisdom".  This is not your own playground.  There is a matter
of value here.

1998\05\15@101257 by Scientific Measurement Group

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Jai Hind:

You really are convinced that you have some knowledge.  I am fully aware
that you do not, but that is your problem. I belive you will not want to be
confused by facts or truth.  You appear to me as one who is dominated by
your own ideas.  That is OK.  It does not matter to me.  However, I am
requesting that you use a more appropriate forum for your "bursts of
ideological wisdom".  This is not your own playground.  There is a matter
of value here.

1998\05\15@114647 by Matt Bonner

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
> is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.
>
Hey, Andy

It's really: "Truth, Justice, and the American way".  At least according
to the old Superman TV series.  ;-)

--Matt

1998\05\15@131758 by Andy Kunz

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At 09:39 AM 5/15/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Andy Kunz wrote:
>>
>> The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
>> is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.
>>
>Hey, Andy
>
>It's really: "Truth, Justice, and the American way".  At least according
>to the old Superman TV series.  ;-)

I know that, Matt, but he doesn't understand the Right Way (I mean the
American Way - same difference).

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\05\15@133116 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
At 18:57 1998-05-14 -0400, you wrote:
>>3. US is the only agressor in the world, in today's world; it stages wars
>>and proxy wars - never for its country nor to defend it.  It enjoys
>>wars.  It can  assume mantle to strom the Iraqi deserts, for and on
>>behalf of Kuwait. They do not even need an invitation to do that!

Well, the "invitation" is the dependance of (and desire to) the oil in that
region.

>The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
>is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.

Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
lack of interest from some countries.

>Other than that, what you says has a lot of truth contained within it.
>
>Andy
>
>==================================================================
>                     Andy Kunz - Montana Design
>          Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
>==================================================================
>
>
/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  mrtspamKILLspaminame.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\05\15@145919 by Jerry Meng

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At 08:04 PM 5/14/98 +0500, you wrote:
>Dear Friends,
>
>Take a moment and go through these facts:
>Vishram.
>

Hey, your message is too far away from the Topic, this is a technical
mailing list. If those guys in your country who did the N-test, is doing
things in the same way, I am afraid that they will use nuclear technology
in a WRONG way!

God bless the earth!




Jerry Meng, BA1FB

.....ba1fbKILLspamspam.....qsl.net
http://www.qsl.net/ba1fb

1998\05\15@152619 by Andy Kunz

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>Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
>their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
>lack of interest from some countries.

I'm sorry, but the US pays its dues by providing its military without
billing the UN imho.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\05\15@162542 by John A. Craft

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At 02:54 PM 5/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
>>their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
>>lack of interest from some countries.

The UN with it's damn black helicopters doesn't need or deserve my tax
dollars.

:)


Jc.

1998\05\15@194201 by Morgan Olsson
picon face
At 14:54 1998-05-15 -0400, you wrote:
>>Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
>>their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
>>lack of interest from some countries.
>
>I'm sorry, but the US pays its dues by providing its military without
>billing the UN imho.

I«m sorry for that too.
The idea of UN is to collect power AND *supervising* from lot of countries.
There will always be problem if only one country run along playing hero,
and forcing it his way.
On the other hand, UN is kind of backtied by bureocracy such as veto and
tend to be slow in process, but better organization and *funds* i believe
can make UN work as supposed to and will work better alone and strong
without UN - US "synchoronziation" problems.

I would also like an extention of US, or other global organization, to
handle environmental issues globally.  Such as environmental tax for fuel.
Like aeroplanes fuel is now not taxed, but they fly at high altitude and
combusting at high temperatures thus generating very much more nitrogen
oxides per fuel unit then by example cars.  But right now they fly cheap
internationally on untaxed fuel spewing out a very lot of shit.  

/Morgan


>Andy
>
>==================================================================
>Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
>==================================================================
>
>
/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  EraseMEmrtspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTiname.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\05\16@193637 by Andy Kunz

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>I would also like an extention of US, or other global organization, to

That was exactly what our Indian friend was complaining about.

Personally, I think we need to downsize our federal and international
systems and get back to local autonomy.

Andy

==================================================================
                    Andy Kunz - Montana Design
         Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
==================================================================

1998\05\17@024324 by Matthias Granberry

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       Morgan Olsson <mrtspamspam_OUTINAME.COM> writes:

> >The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
> >is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.
>
> Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
> their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
> lack of interest from some countries.
>

       The US, under Regan's advice, did not pay its dues for several years,
because the US was tired of paying 1/4 the total costs of a beurocratic
juggernaut.  The US is nearly complete in repaying back-dues now.  Apathy,
however, is currently and will always be a problem that plagues the UN.
--
Matthias Granberry
@spam@GonffKILLspamspamwindmillbbs.com
Caffeine, nicotine, and execution all serve as "normalizing agents".
  -- "Attention Deficit Disorder"

1998\05\18@002320 by Morgan Olsson

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At 21:52 1998-05-15 -0400, you wrote:
>>I would also like an extention of US, or other global organization, to

Sorry <blush> i meant "extension of UN"

>That was exactly what our Indian friend was complaining about.
>
>Personally, I think we need to downsize our federal and international
>systems and get back to local autonomy.

One country-level, and one all-world organization?
Skip everything between (EU, US, USSR, etc)
So there will be no superpower fights.

>Andy
>
>==================================================================
>                     Andy Kunz - Montana Design
>          Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
>==================================================================
>
>
/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  KILLspammrtKILLspamspaminame.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\05\18@002324 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
At 02:43 1998-05-17 -0500, you wrote:
>        Morgan Olsson <RemoveMEmrtTakeThisOuTspamINAME.COM> writes:
>
>> >The US has to do the job that the UN was supposed to do.  Now that the UN
>> >is dying, somebody must stand for Truth and Justice.
>>
>> Well, the UN is dying because some countries, especially US, do not pay
>> their shared costs (could not remember the right word now), and general
>> lack of interest from some countries.
>>
>
>        The US, under Regan's advice, did not pay its dues for several years,
>because the US was tired of paying 1/4 the total costs of a beurocratic
>juggernaut.  The US is nearly complete in repaying back-dues now.

Excuse me, have not noticed that.

> Apathy, however, is currently and will always be a problem that
>plagues the UN.

Well we have to either fix that problem or rebuild UN.
Single superpower may not act police for rest of the world!

/Morgan

>--
>Matthias Granberry
>spamBeGoneGonffspamBeGonespamwindmillbbs.com
>Caffeine, nicotine, and execution all serve as "normalizing agents".
>   -- "Attention Deficit Disorder"

/  Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \
\  TakeThisOuTmrtEraseMEspamspam_OUTiname.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331    /

1998\05\18@062628 by Andy Kunz

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>One country-level, and one all-world organization?
>Skip everything between (EU, US, USSR, etc)
>So there will be no superpower fights.

No, local and county and state levels, with very weak federal and no
international.

This also eliminates superpower fights, and returns government to the
PEOPLE where it belongs.

Andy

==================================================================
                    Andy Kunz - Montana Design
         Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!
==================================================================

1998\05\18@085304 by Frank A. Vorstenbosch

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> >One country-level, and one all-world organization?
> >Skip everything between (EU, US, USSR, etc)
> >So there will be no superpower fights.

Can you PLEASE take this useless discussion elsewhere!!!!

Frank
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank A. Vorstenbosch     <SPAM_ACCEPT="NONE">    Phone: 0181 - 636 3000
Electronics and Software Engineer                 Mobile: 0976 - 430 569
Eidos Technologies Ltd., Wimbledon, London        Email: RemoveMEfavspamTakeThisOuTeidos.co.uk

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